Werewolf Overhaul

FoulSnowpaw
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Werewolves need an overhaul.

Grounds:
99% of werewolves are DPS, simply because no one likes a tank that can't taunt, nor can block efficiently. Obviously cannot heal others.
Werewolves are big and easy to spot.
Regular player skills like the 2-H "momentum" skill gives 20% weapon damage. You can't use this while in werewolf form.

Proposition:
Werewolf Transformation: Duration increased from 30 seconds to 60 seconds. Increase stamina recovery by 20% while slotted.
Savage Strength(passive): Increase weapon damage from 9%/18% to 12%/25%.
Werewolf Hide(passive): Negate 5%/10% of incoming damage; this is a custom passive I'd strongly like to see.
Pounce(active): Increase the damage.
Lunge(active): Replace howl; brief charge and burst damage much like real wolves do. A custom active I'd like to see.

Justification:
Werewolf Transformation: It is simply too short, expensive, and unrewarding. It takes up an ultimate slot. It takes up your hot bar. It even may negate some of your skill line passives(i.e. 4% max health for each [x] ability slotted). The werewolf transformation costs 300 ultimate which is a hefty price. You have sacrificed your player buffs and actives to be a werewolf. So this Werewolf Transformation needs to be more powerful and impactful, and not merely to look cool. It needs to be "worth the time". And because werewolves are DPS focused, it's total DPS must over achieve the standard skill slot & ultimate, otherwise there is no boon to a werewolf.
Savage Strength: In order to make werewolves worth the time and ultimate slotting, this is necessary. The stamina costs of its skills are rather over the board. At the very least, let those skills deal viable impact. When you transform you lose opportunities to major brutality, major berserk, defense abilities, etc. Let this be a compensation for those losses. Because WW transformation time is limited, it is no harm to increase this value. It is merely filling for the multitudinous losses explained above.
Werewolf Hide: Werewolves are big fellas. Everyone notices them, therefore become the grand target of the ages. They tower over their comrades, only to die in their stead. It seems they are a mug on sight instead of fear on sight. It is noted that their weakness becomes too obvious. Vampires are all covered up and no one will ever know. Because WW transformation time is limited, this perk should be considered.
Pounce: This by definition is a surprise attack. I am 99% sure no one backs up to pounce again; in other words it is usually a "one time skill". I say therefore let this leave a mark; make it more impactful. And since the ability jumps into the midst of a raging battleground, it is crucial that some damage shield is provided as one of it's morphs and not some cheap 1 second duration to transformation.
Lunge(active): Howl is useless. It costs almost 4000 stamina and does 0 damage. It fears only "certain" mobs apparently. Replace it with a lunge attack; real wolves do this all the time. Lunge can be a brief charge then burst damage ability much like solar flare ability. Lunge and bite. Werewolves have big teeth. It is notable that it should be used. Possible morphs: snare or apply major fracture.
Compare these things to vampires whom have cloaked(hidden) weaknesses, mist form(75% damage reduction), un-death passive(negate up to 33% damage when under 50% health, super siphon(restore 20% max health), massive AOE(bat swarm).
Werewolf transformation is such a short period. It needs to have very good incentives!
Some people literally dodge/vanish from a transformed werewolf until it runs out, then begin attacking. That's very disappointing.

Message of Hope:
For me mostly. I hope the community and the awesome team consider my propositions. Although my voice can be too small, I trust there are those who share my vision. I trust these changes are considered, and should have some impact and application. I have done various tests of equips/perks/cps/classes. Werewolves are under classed and under powered. It is imperative action is made.
Thank You for Considering My Proposition,
Beokros
  • Mashille
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    That is long and I don't particularly care about werewolves so I'm not gonna comment on it but I'll leave this pointless statement instead.

    Edit: There's probably some insightful information in there too so have an 'Insightful'.
    Edited by Mashille on April 3, 2017 5:43PM
    House Baratheon: 'Ours Is The Fury'
  • Milvan
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    Well, I'll give you a 5/10 for the effort.

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    “Kings of the land and the sky we are; proud gryphons.” Stalker stands, the epitome of pride. Naked and muscular, his wings widen and his feet dig in as if he alone holds down the earth and supports the heavens, keeping the two ever separate.”
    Gryphons guild - @Milvan,
  • Mashille
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    Milvan wrote: »
    Well, I'll give you a 5/10 for the effort.

    hqdefault.jpg


    What are you talking about? He's clearly put a lot of effort into that.

    I left what I did because I wanted top bump the post to the top to support it but I don't really care about werewolves so I didn't leave an opinion.

    What you're doing is just being rude.
    Edited by Mashille on April 3, 2017 5:52PM
    House Baratheon: 'Ours Is The Fury'
  • Lord_Eomer
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    According to this,

    U need werewolf to kill other players in a one hit!

    Werewolf need overhaul but not make them OP
    Edited by Lord_Eomer on April 3, 2017 5:54PM
  • sarbonn
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    The initial post makes sense. I bought the werewolf skill last night and started playing with it, only to realize that it took nearly two fights to even cause it to activate, and then it was over quickly.

    It either needs to be something you activate and keep using, or it needs to seriously lessen the amount of ultimate you have to use in order to cast it.

    Right now, I'm on the verge of feeling really cheated because until I got it, I had no idea how the skill even worked. I was just looking forward to doing werewolf as what I thought was a class, not just a temporary ability.

    Sure, I could have read up on it, but what I'm discovering is that way too much information about the game is not IN game, or at least in an easily accessed area of the game. But wasn't really wanting to complain about that, rather than say that they should do a bit more with this ability than they are doing now.
    Clueless, but willing to learn.
  • kadar
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    Regular player skills like the 2-H "momentum" skill gives 20% weapon damage. You can't use this while in werewolf form.
    WWs get a morph that gives Major Brutality.
    vLunge(active): Howl is useless. It costs almost 4000 stamina and does 0 damage. It fears only "certain" mobs apparently. Replace it with a lunge attack; real wolves do this all the time. Lunge can be a brief charge then burst damage ability much like solar flare ability. Lunge and bite. Werewolves have big teeth. It is notable that it should be used. Possible morphs: snare or apply major fracture.
    From a PVP perspective this change would be a huge nerf. WW fear is amazing against players and buffs the damage from our single target spamable (forget it's name).
  • Ghettokid
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    Mashille wrote: »
    Milvan wrote: »
    Well, I'll give you a 5/10 for the effort.

    hqdefault.jpg


    What are you talking about? He's clearly put a lot of effort into that.

    I left what I did because I wanted top bump the post to the top to support it but I don't really care about werewolves so I didn't leave an opinion.

    What you're doing is just being rude.

    Ikr. OP has done some real research and that guy just came here to be such a smartass.

    I also like playing WW and OP had some good ideas there. Good job.


    Edited by Ghettokid on April 3, 2017 5:59PM
  • Avran_Sylt
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    Hmm, I certainly agree that the werewolf class is lackluster for other roles, and that the Ultimate is lackluster given the cost and short duration.

    Werewolf Hide: You already gain 9966 Armor and Spell Resistance while in werewolf form, which is almost and added 16% damage reduction, So I don't think this needs to be added. However, this is under the assumption that you keep your current armor and spell resistance, if it is not the case, then yes, the werewolf should gain some more DR or at least more health regen.

    Savage Strength: Keep the weapon damage, or change it. I've not played with the WW skill line much. But, I do think that this passive should also increase your max Health by 10%-20% while in werewolf form. You've just gained mass, you're tankier.

    Roar -> Ferocious Roar Morph : I suggest changing this so that tanking as a werewolf is a possibility, my thought is that this skill, instead of granting a bonus for killed feared enemies now taunts enemies near you in a radius. You're a giant *** gaping maw of rage, enemies should *** target you rather than the tiny healer near you.

    Lunge: I'm iffy about this, as there already is a pounce that synergizes well with Roar and pouncing on feared enemies. Instead, Keep Piercing Howl as it is, but have it and it's morphs apply Major Fracture to enemies as well.
    Edited by Avran_Sylt on April 3, 2017 6:01PM
  • DocFrost72
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    One odd thing. Did you want to pigeonhole more wolves to DPS by increasing damage? Just an observed conflict I perceived in your post.

    Secondly, the reason Werewolves are useless for tanking is that they do not have a taunt, as you correctly described. They have 10k more resistances (if memory serves me), and a crap ton of extra stamina with their base transformation. What I'd love to see is a patch to have the tormentor set work off of pounce. Do that, and werewolf tanking becomes VERY viable.
  • Alchemical
    Alchemical
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    Instead of complaining that a speedy hound designed to rip and tear isn't very good at tanking, why not suggest something like adding a werebear more suited to tanking? Hircine gave us specialized werebeasts, I want Zeni to take advantage of it already. Where's me other weres!?

    Werewolf is very underwhelming in PvE though. I built my 2nd nightblade to maximize ultimate gain, but even with a build strictly designed to get as much uptime possible out of WW form it feels like it never pays off. I just wish the form was a toggle instead of on a timer.
  • Avran_Sylt
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    Regular player skills like the 2-H "momentum" skill gives 20% weapon damage. You can't use this while in werewolf form.
    WWs get a morph that gives Major Brutality.
    vLunge(active): Howl is useless. It costs almost 4000 stamina and does 0 damage. It fears only "certain" mobs apparently. Replace it with a lunge attack; real wolves do this all the time. Lunge can be a brief charge then burst damage ability much like solar flare ability. Lunge and bite. Werewolves have big teeth. It is notable that it should be used. Possible morphs: snare or apply major fracture.
    From a PVP perspective this change would be a huge nerf. WW fear is amazing against players and buffs the damage from our single target spamable (forget it's name).

    Howl is not the same skill as Roar
  • cpuScientist
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    Mashille wrote: »
    Milvan wrote: »
    Well, I'll give you a 5/10 for the effort.

    hqdefault.jpg


    What are you talking about? He's clearly put a lot of effort into that.

    I left what I did because I wanted top bump the post to the top to support it but I don't really care about werewolves so I didn't leave an opinion.

    What you're doing is just being rude.

    You're a good person!
  • DocFrost72
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    Avran_Sylt wrote: »
    Regular player skills like the 2-H "momentum" skill gives 20% weapon damage. You can't use this while in werewolf form.
    WWs get a morph that gives Major Brutality.
    vLunge(active): Howl is useless. It costs almost 4000 stamina and does 0 damage. It fears only "certain" mobs apparently. Replace it with a lunge attack; real wolves do this all the time. Lunge can be a brief charge then burst damage ability much like solar flare ability. Lunge and bite. Werewolves have big teeth. It is notable that it should be used. Possible morphs: snare or apply major fracture.
    From a PVP perspective this change would be a huge nerf. WW fear is amazing against players and buffs the damage from our single target spamable (forget it's name).

    Howl is not the same skill as Roar

    One morph of howl makes feared tarets take 30% more damage. They likely aren't blocking if they're feared. Conventionally, that is a huge burst setup.
  • Avran_Sylt
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    @DocFrost72

    Interesting

    I don't have access to view the WW skills in game. but is that 30% damage bonus for the skill only? or a passive skill added. just curious.
  • SneaK
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    I think you mean Roar, no WWs want Howl to be replaced. That said, just like Avran said, give the Ferocious Roar morph a taunt mechanic. No one picks that morph anyway.

    Aside from that, the only thing WW needs is a better way to return stamina. The heavy attacks aren't good enough.



    "IMO"
    Aldmeri Dominion
    1 Nightblade - 1 Templar - 7 Hybrid Mutt Abominations
  • geonsocal
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    for the amount of skill points (22 i think) you have to sink into it - yeah, it could definitely use a boost...

    I use it on two "stamina" heavy armor characters now and when i do turn ww in PvP - it's a bit of a lonely feeling, I rarely see others doing the same - would love to battle other ww's out there...

    for myself, biggest issue is on breaking free of roots...although, I guess a lot of non ww have that issue also...

    best tool for the ww in my opinion: ferocious roar...

    I don't have much issue with staying in form, however - i would love to be a bit "tankier" and deal more damage...

    hircine's rage getting buffed to 20% increased damage would be great...

    increasing spell and physical resistances to 15k would be perfect...
    687474703a2f2f696d616765732e73696d706c7973796e646963617465642e636f6d2f77702d636f6e74656e742f75706c6f6164732f323031342f30372f6d616b652d69742d736f2d6361707461696e2e6a7067
    Edited by geonsocal on April 3, 2017 6:40PM
    PVP Campaigns Section: Playstation NA and EU (Gray Host) - This Must be the Place
  • DocFrost72
    DocFrost72
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    Avran_Sylt wrote: »
    @DocFrost72

    Interesting

    I don't have access to view the WW skills in game. but is that 30% damage bonus for the skill only? or a passive skill added. just curious.

    A morph of piercing howl, howl of agony. The tool tip states that the move (the howl) will do 30% more damage to feared targets. Since roar fears targets, it is a very powerful synergy that werewolves have! In PvEland, pre 1tam, I was hitting wrothgar bosses for 33-37k per hit, crit.
  • Koolio
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    Change fear to magic and heal to stamina
  • cpuScientist
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    I would love to see some werewolf buffs for sure. The time in the transformation I feel is too low. To much time is spent worrying about how much time you have left. The direwolves are extremely weak. They do provide cover and eat ultimates so meh. The heal costs magicka and is quite expensive.

    And you get no small passive buffs for being one. At least give us 5% health and Stam Regen for being a wolf, and bump it up to 15% if we have the ultimate equiped and then to 20% when in the form itself. A nice progression.

    Finally allow us to build ultimate while in werewolf form and possibly give us a 100-150 cost (while transformed) ultimate that we can use that does some burst of aoe damage and refunds some time in form... similar​ to the wardens bear ulti mechanic.

    One of the funnest ways to do a dungeon or even vMA is to do it in werewolf form. It is insanely fun, put on vicious ophidian go wolf pack and have a blast. Why not try and amplify that fun by making the transformation a little bit more than a gimmick.
  • cpuScientist
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    Koolio wrote: »
    Change fear to magic and heal to stamina

    This so much THIS!
  • FoulSnowpaw
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    It is a common misinformation that werewolves have "high armor boost". Consider protection runes(Templar), bound armor(mage), spiked armor(DK), siphon(NB) all taken away for the transformation duration. Most of the base player skill lines give a protection buff, so subtract that from the werewolf transformation. Example: Spiked armor gives about 5000 physical and spell resistance, therefore since your hot bar is replaced, the total compensation is only 5000 bonus armor.
    To add on to that, werewolves are absolutely stamina based. It is not surprising to find most werewolves clad in medium armor, which has minimal armor even if legendary enhanced. Because the WW abilities cost a lot of stamina, it is imperative that stats are based on stamina.
  • geonsocal
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    SneaK wrote: »
    I think you mean Roar, no WWs want Howl to be replaced. That said, just like Avran said, give the Ferocious Roar morph a taunt mechanic. No one picks that morph anyway.

    Aside from that, the only thing WW needs is a better way to return stamina. The heavy attacks aren't good enough.

    oh shoot @SneaK ...now ya got me nervous - what's wrong with ferocious roar???

    Edit: just read the tool tips a little more closely...i can see your point - i hardly ever group though, so, most my ability selections are a bit self serving...
    Edited by geonsocal on April 3, 2017 6:46PM
    PVP Campaigns Section: Playstation NA and EU (Gray Host) - This Must be the Place
  • DocFrost72
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    Koolio wrote: »
    Change fear to magic and heal to stamina

    This so much THIS!

    I would immediately return to my WW stamplar DPS build.
  • Chilly-McFreeze
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    Zarkeson wrote: »
    Compare these things to vampires whom have cloaked(hidden) weaknesses, mist form(75% damage reduction), un-death passive(negate up to 33% damage when under 50% health, super siphon(restore 20% max health), massive AOE(bat swarm).
    Werewolf transformation is such a short period. It needs to have very good incentives!
    Some people literally dodge/vanish from a transformed werewolf until it runs out, then begin attacking. That's very disappointing.
    Beokros


    Not going into your suggestiosn just want to mention that this is where you are wrong.

    1) First off it is pretty obvious if someone is a vampire (abilites, bufftracker, evil hunter). And the extra fire dmg is massive. Everyone and their mother deals fire damage in pve and pvp. Also mind that the FG abilites deal more dmg to them as well.

    2) Mist form has it's downside. No magicka regen, no ability usage, no sprint. You can't attack while you use this skill.

    3) Undeath doesn't grant you 33% mitigation under 50% health. It grants you UP TO 33% negation, beginning to rise at 50% health. So you need really low health to get the full mitigation.

    4) Also, Drain Essence doesn't restore 20% max health. It restores 20% of the missing health each second over 3 seconds. Mind the difference. Also, it's a channel and no burst heal. It can be interrupted and you can't do anything else while using this.

    5) My Batswarm has a tiny bit over half the tooltip dmg per sec of the destro ult + it only lasts 5 seconds.
  • DocFrost72
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    Zarkeson wrote: »
    It is a common misinformation that werewolves have "high armor boost". Consider protection runes(Templar), bound armor(mage), spiked armor(DK), siphon(NB) all taken away for the transformation duration. Most of the base player skill lines give a protection buff, so subtract that from the werewolf transformation. Example: Spiked armor gives about 5000 physical and spell resistance, therefore since your hot bar is replaced, the total compensation is only 5000 bonus armor.
    To add on to that, werewolves are absolutely stamina based. It is not surprising to find most werewolves clad in medium armor, which has minimal armor even if legendary enhanced. Because the WW abilities cost a lot of stamina, it is imperative that stats are based on stamina.

    Read another way: WWs constantly have major resolve and major ward without sacrificing resources or a set, plus another 5k resistances on top of it.

    Also, fun for the whole family: when I last tested it, proc sets work on werewolves. Swarm mother chaining adds on a werewolf tank, anyone? :grin:
  • Woopy
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    I wouldn't mind a werewolf overhaul. Especially with passives only being in werewolf form.. giving vamps quite an advantage not having a transformation.
    Heart of Ayanad [StamSorc]
    Soul of Ayanad [MagKnight]
    Aegis of Ayanad [MagPlar]
    Keeper of Ayanad [MagBlade]
    Shadow of Ayanad [MagSorc]
  • SneaK
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    geonsocal wrote: »
    SneaK wrote: »
    I think you mean Roar, no WWs want Howl to be replaced. That said, just like Avran said, give the Ferocious Roar morph a taunt mechanic. No one picks that morph anyway.

    Aside from that, the only thing WW needs is a better way to return stamina. The heavy attacks aren't good enough.

    oh shoot @SneaK ...now ya got me nervous - what's wrong with ferocious roar???

    Edit: just read the tool tips a little more closely...i can see your point - i hardly ever group though, so, most my ability selections are a bit self serving...

    Was always under the impression it boosted your own damage too, could be wrong. I guess the Ferocious morph could be good to take advantage of the exploiter cp passive.
    "IMO"
    Aldmeri Dominion
    1 Nightblade - 1 Templar - 7 Hybrid Mutt Abominations
  • geonsocal
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    here's the skill line link: http://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Werewolf+Skills

    here are the roar abilities:
    Roar with bloodlust to terrify up to 3 nearby enemies, afflicting them with fear and setting them off balance for 4.3 seconds.

    ferocious roar:
    Roar with bloodlust to terrify up to 3 nearby enemies, afflicting them with fear and setting them off balance for 4.3 seconds.
    If an affected enemy is killed, enemies nearby are disoriented and set off balance for 2.5 seconds.
    Killing feared targets leaves nearby allies off balance and disoriented.

    rousing roar:
    Roar with bloodlust to terrify up to 3 nearby enemies, afflicting them with fear and setting them off balance for 4.3 seconds.
    Grants Major Brutality to nearby allies, increasing Weapon Damage by 20% for 4 seconds.
    Increases Weapon Damage of nearby allies.
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  • Sovaso
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    Oh, this fantasies..
  • geonsocal
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    Sovaso wrote: »
    Oh, this fantasies..

    I know right - they took away the passive health regen for slotting ww...doesn't seem like zos has great love for our furry friends...

    more likely to get nerfed than buffed - still, gotta try to make a little noise...
    PVP Campaigns Section: Playstation NA and EU (Gray Host) - This Must be the Place
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