Serious? Double XP again? No, ZOS! Too many double XP events! You will ruin the game!

Royaji · March 2017

Magdalina wrote: »

@Royaji, with all due respect...have you tried pugging a vet dungeon? I didn't pull these out of.....nowhere. I pulled those from dozens of people, cp 100, 200, 300, 600(!!) who had NO IDEA about these things and were amazed to no end when they learnt about them. This info needs to be in game and it needs to be more obvious - while this(and anything else really) won't solve the issue for some people it'd greatly help others. I'd just like to see less people alternating bow attacks with jesus beam while standing in red in my pug runs.

Royaji wrote: »

Check the tooltips for maximum magicka, spell damage and spell critical.

Max magicka - "determines how effective your spells are"...okay, but what IS effective? Do they do moar dmg/heals? Maybe crit more often? Have bigger crits?
Spell dmg - "affects how much dmg/healing your magicka based skills/weapons do". Good one. Agreed.
Spell crit - "gives your magicka based weapons and skill a chance to do critical damage". Damage. So...my heals do not crit, right? Oh wait...
I was also talking more about it being mentioned along the skills rather than in char menu too. Which, you are right, I'd generally think it's common sense/char sheet info already but it's not, there're so many people alternating between stamina and magicka skills and doing like 4k dps total it hurts. It needs to be explained more clearly somehow.

All skills state if they are single target, AoE or ground AoE. Once again check the tooltips. And if the game has to tell you that area of effect skill is more useful when you are fighting several enemies, there is an issue with you. Common Sense.

Not common enough. Every second dd in a pug ALWAYS uses aoes on bosses and single target skills on trash packs. I've also had to explain it to mutiple newbies why an aoe is beneficient despite its single target being lower. Not everyone has played mmos before and it can be confusing to people.

Magdalina wrote: »

"This is an execute. This means the damage of this ability only becomes significant after a certain % of enemy's health, which is when it's most beneficial to use it to finish off the enemy."

Check the tooltips. All the infromation you ask for is right there.

I don't ask for any information but I do strongly believe people need to be further informed of jesus beam being a bad fight opener. Because again, 2/3 pugs will use executes at start of the fight, especially jesus beam. Although yes. That's probably wishful thinking here, they'd likely skip over that bit of instruction too. But an extra clarification couldn't hurt still imo.

You already know what I'm going to say. Check the tooltips. Toggle skills have toggle written on it. But I'll give you the double slotting trick.

I've seen people be confused over this. So yes it's possible

Maybe it's my previous MMO experience but it's kinda obvious to me that two buffs with same name never stack. So common sense but I'll agree that this one is a little tricky.

I've never played MMOs before. I read forums here though so I saw ZOS mention that change, but not everyone does, and tbh I'm not sure I'd guess it right otherwise. I've seen like...SO many people get confused over this, to the point of farming a set for days/weeks, only to find out its buff doesn't stack with one they already use.

Maybe you want to check the tooltip for pierce armor or inner fire? "... and taunting/forcing them to attack you for 15 seconds" is the words you are looking for.

Maybe it's because I never played MMOs before(again), or maybe because English isn't my first language but tbh when I just started playing I remember clearly being confused over word "taunt". I mean, I know what word "taunt" means in English, but what can "taunting" mean towards a monster in a game?.. Fortunately I didn't feel like using these skills anyway but if I did, I'd end up being a real potato in my first dungeon runs Again, something I've seen new players get confused over quite a bit. "Oooo so THAT's why boss attacks me?! Damn I didn't realize that's what it meant sorry..."

Check tooltips. And hard and soft caps are not something the devs have to tell you.

The number probably isn't but it'd be nice to know there IS a hardcap at all. Because there're no caps on anything else now, and your armor rating doesn't go red or anything if you are over the hardcap now, you're simply wasting stats into getting more "protection" when in fact you aren't getting any, and the only way to find that out is do rather extensive testing or ask someone who knows.
For comparison, when we did have softcaps, the stat would go orange if you went over it so you actually knew it. Now it's just confusing with armor/spell resistance.

Edit: So much "nice" editing going on here, oh my

@Magdalina , oh, I do PUG dungeons quite a bit. More than that, I do it as a tank.

I'm sorry but I think we put different meaning into the word "tutorial". For me it's something that is necesarry to play the game. How controls and basic systems work, stuff like that. You are asking for tutorial to explain how to "GIT GUD".

Hybrid builds are not that viable in vet dungeones but it doesn't mean it has to be stated in tutorial. You can complete all overworld and normal dungeons with one skill on your bar. Even if it's just Jesus Beam.

Some AoE's have to be used on bosses because most of them are simultaneously DoTs. Stuff like endless hail, wall of elements, liquid lightning and so on. And for some classes there is no good aoe spammable available so they are forced to drop aoe dots and single target trash mobs. So I do not see it as an issue. I do understand I've twisted your words a bit but it's once again falling into the category of tutorial being the basic stuff and not "GIT GUD" territory.

I'll just take the rest of your points as one common issue.

The only way to make all players informed about this stuff is to force everyone to read and retype every tooltip in character window once you start the game and every skill's descrption once you unlock it. But this is not a way to go, right? Some players just do not want to read and it can't be fixed through in-game means. Heck, even other means can't fix humanity.

This game is an MMO. So interacting with other players is a major source of experience and information. It is not possible to explain every little thing in tutorials since half of the time people don't even read them. Half of the tricks we use now were not intended game designs. They were found by other players and were made popular by community. If we want newer players to use them we have to explain them. There is no way the devs can do it for us.

P.S.: and btw, maximum magicka tooltip even states that your spell damage is affected by it. So once again, people do not want to read.

Edit: typos and because we have to keep nice edits going.

Stopnaggin · March 2017

Magdalina wrote: »

Stopnaggin wrote: »

EldritchPenguin wrote: »

Stopnaggin wrote: »

Magdalina wrote: »

Royaji wrote: »

Stopnaggin wrote: »

alexkdd99 wrote: »

Magdalina wrote: »

It's not really an issue and my lvl 8 EU toon is greatly looking forward to this
As for why it's not an issue, 600 cp is simply a matter of time spent playing the game, not skill. Yes, if you spend a lot of the time on the game, you are more likely to gain at least some knowledge about how it works, but that's about it. There're so many activities in the game that you can complete by just spamming light attacks(basically anything except for vet dungeons, trials and some WB), all of which give you full experience now with one Tamriel, there's near zero direct correlation between time and skill.

Not to mention grinding which is already a thing and honestly...if someone wants to grind their toon asap, let them, the sooner they discover game doesn't consist of mindless aoe spam and maybe actually learn something, the better.

What this game needs is a learning curve to go along with that leveling, not moar mindless grinding.

There is a reason that we are seeing more and more max cp players who are clueless on how to play the game.

I know I will take this time to grind up 2 of my friends, which will only be contributing to the problem to an extent. Except I will be taking the time to explain builds and what skills work best. Eso itself does very poorly in explaining much at all.

Agreed, it's the people that teach the game. No proper tutorial for classes and skills. Kudos for helping them, that will do more than any xp gains the get.

How about you start reading instead of complaining? Every skill in the game has a pretty extensive description. Just hover your mouse over it. What kind of tutorial do you want to see? Press "button" to use the skill?

"This is a magicka skill, it scales with your max magicka/spell damage/spell crit/spell penetration."
"This is a magicka heal, it also scales with your max magicka/spell dmg/spell crit. (There is a stamina heal in Alliance War skilltree if you're looking for one)"
"This is a shield/ward, it only scales with your max magicka(or health, for some shields). A shield cannot be critically hit, but has no resistances of its own and damage taken by it is not affected by block."
"This is an aoe skill, which means it hits all the enemies in the area, which generally makes it superior to single target skills in situations where multiple enemies are present."
"This is an execute. This means the damage of this ability only becomes significant after a certain % of enemy's health, which is when it's most beneficial to use it to finish off the enemy."
"This skill is a toggle. That means that in order to profit from it, you have to slot it on your bar and use it, after which it will stay there until you use it again(or change zones). If you only slot a toggle on one bar it will disappear when you swap bars."
"This skill provides you with Major Prophecy buff. Keep in mind that 2 Major buffs of the same kind cannot stack, but 1 Major and 1 Minor can."
"This is a taunt, it means it will make the monster you hit with it attack you and only you. If several people taunt the monster more than 3 times in 10 seconds the monster will become overtaunted and ignore subsequent taunts for a while."
"This is an ultimate ability, it scales with whichever of your resource pools/damage/crit is highest."
"This is your physical resistance. It helps you mitigate physical attacks' damage, and hardcaps at 50% which is ~33k."
"This is your spell resistance. It helps you mitigate spells' damage, and hardcaps at 50% which is ~33k also."
"This is your spell damage, it increases the damage/healing of the spells you use. You can increase it by using a potion or certain skills granting Major/Minor Sorcery buff, using set bonuses, jewel enchants or upgrading your weapon to higher quality."

Would you like me to go on? And that's just (some of) actual skills/char stats, I'm not even touching on such things as (dungeon) roles, basic mechanics such as dodge/interrupt etc or, gods forbid, rotations.

Yes please continue, as if I'm the one who doesn't know the mechanics. So you expect someone who has just stated playing to understand what all that combined means, yes? So if it is all that easy what's the difference between an xp boost or not? Why would extra xp even matter? But please continue to show us all how amazing you are. And for making my point about the elitism in this game, I bet your a joy on dates?

I think you're missing the point. That wasn't about "I don't think you understand this, so I'm going to tell you," it was about "here are some vital game mechanics that are important to know that the game does not tell you." It could've been worded less condescendingly, definitely, but that kind of information should be in tooltips or tutorials in-game.

Yeah I noticed a bit late. I thought it was the other guy trying to be funny. Sorry

@Stopnaggin , haha, I edited my original post a bit. I didn't think it could be taken as a personal attack like that, apologies, hopefully it's a bit more clear now

Nah were good.

Magdalina · March 2017

Royaji wrote: »

Magdalina wrote: »

@Royaji, with all due respect...have you tried pugging a vet dungeon? I didn't pull these out of.....nowhere. I pulled those from dozens of people, cp 100, 200, 300, 600(!!) who had NO IDEA about these things and were amazed to no end when they learnt about them. This info needs to be in game and it needs to be more obvious - while this(and anything else really) won't solve the issue for some people it'd greatly help others. I'd just like to see less people alternating bow attacks with jesus beam while standing in red in my pug runs.

Royaji wrote: »

Check the tooltips for maximum magicka, spell damage and spell critical.

Max magicka - "determines how effective your spells are"...okay, but what IS effective? Do they do moar dmg/heals? Maybe crit more often? Have bigger crits?
Spell dmg - "affects how much dmg/healing your magicka based skills/weapons do". Good one. Agreed.
Spell crit - "gives your magicka based weapons and skill a chance to do critical damage". Damage. So...my heals do not crit, right? Oh wait...
I was also talking more about it being mentioned along the skills rather than in char menu too. Which, you are right, I'd generally think it's common sense/char sheet info already but it's not, there're so many people alternating between stamina and magicka skills and doing like 4k dps total it hurts. It needs to be explained more clearly somehow.

All skills state if they are single target, AoE or ground AoE. Once again check the tooltips. And if the game has to tell you that area of effect skill is more useful when you are fighting several enemies, there is an issue with you. Common Sense.

Not common enough. Every second dd in a pug ALWAYS uses aoes on bosses and single target skills on trash packs. I've also had to explain it to mutiple newbies why an aoe is beneficient despite its single target being lower. Not everyone has played mmos before and it can be confusing to people.

Magdalina wrote: »

"This is an execute. This means the damage of this ability only becomes significant after a certain % of enemy's health, which is when it's most beneficial to use it to finish off the enemy."

Check the tooltips. All the infromation you ask for is right there.

I don't ask for any information but I do strongly believe people need to be further informed of jesus beam being a bad fight opener. Because again, 2/3 pugs will use executes at start of the fight, especially jesus beam. Although yes. That's probably wishful thinking here, they'd likely skip over that bit of instruction too. But an extra clarification couldn't hurt still imo.

You already know what I'm going to say. Check the tooltips. Toggle skills have toggle written on it. But I'll give you the double slotting trick.

I've seen people be confused over this. So yes it's possible

Maybe it's my previous MMO experience but it's kinda obvious to me that two buffs with same name never stack. So common sense but I'll agree that this one is a little tricky.

I've never played MMOs before. I read forums here though so I saw ZOS mention that change, but not everyone does, and tbh I'm not sure I'd guess it right otherwise. I've seen like...SO many people get confused over this, to the point of farming a set for days/weeks, only to find out its buff doesn't stack with one they already use.

Maybe you want to check the tooltip for pierce armor or inner fire? "... and taunting/forcing them to attack you for 15 seconds" is the words you are looking for.

Maybe it's because I never played MMOs before(again), or maybe because English isn't my first language but tbh when I just started playing I remember clearly being confused over word "taunt". I mean, I know what word "taunt" means in English, but what can "taunting" mean towards a monster in a game?.. Fortunately I didn't feel like using these skills anyway but if I did, I'd end up being a real potato in my first dungeon runs Again, something I've seen new players get confused over quite a bit. "Oooo so THAT's why boss attacks me?! Damn I didn't realize that's what it meant sorry..."

Check tooltips. And hard and soft caps are not something the devs have to tell you.

The number probably isn't but it'd be nice to know there IS a hardcap at all. Because there're no caps on anything else now, and your armor rating doesn't go red or anything if you are over the hardcap now, you're simply wasting stats into getting more "protection" when in fact you aren't getting any, and the only way to find that out is do rather extensive testing or ask someone who knows.
For comparison, when we did have softcaps, the stat would go orange if you went over it so you actually knew it. Now it's just confusing with armor/spell resistance.

Edit: So much "nice" editing going on here, oh my

@Magdalina , oh, I do PUG dungeons quite a bit. More than that, I do it as a tank.

I'm sorry but I think we put different meaning into the word "tutorial". For me it's something that is necesarry to play the game. How controls and basic systems work, stuff like that. You are asking for tutorial to explain how to "GIT GUD".

Hybrid builds are not that viable in vet dungeones but it doesn't mean it has to be stated in tutorial. You can complete all overworld and normal dungeons with one skill on your bar. Even if it's just Jesus Beam.

Some AoE's have to be used on bosses because most of them are simultaneously DoTs. Stuff like endless hail, wall of elements, liquid lightning and so on. And for some classes there is no good aoe spammable available so they are forced to drop aoe dots and single target trash mobs. So I do not see it as an issue. I do understand I've twisted your words a bit but it's once again falling into the category of tutorial being the basic stuff and not "GIT GUD" territory.

I'll just take the rest of your points as one common issue.

The only way to make all players informed about this stuff is to force everyone to read and retype every tooltip in character window once you start the game and every skill's descrption once you unlock it. But this is not a way to go, right? Some players just do not want to read and it can't be fixed through in-game means. Heck, even other means can't fix humanity.

This game is an MMO. So interacting with other players is a major source of experience and information. It is not possible to explain every little thing in tutorials since half of the time people don't even read them. Half of the tricks we use now were not intended game designs. They were found by other players and were made popular by community. If we want newer players to use them we have to explain them. There is no way the devs can do it for us.

P.S.: and btw, maximum magicka tooltip even states that your spell damage is affected by it. So once again, people do not want to read.

Edit: typos and because we have to keep nice edits going.

I usually pug as a tank too. Or healer. Tank is easier though because I can just solo most of it if people all manage to die

I find pug dps hardest because my efficiency ends up being too dependant on other people.

I see your point, and yeah maybe my post was overdoing it (a bit

) but I guess I'm just frustrated by the experience I've been getting in pugs lately. And I don't mean I expect bis gear and 50k dps but...yeah. You could say it's lack of common sense, yes the game is not that hard to learn, but I guess I'd like to think people are capable of doing better than that - in fact I distinctly remember my pugging experience being significantly better a year or two ago, obviously it was never failproof but the level of what you could call "common sense" was definitely a LOT higher.

We're lacking a better tutorial AND a learning curve imo, there's virtually nothing between content completeable by spamming jesus beam(which is okay, it just absolutely doesn't give players any idea about how the game actually works, nor does it actually give them incentive to figure that out) and veteran dungeons(which are okay too). And it only seems to be getting worse.

klowdy1 · March 2017

Cadbury wrote: »

Stopnaggin wrote: »

Royaji wrote: »

Stopnaggin wrote: »

alexkdd99 wrote: »

Magdalina wrote: »

It's not really an issue and my lvl 8 EU toon is greatly looking forward to this
As for why it's not an issue, 600 cp is simply a matter of time spent playing the game, not skill. Yes, if you spend a lot of the time on the game, you are more likely to gain at least some knowledge about how it works, but that's about it. There're so many activities in the game that you can complete by just spamming light attacks(basically anything except for vet dungeons, trials and some WB), all of which give you full experience now with one Tamriel, there's near zero direct correlation between time and skill.

Not to mention grinding which is already a thing and honestly...if someone wants to grind their toon asap, let them, the sooner they discover game doesn't consist of mindless aoe spam and maybe actually learn something, the better.

What this game needs is a learning curve to go along with that leveling, not moar mindless grinding.

There is a reason that we are seeing more and more max cp players who are clueless on how to play the game.

I know I will take this time to grind up 2 of my friends, which will only be contributing to the problem to an extent. Except I will be taking the time to explain builds and what skills work best. Eso itself does very poorly in explaining much at all.

Agreed, it's the people that teach the game. No proper tutorial for classes and skills. Kudos for helping them, that will do more than any xp gains the get.

How about you start reading instead of complaining? Every skill in the game has a pretty extensive description. Just hover your mouse over it. What kind of tutorial do you want to see? Press "button" to use the skill?

How about learning rotations and dungeon mechanics, what skills are effective on which bosses. See you and people like you are the bane of ESO. For someone new coming into this game its pretty overwhelming, racial abilities, which skill trees to use etc. Not as simple as pushing a button. Then we get into cp, which choices are going to affect your dps, healing etc. So great for you that you were born naturally awsome, right. You never had to learn anything from anyone on here? I guess you're so good you can solo trials first time with no effort right?

Sorry but players like you will kill this game, not the casual base. Telling others how bad they are, or learn to read, which apperantly you yourself lack comprehension, causes people to not do end game content. So the less people that run said content the less they work on it. Why worry about stuff that 1% of players use when they can bring in more that do other stuff? I used to run trials regularly, but now hardly anyone I know wants to run them, because they aren't fun anymore, so I try to run with randoms, and inevitably there are 1 or 2 elitest jerks that want to give grief to someone who doesn't know the mechanics and timing. So yeah no proper tutorials and lack of players teaching what they have learned without being a condescending *** nozzle are the reasons for a playerbase that doesn't know what they are doing.

Hello. Devil's Advocate here.

It is not the responsibility of other players to teach "you" ( "you" as in a general term) how to play the game. The onus falls strictly on "you". The tools to be successful are out there for the inquisitive to take note of and learn from. Nowhere does it say veteran players have to take the time and train newbies all the intricacies of the game.

Should ZOS help with more tutorials? Well FFXIV has a good system in place to introduce new players to dungeon mechanics and roles.

I'm not sure you are thinking about those tools you are speaking of properly. The only things I've found that teach people what to do are veteran players teaching others their knowledge of the game. You're saying it isn't the veterans' place to teach new players, while indirectly pointing them in the direction of that very thing.

If you aren't willing to help out, you have no place complaining about people that need help.

Eiagra · March 2017

Shhhh. I've been trying to get my Dragonknight to 50 for ages, and can't because it's just not any fun. Double XP might actually push the rest of the way I need to go so I never have to mess around with XP grinds again. At least, until Warden class is released.

Cadbury · March 2017

klowdy1 wrote: »

Cadbury wrote: »

Stopnaggin wrote: »

Royaji wrote: »

Stopnaggin wrote: »

alexkdd99 wrote: »

Magdalina wrote: »

It's not really an issue and my lvl 8 EU toon is greatly looking forward to this
As for why it's not an issue, 600 cp is simply a matter of time spent playing the game, not skill. Yes, if you spend a lot of the time on the game, you are more likely to gain at least some knowledge about how it works, but that's about it. There're so many activities in the game that you can complete by just spamming light attacks(basically anything except for vet dungeons, trials and some WB), all of which give you full experience now with one Tamriel, there's near zero direct correlation between time and skill.

Not to mention grinding which is already a thing and honestly...if someone wants to grind their toon asap, let them, the sooner they discover game doesn't consist of mindless aoe spam and maybe actually learn something, the better.

What this game needs is a learning curve to go along with that leveling, not moar mindless grinding.

There is a reason that we are seeing more and more max cp players who are clueless on how to play the game.

I know I will take this time to grind up 2 of my friends, which will only be contributing to the problem to an extent. Except I will be taking the time to explain builds and what skills work best. Eso itself does very poorly in explaining much at all.

Agreed, it's the people that teach the game. No proper tutorial for classes and skills. Kudos for helping them, that will do more than any xp gains the get.

How about you start reading instead of complaining? Every skill in the game has a pretty extensive description. Just hover your mouse over it. What kind of tutorial do you want to see? Press "button" to use the skill?

How about learning rotations and dungeon mechanics, what skills are effective on which bosses. See you and people like you are the bane of ESO. For someone new coming into this game its pretty overwhelming, racial abilities, which skill trees to use etc. Not as simple as pushing a button. Then we get into cp, which choices are going to affect your dps, healing etc. So great for you that you were born naturally awsome, right. You never had to learn anything from anyone on here? I guess you're so good you can solo trials first time with no effort right?

Sorry but players like you will kill this game, not the casual base. Telling others how bad they are, or learn to read, which apperantly you yourself lack comprehension, causes people to not do end game content. So the less people that run said content the less they work on it. Why worry about stuff that 1% of players use when they can bring in more that do other stuff? I used to run trials regularly, but now hardly anyone I know wants to run them, because they aren't fun anymore, so I try to run with randoms, and inevitably there are 1 or 2 elitest jerks that want to give grief to someone who doesn't know the mechanics and timing. So yeah no proper tutorials and lack of players teaching what they have learned without being a condescending *** nozzle are the reasons for a playerbase that doesn't know what they are doing.

Hello. Devil's Advocate here.

It is not the responsibility of other players to teach "you" ( "you" as in a general term) how to play the game. The onus falls strictly on "you". The tools to be successful are out there for the inquisitive to take note of and learn from. Nowhere does it say veteran players have to take the time and train newbies all the intricacies of the game.

Should ZOS help with more tutorials? Well FFXIV has a good system in place to introduce new players to dungeon mechanics and roles.

I'm not sure you are thinking about those tools you are speaking of properly. The only things I've found that teach people what to do are veteran players teaching others their knowledge of the game. You're saying it isn't the veterans' place to teach new players, while indirectly pointing them in the direction of that very thing.

If you aren't willing to help out, you have no place complaining about people that need help.

Those who can, do. Those that can't, teach

phairdon · March 2017

Fantastic. This is going to be good for leveling my new dk.

Stopnaggin · March 2017

Cadbury wrote: »

klowdy1 wrote: »

Cadbury wrote: »

Stopnaggin wrote: »

Royaji wrote: »

Stopnaggin wrote: »

alexkdd99 wrote: »

Magdalina wrote: »

It's not really an issue and my lvl 8 EU toon is greatly looking forward to this
As for why it's not an issue, 600 cp is simply a matter of time spent playing the game, not skill. Yes, if you spend a lot of the time on the game, you are more likely to gain at least some knowledge about how it works, but that's about it. There're so many activities in the game that you can complete by just spamming light attacks(basically anything except for vet dungeons, trials and some WB), all of which give you full experience now with one Tamriel, there's near zero direct correlation between time and skill.

Not to mention grinding which is already a thing and honestly...if someone wants to grind their toon asap, let them, the sooner they discover game doesn't consist of mindless aoe spam and maybe actually learn something, the better.

What this game needs is a learning curve to go along with that leveling, not moar mindless grinding.

There is a reason that we are seeing more and more max cp players who are clueless on how to play the game.

I know I will take this time to grind up 2 of my friends, which will only be contributing to the problem to an extent. Except I will be taking the time to explain builds and what skills work best. Eso itself does very poorly in explaining much at all.

Agreed, it's the people that teach the game. No proper tutorial for classes and skills. Kudos for helping them, that will do more than any xp gains the get.

How about you start reading instead of complaining? Every skill in the game has a pretty extensive description. Just hover your mouse over it. What kind of tutorial do you want to see? Press "button" to use the skill?

How about learning rotations and dungeon mechanics, what skills are effective on which bosses. See you and people like you are the bane of ESO. For someone new coming into this game its pretty overwhelming, racial abilities, which skill trees to use etc. Not as simple as pushing a button. Then we get into cp, which choices are going to affect your dps, healing etc. So great for you that you were born naturally awsome, right. You never had to learn anything from anyone on here? I guess you're so good you can solo trials first time with no effort right?

Sorry but players like you will kill this game, not the casual base. Telling others how bad they are, or learn to read, which apperantly you yourself lack comprehension, causes people to not do end game content. So the less people that run said content the less they work on it. Why worry about stuff that 1% of players use when they can bring in more that do other stuff? I used to run trials regularly, but now hardly anyone I know wants to run them, because they aren't fun anymore, so I try to run with randoms, and inevitably there are 1 or 2 elitest jerks that want to give grief to someone who doesn't know the mechanics and timing. So yeah no proper tutorials and lack of players teaching what they have learned without being a condescending *** nozzle are the reasons for a playerbase that doesn't know what they are doing.

Hello. Devil's Advocate here.

It is not the responsibility of other players to teach "you" ( "you" as in a general term) how to play the game. The onus falls strictly on "you". The tools to be successful are out there for the inquisitive to take note of and learn from. Nowhere does it say veteran players have to take the time and train newbies all the intricacies of the game.

Should ZOS help with more tutorials? Well FFXIV has a good system in place to introduce new players to dungeon mechanics and roles.

I'm not sure you are thinking about those tools you are speaking of properly. The only things I've found that teach people what to do are veteran players teaching others their knowledge of the game. You're saying it isn't the veterans' place to teach new players, while indirectly pointing them in the direction of that very thing.

If you aren't willing to help out, you have no place complaining about people that need help.

Those who can, do. Those that can't, teach

Except this isn't a theory related issue. I can tell you all day not to stand in stupid, but that doesn't mean I will to prove a point. I could tell you how to rebuild an engine, I could also teach you how. One will be more effective than the other.

FuriousStar · March 2017

Yea, I have alts that need lvling up myself.

Reading many of the vet-teaching noobs posts, it happens in every game that requires group activities. Some will sit down and teach. Some won't. Up to the individual. Every one starts out green at some point. And a lot of group activities require a showing of the ropes. That's why it's called a group activity.

But people shouldn't expect a first time dungeon player to go flawless, no matter how good they are in normal pve or even pvp. Learning the environment of each dungeon is a "have to there and experience it" kind of deal.

kyle.wilson · March 2017

VinyParsley2016 wrote: »

Come on, ZOS! No more double XP event! No more Dark anchor party!
The only good news is my Psijic fragment will go back to 100k

https://youtu.be/pWdd6_ZxX8c

Cadbury · March 2017

Stopnaggin wrote: »

Cadbury wrote: »

klowdy1 wrote: »

Cadbury wrote: »

Stopnaggin wrote: »

Royaji wrote: »

Stopnaggin wrote: »

alexkdd99 wrote: »

Magdalina wrote: »

It's not really an issue and my lvl 8 EU toon is greatly looking forward to this
As for why it's not an issue, 600 cp is simply a matter of time spent playing the game, not skill. Yes, if you spend a lot of the time on the game, you are more likely to gain at least some knowledge about how it works, but that's about it. There're so many activities in the game that you can complete by just spamming light attacks(basically anything except for vet dungeons, trials and some WB), all of which give you full experience now with one Tamriel, there's near zero direct correlation between time and skill.

Not to mention grinding which is already a thing and honestly...if someone wants to grind their toon asap, let them, the sooner they discover game doesn't consist of mindless aoe spam and maybe actually learn something, the better.

What this game needs is a learning curve to go along with that leveling, not moar mindless grinding.

There is a reason that we are seeing more and more max cp players who are clueless on how to play the game.

I know I will take this time to grind up 2 of my friends, which will only be contributing to the problem to an extent. Except I will be taking the time to explain builds and what skills work best. Eso itself does very poorly in explaining much at all.

Agreed, it's the people that teach the game. No proper tutorial for classes and skills. Kudos for helping them, that will do more than any xp gains the get.

How about you start reading instead of complaining? Every skill in the game has a pretty extensive description. Just hover your mouse over it. What kind of tutorial do you want to see? Press "button" to use the skill?

How about learning rotations and dungeon mechanics, what skills are effective on which bosses. See you and people like you are the bane of ESO. For someone new coming into this game its pretty overwhelming, racial abilities, which skill trees to use etc. Not as simple as pushing a button. Then we get into cp, which choices are going to affect your dps, healing etc. So great for you that you were born naturally awsome, right. You never had to learn anything from anyone on here? I guess you're so good you can solo trials first time with no effort right?

Sorry but players like you will kill this game, not the casual base. Telling others how bad they are, or learn to read, which apperantly you yourself lack comprehension, causes people to not do end game content. So the less people that run said content the less they work on it. Why worry about stuff that 1% of players use when they can bring in more that do other stuff? I used to run trials regularly, but now hardly anyone I know wants to run them, because they aren't fun anymore, so I try to run with randoms, and inevitably there are 1 or 2 elitest jerks that want to give grief to someone who doesn't know the mechanics and timing. So yeah no proper tutorials and lack of players teaching what they have learned without being a condescending *** nozzle are the reasons for a playerbase that doesn't know what they are doing.

Hello. Devil's Advocate here.

It is not the responsibility of other players to teach "you" ( "you" as in a general term) how to play the game. The onus falls strictly on "you". The tools to be successful are out there for the inquisitive to take note of and learn from. Nowhere does it say veteran players have to take the time and train newbies all the intricacies of the game.

Should ZOS help with more tutorials? Well FFXIV has a good system in place to introduce new players to dungeon mechanics and roles.

I'm not sure you are thinking about those tools you are speaking of properly. The only things I've found that teach people what to do are veteran players teaching others their knowledge of the game. You're saying it isn't the veterans' place to teach new players, while indirectly pointing them in the direction of that very thing.

If you aren't willing to help out, you have no place complaining about people that need help.

Those who can, do. Those that can't, teach

Except this isn't a theory related issue. I can tell you all day not to stand in stupid, but that doesn't mean I will to prove a point. I could tell you how to rebuild an engine, I could also teach you how. One will be more effective than the other.

This is why a teaching method akin to FFXIV would suffice. They have players marked as "Mentors" who are specifically suited to teaching a player the ropes about dungeon roles and class mechanics. The guidelines of being a Mentor are strict enough (imo) to discourage all but the most devoted to pass. Granted, our dungeons are not as mechanics heavy, but imo it's a good step toward bridging the gap and lessening the "us" vs. "them" mentality.

VodkaVixen1979 · March 2017

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

VodkaVixen1979 wrote: »

My lvl 7 and lvl 32 beg to differ. My lvl 32 already has a speed 60 horse, but I would love getting a boost over that painful, grindy hump to lvl 50. Also at 510 CP, I can almost taste 600...

@VodkaVixen1979 , you're either not playing that character, or you're doing it wrong.

You can average a level per hour of play simply by questing..., covering mainline and major map icon quests!?

Level 60 horse ~ 60 days. Had you played them an hour a day, you'd have been there already. You can be level 8 before you leave the starter zone...

To everyone else:
You do realize that everything that's being complained about is not exclusive to 2x XP events, it simply takes longer?

There are people being just as incompetent the slow, normal, usual way, I assure you.

@Merlin13KAGL

Speed 60 horse means I was smart enough to park my alt by a stable and train her speed while I played my other 4 characters. I have skysharded, quested, and lorebook hunted multiple time and I don't want to do it again. Power leveling with additional experience is nice for alts... so, you made an assumption and showed yourself to be an a$$. I am not some noob tool, just prepped in advance.

thisisScoMan · March 2017

6 out of 8 characters at level 50.

Other two are in the 20s.

See ya'll at the dolmens.

disintegr8 · March 2017

Stopnaggin wrote: »

disintegr8 wrote: »

mechsauc3 wrote: »

disintegr8 wrote: »

So, soon there will be more CP600 players without a clue..... nice.

is it that easy to farm 0 cp to 600?

You pop a potion, run a couple of random dailies and do a little xp mob farming, you can get 5-10 cps an hour easy if you are starting the climb.

Jaeysa wrote: »

Why is double XP a bad thing? O_O

Because it lessens the amount of time you actually have to spend playing and learning the game.

You then take your 500-600CP character into a trial or vet dungeon without having a clue on what you are doing. But because you are high CP and can't complete content, you complain this is too hard and ZOS start nerfing things that others can complete - because they spent time learning how to play properly..

Who taught them how to play? I didn't just walk into a trial and kill it. I learned because some non elitest help me learn the mechanics. Again you want better players you teach them, not insult them. How about the cp 300 guys that get kicked because of cp, but does better than cp 600 players? Too much attention is paid to the numbers. Again people make players better not cp.

Agree with the statement I have put in bold, but maybe that is why some people want to reach CP cap as fast as possible - so they don't get kicked before a group starts a dungeon.

I do not kick people from PUGs based on level or CP and will happily start a dungeon with anyone, so I do not think I am an 'elitist'. What happens after the dungeon has started, when they do not respond to voice or text chat and keep making the same mistakes over and over again, is out of my control.

I don't have a problem helping or teaching anyone, but people have to be prepared to listen, learn and possibly realize that getting to the end as quickly as possible is not always the best way to do things.

Stopnaggin · March 2017

disintegr8 wrote: »

Stopnaggin wrote: »

disintegr8 wrote: »

mechsauc3 wrote: »

disintegr8 wrote: »

So, soon there will be more CP600 players without a clue..... nice.

is it that easy to farm 0 cp to 600?

You pop a potion, run a couple of random dailies and do a little xp mob farming, you can get 5-10 cps an hour easy if you are starting the climb.

Jaeysa wrote: »

Why is double XP a bad thing? O_O

Because it lessens the amount of time you actually have to spend playing and learning the game.

You then take your 500-600CP character into a trial or vet dungeon without having a clue on what you are doing. But because you are high CP and can't complete content, you complain this is too hard and ZOS start nerfing things that others can complete - because they spent time learning how to play properly..

Who taught them how to play? I didn't just walk into a trial and kill it. I learned because some non elitest help me learn the mechanics. Again you want better players you teach them, not insult them. How about the cp 300 guys that get kicked because of cp, but does better than cp 600 players? Too much attention is paid to the numbers. Again people make players better not cp.

Agree with the statement I have put in bold, but maybe that is why some people want to reach CP cap as fast as possible - so they don't get kicked before a group starts a dungeon.

I do not kick people from PUGs based on level or CP and will happily start a dungeon with anyone, so I do not think I am an 'elitist'. What happens after the dungeon has started, when they do not respond to voice or text chat and keep making the same mistakes over and over again, is out of my control.

I don't have a problem helping or teaching anyone, but people have to be prepared to listen, learn and possibly realize that getting to the end as quickly as possible is not always the best way to do things.

Easy if they are stubborn and will not take your advice then you can kick them. There are some who for what ever reasons will just not listen, and I'm not going to defend them in the least. But those are in the minority, all that is needed is a little coaching for the most part and you'd be suprised how many will actually become better.

AndrewQ84 · March 2017

Merlin13KAGL · March 2017

VodkaVixen1979 wrote: »

Speed 60 horse means I was smart enough to park my alt by a stable and train her speed while I played my other 4 characters. I have skysharded, quested, and lorebook hunted multiple time and I don't want to do it again. Power leveling with additional experience is nice for alts... so, you made an assumption and showed yourself to be an a$$. I am not some noob tool, just prepped in advance.

You know they don't have to stand there for 20 hours and watch the horse be trained, right?

Nah, if you were serious about it, you've had time. A single CP level character means you're burning through enlightenment faster than you'll receive it, so it's probably not that...

And, while I agree that shard hunting, lorebook hunting, hell, wayshrine unlocking, etc is a pain, it doesn't change the fact that you'll still have to do those things if you want another level 50 (or two). Unless I missed the note about double skyshards, double lorebooks, and double wayshrines?

Guess you'll still have to get your own a$$(es) out of the stable, huh? Thanks for correcting my noob assumption. Now I see it's just lazine$$. The stable thing is actually genius, and takes what, 15 seconds out of the day?

Stopnaggin · March 2017

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

VodkaVixen1979 wrote: »

Speed 60 horse means I was smart enough to park my alt by a stable and train her speed while I played my other 4 characters. I have skysharded, quested, and lorebook hunted multiple time and I don't want to do it again. Power leveling with additional experience is nice for alts... so, you made an assumption and showed yourself to be an a$$. I am not some noob tool, just prepped in advance.

You know they don't have to stand there for 20 hours and watch the horse be trained, right?

Nah, if you were serious about it, you've had time. A single CP level character means you're burning through enlightenment faster than you'll receive it, so it's probably not that...

And, while I agree that shard hunting, lorebook hunting, hell, wayshrine unlocking, etc is a pain, it doesn't change the fact that you'll still have to do those things if you want another level 50 (or two). Unless I missed the note about double skyshards, double lorebooks, and double wayshrines?

Guess you'll still have to get your own a$$(es) out of the stable, huh? Thanks for correcting my noob assumption. Now I see it's just lazine$$. The stable thing is actually genius, and takes what, 15 seconds out of the day?

You assume way to much, others start new toons only get so far and go back to their main. Yep takes 15 seconds to train, then go back to main to run daily quests and what nots. So some people who only have a certain amount of time to play and will level other toons at a different pace. I have 6 toons all complete, so the xp gains don't affect me at all, but I know several who try new toons all the time, so the xp boost will help them, I don't see a problem with it. Everyone has different priorities when the play, some wait for these events to start a new toon to go from 1 to 50, but you know only one point of view matters these days.

Merlin13KAGL · March 2017

My point is there's time. If you really want an alt -> 50, there's time. I've a friend that, between his two accounts, has probably deleted more max level characters than most will every make.

Will it take time away from an alt? Of course it will.

It's not like when you had to actually max your VR level after you rolled over 50, not even close.

Everyone has limited time to play. Point being, it can be done in 50 hours, even if you take your time. And those other requirements (shards, books, undaunted, alliance war) are just as much there either way.

I'm not considering only one point of view matters, but people acting like getting to 50 is some nigh impossible task fall firmly into one of two categories.

Stopnaggin · March 2017

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

My point is there's time. If you really want an alt -> 50, there's time. I've a friend that, between his two accounts, has probably deleted more max level characters than most will every make.

Will it take time away from an alt? Of course it will.

It's not like when you had to actually max your VR level after you rolled over 50, not even close.

Everyone has limited time to play. Point being, it can be done in 50 hours, even if you take your time. And those other requirements (shards, books, undaunted, alliance war) are just as much there either way.

I'm not considering only one point of view matters, but people acting like getting to 50 is some nigh impossible task fall firmly into one of two categories.

No those of us that have been here know better than that. Leveling today is not even close to what it was pre cp. I also create and delete toons way more than I should. I like trying new builds and to cheap to buy the race change, skill resets and what ever else. Partly because it is easy to level now, too easy.

I have been one that has argued that there isn't a sense of progression. Yeah we have levels but what's the point anymore with battle spirit? I've actually settled in on the toons I have now so the extra xp means nothing to me, I'm so far above cp cap it doesn't mean anything anymore. Honestly I keep myself occupied with guildies and trying new builds. Done Cadwells gold 5 times now, not planning on doing it again, at least for a while.

Those of us who have done everything, or almost everything, know it takes no time to level to 50. Hell even cp ranks go by quick. So the extra xp is almost a non factor. Go to skyreach, swallow an ambrosia, bam lvl 50 in a couple of hours.

fgoron2000 · March 2017

Khenarthi wrote: »

klowdy1 wrote: »

I'm pretty sure the "noobs" won't make it to cp600 in the length of the event, and most won't be doing the mob farming. I think the cp600 characters running around with no clue are those that have a cp600 main, and are then forced to the top when an alt hits 50, and they don't have skill lines learned, and endgame class mechanics and rotation down.

If people are farming from lvl 1 to cp600 in that time frame, they more than likely have a large enough gaming experience to do all the research on how to do so, which makes me think they will learn the endgame fairly quickly. Most new players don't know, or even wish to use the power leveling mechanics this game has to offer.

Yup, what @klowdy1 said. I know what I'm doing if I'm on my Nightblades (3 of my 12 characters) but I'm still learning how to really play well with the other classes, even if all characters are now at CP cap. If you see a CP600 questing around on a Templar/Sorcerer/Dragonknight and throwing strange skill combinations at mobs, it may be me!

...throwing strange skill combinations at mobs....i resemble that remark, at cp275

fgoron2000 · March 2017

Stopnaggin wrote: »

VinyParsley2016 wrote: »

Nebthet78 wrote: »

I think the double xp is great to help lower level and lower CP players be able to get up to the cap that much quicker so they are on more even ground with those of us who have been in game from the beginning.

You mean generating a tons of high CP noobs, right?

Or leveling those few toon I started awhile ago, that I never finished. Whats wrong with you people? You were a noob once. You want better players, then teach them, not belittle them. If you don't want to make the community better than quit crying about it. Not like leveling is that hard anyway. Teaching mechanics to people is by far a better way to generate better players.

^^^this

I do very little out in the wild as far as interacting with other players, groups, delves, pvp, etc. I know that I'm very inexperienced even for CP 275, but my focus right now is to learn how to use my skills and abilities, and to level them. Specific builds thru respec's will come later. What I am doing however, is participating in some structured events that my guild has going...once a week, the experienced players will take anybody, including noobs, on various dungeon runs...and we take our time and they encourage questions, and explain both specifics & generalizations about group mechanics...it's great, I try to join in each week when I can...

Banana · March 2017