Discussion/Debate - Proposal for Oblivion Style Spell School System

Avran_Sylt · April 2017

Foreward: I am not too familiar with the lore of the elder scrolls universe, so I would greatly appreciate any comments that would help make this more lore friendly.

So, during the 2nd era, Vanus Galerion Founded the Mages guild, spreading the knowledge of the magical arts to the layman. Several Novices took interest of these arts during the time which the Vestige emerged. While the Vestige helps the mages guild in their quest line, they run across some of these novices, who ask the vestige for help with some experimentation. When the Vestige helps the novice, they gratefully share some of their knowledge of what they have been pursuing. This grants the Vestige access to one of the classifications of spells. These spells are not quite as powerful as a spell one would see from a person who spent years of their life practicing an art,nor as powerful as a spell cast with a staff to channel energy, but can be cast using any weapon setup.

Edit: discarded old version of the description

From what I know though, Lorewise, in the 2nd Era there were no schools of magick. However, I propose that this could be worked around by allowing scholars in the mages guild to have ‘Interests’ that they focus on. While Progressing through the mages guild, the Vestige would happen upon other guild members who ask for the Vestiges help in experimenting with something. In the Metagame, this ‘something’ will be what are later known as spells under a specific school of magick. These skills are separate from the Destruction and Restoration staff skill lines, and offer a way for the Vestige to obtain some effects known only to certain classes, or PvP content (I.E. Cloaking, Major Expedition, minor regens). These spells would be able to be used without a staff, and each respective ‘school’ would have passives (which only grant an effect with a respective skill slotted) available to unlock based on the skill level.

(Edit: still working on potential passives, Edit: each classification has two passives)

Spell 'Schools' consist of:

Alteration

Ultimate: Reduce the Costs of abilities for a short time

Morph 1:
Increase the Range and Size of abilities, but no longer reduces Cost

Morph 2:
Increases the Cost of abilities but also applies Empower on each ability

Skill 1: Player Shield

Morph 1:
Deals shock/Fire/Frost damage in a radius when the shield breaks

Morph 2:
Increases the damage absorbed by the shield at an increased cost.

Skill 2: Snares an enemy for a duration

Morph 1:
The snare duration is longer

Morph 2:
Now snare in an Area of effect

Skill 3: Major Expedition

Morph 1:
Increase the Duration at an Increased Cost

Morph 2:
Now also Increases Swim Speed

Skill 4: Minor Exhaustion (Increases stamina costs by 10%) applied to target

Morph 1:
Increases the stamina cost applied to the target, but reduces the duration

Morph 2:
Increases the duration but reduces the effect

Skill 5: Minor Disruption (Increases Magicka Costs by 10%) applied to target

Morph 1:
Increases the Magicka cost applied to the target, but reduces the duration
Morph 2:
Increases the duration but decreases the effect

Passive 1: reduces Stamina and Magicka costs with an Alteration ability slotted
Passive 2: increases the chance to force a lock by 5%-10% with an Alteration ability slotted

Conjuration

Ultimate: Summon a Sword and Board Xivilai whose attacks taunt targets

Morph 1:
Summon a dual wield Xivilai whose attacks apply minor vulnerability

Morph 2:
Summon a cauterizer who periodically casts healing spells

Skill 1: Summon Skeleton

Morph 1:
Summon venomous skeleton with reduced health that explodes when killed for [x] disease damage and applies the diseased status effect

Morph 2:
Summons a more powerful Bone colossus

Skill 2: Summon Zombie

Morph 1:
Summons a vengeful zombie with less health that leaves behind desecrated ground when killed that slows and damages enemies

Morph 2:
Summons two zombies that apply minor maim

Skill 3: Summon Ghost

Morph 1:
Summon a chilled ghost who periodically attacks with icy whirlwinds that damage and snare enemies

Morph 2:
Summon an ancient ghost that is more powerful (and Dunmer obviously)

Skill 4: Bound Weapon that gives minor brutality

Morph 1:
also gives minor savagery

Morph 2:
Increases light attack damage by 5%

Skill 5: Bound armor that gives minor Resolve and Ward

Morph 1:
Also applies minor Vitality while active

Morph 2:
Being attacked with melee attacks damages the attacker for [x] damage

Passive 1: Increase Max Health by 3% with a conjuration ability active
Passive 2: Increase Damage dealt to undead and Deadra by 5% with a Conjuration ability Slotted

Destruction

Ultimate: Deals [x] Cold Damage and snares for 2 seconds in an area, Then deals [x] Lightning Damage in an area, and then deals [x] Flame damage per second for 4 seconds in an area

Morph 1:
Enemies hit with the Cold damage have their stamina recovery reduced by 15% for 5 seconds, Lightning reduces Magicka regen by 15% for 5 seconds, Flame reduces Health recovery by 15% for 5 seconds.
Morph 2:
Becomes a Channeled Ability, Deals significantly more Lightning damage, and is centered on the player.

Skill 1: Engulfing Flames: Deals [x] Fire damage in a cone

Morph 1:
Deals Damage per second and can be held

Morph 2:
Reduces enemies health recovery by 15% for 5 seconds

Skill 2: Icy Blast: Ice spear that slows enemies

Morph 1:
Now Knocks enemies down
Morph 2:
Reduces enemies stamina recovery by 15% for 5 seconds

Skill 3: Lightning Surge: Deals [x] lightning damage in a radius

Morph 1:
Briefly Immobilizes enemies

Morph 2:
Reduces enemy magicka regen by 15% for 5 seconds

Skill 4 Elemental Weakness : Applies Major Breach for a medium duration

Morph 1:
Refreshes on hit

Morph 2:
Restores Magicka on hit

Skill 5 Corrode Armor : Applies Major Fracture for a medium duration

Morph 1:
Refreshes on hit

Morph 2:
Restores Health on hit

Passive 1: Increase the chance to apply status effects by 25%-50% with a Destruction skill slotted
Passive 2: With a Destruction spell slotted, dealing elemental damage applies minor breech to the enemy

Illusion

Ultimate: AoE Silence

Morph 1:
Now also Immobilizes effected enemies

Morph 2:
Increased Duration, Reduced Radius

Skill 1 Major Evasion

Morph 1:
Increased cost, Dodging grants Empower

Morph 2:
Increased Cost, Increases Duration

Skill 2 Rally: Increase hp regen by 15%

Morph 1:
Increases stamina regen by 15%

Morph 2:
Applies Minor berserk

Skill 3: Reveal: Reveals Stealthed enemies in a radius around you

Morph 1:
Increases Radius

Morph 2:
Increases Sneak Detection Radius

Skill 4 Chameleon : Reduced Detection range for a short duration

Morph 1:
Grants Minor Expedition

Morph 2:
Grants Major Evasion for 2 seconds after the effect ends

Skill 5 Paralyze : Stuns target for 2 seconds

Morph 1:
Stunned enemies take more damage

Morph 2:
Increases cost and significantly increases duration

Passive 1: Sell items for 5% more with an Illusion spell slotted
Passive 2: Gain Minor Evasion with an Illusion Spell Active

Mysticism

Ultimate:Clense : Remove all negative effects from you and prevent further applications for 6 seconds

Morph 1:
Can target One other person, but no longer prevents further applications

Morph 2:
Now removes only 2 negative effects but in a radius, and no longer prevents further applications.

Skill 1 Major Ward

Morph 1:
Also gain Major Resolve

Morph 2:
If damaged with magic while this skill is active, restore 60% of cost

Skill 2 Marks an enemy, enemy cannot enter stealth for a medium duration

Morph 1:
Also applies minor breach

Morph 2:
Reduces duration, but becomes an AoE

Skill 3 Reflect a Projectile in the next 6 seconds

Morph 1:
reflecting a projectile grants you empower

Morph 2:
Reduce duration to 2 seconds, but reflects 3 projectiles.

Skill 4 Reflect a melee attack in the next 6 seconds.

Morph 1:
If the attack is a heavy attack, the enemy is stunned

Morph 2:
Melee attacks dealt to you deal [x] physical damage to the attacker for the next 3 seconds

Skill 5 Can't think of a 5th one for mysticism. would love to add soul trap, but that's already in another category

Morph 1:

Morph 2:

Passive 1: Reduce Resurrection Time by 5%-10% with a Mysticism spell slotted
Passive 2: Reduce the duration of negative effects by 10% with a Mysticism skill active

Restoration

Ultimate: Self - Fortify Primary Stats

Morph 1:
Grants Minor Fortitude, Intellect, and Endurance for a medium duration

Morph 2:
Grants Minor Resolve and Minor Ward

Skill 1 Self DoT Heal

Morph 1:
grants Minor Endurance

Morph 2:
Grants Minor Intellect

Skill 2 Single Target Heal

Morph 1:
Heals you and Target for a reduced amount

Morph 2:
Now applies minor protection for a short duration

Skill 3 Drain Target Health

Morph 1:
Decrease Damage and Health Drained, but grants Major Endurance

Morph 2:
Decreases Damage and Health Drained, but grants Major Intellect

Skill 4 AoE Heal

Morph 1:
healing low health allies grants them Minor Fortitude

Morph 2:
healing allies grants them Minor Ward

Skill 5 Minor Mending + Minor Vitality for a medium duration

Morph 1:
Increases duration, but removes Minor Vitality bonus

Morph 2:
Grants Major Mending, but removes Minor Vitality

Passive 1: Increase Healing done by 4% with a Restoration Skill Slotted
Passive 2: Gain 4% increased Magicka, Stamina, and Health regen with a Restoration Skill active

Thoughts? Comments? Suggestions?

klowdy1 · April 2017

I was thinking there was room to add another mage, or whatever they want to call it, that takes advantage of alteration and illusion.

Avran_Sylt · April 2017

klowdy1 wrote: »

I was thinking there was room to add another mage, or whatever they want to call it, that takes advantage of alteration and illusion.

Yeah, that'd be cool. would love to see some more thematic classes. Honestly I'd take that sun shard ability and slot something like that into an alteration class skill line. It reduces damage, and can crush enemies with increased gravity.

notimetocare · April 2017

Very false lorewise. There have always been schools of magic as long as mages have been classifying their study.

All class magic would fall into a school of magic if it were to be classified.

As to your proposal, no. Awful skills and awful, pointless separation. The idea of those spells is something of what you would teach a novice. Basic, plain magic. Whereas current class magic is advanced magic that has traits outside of one single school of magic

menedhyn · April 2017

You might find this website useful, OP: UESP: Mages Guild

Emothic · April 2017

You are slightly incorrect with your Lore. The Schools of magic have been practiced since before the first era. However it wasn't untill the late first era to early second era that magical spells were give a writin classification. Meaning that people were casting flame spells for a very long time, untill a point were flames spells were given the classification of a form of Destruction Magic.

The Schools, art, classification of types of magic is already shown in ESO with the skill line of Destruction Staff and Restoration staff. So the classification of spells are already presented in this period of time. Even more so are the Schools of Alteration, Illusion, even Conjuring magic. These spells/skills take forum in the many skill lines of a character. And these skills/spells are already in their own classification in the lore of the game. It's just not presented in the games User Interface.

Avran_Sylt · April 2017

menedhyn wrote: »

You might find this website useful, OP: UESP: Mages Guild

Emothic wrote: »

You are slightly incorrect with your Lore. The Schools of magic have been practiced since before the first era. However it wasn't untill the late first era to early second era that magical spells were give a writin classification. Meaning that people were casting flame spells for a very long time, untill a point were flames spells were given the classification of a form of Destruction Magic.

The Schools, art, classification of types of magic is already shown in ESO with the skill line of Destruction Staff and Restoration staff. So the classification of spells are already presented in this period of time. Even more so are the Schools of Alteration, Illusion, even Conjuring magic. These spells/skills take forum in the many skill lines of a character. And these skills/spells are already in their own classification in the lore of the game. It's just not presented in the games User Interface.

That will help me quite a bit. gonna change some of the initial dialogue.

notimetocare wrote: »

Very false lorewise. There have always been schools of magic as long as mages have been classifying their study.

All class magic would fall into a school of magic if it were to be classified.

As to your proposal, no. Awful skills and awful, pointless separation. The idea of those spells is something of what you would teach a novice. Basic, plain magic. Whereas current class magic is advanced magic that has traits outside of one single school of magic

The separation there right now is just trying to mirror how the current weapon skills are separated, though now using the different classifications as the separator. Though any suggestion you may have on how to organize it would be appreciated.

You make a fair point with how these spells are considered novice magic. Though the reasoning behind this is so that what class you choose still can give an edge in some areas (years of practice) but the general effects can still be learned by any class (newbie).

Though it would be interesting to allow more powerful spells to be unlocked. perhaps via a different classification under each school. once you reach level 50 on the novice tree, you unlock apprentice, so on from jorneyman, advan

Avran_Sylt · April 2017

Added in two passives for each school.

Avran_Sylt · April 2017

Changed the invisibility one to Chameleon, reducing detection range.

IcyDeadPeople · April 2017

Oblivion's spellcrafting system was fun, but it was pretty broken. You could stack spells that increase your target's weakness to magic, then weakness to fire spell, then cast fire spell and it does something like 200,000 damage.

Number_51 · April 2017

IcyDeadPeople wrote: »

Oblivion's spellcrafting system was fun, but it was pretty broken. You could stack spells that increase your target's weakness to magic, then weakness to fire spell, then cast fire spell and it does something like 200,000 damage.

Oh how I miss my named dai-katana "Swordsong".

Soul Trap for 1 second
Drain Health 100 pts for 1 second
Absorb Health 3 pts for 1 second
Frost Damage 3 pts for 1 second
Fire Damage 3 pts for 1 second
Shock Damage 3 pts for 1 second
Weakness to Frost 100% for 1 second
Weakness to Fire 100% for 1 second
Weakness to Shock 100% for 1 second
Weakness to Magic 100% for 3 seconds

Had a spell that was roughly the same. Weakness to elements didn't stack, but weakness to magic at the end did stack and also cause other weakness effects to stack.

NewBlacksmurf · April 2017

The game would want to remove the healer, dps, tank designs and purely be a play for fun server based game.

Not sure they would redesign that much but lore wise you seem to be on the right track.

Design wise, some could happen but largely you'd run into these discussions about "balance" and PvP vs PVE