Listen up Experienced Tanks

Giraffon · March 2017

When you queue up for a random dungeon don't drop as soon as you see a bunch of low level characters in your group. Take a moment to find out what the experience level of the group is. Last night I queued up for 40 minutes and then got Ruins of Maz. I actually really enjoy running that one and was excited to do it with my level 14 DPS. We had a level 22 DPS and a level 40 Healz. The 300CP tank dropped as soon as they saw the group.

In addition to being really inconsiderate, the act of dropping out was totally unnecessary. The group was experienced and had their builds right. We got up to the big turtle and got him down to half health a couple times with just the three of us. We'd been queued up for a tank the whole time but none were available so we just called it off.

What a wasted opportunity for all just because the tank wouldn't even give it a try. I main a tank and have taken several "non-vet" groups through this dungeon without any trouble.

Don't judge a book by it's cover!

Kneighbors · March 2017

Realise that there's nothing personal in it. Sometimes the guy has exactly 30 minutes left to play, a reasonable time to make a run on any dungeon with high dps group, but most probably not enough to make a dlc dungeon with low dps group.

Or another example is a dude who by coincidence gets his 3rd RoM dungeon in a row and can't take it anymore.

Many reasons for it, not always personal.

idk · March 2017

They probably dropped because it was RoM. Not because if the players levels.

IronCrystal · March 2017

Many reasons for people dropping:

1. If they know dps is going to be really low, especially in a dlc dungeon, it is often faster to simply drop group and requeue.
2. They could be grinding for gear and none of you are high enough level to contribute to that (I'll admit to doing it sometimes).
3. Who knows something else could have come up and he had to drop.

AhPook_Is_Here · March 2017

Giraffon wrote: »

When you queue up for a random dungeon don't drop as soon as you see a bunch of low level characters in your group. Take a moment to find out what the experience level of the group is. Last night I queued up for 40 minutes and then got Ruins of Maz. I actually really enjoy running that one and was excited to do it with my level 14 DPS. We had a level 22 DPS and a level 40 Healz. The 300CP tank dropped as soon as they saw the group.

In addition to being really inconsiderate, the act of dropping out was totally unnecessary. The group was experienced and had their builds right. We got up to the big turtle and got him down to half health a couple times with just the three of us. We'd been queued up for a tank the whole time but none were available so we just called it off.

What a wasted opportunity for all just because the tank wouldn't even give it a try. I main a tank and have taken several "non-vet" groups through this dungeon without any trouble.

Don't judge a book by it's cover!

Just going to point out, if you had a stand-by tank build for your character you could have just tanked it yourself and queued for another dps. What they did was inconsiderate, but it's their free-time and they are within their rights to allocate that time how they please regardless of a stranger's preferences.

EvilCroc · March 2017

Tanks are rare species. They should not waste their time on grouping with low levels.

Lynx7386 · March 2017

I did selenes Web on my tank the other day. My tank uses the dk shield build so I have 58k health and nobody ever dies, but I have very low damage.

I was, still doing more damage to selene than both of the dps combined. It took us 20 minutes to wear her down.

Sometimes people need to not queue up for a dungeon, especially a vet dungeon, if they know they can't pull their own weight. Nobody likes to have to carry everyone else.

Myyth · March 2017

Sorry but Ruins of Mazzutun is on my "Instant Quit Dungeon" list. As soon as I see the RoM loading screen, I quit group the instant I zone in.
I dont even check group levels. I dont care. This is one of the worst dungeons in the game. Never again will I tank it.

Rickter · March 2017

I think, if you queue up for random group - then you best be ready to accept what that RANDOM group is.

Kind of that "you made your bed now lay in it" type mentality.

just run the dungeon. give it a chance and if its truly hopeless, go from there but who knows you might meet some nice people that are appreciative you took the time

driosketch · March 2017

I agreed to tank for a guild mate and their queue group for their first time through Mazz, vet version. By Mighty C it was clear they lacked the DPS and the staying alive versus adds part to complete the dungeon. Still, I agreed to take most of them, and a new one, through the normal version just to see the whole thing.

I liked the dungeon the first time through, but I'll admit this time it was a chore to get through. While I was happy to help a guildie out, I can see the other side of not wanting to deal with that dungeon. Or just not having time for it.

Myyth · March 2017

driosketch wrote: »

I agreed to tank for a guild mate and their queue group for their first time through Mazz, vet version. By Mighty C it was clear they lacked the DPS and the staying alive versus adds part to complete the dungeon.

and this is why I quit RoM. The dungeon scaling is not sufficient and it is entirely possible to get a group that cannot complete the dungeon. I would say at least half of the RoM groups I have joined failed. They need to nerf this dungeon so that a full group of lvl 10's can do it or increase the level requirement. I do not want to spend hours in a dungeon to find out your group cant finish it and then get a 1000+G repair bill.

EvilCroc · March 2017

Rickter wrote: »

I think, if you queue up for random group - then you best be ready to accept what that RANDOM group is.

Kind of that "you made your bed now lay in it" type mentality.

just run the dungeon. give it a chance and if its truly hopeless, go from there but who knows you might meet some nice people that are appreciative you took the time

We queue for random dungeon, not random group.

amasuriel · March 2017

I don't do randoms at all generally, but I also have to say I find it hard to blame them, and it may not be about level.

Usually if I did a random normal, it was for some quick XP and jewelry, and I was happy to drag the group kicking and screaming through the dungeon if they were bad, since I can do about 10K DPS on my pug tank, which is slow but not impossible, and not need a healer.

You cannot drag people through mazzatun or CoS though, and WGT and ICP are almost as bad. There are too many mechanics. Best case is you spend 30 minutes furiously typing fight explanations and the people get it, and it takes 90 minutes but you succeed (which is in no way worth your time if you are just running for your jewels / xp). More common is you spend 45 minutes getting to a hard boss with mechanics that mean you cannot solo (or at least it's unreasonably hard) and decide whether to bail or not. Either way, not worth the time.

It's just too risky. The demographics of people doing normal dungeons vs vet just makes it not worth the time and chances of success, regardless of level. So most of the time I also just bail if a see DLC dungeons.

Asardes · March 2017

I've tried running some normal DLC dungeons with randoms at some point, form sheer boredom, but I got badly burned. Despite my explanations they were not paying attention and failing every mechanic so badly I had to quit. It was nothing personal but my time is limited and it was clearly being wasted there. Since they put motifs in there - I have farmed out both books and put many more pages for sale on guild stores - my friends actually ask me to run with them multiple times a day to farm them. With an experienced group veteran HM takes 25 minutes in VCOS and maybe 35 in VROM for a guaranteed drop that sells for 25-45K gold. I really see no point in running normal, or even veteran without hard mode at this point, or queuing for random dungeons for that matter. So I wonder why high CP people will be queuing for those since 100K XP is really nothing when the next CP is 300-600K or even 900K XP and simply running around dolmens and AoE-ing mobs will get you 100K XP in 20 minutes or less.

parkham · March 2017

I've been mainly tanking in dungeons and my approach is this:

- Run the dungeon no matter who joins
- Run the dungeon no matter what the dungeon is
- Don't queue up for the group finder if you don't have time
- Never quit the dungeon. Even if the people who can't play and won't learn quit after getting wiped 3 times on a boss.
- Find others to help finish when the babies quit OR when you are just forced to kick the won't learn can't play people (thankfully rare)
- NEVER QUIT

I used to get irritated, but just roll with it now, no matter what. Due to time, I only run one dungeon a day, more on weekends. It's all about consideration.

LadyLavina · March 2017

Giraffon wrote: »

When you queue up for a random dungeon don't drop as soon as you see a bunch of low level characters in your group. Take a moment to find out what the experience level of the group is. Last night I queued up for 40 minutes and then got Ruins of Maz. I actually really enjoy running that one and was excited to do it with my level 14 DPS. We had a level 22 DPS and a level 40 Healz. The 300CP tank dropped as soon as they saw the group.

In addition to being really inconsiderate, the act of dropping out was totally unnecessary. The group was experienced and had their builds right. We got up to the big turtle and got him down to half health a couple times with just the three of us. We'd been queued up for a tank the whole time but none were available so we just called it off.

What a wasted opportunity for all just because the tank wouldn't even give it a try. I main a tank and have taken several "non-vet" groups through this dungeon without any trouble.

Don't judge a book by it's cover!

I might be one of the few, but I do ask (when I'm on my tank) if the group has completed the dungeon before dipping if it's something more difficult, but people immediately dropping is totally understandable.

If the group isn't cutting it there usually isn't much a tank can do about it. Most experienced tanks have wasted countless hours in dungeons with really crappy groups. That's potions, soul gems, and repair costs wasted.

Spending hours in a dungeon or more specifically on the same boss is not fun. You get to a point where you just start eyeballing the group and casting judgement. (which is often correct once you've done it for a while)

parkham · March 2017

Agree, it's always good to ask about experience before running it. I always let the person with most experience run the group through - easier that way.

I remember we got wiped probably 5x running through White Gold the very first time - we were all very green to dungeons and our roles. We were a mixed bag of pre-50 characters. Levels 20 through 40's. We would get a little bit closer each time after we wiped.

The one guy who was the dungeon vet coached us as to what to do beforehand, and it was just a matter of mechanics with each go we had. 6th time, we did it. That's the way it should be. He or she was great for staying with us.

Giraffon · March 2017

EvilCroc wrote: »

Tanks are rare species. They should not waste their time on grouping with low levels.

We are indeed rare and our time is valuable. But if you queue up for a random normal dungeon you should be willing to give it a try or at least explain to the group why you aren't going to stay.

I did that with Cradle of Shadows recently. I got in there and saw the group was all lowbies. I asked them if anyone had been through before. Answers:

nope
first time
I've just returned to game since 2014

Based on this information I advised them that we would not be able to complete this dungeon. I told them it is one of the more difficult dungeons in the game and there are a lot of mechanics to learn in addition to the durability that would be required to survive some of the bosses. So with that I wished them luck and left.

If they had said they all knew the dungeon and had been through it before with other characters then I would have stayed and revisited the issue if we got wiped a couple times.

IronCrystal · March 2017

parkham wrote: »

Agree, it's always good to ask about experience before running it. I always let the person with most experience run the group through - easier that way.

Whenever I ask people if they've done a dungeon before, maybe one person speaks up saying theyve done it, and 90% of the time people who don't talk have never done it because people dont' want to admit they don't know what they are doing.

kylewwefan · March 2017

Sat in que forever. Finally pops and I get Vet RoM with a 130, 110, and maybe 400. Drop. Vet fungal...8 minutes on Vet with higher level toons. Lobbies can easily turn that into 30~40 minute run.

But not this past weekend. Group finder was broke.

Love that phrase don't judge book by cover. BUT, if book has *** all over the cover and *** all over the pages and *** is all you see, I'm gonna have to assume it's a book about ***.

t3hdubzy · March 2017

Ive queued for a dungeon and had my daughters wake up from their nap 30minutes after laying down.

Family takes priority.

Additionally ive been ported to a random and based on the group, dungeon, and level of sleepiness said screw it and turned the ps4 off after leaving group.

DocFrost72 · March 2017

As a stamina sorceror tank, let me assure you that a normal dungeon does not scare me at all. Recently found out implosion damage is based on health...

As others have said, sometimes it comes down to "RoM again?!" Or, "Shoot...would kinda suck if I had to leave at the last boss for work. I'll save them the trouble." If they type "lol" before leaving though, yeah they stink.

Giraffon · March 2017

IronCrystal wrote: »

parkham wrote: »

Agree, it's always good to ask about experience before running it. I always let the person with most experience run the group through - easier that way.

Whenever I ask people if they've done a dungeon before, maybe one person speaks up saying theyve done it, and 90% of the time people who don't talk have never done it because people dont' want to admit they don't know what they are doing.

Yep. I would agree with that assessment as well.

If I think the group is borderline in terms of our chances for success I'll give it a shot even if I have one player that isn't talking. Sometimes the quiet ones are fantastic players that I assume just don't speak English. It's always nice to get in there and start fighting and see that the quiet one is actually a walking death machine.

Erock25 · March 2017

Giraffon wrote: »

I actually really enjoy running that one and was excited to do it with my level 14 DPS. We had a level 22 DPS. The group was experienced and had their builds right.

What? You can't have your 'build right' by level 22 let alone level 14. You will be missing a ton of passives and other must have skills.

Lynx7386 · March 2017

Ive also been farming arx corinium lately and come across a ton of people who stand in the venom and keep attacking the snake boss every time it curls up. That boss recovers health when you do that. Nothing like turning a 30 second fight into a ten minute one while you struggle to get people to pay attention to mechanics and they keep insisting that their ultra leet deeps is so good they can ignore them.

IronCrystal · March 2017

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Ive also been farming arx corinium lately and come across a ton of people who stand in the venom and keep attacking the snake boss every time it curls up. That boss recovers health when you do that. Nothing like turning a 30 second fight into a ten minute one while you struggle to get people to pay attention to mechanics and they keep insisting that their ultra leet deeps is so good they can ignore them.

90% of the time I've found no one has "ultra leet dps." That is only found in guilds apparently. Most randos have no more than 15k dps.

vamp_emily · March 2017

Don't worry Tank Emily is coming out of retirement soon.

Browiseth · March 2017

you need to understand that that cp300 tank has probably had to deal with groups that look exactly like yours all night, and have heard the "we're experienced we promise" line a hundred times over followed by 2 hours of frustration

in short, i'm completely sympathetic of those who abandon groups with how many awful players there are in this game

Giraffon · March 2017

Erock25 wrote: »

Giraffon wrote: »

I actually really enjoy running that one and was excited to do it with my level 14 DPS. We had a level 22 DPS. The group was experienced and had their builds right.

What? You can't have your 'build right' by level 22 let alone level 14. You will be missing a ton of passives and other must have skills.

Well I can't speak for the others of that night, but for a level 14 DPS, I was doing pretty good. My single target sustained DPS is around 8.7K and health around 37K. I've got 600 CP behind the scenes and I know the dungeon. I was pulling my weight just fine.

EramTheLiar · March 2017

How random is this random dungeon thingy anyway? Is there a "hey I'm clueless so don't put me in groups that will *** off the tank and make him bail" setting? Because I'd totally be willing to toggle that on.

Royaji · March 2017

Giraffon wrote: »

As a follow up, I totally understand that other factors come into play besides the collective level of the group. I'm not hey were all waiting on the tank and now you just left them. They get to start waiting all over again.

Erock25 wrote: »

Giraffon wrote: »

I actually really enjoy running that one and was excited to do it with my level 14 DPS. We had a level 22 DPS. The group was experienced and had their builds right.

What? You can't have your 'build right' by level 22 let alone level 14. You will be missing a ton of passives and other must have skills.

Well I can't speak for the others of that night, but for a level 14 DPS, I was doing pretty good. My single target sustained DPS is around 8.7K and health around 37K. I've got 600 CP behind the scenes and I know the dungeon. I was pulling my weight just fine.

Please tell me you are trolling. If you are not, I won't even blame this guy for leaving. You would've never finished RoM like this.