Why do I have to pay guild fees just to auction stuff off?

Buffler · April 2017

Its the guilds that are *** not the game.

On xbox eu the biggest trading guild conglomerate is leaguee of assassins 1, 2 and 3....all run by same person, all 3 are in Mournhold (which is busiest spot on server) and they never have or never will ask for fee's, run raffles etc....If people donate, great....if not, then they don't. Only requirement is you sell, if you don't, you get removed.

Sigtric · April 2017

faerigirl wrote: »

vamp_emily wrote: »

LilySix wrote: »

OK, so the guild members are the stockholders. Which means that the guild leader would be responsible to pay dividends to the members and only have retained earnings to keep the actual traders location (or upgrade it).

Right?

I'm not sure what your trying to say.

However, as a guild leader I try my best to bring like minded people together. Just for an example, my Friendly Dungeon Runners guild is one of the best guilds on PC for running group content. Want to know why? It is filled with friendly players that work together. In the beginning I sure didn't do pledges 10 times a day because I had some motive to rip people off.

My trading guild "Blackwaters Merchant" was created for the people of Blackwater Blade campaign. My goal was to bring players from all alliances together and have one location where we can buy and sell PvP rewards ( reducing rng ) and other items to gear our characters.

I understand there are some corrupted leaders out there, but we are not all like that. If for some reason I started charging a fee or having raffles for the trading guild it will not be to rip anyone off. The money would be used to hire a trader.

Also to answer your question, stockholders buy shares of a company but are not guaranteed dividends. Some stockholders win big, and some lose everything.

I was just busting peoples balls. I don't ever, well nearly ever, buy or sell anything in any MMO I have ever played so I don't have a dog in this fight so to speak.

I was in every closed and open beta and played after launch until we got the guild traders and this issue has been going on since then and the AH argument since CBT forums. I guess I'm just a glutton for punishment for even reading these same issues again and again.

The issue really isn't that the system in ESO is bad. It's not. It's actually a brilliant idea IMO (and I am by no means a 'fatcat, my highest ever bankroll being 500k-ish, and I also think it could use a lot of help to make it great, but that's for a different thread.)

The issue is that it is different, and it makes people have to put in a little effort to make it work for them. No more lazily listing things in an auction house and refreshing your crap listings every 30 days because your 6 common widgets didn't move.

With this system you have to sell things with value, and you have to contribute more than just listing things to stay afloat. People hate it because OMG IT's NOT LIKE WOW/WOWCLONENAMEHERE, and it's compounded by the fact that some features (which would probably work the same way if it was a global AH) are lacking in functionality (a robust search for example)

Violynne · April 2017

Erasure wrote: »

In summary, good trade kiosks cost time and money to keep. Contributing to that effort shouldn't be viewed negatively.

I was one who once held a negative viewpoint on this until a guildmaster told me it could cost millions of gold just to bid on a store, let alone keep it, given many are vying for the same popular spots.

It also helped me understand why people get upset when the price of goods drops below standard. Of course, there will always be a greed factor by some, but for the majority, they're not looking just to earn gold for themselves. They're looking to retain their means to the guild store, which has definitely helped me out at times.

Thankfully, I never took my angst out on anyone specific, but I do feel I owe an apology to those whose statements were misinterpreted by me. Communication is important, and the lack of context can really be a problem without all the details.

I also walked away with the notion this is an idiotic system. The limited spots + the continual gold bidding seems counter-intuitive of what should be a guild system. Are all MMOs like this? ESO is my first (and last), so I have no way to compare.

If the entire purpose of this system is to create a gold sink, something's wrong.

seaef · April 2017

colig wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

Part of me wishes they would stop and just finish a few systems that they didn't finish before launch.

They pretty much outsourced this work to players as a result of addons.

Haven't played many Bethesda games, have you?

Zen is just following in their footsteps.

Skyrim is *** until you mod it.

Fallout is *** until you mod it

Personally, I'd rather let the community come up with creative solutions for gameplay issues not addressed by the base game.

Jamini · April 2017

The only flaw with guild traders is that the functionality of Awesome Guild Store should be the stock interface.

Once you can properly search a particular guild trader for what you want, the system is far more friendly and usable.

A server-wide Auction House would break the game and enable botters and cheaters to dominate the economy completely.

jlboozer · April 2017

Because guild traders aren't free....it takes gold to make gold!!

I_killed_Vivec · April 2017

Sigtric wrote: »

faerigirl wrote: »

vamp_emily wrote: »

LilySix wrote: »

OK, so the guild members are the stockholders. Which means that the guild leader would be responsible to pay dividends to the members and only have retained earnings to keep the actual traders location (or upgrade it).

Right?

I'm not sure what your trying to say.

However, as a guild leader I try my best to bring like minded people together. Just for an example, my Friendly Dungeon Runners guild is one of the best guilds on PC for running group content. Want to know why? It is filled with friendly players that work together. In the beginning I sure didn't do pledges 10 times a day because I had some motive to rip people off.

My trading guild "Blackwaters Merchant" was created for the people of Blackwater Blade campaign. My goal was to bring players from all alliances together and have one location where we can buy and sell PvP rewards ( reducing rng ) and other items to gear our characters.

I understand there are some corrupted leaders out there, but we are not all like that. If for some reason I started charging a fee or having raffles for the trading guild it will not be to rip anyone off. The money would be used to hire a trader.

Also to answer your question, stockholders buy shares of a company but are not guaranteed dividends. Some stockholders win big, and some lose everything.

I was just busting peoples balls. I don't ever, well nearly ever, buy or sell anything in any MMO I have ever played so I don't have a dog in this fight so to speak.

I was in every closed and open beta and played after launch until we got the guild traders and this issue has been going on since then and the AH argument since CBT forums. I guess I'm just a glutton for punishment for even reading these same issues again and again.

The issue really isn't that the system in ESO is bad. It's not. It's actually a brilliant idea IMO (and I am by no means a 'fatcat, my highest ever bankroll being 500k-ish, and I also think it could use a lot of help to make it great, but that's for a different thread.)

The issue is that it is different, and it makes people have to put in a little effort to make it work for them. No more lazily listing things in an auction house and refreshing your crap listings every 30 days because your 6 common widgets didn't move.

With this system you have to sell things with value, and you have to contribute more than just listing things to stay afloat. People hate it because OMG IT's NOT LIKE WOW/WOWCLONENAMEHERE, and it's compounded by the fact that some features (which would probably work the same way if it was a global AH) are lacking in functionality (a robust search for example)

I agree. I find it hard to feel sympathy for people who don't like the system because it's not what they have come to expect from playing WoW...

"But it's not the same as every other MMO I've played!"

Well boo hoo. You'd have thought they'd be glad for something a bit different

QuebraRegra · April 2017

Katahdin wrote: »

QuebraRegra wrote: »

golfer.dub17_ESO wrote: »

Bit annoyed you have to join a guild just to sell stuff. Yes you can try to spam zone chat and try to list everything using a textbox with a character limit...but good luck with that.

Extremely frustrated that even after a couple of years guild stores lack a basic search function, making you dig through tons of items you don't care about to find what you want, and having to go from NPC to NPC to do this on top of that.

Unique is not the same as useful. A standard auction house would be preferable.

It's a broke ass system.

This isn't going away... this has to change.

Guild traders are not going away. It will never change Don Quixote

I will still don my Mambrino's helm and tilt at windmills and giants!

wenchmore420b14_ESO · April 2017

postlarval wrote: »

colig wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

Part of me wishes they would stop and just finish a few systems that they didn't finish before launch.

They pretty much outsourced this work to players as a result of addons.

Haven't played many Bethesda games, have you?

Zen is just following in their footsteps.

Skyrim is *** until you mod it.

Fallout is *** until you mod it

Personally, I'd rather let the community come up with creative solutions for gameplay issues not addressed by the base game.

Lol!... Played many TES Games?
Morrowind came with a "Construction Set" with the base game. It encouraged people to create mods and even gave them the tools to do so. Guess what!!!!
Those cool mods they created became a part of base game in "Oblivion". Then guess what? All those cool mods in Oblivion came to base game in Skyrim.
Personally I see that as a brilliant move. Let the actual players create new cool add ons for the game and then implement the good ones in the next game.
Also, in before someone else say's it.....Bethesda Studios, Zenimax Media and Zenimax Online Studios are all the same company.
The delv's for ZoS have mentioned many times they work with and contact Bethesda on areas of lore and such.
My 2 septims..
Huzzah!

Tandor · April 2017

EJRose83 wrote: »

Seriously, every guild with access to a guild vendor charges fees. I don't blame the players for this though, it's simply a design flaw on the dev's part - One that needs to be fixed IMO.

There is no valid reason I'm afraid, just a string of excuses to justify a highly restrictive and dysfunctional trading system. It's fine if you're high-level with loads of farmed high-value goods to sell and the means to pay a top guild for a decent spot, otherwise you're pretty much excluded from it.

The_Conquerer · April 2017

if anyone has played Runescape recently they have a Grand Exchange where you can virtually buy and sell any item in the game from just one spot. ZOS should implement something like this to where there is a vendor you can go to and check and search through every posts from all the guild traders or even just guilds that dont even have traders instead of having to travel to each guild trader.

Daraugh · April 2017

The current system is miserable. I don't play to auction off stuff, it's a side thing that's only moderately useful. I'm not going to farm mats just to sell them. It's an awful system for players that don't consider e-jobs to be fun.

PlagueSD · April 2017

Both trading guilds I'm in hold weekly "raffles" for 1k gold per entry. Prizes are donated from guild officers. This is what we use to fund our guild vendor. Prize values range from 1mil gold, motifs, recipies, and housing items.

To anyone complaining about paying a guild fee, find a new guild, or go get the gold. It's not that hard to farm 10k gold/day just from the justice system.

Artis · April 2017

golfer.dub17_ESO wrote: »

Bit annoyed you have to join a guild just to sell stuff. Yes you can try to spam zone chat and try to list everything using a textbox with a character limit...but good luck with that.

Bit annoyed you have to run dungeons and trials to get bis gear. Yes you can try to craft it and buy BOE items.. but good luck with that being as good.

No OP, if you want best gear - you need to work for it and meet requirements. If you want best sales - you need to meet requirements as well (join a guild in this case). That's just the rules of the game. If you don't want to -don't play this game and sell in /zone chat. Make your choice and deal with the consequences.

Beardimus wrote: »

I'm in 3 traders with no fees, two permantently have top spots. Just keep searching for the good ones. Also I generally donate 5k a week volentarily, as they give good revenue, also secures me Bank access and helps the guild.

System works well if you go with it. Zero need for Auction House just learn this game.

Don't listen to this advice and don't become a freeloader,OP. it's the analogue of that guy in a dungeon who uses bow's light attacks and no skills in a dungeon, that same guy you are annoyed by. You will be that same guy for your guild if you aren't contributing your share.

The idea is, if those guilds have top spots - SOMEONE IS PAYING for them. Sure, if you wanna be "that guy" go find a guild where others will pay for you. But don't be surprised that some guilds don't want such members and require everybody to pay something: that's fair towards other members.

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

On what servers is this an issue?

I play on PC NA. I'm in guilds with traders in Rawl'kha, Mournhold, Wayrest, etc. I never pay a guild fee. I almost never make donations, buy raffle tickets, etc. I just sell stuff through the guilds. I've never been hassled, except when I took business trips and got kicked out a bit quickly for inactivity. (And that was easily fixed when I returned.)

Those guilds raise their gold via raffles etc. So far it's enough that others are paying and you are not. If it changes - they will change the requirements or will leave the market. Enjoy being carried while you can. They have sales requirements to get some tax + they have a lot of contributing members just enough to cover the bid. But you just wait till a new guild reaches that level.

Vanthras79 · April 2017

Social Contract Theory

Tornaad · April 2017

EJRose83 wrote: »

Seriously, every guild with access to a guild vendor charges fees. I don't blame the players for this though, it's simply a design flaw on the dev's part - One that needs to be fixed IMO.

You could always sell your stuff at a regular shop ... there are no fees there.

MasterSpatula · April 2017

I'm on my third week in a row with all my guilds failing to get traders. When I heard what our losing bids were, I was simply appalled.

I've donate Ambrosia for every guild auction (and seriousy overbid on an item on the last one).

The people benefiting from the status quo will sneer down their noses at you for suggesting that maybe having to shell out millions of gold a week to be able to sell stuff at a place it will actually be seen is not such a great system.

In the real world, those who benefit from the status quo spend a lot of money to influence things so they keep their power and wealth. In ESO, there's no politicians to bribe. So why a system that benefits all isn't put in place is beyond me.

alexkdd99 · April 2017

craftycarper73 wrote: »

i like the way certain guilds put crappy messages in your guild notes, if you forgot to pay or haven't been on to pay, how do they know what goes on IRL, id love the last GM to make *** remarks to my face like he did via messaging over fake 5k in gold. little ***.

Lol don't make a commitment to the guild to pay if you can't honor it. It's really rather simple.

It's not up to them to figure out what's going on in your real life, but it is up to you to do what you said you would. If not you put up with whatever the consequences are.

Acting like an Internet tough guy is rather funny to see though, so carry on.

Tabbycat · April 2017

I think at this point the only way to get the whole system to change is to simply stop using it.

Unfortunately there really aren't any alternatives.

The guild trader system as it currently stands is a PITA. No one, except the players getting rich off it, likes it.

I'm not sure how ZOS could fix it without ditching the system altogether and going with something new.

I'm hopeful for improvements when Morrowind is released.

Ojustaboo · April 2017

stevesherpa wrote: »

My problem isnt with the guild trader system as much as it is with these exclusive trading guilds not allowing for anyone else to sell their goods. Take one of the "sauce" guilds in or Wal Mard - it would be beneficial for them to have MORE using a trader ad they get MORE gold. But they keep the rank and file out and nobody else can make gold in the big hubs.

Then, they use their position to bully other people (dare they critique the guild then they slam you into the ground and black list you).

Yep, only last week a guild was advertising for experienced traders only.

While I personally would prefer an AH, the trading system is very good if your lucky enough to be in a good one.

Where it falls down is simply if every person playing wanted to join one, there aren't enough trader positions to accommodate them all, and many pro traders will always be in multiple good position guilds whereas others will never find one to accommodate their casual selling.

I joined 2 traders a month ago, first time since beta I've done so. I have their chat disabled, not interested in socialising with them, I have my main guild for that (I like to be in one very social smallish guild rather than multiple ones)

Spent the past 4 weeks farming in crag, getting everything, alchemy, wood, any node I come across.

Most gold I've ever had was about £150k, when I joined these I had just 50k. Simply by selling what I've farmed in crag for less than anyone else, in 4 weeks my bank balance has gone from 50k to 3.6 million and that's after paying around 500k to max out bank and inv, and paying guild traders 10k a week.

I'm only doing this as I want to buy a manor.

Neither guild requires payment but both require minimum sales which I well exceed. But for my stuff to sell so quick and me make this much money in such a short time, well this week I already decided to pay them both double.

So you can make a lot of money selling and I haven't got a clue really on what I'm doing. But I don't care if another guild member buys all my stuff and relists it, that amount of money a month is more than enough for me. I list 60 items a night and usually by the following evening I only have about 10 items left.

Going to continue doing this until I have my manor and about 1 mil in the bank, then I will stop farming and go back to doing other stuff

I now know that anytime I need money, a lot of farming and joining a couple of guild stores, I will have it in no time at all.

I also appreciate the time it takes the guild masters to run these stores and get their bids in etc.

Ojustaboo · April 2017

Stupid tablet posted it twice

djdc1234 · April 2017

EJRose83 wrote: »

Seriously, every guild with access to a guild vendor charges fees. I don't blame the players for this though, it's simply a design flaw on the dev's part - One that needs to be fixed IMO.

If you can afford to buy a merchant it's about the only thing I'd suggest to help you out. Gold becomes super easy to get

kalimar44 · April 2017

I pay 6500 gp a week total for 2 guild traders, and I make well over 20,000 a week.

kalimar44 · April 2017

Tandor · April 2017

Ojustaboo wrote: »

<snip> in 4 weeks my bank balance has gone from 50k to 3.6 million and that's after paying around 500k to max out bank and inv, and paying guild traders 10k a week. <snip>

That extract in itself tells us both how crazy the present trading system is, and why those who defend it do so.

Orjix · April 2017

golfer.dub17_ESO wrote: »

Bit annoyed you have to join a guild just to sell stuff. Yes you can try to spam zone chat and try to list everything using a textbox with a character limit...but good luck with that.

Extremely frustrated that even after a couple of years guild stores lack a basic search function, making you dig through tons of items you don't care about to find what you want, and having to go from NPC to NPC to do this on top of that.

Unique is not the same as useful. A standard auction house would be preferable.

if your on PC just use AwesomeGuildStore

Orjix · April 2017

golfer.dub17_ESO wrote: »

Bit annoyed you have to join a guild just to sell stuff. Yes you can try to spam zone chat and try to list everything using a textbox with a character limit...but good luck with that.

Extremely frustrated that even after a couple of years guild stores lack a basic search function, making you dig through tons of items you don't care about to find what you want, and having to go from NPC to NPC to do this on top of that.

Unique is not the same as useful. A standard auction house would be preferable.

if your on PC just use AwesomeGuildStore

Ojustaboo · April 2017

Tandor wrote: »

Ojustaboo wrote: »

<snip> in 4 weeks my bank balance has gone from 50k to 3.6 million and that's after paying around 500k to max out bank and inv, and paying guild traders 10k a week. <snip>

That extract in itself tells us both how crazy the present trading system is, and why those who defend it do so.

True, but I have been farming at least 5hrs a day every day and was rank 1 out of 500 guild members one week, and in top 20 all other weeks, so most guild members aren't making those amounts. . Its been at least 140 hrs of work for me to get that.

But as I said at the beginning of my previous post, I would prefer an AH.

I'm not defending guild stores, I just shared my experience, and as I'm forced to use one, I don't mind donating when I'm making that sort of money. And now I know if I need money, its a fairly easy process.

Interestingly, one week one of the traders lost their spot, yet I still sold at nearly the same rate, even though over half the guild left the day we lost it. That to me confirms the biggest traders do buy up the cheaper items and relist at a higher price, as it was only the committed long term pro traders that stayed in the guild and bought my stuff, I didn't even realise we had lost our spot until Wednesday evening as my stuff still sold so well. Yet relisting is one of the things people against AH constantly bring up.

So guild stores can work very well if you join one in a good position, but personally I would still prefer a traditional auction house

Vahrokh · April 2017

SHADOW2KK wrote: »

golfer.dub17_ESO wrote: »

Bit annoyed you have to join a guild just to sell stuff. Yes you can try to spam zone chat and try to list everything using a textbox with a character limit...but good luck with that.

Extremely frustrated that even after a couple of years guild stores lack a basic search function, making you dig through tons of items you don't care about to find what you want, and having to go from NPC to NPC to do this on top of that.

Unique is not the same as useful. A standard auction house would be preferable.

Awesome Guild Store addon is your friend, lets you search for stuff, cos ZoS in their eternal quest to annoy as many people as possible still have not put a simple quality of life improvement like this since beta days on PC

Sadly, even installing the exact addons AGS tells to install, I still get massive walls of errors when I enable it.

Vahrokh · April 2017

Saucy_Jack wrote: »

Let's put this in another perspective. Let's imagine that 100% of your potential sales for the week total...I dunno, let's lowball it, 50K. Let's assume you're not a super powerseller; 50k potential sales in a week.

Spamming zone chat (which a lot of people have muted, btw) and dealing with the character limit, in addition to the fact that you can only actively sell items when you're online...let's say you only make 20% of your potential sales, or 10K gold.

In a guild trader that asks for a weekly fee of 5k, you not only have the benefit of being able to deal directly with guildies in guild chat, but when you list your items you have the advantage of a) visibility and b) being able to still sell items even when you're offline. As a result, you make, say, 80% of you potential sales, or 40k.

(In both instances I didn't say any one method would allow for 100% of potential sales because let's face it, sometimes things just don't sell.)

At any rate, moral of the story:
No guild trader: 0g in fees, 10k in sales = 10k profit.
Guild trader: 5k in fees, 40k in sales = 35k profit.

So why would anyone complain about 5k in fees when it results in much higher profit overall? That doesn't make a lick of sense.

I am in 4 trading guilds, each requiring minimum sales volume a week and with guild trader.

I have yet to see any improvement vs when I was in no guild trader guilds. Apparently I am meant to fill the guild trader with the same Julianos, Necropotence and an handful of other stuff. Else, little sales.