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Frost Staff NEEDS to change.
Blake6332
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For some reason I haven't seen a single thread about this. I tank vet dungeons every day, and sometimes my friends are not on to run the dungeons with. Almost 50% of the time there is a DD running FROST STAFF and taunting the boss and having absolutely no idea why they have aggro.
I don't think its a problem that they want a niche use for frost staff on a tank. That is fine. But don't put it into a passive, because half the players in this game do not READ what their passives do. I am tired of having to teach DDs in randoms that frost staff means they steal aggro.
The suggestion I can make here is that Force Shock (or some other skill) should be changed to function similarly to Pierce Armor when using a frost staff. Remove the passive taunt on heavy attack because 1) you can't drop block for that long as a main tank in a trial, 2) DD's want to run frost staves sometimes, even though it is a DPS loss. Making it a taunt loses diversity in some builds. 3) Solo players who try dungeons every once and a while queue for vet dungeons with a frost staff as DD and have no idea that it taunts because TAUNT DOES NOT MEAN ANYTHING IN SOLO PLAY.
I felt the need to rant about this and I'm sure many of you understand this. Frost staff needs to be changed!
I don't think its a problem that they want a niche use for frost staff on a tank. That is fine. But don't put it into a passive, because half the players in this game do not READ what their passives do. I am tired of having to teach DDs in randoms that frost staff means they steal aggro.
The suggestion I can make here is that Force Shock (or some other skill) should be changed to function similarly to Pierce Armor when using a frost staff. Remove the passive taunt on heavy attack because 1) you can't drop block for that long as a main tank in a trial, 2) DD's want to run frost staves sometimes, even though it is a DPS loss. Making it a taunt loses diversity in some builds. 3) Solo players who try dungeons every once and a while queue for vet dungeons with a frost staff as DD and have no idea that it taunts because TAUNT DOES NOT MEAN ANYTHING IN SOLO PLAY.
I felt the need to rant about this and I'm sure many of you understand this. Frost staff needs to be changed!
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datgladiatah✭✭✭It definitely should be put into frost clench since that's an instant elementally effected ability. Don't know why it's on heavy attacks. Absolutely illogical9 -
Mojmir✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭WalksonGraves wrote: »Literally no one dps's with a frost staff.
Not anymore,on purpose.0 -
Blake6332✭✭✭WalksonGraves wrote: »Literally no one dps's with a frost staff.
That is my point. Nobody who KNOWS ANYTHING about their skills and passives will DPS with a frost staff. I am talking about random people coming into vet dungeons under cp160 (another problem entirely) with a frost staff completely clueless as to what they are doing to their group. THAT is a problem, and I see it way too often.datgladiatah wrote: »It definitely should be put into frost clench since that's an instant elementally effected ability. Don't know why it's on heavy attacks. Absolutely illogical
Agree with this suggestion completely.Edited by Blake6332 on April 1, 2017 7:28PM3 -
Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭datgladiatah wrote: »It definitely should be put into frost clench since that's an instant elementally effected ability. Don't know why it's on heavy attacks. Absolutely illogical
That'd be OP, combine it with tremorscale, roots, dmg, spammable, dot, 50% to snare and dmg...
Yes please do it
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Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I tank vet dungeons every day, and sometimes my friends are not on to run the dungeons with. Almost 50% of the time there is a DD running FROST STAFF and taunting the boss and having absolutely no idea why they have aggro.
Why didn't you tell him?
The same thing happens to me when i have a s/s DD in my group who is using puncture in his rotation. I just explain to him whats happening, and that's it.5 -
Blake6332✭✭✭I tank vet dungeons every day, and sometimes my friends are not on to run the dungeons with. Almost 50% of the time there is a DD running FROST STAFF and taunting the boss and having absolutely no idea why they have aggro.
Why didn't you tell him?
The same thing happens to me when i have a s/s DD in my group who is using puncture in his rotation. I just explain to him whats happening, and that's it.
I do - I have every time I have encountered someone using it. Half the time the people either don't respond because they aren't used to groups, or don't care, and some didn't even speak English so the language barrier made that quite difficult. Thing is -the problem is that they aren't aware of these things before going into the dungeon, they have to be told about the issue, and many don't care to fix it.
Sword and board DPSers are FAR less common in my experience. I have only seen two since I started playing again a few months ago. But at least with that you can tell them "Hey, un-slot taunt" and move on. Even after telling people that ice staff taunts, they probably don't have another weapon to equip in it's place, and heavy attacking is important so they will continue to disrupt the group.1 -
Lynx7386✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I've been playing this game since pc launch and can count the number of people I've seen dps with a frost staff on one hand.
Inform them why it's happening and move on.PS4 / NA
M'asad - Khajiit Nightblade - Healer
Pakhet - Khajiit Dragonknight - Tank
Raksha - Khajiit Sorcerer - Stamina DPS
Bastet - Khajiit Templar - Healer
Leonin - Khajiit Warden - Tank4 -
Blake6332✭✭✭I've been playing this game since pc launch and can count the number of people I've seen dps with a frost staff on one hand.
Inform them why it's happening and move on.
I have also been playing since launch. I don't think you understand the reason for the topic. The issue is not that I am annoyed and I hate people that are clueless running frost staves. My point here is that an ability that affects the way a group performs in a dungeon should not be so easily mistakable that DPSers will use it on ACCIDENT . Every time I have gone into a dungeon and seen someone using an Ice Staff I do exactly what you suggest - inform them why it is happening, and move on. I don't throw a fit, I don't insult them, nothing like that. I may pass some humorous banter towards friends in discord about it for a good laugh, though that is where it stops.
If ZOS wants to make frost staves a viable option for tanking, it should not be made possible via a passive that many players do not read.Edited by Blake6332 on April 1, 2017 7:55PM1 -
Darkstorne✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Honestly, I think it's an issue with Staves as a whole. No other weapon type has this much variation in how they can work. Even their skills work differently depending on the type of stave being wielded, and as interesting as that is to core players it can get pretty daunting to more casual players who want to play as a typical mage and have been trained by similar games to equip the highest level weapon they find as loot that correlates to their class.
I bet they do read the passives. I bet they unlock that heavy attack passive when they have a fire or lightning stave equipped. And then I'll bet a blue or purple frost stave drops days or even weeks later and they compare the DPS but forget all about how much variation this will create in their playstyle. "Oooo! A new staff that does more damage than my current staff!"
Possible solution: "Magic" weapons get two new weapon types, each looking visually distinct, and each catering to a different playstyle. Quick example - Staves could be single target DPS, Tomes could be AOE and DoT DPS, and Gauntlets could be for tanking. That's obviously a lot of work, so I doubt it would ever happen, but it would definitely solve the issue. I also think this would open up a lot of other build options for the other classes, and it would be awesome to finally see some more weapon skill trees that scale off magicka.
Edited by Darkstorne on April 1, 2017 8:21PM3 -
Blake6332✭✭✭Darkstorne wrote: »Honestly, I think it's an issue with Staves as a whole. No other weapon type has this much variation in how they can work. Even their skills work differently depending on the type of stave being wielded, and as interesting as that is to core players it can get pretty daunting to more casual players who want to play as a typical mage and have been trained by similar games to equip the highest level weapon they find as loot that correlates to their class.
I bet they do read the passives. I bet they unlock that heavy attack passive when they have a fire or lightning stave equipped. And then I'll bet a blue or purple frost stave drops days or even weeks later and they compare the DPS but forget all about how much variation this will create in their playstyle. "Oooo! A new staff that does more damage than my current staff!"
Possible solution: "Magic" weapons get two new weapon types, each looking visually distinct, and each catering to a different playstyle. Quick example - Staves could be single target DPS, Tomes could be AOE and DoT DPS, and Gauntlets could be for tanking. That's obviously a lot of work, so I doubt it would ever happen, but it would definitely solve the issue.
This is an interesting idea. In the world of elder scrolls, I don't think the tome/gauntlet thing would work lore wise (maybe tomes, but gauntlets is long shot imo). Though yes, having different weapon types instead of bundling it all into destro staves would completely change the mag game and would be very interesting. This would even the playing field with weapon types too, giving 3 weapon types that are magicka based (there are 4 for stam based weapons, 3 dps types and 1 tank).
Overall interesting idea, but too long term an idea too fix the short term issue.Edited by Blake6332 on April 1, 2017 8:23PM0 -
Darkstorne✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Darkstorne wrote: »Honestly, I think it's an issue with Staves as a whole. No other weapon type has this much variation in how they can work. Even their skills work differently depending on the type of stave being wielded, and as interesting as that is to core players it can get pretty daunting to more casual players who want to play as a typical mage and have been trained by similar games to equip the highest level weapon they find as loot that correlates to their class.
I bet they do read the passives. I bet they unlock that heavy attack passive when they have a fire or lightning stave equipped. And then I'll bet a blue or purple frost stave drops days or even weeks later and they compare the DPS but forget all about how much variation this will create in their playstyle. "Oooo! A new staff that does more damage than my current staff!"
Possible solution: "Magic" weapons get two new weapon types, each looking visually distinct, and each catering to a different playstyle. Quick example - Staves could be single target DPS, Tomes could be AOE and DoT DPS, and Gauntlets could be for tanking. That's obviously a lot of work, so I doubt it would ever happen, but it would definitely solve the issue.
This is an interesting idea. In the world of elder scrolls, I don't think the tome/gauntlet thing would work lore wise (maybe tomes, but gauntlets is long shot imo). Though yes, having different weapon types instead of bundling it all into destro staves would completely change the mag game and would be very interesting. This would even the playing field with weapon types too, giving 3 weapon types that are magicka based (there are 4 for stam based weapons, 3 dps types and 1 tank).
Overall interesting idea, but too long term an idea too fix the short term issue.
No problems at all with the lore. Depends on the visual design (needs to be lower fantasy than the image example, for sure), but magic doesn't require a focus at all. Even mages using staffs are rare, since most just use their bare hands. If anything that makes the gauntlets more reliable, being bulky defence items that don't restrict their hand movements like weapons would
Definitely not a short term solution though, I agree with you there. But I'm definitely convinced that the root cause of this issue is the lack of other magic weapon types, with ZOS trying to make that one weapon type do all the things that 4 physical weapon types do. That's the core problem imo.1 -
Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Darkstorne wrote: »Honestly, I think it's an issue with Staves as a whole. No other weapon type has this much variation in how they can work. Even their skills work differently depending on the type of stave being wielded, and as interesting as that is to core players it can get pretty daunting to more casual players who want to play as a typical mage and have been trained by similar games to equip the highest level weapon they find as loot that correlates to their class.
I bet they do read the passives. I bet they unlock that heavy attack passive when they have a fire or lightning stave equipped. And then I'll bet a blue or purple frost stave drops days or even weeks later and they compare the DPS but forget all about how much variation this will create in their playstyle. "Oooo! A new staff that does more damage than my current staff!"
Possible solution: "Magic" weapons get two new weapon types, each looking visually distinct, and each catering to a different playstyle. Quick example - Staves could be single target DPS, Tomes could be AOE and DoT DPS, and Gauntlets could be for tanking. That's obviously a lot of work, so I doubt it would ever happen, but it would definitely solve the issue. I also think this would open up a lot of other build options for the other classes, and it would be awesome to finally see some more weapon skill trees that scale off magicka.
Is that Jace or something completely different?0 -
Rohamad_Ali✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Hahaha yeah I've seen that happen . Poor Mage screaming for his life "where's the tank?!" lol2 -
Magdalina✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭While I do think Zeni should've done something more than silently change the passive(not everyone reads the forums and VERY few people ever re read the passives once they unlock them), I really don't think there's much they(or anyone really) can do to counter people's inability to read(which really, I think at these point only people still using frost heavies as non-tanks are either new players(who haven't bothered to read the passive) or old players who haven't bothered to read what their groupmates say. Well, or just troll)
That said, it was a very, very troll change. If I tank though and after first 2-3 times I tell them not to use frost heavies they still do, I just let them have it lol. It's funny XD
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Volrion✭✭✭✭WalksonGraves wrote: »Literally no one dps's with a frost staff.
Unfortunately, I've ran with a few pugs who have.
Insta kick ftw
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Lightspeedflashb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭WalksonGraves wrote: »Literally no one dps's with a frost staff.
Unfortunately, I've ran with a few pugs who have.
Insta kick ftw
i have pugged a lot in this game and the onyl time i remember a dps using a frost staff is a back bared vma ice staff.0 -
Draxys✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭WalksonGraves wrote: »Literally no one dps's with a frost staff.
Do you do pick up groups at all? If not, you'd be surprised at the things some "dps" characters do.2013
rip decibel0 -
WalksonGraves✭✭✭✭✭
✭WalksonGraves wrote: »Literally no one dps's with a frost staff.
Do you do pick up groups at all? If not, you'd be surprised at the things some "dps" characters do.
Pugging since day one, even nubs see frost as low damage/low rate of fire trash. I've got more "I only use lightning staff light attacks" or "I'm a bow wizard" than anything else.0 -
DragonBound✭✭✭✭✭The issue is ice is a common dps ability in many fantasy rpgs and zos gave us frost capability but no dps or real decent cc for pve to make up for it with a taunt.Edited by DragonBound on April 2, 2017 7:34PM0
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Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭WalksonGraves wrote: »WalksonGraves wrote: »Literally no one dps's with a frost staff.
Do you do pick up groups at all? If not, you'd be surprised at the things some "dps" characters do.
Pugging since day one, even nubs see frost as low damage/low rate of fire trash. I've got more "I only use lightning staff light attacks" or "I'm a bow wizard" than anything else.
Bow Wizard, every skyrim character ever2 -
Trinity_Is_My_Name✭✭✭✭✭
✭WalksonGraves wrote: »Literally no one dps's with a frost staff.
This!
I have a Frost staff or two but never use them.0 -
Blake6332✭✭✭Trinity_Is_My_Name wrote: »WalksonGraves wrote: »Literally no one dps's with a frost staff.
This!
I have a Frost staff or two but never use them.
This post is not about competent people.0 -
S1ipperyJim✭✭✭✭✭It was a stupid idea to begin with, it's still stupid now. Frost staff taunt is ridiculous and should be removed0 -
clocksstoppe✭✭✭✭✭
✭Instant kick any dd with frost staff that grabs aggro, problem solved. There is more wrong with them than having the frost staff, I guarantee you.Edited by clocksstoppe on April 3, 2017 11:49AM1 -
strikeback1247✭✭✭✭✭
✭If you see any DD with a frost staff:
1. Tell them that they should equip another staff.
2. If they refuse to do so: instant kick.
3. ???
4. Profit.P.A.W.S. - Positively Against Wild Sasquatches - NO TO BIGFOOT!0 -
lucky_Sage✭✭✭✭✭how about they take away frost tanking its stupid should have just made a the winter embrace the DD mag dd tree and animal companion tree stam dd tree
now the way the game is there will never be frost mages cause spell crafting will never come even if it does cant use a frost staff.
I hate the frost staff changes
I do think the warden looks nice but I'm still disappointed that I still can play the way I wanted to since before launch. but I'ma play the warden anyways cuase nature magick is my 2nd favorite play styleDC PC NA
Magdk - main
Stamcro - alt
AD PS4 NA -retired (PC runs way better to play on console)
magdk
magblade
stamplar
magden
magsorc0 -
Lynx7386✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭lucky_Sage wrote: »how about they take away frost tanking its stupid should have just made a the winter embrace the DD mag dd tree and animal companion tree stam dd tree
now the way the game is there will never be frost mages cause spell crafting will never come even if it does cant use a frost staff.
I hate the frost staff changes
I do think the warden looks nice but I'm still disappointed that I still can play the way I wanted to since before launch. but I'ma play the warden anyways cuase nature magick is my 2nd favorite play style
There's no way to please everyone, someone is always going to want to run outside the box and complain if they aren't able to.
I like frost/ice magic in other games, but it's just not going to work here. Have to just work around it.PS4 / NA
M'asad - Khajiit Nightblade - Healer
Pakhet - Khajiit Dragonknight - Tank
Raksha - Khajiit Sorcerer - Stamina DPS
Bastet - Khajiit Templar - Healer
Leonin - Khajiit Warden - Tank0 -
SlowMetabolism✭✭✭All of the changes to staffs should be reverted so I can make use of my one and only VMA Sharpened lightning staff on my garbage sorcDay one Xbox player0 -
QuebraRegra✭✭✭✭✭
✭Frost was never DPS, why did they change it to draw aggro? It's a utility, more than an actual weapon IMHO.
Wouldn't lighting an enemy on fire get the most aggro?1