Quick question from a new player

vpy · April 2017

I am a beginner to ESO so if these questions sounds noobish bear with me.

1)

I am currently leveling a Stamina Templar and i am loving it.
I am really not sure why people hate this spec

Can someone tell me why ?

2)

I do not have the Imperial DLC upgrade.
Will i be able to level to 50 if I do not have this Imperial DLC ???

Ghettokid · April 2017

1) Reason why people propably dislike it, is poor resource management. So then also dps is bit lower. It is worst staminaclass endgame wise, but fun to play imo.

2) Yes you can level to 50 without it.

MAEK · April 2017

2) You don't need anything but the base game to get to max level. I'm not sure whether you're talking about imperial edition or imperial city, but you don't need any of them.

Houshiki · April 2017

1) What @Ghettokid said.

2) You can get to lvl 50, and even cp 600 without stepping foot in any DLC. It just means you won't be able to access the DLC content.

vpy · April 2017

Ghettokid wrote: »

1) Reason why people propably dislike it, is poor resource management. So then also dps is bit lower. It is worst staminaclass endgame wise, but fun to play imo.

At a high level I assume that damage in this game come from weapons (stam) and by abilities from the skill trees (magicka).

If I level a Magicka Templar almost all of my abilities will be using Magicka (as I will be using destro staff) then will that not lead to much more poor resource management issue ?

When compared to that will it not be better to have stam templar who uses 2h /dw/bow to expend stamina and magicka to heal (or some dps using solar flare etc) ?

Can someone explain ?

Danikat · April 2017

Can't comment on builds, but I can explain about the DLC.

Firstly there are two things you might be referring to:

The Imperial Edition Upgrade: This was originally a special edition of the game, the upgrade gives you the extra bits from that. It allows you to make an Imperial race character, gives you a free white horse (useable by all your characters), a mudcrab pet (also useable by all characters) and a Pledge of Mara which can only be used once to get an XP bonus when playing with a specific other person.

The Imperial City DLC: This gives you access to the city in the center of Cyrodiil, which is both a PvE and PvP zone. It has 2 new dungeons and there are some unique items and equipment sets which can only come from here.

You only need to buy either of them if you want the extra items/content. The same is true of all the DLC.

There are 2 'level caps' in ESO - the first is your actual level and that's remained at Level 50. The second is the Champion Point system, which you start working on after level 50. The number of champion points available has increased with new releases but it's a base game patch and you gain champion points simply from getting XP so you can reach the cap even if you don't own any of the DLC, you'll just have less things to do while you're working on it.

(You might occasionally see mentions of Veteran Levels, but that's an old system that was replaced by champion points several updates back.)

vpy · April 2017

Thanks Danikat.

Can you respond to post #5 ?

Tabbycat · April 2017

Don't forget you can also subscribe (ESO+) to gain access to all DLC.

Exceptions are Imperial Edition Upgrade and Morrowind. Both of which need to be purchased separately if you want the content from them. You don't have to buy them if you don't.

Magdalina · April 2017

vpy wrote: »

Ghettokid wrote: »

1) Reason why people propably dislike it, is poor resource management. So then also dps is bit lower. It is worst staminaclass endgame wise, but fun to play imo.

At a high level I assume that damage in this game come from weapons (stam) and by abilities from the skill trees (magicka).

If I level a Magicka Templar almost all of my abilities will be using Magicka (as I will be using destro staff) then will that not lead to much more poor resource management issue ?

When compared to that will it not be better to have stam templar who uses 2h /dw/bow to expend stamina and magicka to heal (or some dps using solar flare etc) ?

Can someone explain ?

Hybrid builds are not really viable now. Your stamina skills scale with your max stamina, wep damage, wep crit and physical penetration - which are the stats you want to stack to do good dmg with them. Your magicka skills scale with your max magicka, spell damage, spell crit and spell penetration - which you'll have at an alltime low as a stamina build basically(and vice versa). There's no soft caps or anything so it's a lot more efficient to stack everything into one and do good damage with either stamina or magicka rather than try to split between both and hit like a wet noodle with either.

You basically do not want to be using magicka abilities at all as a stamina build, unless for utility(cc,cleansing negative effects etc). Some of your class skills have stamina morphs to them(for example first Aedric spear skill can morph to Biting Jabs which is a stamina skill) and they're the ones you'll want to be using. For stamina heal, check out Vigor in Alliance War skilltree(you'll have to PvP to unlock it but it doesn't take that long now).

Tandor · April 2017

Bear in mind OP when reading about the viability of builds that it all depends on your playstyle. If you are non-competitive and just playing for fun then all and any builds are viable, especially if you are largely playing solo or with a friend. When people claim that such-and-such a build is not viable they are talking about competitive play, especially at "endgame".

Hybrid builds are useful to the non-competitive player because they enable you to rotate your skills so that, for example, you can fire off a couple of stamina attacks and then a couple of magicka attacks during which the stamina is refreshing. Mixing it all up can also be fun, but it won't provide the strongest specialist character for competitive players and may even in non-competitive group play lead to you being kicked from a group because you don't measure up to what they think you should be.

Again, if you don't want to PvP then you don't need to unless you are looking to achieve the perfect build.

It's your game, your account, and your time. Play the game the way you want to do so, don't be too easily bullied by theory-crafting posts and Youtube videos into playing the game the way someone else chooses to. Above all, have fun

!

lordhakai · April 2017

I love the stampler. As long a s you have repentence you will be good

Wrecking_Blow_Spam · April 2017

Magdalina wrote: »

vpy wrote: »

Ghettokid wrote: »

1) Reason why people propably dislike it, is poor resource management. So then also dps is bit lower. It is worst staminaclass endgame wise, but fun to play imo.

At a high level I assume that damage in this game come from weapons (stam) and by abilities from the skill trees (magicka).

If I level a Magicka Templar almost all of my abilities will be using Magicka (as I will be using destro staff) then will that not lead to much more poor resource management issue ?

When compared to that will it not be better to have stam templar who uses 2h /dw/bow to expend stamina and magicka to heal (or some dps using solar flare etc) ?

Can someone explain ?

Hybrid builds are not really viable now. Your stamina skills scale with your max stamina, wep damage, wep crit and physical penetration - which are the stats you want to stack to do good dmg with them. Your magicka skills scale with your max magicka, spell damage, spell crit and spell penetration - which you'll have at an alltime low as a stamina build basically(and vice versa). There's no soft caps or anything so it's a lot more efficient to stack everything into one and do good damage with either stamina or magicka rather than try to split between both and hit like a wet noodle with either.

You basically do not want to be using magicka abilities at all as a stamina build, unless for utility(cc,cleansing negative effects etc). Some of your class skills have stamina morphs to them(for example first Aedric spear skill can morph to Biting Jabs which is a stamina skill) and they're the ones you'll want to be using. For stamina heal, check out Vigor in Alliance War skilltree(you'll have to PvP to unlock it but it doesn't take that long now).

This explains it well.

You can hybrid perfectly well in solo play for quests etc. But in competitive play it's best to go one route.

If you feel the urge you can just create a magicka Templar.

Nord_Templar · April 2017

Try to listen less to the opinion of other players. All here are competitors. Everyone wants to become an Emperor. Listening to "useful" advice, you will only lose time and energy. Play as you like. Do the character the way it is comfortable to play. And if there are problems in some place - the Guild will help.

zaria · April 2017

Nord_Templar wrote: »

Try to listen less to the opinion of other players. All here are competitors. Everyone wants to become an Emperor. Listening to "useful" advice, you will only lose time and energy. Play as you like. Do the character the way it is comfortable to play. And if there are problems in some place - the Guild will help.

Note that you can change to an magic build later if you want.
This require you to learn the new skills.

And yes only listen to the fundamental tips like hybrid builds don't works very well.
You can also make your templar into an tank but think of this later,

hmsdragonfly · April 2017

Tandor wrote: »

Bear in mind OP when reading about the viability of builds that it all depends on your playstyle. If you are non-competitive and just playing for fun then all and any builds are viable, especially if you are largely playing solo or with a friend. When people claim that such-and-such a build is not viable they are talking about competitive play, especially at "endgame".

Hybrid builds are useful to the non-competitive player because they enable you to rotate your skills so that, for example, you can fire off a couple of stamina attacks and then a couple of magicka attacks during which the stamina is refreshing. Mixing it all up can also be fun, but it won't provide the strongest specialist character for competitive players and may even in non-competitive group play lead to you being kicked from a group because you don't measure up to what they think you should be.

Again, if you don't want to PvP then you don't need to unless you are looking to achieve the perfect build.

It's your game, your account, and your time. Play the game the way you want to do so, don't be too easily bullied by theory-crafting posts and Youtube videos into playing the game the way someone else chooses to. Above all, have fun !

As a person who loves hybrid I disagree

Since OP is a new player, I strongly advise against playing as a hybrid. If you want to play a Hybrid, you will need a crafted set of Pelinals, which is too expensive for a new player, also in order to create a viable hybrid build you will need a large amount of game knowledge and theorycrafting, which a new player doesn't have just yet.

Without Pelinals, hybrid builds are worthless (not "useful to the non-competitive player", just straight up worthless). It's not about competitive or min-maxing, it's just that your build will be terrible, well, you can do Open world solo questing i believe, you are not a dead-weight to anyone in open world solo questing, and get carried by your group in normal dungeons. If you step inside a vet dungeon with a pathetically terrible build, it means you are a selfish person and you don't care about the other 3 people in your group, you only care about yourself, about what you want (being carried as a dead-weight), you don't care if 3 other group members enjoy to spend 2 hours (all of their playing season) to carry a dead-weight through a vet-dungeon.

My hybrid DK runs vet dungeons because I know for a fact that I can pull 20k DPS single target in real world environment (with out a proper rotation, i mostly PvP), so while i am not super optimal, i'm nobody's dead-weight.

Play the game the way you want and have fun, but if you want to do group activities, fulfill your role.

ArchMikem · April 2017

Nord_Templar wrote: »

Try to listen less to the opinion of other players. All here are competitors. Everyone wants to become an Emperor.

Meh.

I was much happier when I got my Explorer title than I imagine ever getting Emperor, only to be deposed after a day cause I don't live my life in Cyrodiil.

starkerealm · April 2017

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

Without Pelinals, hybrid builds are worthless (not "useful to the non-competitive player", just straight up worthless).

I wouldn't go quite that far. But, I'm also thinking specifically of a few utility abilities that are worth slotting and using off spec (like cloak or mark target). At the same time, it's probably worth understanding that Pelinals won't automatically save a hybrid build. Real hybrid builds are very tricky to use.

The one major exception are tanks. They tend to get into some weird hybrid situations.

Tandor · April 2017

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

Bear in mind OP when reading about the viability of builds that it all depends on your playstyle. If you are non-competitive and just playing for fun then all and any builds are viable, especially if you are largely playing solo or with a friend. When people claim that such-and-such a build is not viable they are talking about competitive play, especially at "endgame".

Hybrid builds are useful to the non-competitive player because they enable you to rotate your skills so that, for example, you can fire off a couple of stamina attacks and then a couple of magicka attacks during which the stamina is refreshing. Mixing it all up can also be fun, but it won't provide the strongest specialist character for competitive players and may even in non-competitive group play lead to you being kicked from a group because you don't measure up to what they think you should be.

Again, if you don't want to PvP then you don't need to unless you are looking to achieve the perfect build.

It's your game, your account, and your time. Play the game the way you want to do so, don't be too easily bullied by theory-crafting posts and Youtube videos into playing the game the way someone else chooses to. Above all, have fun !

As a person who loves hybrid I disagree Since OP is a new player, I strongly advise against playing as a hybrid. If you want to play a Hybrid, you will need a crafted set of Pelinals, which is too expensive for a new player, also in order to create a viable hybrid build you will need a large amount of game knowledge and theorycrafting, which a new player doesn't have just yet.

Without Pelinals, hybrid builds are worthless (not "useful to the non-competitive player", just straight up worthless). It's not about competitive or min-maxing, it's just that your build will be terrible, well, you can do Open world solo questing i believe, you are not a dead-weight to anyone in open world solo questing, and get carried by your group in normal dungeons. If you step inside a vet dungeon with a pathetically terrible build, it means you are a selfish person and you don't care about the other 3 people in your group, you only care about yourself, about what you want (being carried as a dead-weight), you don't care if 3 other group members enjoy to spend 2 hours (all of their playing season) to carry a dead-weight through a vet-dungeon.

My hybrid DK runs vet dungeons because I know for a fact that I can pull 20k DPS single target in real world environment (with out a proper rotation, i mostly PvP), so while i am not super optimal, i'm nobody's dead-weight.

Play the game the way you want and have fun, but if you want to do group activities, fulfill your role.

All of which is pretty much what I said. It depends on your playstyle, hybrid builds are great fun especially if you solo or play with a friend, but will cause issues if you group, play competitively including at endgame, or otherwise look for a perfect build.

I also think it's important that a new player learns about the game by playing it rather than reading about it. As you rightly say, a new player doesn't have the knowledge or resources to play the competitive game optimally at the outset, so play to have fun and find out more about the game as you progress. You can always respec, re-roll, or roll another character if you find that you want to do things differently.

Magdalina · April 2017

Nord_Templar wrote: »

Try to listen less to the opinion of other players. All here are competitors. Everyone wants to become an Emperor. Listening to "useful" advice, you will only lose time and energy. Play as you like. Do the character the way it is comfortable to play. And if there are problems in some place - the Guild will help.

He can and should play as he likes but he might as well at least know what is and what is not effective;)

hmsdragonfly · April 2017

starkerealm wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

Without Pelinals, hybrid builds are worthless (not "useful to the non-competitive player", just straight up worthless).

I wouldn't go quite that far. But, I'm also thinking specifically of a few utility abilities that are worth slotting and using off spec (like cloak or mark target). At the same time, it's probably worth understanding that Pelinals won't automatically save a hybrid build. Real hybrid builds are very tricky to use.

The one major exception are tanks. They tend to get into some weird hybrid situations.

Yup except for tanks. My bad, should have pointed that out

In my opinion, if you are a stamblade using cloak, you are still a stamblade :P All stam classes use several mag-based abilities, but all the damage dealing abilities are stam based

KingYogi415 · April 2017

Make sure to always slot snipe and wrecking blow for max DPS.

Check out hybrids while you are at it. And make all your gear gold as quick as possible, well before you reach CP 160.

Cheers!

starkerealm · April 2017

KingYogi415 wrote: »

Make sure to always slot snipe and wrecking blow for max DPS.

Check out hybrids while you are at it. And make all your gear gold as quick as possible, well before you reach CP 160.

Cheers!

In case it's not apparent, @vpy this is all horrifically bad advice intended to troll you.

Upgrading gear to gold is prohibitively expensive. This isn't even something you hold out for until you hit level cap, it's something you shouldn't do until you're ready to lock a character's build in for awhile. A full set of gold gear (at any level) will set you back somewhere around 300k in materials. So, yeah, don't follow his advice at all.

starkerealm · April 2017

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

Without Pelinals, hybrid builds are worthless (not "useful to the non-competitive player", just straight up worthless).

I wouldn't go quite that far. But, I'm also thinking specifically of a few utility abilities that are worth slotting and using off spec (like cloak or mark target). At the same time, it's probably worth understanding that Pelinals won't automatically save a hybrid build. Real hybrid builds are very tricky to use.

The one major exception are tanks. They tend to get into some weird hybrid situations.

Yup except for tanks. My bad, should have pointed that out

In my opinion, if you are a stamblade using cloak, you are still a stamblade :P All stam classes use several mag-based abilities, but all the damage dealing abilities are stam based

Yeah, I've gotten slapped around before on hybrid comments only to have someone come back and go, "but tanks." So, no worries.

@vpy if you're wondering why it's different with tanks...

Dedicating to a single resource pool improves the associated abilities. So, if you have 32 points in Magicka you'll do considerably less damage with your magicka abilities than if you have 64. This also affects how much an ability will heal for, so this does affect healers.

But, tanks don't (usually) care how well their abilities are working, they're more concerned with having lots of resources to pull from. So, for them, it really doesn't matter if pierce is hitting for 20% less than it could if they were pure stamina, they're more interested in the armor buff (which, in that case, doesn't scale) and the taunt.

There are hybrid DPS and healer builds, but they're pretty advanced, and rely on some idiosyncratic build mechanics that aren't apparent in the beginning.