At the beginning, there were no mag or stam builds, just builds.
Stam was thought for defensive skills (hence running, blocking, dodge rolling, sprinting and break free use that pool), while magicka was for offensive.
Drakkdjinn wrote: »Thanks for the replies guys - keep 'em coming!At the beginning, there were no mag or stam builds, just builds.
Stam was thought for defensive skills (hence running, blocking, dodge rolling, sprinting and break free use that pool), while magicka was for offensive.
I wasn't here in the beginning, but that doesn't make any sense to me at all -- were the stamina snb, dual wield, bow, class skills and 2h trees all considered defensive trees back then? I'd guess not.
Drakkdjinn wrote: »Thanks for the replies guys - keep 'em coming!At the beginning, there were no mag or stam builds, just builds.
Stam was thought for defensive skills (hence running, blocking, dodge rolling, sprinting and break free use that pool), while magicka was for offensive.
I wasn't here in the beginning, but that doesn't make any sense to me at all -- were the stamina snb, dual wield, bow, class skills and 2h trees all considered defensive trees back then? I'd guess not.
Those skills were added later during development, thats hy there were not as consistent as class skills.
Drakkdjinn wrote: »Drakkdjinn wrote: »Thanks for the replies guys - keep 'em coming!At the beginning, there were no mag or stam builds, just builds.
Stam was thought for defensive skills (hence running, blocking, dodge rolling, sprinting and break free use that pool), while magicka was for offensive.
I wasn't here in the beginning, but that doesn't make any sense to me at all -- were the stamina snb, dual wield, bow, class skills and 2h trees all considered defensive trees back then? I'd guess not.
Those skills were added later during development, thats hy there were not as consistent as class skills.
So what you're saying is that stamina suffers because a version of the game's design that never saw the light of day lingers with the devs to the present to hinder the basic aspects of balance? I'm confused!
Drakkdjinn wrote: »2. Apart from a few magicka class abilities and the bow tree, the overwhelming majority of stamina abilities require players to position themselves properly and apply damage in melee range. Magicka users can apply DPS for most of their abilities by point-n-click from a long range, making sundry boss mechanics involving movement and positioning less punishing in terms of DPS for magicka users and ranged abilities.
Waffennacht wrote: »Also, as you asked about a difference in cost.
There is a massive difference in cost in stam vs magicka
In the DW you'll find abilities as cheap as 800 stam to around 3k
Bow is 1-3k
2H same
SnB same
Annulment cost is over 4k
Healing Ward 4k
Blessing 3k
Rally cheap Surge 3.5k
Destro "spammables" 3k+
There is a massive difference between cost to counter act, as you said, the absolute IMPORTANCE of stamina, that a build can completely forget about magicka while no build can completely forget about stamina.
So magicka HAS to manage two resources whike stamina need only manage one. I think the advantage goes to stamina.
Yep. That's the reason I can't recommend ESO to people looking for a great combat system. It has an fun foundation, which is why I'm still here (when my classes aren't killing me like they are this week), but it has so many flaws...
Yep. That's the reason I can't recommend ESO to people looking for a great combat system. It has an fun foundation, which is why I'm still here (when my classes aren't killing me like they are this week), but it has so many flaws...
I once made a post about some things like this, but it's more broad and as of yet incomplete. Classes have not given me much free time to work on it:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/303943/armchair-developer-eso-combat-analysis-and-commentary-v0-1#latest
Perhaps you'll find it interesting.
IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »
Dunno what you're talking about, the combat system in this game is amazing compared to other MMO's (hell even single player games). Just because there are balance issues on the whole stamina vs magicka thing, doesn't mean the combat system isn't great.
Waffennacht wrote: »Also, as you asked about a difference in cost.
There is a massive difference in cost in stam vs magicka
In the DW you'll find abilities as cheap as 800 stam to around 3k
Bow is 1-3k
2H same
SnB same
Annulment cost is over 4k
Healing Ward 4k
Blessing 3k
Rally cheap Surge 3.5k
Destro "spammables" 3k+
There is a massive difference between cost to counter act, as you said, the absolute IMPORTANCE of stamina, that a build can completely forget about magicka while no build can completely forget about stamina.
So magicka HAS to manage two resources whike stamina need only manage one. I think the advantage goes to stamina.
Drakkdjinn wrote: »Yep. That's the reason I can't recommend ESO to people looking for a great combat system. It has an fun foundation, which is why I'm still here (when my classes aren't killing me like they are this week), but it has so many flaws...
I once made a post about some things like this, but it's more broad and as of yet incomplete. Classes have not given me much free time to work on it:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/303943/armchair-developer-eso-combat-analysis-and-commentary-v0-1#latest
Perhaps you'll find it interesting.
Oh hai Namaleth!
Damn dude that's a great post; summarizes perfectly the conditions from PvE that carry to PvP and those that don't/apply to a lesser extent. Feel like I've been playing with these principles in mind/muscle memory but that's the first I've seen it laid out so cogently. Also makes the shortcomings of balancing PvE first/alongside PvP very clear after reading. Kudos!IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »
Dunno what you're talking about, the combat system in this game is amazing compared to other MMO's (hell even single player games). Just because there are balance issues on the whole stamina vs magicka thing, doesn't mean the combat system isn't great.
I think you're missing the point a bit Izaki - no doubt the melee skill ANIMATIONS in this game are superb and blow all other MMOs out of the water, but the wind goes completely out of this game's sails when players realize that they can only do fancy moves if properly positioned that hit like a wet noodle in PvE on stam when their magicka counterparts can hit like a truck from any applicable distance -- and neither resource even need worry about using the crosshairs to target things to apply damage like previous TES titles' ranged abilities. The current targeting system really only makes sense to me for stam characters who are doing slash and stab abilities; I miss skyrim style targeting for bows/magicka.
Damn, come to think of it, I'd play the *** of magicka classes if they actually had to aim their skills and lead their targets with crosshairs. That'd be some real skill and would justify the current lame/imbalanced DPS gap that exists atm between ranged Magicka/melee.
masterbroodub17_ESO wrote: »Drakkdjinn wrote: »Yep. That's the reason I can't recommend ESO to people looking for a great combat system. It has an fun foundation, which is why I'm still here (when my classes aren't killing me like they are this week), but it has so many flaws...
I once made a post about some things like this, but it's more broad and as of yet incomplete. Classes have not given me much free time to work on it:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/303943/armchair-developer-eso-combat-analysis-and-commentary-v0-1#latest
Perhaps you'll find it interesting.
Oh hai Namaleth!
Damn dude that's a great post; summarizes perfectly the conditions from PvE that carry to PvP and those that don't/apply to a lesser extent. Feel like I've been playing with these principles in mind/muscle memory but that's the first I've seen it laid out so cogently. Also makes the shortcomings of balancing PvE first/alongside PvP very clear after reading. Kudos!IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »
Dunno what you're talking about, the combat system in this game is amazing compared to other MMO's (hell even single player games). Just because there are balance issues on the whole stamina vs magicka thing, doesn't mean the combat system isn't great.
I think you're missing the point a bit Izaki - no doubt the melee skill ANIMATIONS in this game are superb and blow all other MMOs out of the water, but the wind goes completely out of this game's sails when players realize that they can only do fancy moves if properly positioned that hit like a wet noodle in PvE on stam when their magicka counterparts can hit like a truck from any applicable distance -- and neither resource even need worry about using the crosshairs to target things to apply damage like previous TES titles' ranged abilities. The current targeting system really only makes sense to me for stam characters who are doing slash and stab abilities; I miss skyrim style targeting for bows/magicka.
Damn, come to think of it, I'd play the *** of magicka classes if they actually had to aim their skills and lead their targets with crosshairs. That'd be some real skill and would justify the current lame/imbalanced DPS gap that exists atm between ranged Magicka/melee.
Ftfy
There basically is no ranged stamina that is worth mentioning.
That said, agree on all points. More utility, survivability, etc plus exceptional damage in magicka builds.
What's worse is ZoS seems to not give 2 ***. The evidence? Look at warden skill morphs....every one of their magicka morphs have additional effects. All of their stamina morphs? You get the privilege of using stamina.
Waffennacht wrote: »Also, as you asked about a difference in cost.
There is a massive difference in cost in stam vs magicka
In the DW you'll find abilities as cheap as 800 stam to around 3k
Bow is 1-3k
2H same
SnB same
Annulment cost is over 4k
Healing Ward 4k
Blessing 3k
Rally cheap Surge 3.5k
Destro "spammables" 3k+
There is a massive difference between cost to counter act, as you said, the absolute IMPORTANCE of stamina, that a build can completely forget about magicka while no build can completely forget about stamina.
So magicka HAS to manage two resources whike stamina need only manage one. I think the advantage goes to stamina.