CP Nerf?

LadyLavina · March 2017

ereboz wrote: »

I saw screen shots from pax east that are completely removing stamina and magicka reduction costs (warlord and magician) and adding reduce break free cost or something like this. This will cripple pve and boost PvP. They need to find a way to balance

really great bait ya have there.

In case it's not, it'll cripple a lot of people in both and your bias is hilarious

bg22 · March 2017

Paraflex wrote: »

ADarklore wrote: »

As I've noted in other threads on this subject, months ago Wrobel said that players should be using Cost Reduction enchants for sustain, instead, players are running all damage enchants and simply using armor/CP for reduction... this change will force those players to run CR enchants as he intended to happen months ago.

Grat change stacking damage with 3 dmg enchants while having unlimited sustain still is a problem. No one should be allowed to sustain for ever. Current CP allows this.

Exactly. It blows my mind that I consistently see "OMG this will completely ruin my build that revolves around never running out of magicka!"

Well nooooooo ***. That's the point.

DurzoBlint13 · March 2017

who said this nerf is due to PvP? Is there a link to that statement? Why do all of the PvEers think all nerfs come from PvP? No one even stops to consider that these nerfs could be due to the fact that PvEers are completing group content solo or burning through bosses much faster than ZOS wants. Or even the fact that half the PvEers are asking for increased difficulty and that there is no real challenges left.
The bottom line is that no one on these forums nerfed anything. It is ALL on ZOS

NeillMcAttack · March 2017

"Aaaand fighting out of the red corner, weighing in at around 160lbs, the self proclaimed champion of Tamriel, the Shehai shattering, Dro'Mathra destroying, master thief, it's P V Eeeeeeeeeeee!!!!!!"

'The crowd goes wild'

"Aaaand in the blue corner, weighing in at around 260Ibs with hands covered in Cheetos, known in most parts as the rage kid from rivenspire, the two time dueling champion, it's emperor P V Peeeeeeee!!!"

'Booo's from the crowd! This fella ain't too popular round these parts it seems.'

Grab your popcorn folks, this is gonna be a tense one.......

Quigster · March 2017

IwakuraLain42 wrote: »

I fear this will hit the non-elite part of the player base the hardest, players that already struggle with sustain and can barely reach 17k dps since the latest update.

This is spot-on the biggest issue with these changes. In my opinion, these proposed changes are not well thought out as to how they will impact the "average" player. I also believe the "average" player constitutes the majority of the player base. It appears ZOS has gotten to the point that they no longer care about the wishes of the community and instead move forward with changes desired by developers regardless of whether or not it will make the majority of the player base happy.

idk · March 2017

It's understandable that people are concerned about these changes. We like our sustain and current builds.

Zos is attempting to make a change concerning the power creep and regardless of how we think of this change we have no idea how it will play out.

Granted, some aspects of our builds will be changing and once the PTS is updated we can start testing out how much this affects us and how to adjust.

I expect we will figure it out and find something new to complain about in the forums.

O_LYKOS · March 2017

Someone's been crying again so everyone is effected by stupid nerfs. Like always.

alexkdd99 · March 2017

ADarklore wrote: »

As I've noted in other threads on this subject, months ago Wrobel said that players should be using Cost Reduction enchants for sustain, instead, players are running all damage enchants and simply using armor/CP for reduction... this change will force those players to run CR enchants as he intended to happen months ago.

You mean as he supposedly intended since the release of champion points how long ago? They often come in and say something was intended to be different as a reason to throw out massive nerfs.

It would be nice if they would come out and comment on this but I know that is to much to ask of them. You would think a subject that causes such reactions would warrant a comment from developers.

alexkdd99 · March 2017

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

MrBrandon wrote: »

Enemy-of-Coldharbour wrote: »

Why must PVE continue to suffer because of PVP?

I couldn't agree more. ZOS nerfs everything, because of PVP. They need to be separate.

How long are PvEers going to blame PvPers for non-PvP changes?

Alot of times things can directly be linked back to pvp as the reason for being nerfed. Go read through most of the dev comments in the patch notes since they introduced dev comments.

Attackopsn · March 2017

I'm not really sure if losing 16% cost reduction is going to make people put on cost reduction glyphs for their dps characters. I remember in SOTH we and other guilds on pc and Xbox were using Kena on vmol hm. That fight also used to be twice as long before people skipped lunar. I think this is going to hurt people more at the intermediate level than anything, but maybe I'm wrong, I guess we will just see what happens.

Cêltic421 · March 2017

What are they replacing warlord and and magician with? Anything new? I know someone mentioned break free.

Doctordarkspawn · March 2017

I like this game.

I loved running through the thieves guild story, the Orsinium story, the base game story, I just love this games story.

But when balance like this rears it's head it's extremely clear the balance team simply does not have the same tallent. The continuous shoehorning us into a build style, and then undermining our ability to do it, has grown tiresome.

I long accepted this game would never be what I dreamed, but even so. Even so, I wish it had lisened to us a thousand times before.

Ah well. Tamriel remains. And I have my memories.

Nelson_Rebel · March 2017

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

ADarklore wrote: »

As I've noted in other threads on this subject, months ago Wrobel said that players should be using Cost Reduction enchants for sustain, instead, players are running all damage enchants and simply using armor/CP for reduction... this change will force those players to run CR enchants as he intended to happen months ago.

The game is way too easy right now. There needs to be a reduction to DPS across the board, and this might achieve that.

Who TF says? You? Oh good lord you must speak for ESO's entire playbase even though less than 5% of Every player on every single platform
on every server combined have ever even completed a vet trial (Pulled from
the trophy achievements) So sorry sir what the hell was I thinking, you speak for everyone and just because you say the games too easy it MUST be so. Facts and real supporting information be damned right?

Quigster · March 2017

ADarklore wrote: »

Just because the game was sold as 'play as you want' doesn't mean playing as you want will be as effective as playing other ways. This is why hybrids suck, you can play a hybrid, but you will struggle with content that singular builds breeze through. But it is an option and creates a choice for players... just as the CR removal from CP will create.

Someone asked a few comments back that if ZOS wanted players to run CR glyphs why not remove damage glyphs, but this again goes back to making a meaningful choice... with the upcoming CR changes in CP, you will now have to make a choice between high damage or sustain. Right now there is very little reason to run CR glyphs because CP gives us such a boost to reduction... it is also why players can run mixed armor instead of relying on the cost reduction from running seven pieces.

This also coincides with the introduction of "Magickasteal" to several abilities... adding additional means of sustain for Magicka players.

I went back and re-read your post and I understand what you are trying to say. ZOS is forcing us to choose either high DPS with low sustain (probably best for short fights), or lower DPS with better resource generation (probably better for longer fights). So, carrying two sets of gear with different build intentions and quick swapping before the fight with some addon like Dressing Room.

However, I cannot help but see a slightly different side to this as well. That side is this: (ZOS developer speaking at some point in the past), "Hey, let's give the players a section in the Champion Tree that provides for resource cost reduction". Flash forward to now, (same developer), "Hey, look how much cost reduction they are getting through Champion Points, we better take that away from them". This type of approach to things in life has never set well with me. Maybe I am just too old or a little to cranky.

Khaos_Bane · March 2017

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

ADarklore wrote: »

As I've noted in other threads on this subject, months ago Wrobel said that players should be using Cost Reduction enchants for sustain, instead, players are running all damage enchants and simply using armor/CP for reduction... this change will force those players to run CR enchants as he intended to happen months ago.

The game is way too easy right now. There needs to be a reduction to DPS across the board, and this might achieve that.

Who TF says? You? Oh good lord you must speak for ESO's entire playbase even though less than 5% of Every player on every single platform
on every server combined have ever even completed a vet trial (Pulled from
the trophy achievements) So sorry sir what the hell was I thinking, you speak for everyone and just because you say the games too easy it MUST be so. Facts and real supporting information be damned right?

Keep in mind that most of these people have the most elite gear and run with the same type of people in a group. That makes it very easy. I PUG in 4 mans mostly and it can be a struggle sometimes. When I run with my top guildmates we breeze through all but the most difficult dungeons. This isn't the typical player though.

Nelson_Rebel · March 2017

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

ADarklore wrote: »

As I've noted in other threads on this subject, months ago Wrobel said that players should be using Cost Reduction enchants for sustain, instead, players are running all damage enchants and simply using armor/CP for reduction... this change will force those players to run CR enchants as he intended to happen months ago.

The game is way too easy right now. There needs to be a reduction to DPS across the board, and this might achieve that.

Who TF says? You? Oh good lord you must speak for ESO's entire playbase even though less than 5% of Every player on every single platform
on every server combined have ever even completed a vet trial (Pulled from
the trophy achievements) So sorry sir what the hell was I thinking, you speak for everyone and just because you say the games too easy it MUST be so. Facts and real supporting information be damned right?

Keep in mind that most of these people have the most elite gear and run with the same type of people in a group. That makes it very easy. I PUG in 4 mans mostly and it can be a struggle sometimes. When I run with my top guildmates we breeze through all but the most difficult dungeons. This isn't the typical player though.

Again facts and supporting information be damned right?

You have absolutely no veracity to back up those claims. As far what the "typical player" is or who actually has BiS, or who they run with.

I pulled straight statistics and they support
my statement the game is not too easy. If you want to get into the real nitty grity less than 1% of players on PS4 have vet trial achievements and the real percentage on total players from all three platforms is closer to about 3.8-4.2 percent of completions for a SINGLE vet trial out the few odd and 1 million active players that ZoS has reported

Raeph · March 2017

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

ADarklore wrote: »

As I've noted in other threads on this subject, months ago Wrobel said that players should be using Cost Reduction enchants for sustain, instead, players are running all damage enchants and simply using armor/CP for reduction... this change will force those players to run CR enchants as he intended to happen months ago.

The game is way too easy right now. There needs to be a reduction to DPS across the board, and this might achieve that.

Who TF says? You? Oh good lord you must speak for ESO's entire playbase even though less than 5% of Every player on every single platform
on every server combined have ever even completed a vet trial (Pulled from
the trophy achievements) So sorry sir what the hell was I thinking, you speak for everyone and just because you say the games too easy it MUST be so. Facts and real supporting information be damned right?

Keep in mind that most of these people have the most elite gear and run with the same type of people in a group. That makes it very easy. I PUG in 4 mans mostly and it can be a struggle sometimes. When I run with my top guildmates we breeze through all but the most difficult dungeons. This isn't the typical player though.

Again facts and supporting information be damned right?

You have absolutely no veracity to back up those claims. As far what the "typical player" is or who actually has BiS, or who they run with.

I pulled straight statistics and they support
my statement the game is not too easy. If you want to get into the real nitty grity less than 1% of players on PS4 have vet trial achievements and the real percentage on total players from all three platforms is closer to about 3.8-4.2 percent of completions for a SINGLE vet trial out the few odd and 1 million active players that ZoS has reported

This is great. The guy you quoted basically supported your point, and yet you tear into him.

Nelson_Rebel · March 2017

Raeph wrote: »

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

ADarklore wrote: »

As I've noted in other threads on this subject, months ago Wrobel said that players should be using Cost Reduction enchants for sustain, instead, players are running all damage enchants and simply using armor/CP for reduction... this change will force those players to run CR enchants as he intended to happen months ago.

The game is way too easy right now. There needs to be a reduction to DPS across the board, and this might achieve that.

Who TF says? You? Oh good lord you must speak for ESO's entire playbase even though less than 5% of Every player on every single platform
on every server combined have ever even completed a vet trial (Pulled from
the trophy achievements) So sorry sir what the hell was I thinking, you speak for everyone and just because you say the games too easy it MUST be so. Facts and real supporting information be damned right?

Keep in mind that most of these people have the most elite gear and run with the same type of people in a group. That makes it very easy. I PUG in 4 mans mostly and it can be a struggle sometimes. When I run with my top guildmates we breeze through all but the most difficult dungeons. This isn't the typical player though.

Again facts and supporting information be damned right?

You have absolutely no veracity to back up those claims. As far what the "typical player" is or who actually has BiS, or who they run with.

I pulled straight statistics and they support
my statement the game is not too easy. If you want to get into the real nitty grity less than 1% of players on PS4 have vet trial achievements and the real percentage on total players from all three platforms is closer to about 3.8-4.2 percent of completions for a SINGLE vet trial out the few odd and 1 million active players that ZoS has reported

This is great. The guy you quoted basically supported your point, and yet you tear into him.

The way I read it He wasn't supporting my point, he's saying the games too easy with his own group.

How is that supporting me?

RajinPVP · March 2017

This really hurts pve more and for pvp .. i guess the one who chose to be tanky maybe can only sustain their tankyness less than forever so no big deal for me i guess...

Kamatsu · March 2017

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

The way I read it He wasn't supporting my point, he's saying the games too easy with his own group.

How is that supporting me?

He's supporting you because he showed the difference between playing with the 'few' good players and the common players. When he plays with the good ppl in his guild, the content is easy vs when they play with the common player the content is hard.

He was reflecting on the fact that MLGPro and virtually everyone else that cries that the game is 'too easy' find it easy because they only ever do group content with other players who are as skilled as them, and never with the common masses. Thus they find the game easy... because they, and those they play with, are all skilled players who know how to optimize their builds, gear sets, how to work together to maximize their damage and resource regeneration.

It's what I call - associative bias. This is where your viewpoint is biased based on who you play with, and everyone will generally try and associate with like-minded folk. So ppl like MLGPro will associate with other hard-content lovers and min/max'ers & such... and find the game dead easy. And because they never associate with the 'lesser rabble'... they never really see that side of the coin.

Also note, he stated the the top players in his guild that make the game easy are 'not the typical player' - thus supporting your assertion that ppl like MLGPro & such are the minority, and that they don't speak for the masses when they say the games 'way too easy'.

mr_wazzabi · March 2017

Paraflex wrote: »

ADarklore wrote: »

As I've noted in other threads on this subject, months ago Wrobel said that players should be using Cost Reduction enchants for sustain, instead, players are running all damage enchants and simply using armor/CP for reduction... this change will force those players to run CR enchants as he intended to happen months ago.

Grat change stacking damage with 3 dmg enchants while having unlimited sustain still is a problem. No one should be allowed to sustain for ever. Current CP allows this.

No it doesn't. Try a dps test as a magdk with no elemental drain or templar giving you shards. Even with current cp, you'll run out of resources before half the dummy's life.

Maybe you run a magblade with siphoning attacks or use lich, but if you have bsw and moondancer, good luck.

Are you bored of the game? Are you in a top tier trial guild that speedruns trials? Do you break top 10 vma without really trying? Do you 1vx in pvp consistently? If you didn't answer yes to any of these then you have no reason to be pro-nerf.

If you did answer yes, then you're not at all thinking about everyone else and only care about YOUR "challenging" experience. There are those of us that have 600cp and consistently run out of resources.

What about players that don't play a bis race? Are they now forced to buy a race change token to be redguard or altmer?

DHale · March 2017

Several patches ago regen was nerfed and cost reduction was decreased... AND spell costs were increased by about 10.8 percent across the board. You can never kick a field goal if you move the goal posts. Did those changes help the game... no. Please name a nerf that has made this game more enjoyable.

Mitoice · March 2017

No... the issue with magplar DPS is that you have only 2 good dps abilities... bitting jabs and jesus beam... thats it.... your build has to be centered around those 2 abilities and even then you wont out DPS a Mag or stam sorc.

This is due to all the senseless nerfs like the removal of the spear shard CC.

Expect more senseless templar nerfs on morrowind.

Raeph · March 2017

If the issue is with top tier content being too easy for the elite, then why not have modifiers applied only to that content to increase the challenge? I.E. rather than remove sustain across the board, simply have a debuff that increases the cost of abilities by 15%?

Seems you can more easily balance the content to the players with fewer unintended consequences to other areas of the game.

Asardes · March 2017

Mitoice wrote: »

No... the issue with magplar DPS is that you have only 2 good dps abilities... bitting jabs and jesus beam... thats it.... your build has to be centered around those 2 abilities and even then you wont out DPS a Mag or stam sorc.

This is due to all the senseless nerfs like the removal of the spear shard CC.

Expect more senseless templar nerfs on morrowind.

Well, splitting resources and using both pools is a solution. Pelinal BiS