murdered NPC loot vs Pickpocket loot.

mikeabboudb14_ESO · March 2017

why would a person have three items if you pick their pocket but only one if you kill them. Logically ll the items available should be there if you kill them. There should be more gold less items. Bounties should be higher or last longer. Murders should never have heat released unitl caught or killed. The bounty for murder should never decrease or is should be a large one one time. It should also be tied to the city your in. I mean its murder. No one forgives this. Since are toons are immortal then maybe when they are caught they should be publically executed

SolidusPrime · March 2017

There are quite a few things that make me think you don't really know the system, or how it works over the long term. It seems like you tried it a few times, got frustrated, and then came on here to make an angry post. I'll cover a few of the things I mean here:

Tapio75 wrote: »

Most players can just go about murdering NPC's left and right with getting enough stuff for fences to totally negate the meaning of any bounty they get in the process.

This just isn't true. On average, you'll be topping out at 25-30k per days from stealing. Being a bad thief and blatantly ignoring witnesses when you murder will easily get your bounty up into the thousands or tens of thousands rather quickly. The players that are making a lot from stealing and murdering are experienced and know what they need to do to avoid the bounties.

Tapio75 wrote: »

At least when you pickpocket, there are skill involved in the process and the pickpocket should be the means to get good loot, killing an NPC should give crap.

It does, indeed, give you a better chance for better loot, and the fact that you don't know this is what tipped me off to your lack of experience. I get almost all greens and blues from pickpocketing. It's a toss up when you murder them.

Tapio75 wrote: »

Also the "harder" pickpocket marks should reward a bit better by giving more valuable loot.

Also already the case.

Tapio75 wrote: »

People also claim, that if they pickpocket an NPC, the NPC is empty for next player that attempts to pickpoicket. I find this hard to believe as when i pickpocket folks on my own, i never come across an empty NPC, i have even pickpocketed an NPC that was just pickpocketed by my friend and both of us received 3 pickpockets from the target.

This is in fact true. It's something you would have run into quite a bit if you spent a lot of time pickpocketing. An NPC can be PP'd 3 times before being dry, and it isn't instanced. You didn't get 3 from the same NPC your friend did. This is, in fact, why most people murder the NPCs...because they have looted them dry and killing them get them and their loot to come back faster.

Your points about role play also tend to imply that what you think is a valid character concept is somehow more valid than everyone else's. Maybe I WANT to play a psychotic murderer that does it for no other reason than wanting to murder and steal people's stuff

I think you should spend more time learning the justice/stealing systems before calling for changes to them. It's not nearly as "easy" as you make it sound. Get to the point where you are making 25-30k every day straight for a week and tell me how little time and effort you are putting into it. I'm guessing you're probably pulling in around 8-15 over the course of many hours?

Tapio75 · March 2017

@SolidusPrime

All my comparisons were to current state and suggestions are improvments that would encourage people to pickpocket all 3 times rather than pickpocket twice and kill.

And as i do murders as well, the truth is that when you are good at it, you are basically immune to any consequences and some consequences your carelesnes gives are meaningless cokmpared to end result and general wealth of good player.

For example you can take bounty away for free with pardon edicts. One of my suggestions was, that pardon edicts should not work for murder bounty.

One point of my post is also to lessen the amount of murders. Truth is, that where ever and when ever you go, there is always someone, at least 1 player murdering NPC's and this is not good. Murdering should be harder than what it is now, death scream of NPC should alert a guard for example, get away fast to not receice bounty and so forth.

As i said many times earlier, murder is something not all players enjoy to witnedd, be it NPC personb or animal and thus, should be less rewarding and reserved for those who really like to play a murderer, not for those who want teh loot

kylerjalen · March 2017

Oh I don't see a difference, at least not for me. I always pickpocket an npc twice then assassinate and loot.
The assassination always has that chance of dropping dried blood.
I want it all.

alexkdd99 · March 2017

Tapio75 wrote: »

Hey.

EDIT: Reading many of your comments, i only hear "I want teh loot" in many arguments. However, no matter how you twist it, consequences for murdering someone are meaningless if not totally absent for most players. People make too much gold from murdering and the boubty that careless murders give, are not high enough to make people act more cautiously. Most players can just go about murdering NPC's left and right with getting enough stuff for fences to totally negate the meaning of any bounty they get in the process. Easy loot, money from nothing.. These are what pickpocketing and murdering create. Money from nothing tends to ruin the whole economy of MMO. Furthermore, while many players do not consider NPC's as more than walking containers, this does not mean the walking container should give good loot for murder, murder is easy, blade of woe someone and you get loot easy mode. At least when you pickpocket, there are skill involved in the process and the pickpocket should be the means to get good loot, killing an NPC should give crap.

Furthermore, for many players who are more to playing as character rather than person who just plays for teh stuff. For those of us who do immerse ourselves in to world of Tamriel as characters existing in that world, the massacre of NPC folks is not very immersive as the amount of murder happening is totally out of control. I do like toi play psychotic characters when im angry about something, it is a good way to release some pressure, but i dont think murder as a playstyle should be a playstyle to reserve loot, it should rather be a playstyle to be a murderer, plain and simple. Murder motives are rarely for wealth anyways. Reserve loot for pickpockets who invest skillpoints and personal skill in executing pickpocket correctly and leave murdering for murdering pyschopath, thanks

I think we could get a bit of a change here.. Right now you can actually get pretty good loot at times when you murder an NPC and loot.

I think the more skilled playstyle, pickpocketing should be rewarded better than murder. I think the loot in murder victims should be reduced in quality and worth of what it is now and in turn, second and third pickpocket of same NPC should reward way better than now. Also the "harder" pickpocket marks should reward a bit better by giving more valuable loot.

Personally, i dont think that easy mode/murder should be encouraged. Rather the more skill and planning required pickpocket should be always encouraged as the better option.

People also claim, that if they pickpocket an NPC, the NPC is empty for next player that attempts to pickpoicket. I find this hard to believe as when i pickpocket folks on my own, i never come across an empty NPC, i have even pickpocketed an NPC that was just pickpocketed by my friend and both of us received 3 pickpockets from the target. However.. IF NPC is empty after someone pickpockets it, the system needs to change so that the NPC is not empty for next player. Also, NPC pockets that are emptied, need to reset in same time as it takes for respawn after murtder.

Thing here is, that murder is happening in casual rate as a means to receive loot, not as means to roleplay a murdering character. This needs to change so that item aquisition always happens through pickpocketing and murder is simply a way to roleplay, not as measn to receive good loot. The murdered NPC can have few coins as loot for immersive reasons

Lol murders are rarely for wealth? Where did you come up with that? I would go so far as most murders are for wealth in some form.

Stop trying to change a game that others are involved in for your own selfish reasons. Don't like what others do? Don't play a mmo, plain and simple.

It obviously hasn't messed the market up since it has been a thing forever.

Your immersion is no more important than my gaming experience. If I enjoy murdering people I can do so. Just because you don't like something is not a good enough reason to change something that others do like.

Tapio75 · March 2017

kylerjalen wrote: »

Oh I don't see a difference, at least not for me. I always pickpocket an npc twice then assassinate and loot.
The assassination always has that chance of dropping dried blood.
I want it all.

This is exactly the problem. Pickpocketing should be the means to get the best stuff from NPC's, not murder. Murder is easy and without real consequences, pickpocketing and get caught has no meaningful consequences either, but at least there is more timing and skill involved than simply killing some NPC.

I fully understand the opposition against making it slightly harder to get better stuff because why would impatient player want to wait for right moment to pickpocket when one can just murdr and loot, get teh loot by that easy way of killing.

@alexkdd99
Translation of your comment: I want teh loot. I am not good at pickpocketing so please dont try to change murder less profitable.

TBQ · March 2017

Personally I consider the dead bodies everywhere part of the immersion. Vukhel Guard just isn't the same without seeing the still-living acolytes sweeping over the corpses of their fallen brethren.

Chrysa1is · March 2017

I steal twice and then blade of woe them. Takes longer but you only get 3 loot from a pick pocket then once their inventory is empty, they drop no loot when they die. If you steal twice, then use blade of woe, sometimes npc's will drop 2 items increasing the loot they drop to 4 instead of 3.

Velvelya · March 2017

You get more loot and generally better loot via pick-pocketing. its 3V1 odds. Last night i killed a whole slew of npc in about 3 minutes at the upper portion of rivenspire, probably ten without bothering to pickpocket them first. The majority of the drops were white and I ended up with a 6k bounty. Being the no good scoundrel I am, you can bet I didn't pay. Still the time i had to wait to return to the game is payment enough imo.

Everytime I see a "Crime needs more consequences" thread I cringe. usually because it involves mention of PVP.

kylerjalen · March 2017

Tapio75 wrote: »

kylerjalen wrote: »

Oh I don't see a difference, at least not for me. I always pickpocket an npc twice then assassinate and loot.
The assassination always has that chance of dropping dried blood.
I want it all.

This is exactly the problem. Pickpocketing should be the means to get the best stuff from NPC's, not murder. Murder is easy and without real consequences, pickpocketing and get caught has no meaningful consequences either, but at least there is more timing and skill involved than simply killing some NPC.

I fully understand the opposition against making it slightly harder to get better stuff because why would impatient player want to wait for right moment to pickpocket when one can just murdr and loot, get teh loot by that easy way of killing.

Thats the thing though, I specifically stated I pickpocket till they're empty and then assassinate but that is strictly for the dried blood. I dont think there is THAT much of a major difference between loot from pickpocketing vs loot from kills as I've gotten blues from both avenues. To me, its all a matter of getting the most out of an npc. Even if pickpocketing yielded a higher chance of dropping blues/purples or they completely removed dropped loot from stealth kills, I would still perform the assassinations because of the dried blood drops.

SFDB · March 2017

I say that killing anyone carrying strong rope, a pocket knife, and a child's doll is not murder, it's an act of public service.

maxjapank · March 2017

Why must someone always try and change things? The current game play is fine as is. Leave things alone.

IcyDeadPeople · March 2017

Everstorm wrote: »

IcyDeadPeople wrote: »

Anyone willing to deal with consequences from murder (very high bounty for a long time), should get better reward.

The bounties are a farce, with all the skills that reduce the bounty and make them tick away faster you would have to be really careless to not make a profit.

There are some of us with essentially permanent bounty. I did the math on mine once and it would take 6 or 7 years to go away.

It's a challenge to do things like sneak to the respec shrine and only very recently was I able to unlock the crafting writ system after acquiring the Monk Disguise. Not complaining though because this is a criminal character.

Duiwel · March 2017

OP what about those of us who pickpocket THREE TIMES then blade of woe to respawn them?

Did you think of us? No you only thought of yourself...

Everstorm · March 2017

Velvelya wrote: »

Everytime I see a "Crime needs more consequences" thread I cringe. usually because it involves mention of PVP.

I don't do pvp but I still would like more consequences. It seems ZOS is afraid to inconvenience players too much. Same with vampires and werewolves. Dozens of quest about how evil they are but players can just walk around town with white skin and bloodred eyes.
If I may take the liberty to speak for others: we like a feeling of immersiveness. And that's not just a thing for hardcore roleplayers (which I'm not).
We like to suspend disbelief, to see npcs react in a somewhat human manner. A husband stepping over the corpse of his wife that you just killed while he looked away without showing any reaction is just silly.
When a servant finds a noble murdered the entire neighbourhood should be swarming with guards in no time. Maybe deploy some guards with detection range, etc.
I don't want to make crime undoable, I love my little thieving, murdering bosmer psychopath. But it would be nice to have the game show that you're actually a bad guy, or girl.

danno8 · March 2017

WhiteCoatSyndrome wrote: »

Can't you Pickpocket someone more than once? Whereas you can only murder them one time before they respawn. So you're getting double or triple the loot for Pickpocketing.

I like to pickpocket, then BoW them down for a quick double dip into the loot table. It's the fastest way to get your daily steal amount done, and if you have high passives you should always be at 100% chance to pickpocket with the exceptions of hard targets at 90%.

Teeba_Shei · March 2017

This would only be a problem if there wasn't a fence limit. Since a fence limit exists the most gold you could really earn would be about 30k a day. Alcast made a video where he farmed 35k gold just killing mobs in 30 minutes. You wouldn't be able to murder your way to 140 blue items from npcs in 30 minutes. If it is really that broken then please show us the math.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCPi3QKpe0M

Soella · March 2017

Vigarr wrote: »

You can't get housing items from killing npc's with the blade of woe but you can from picpocketing.

I've got skulls with roughly equal chances both from killing and pickpocketing.

Soella · March 2017

SolidusPrime wrote: »

This is in fact true. It's something you would have run into quite a bit if you spent a lot of time pickpocketing. An NPC can be PP'd 3 times before being dry, and it isn't instanced. You didn't get 3 from the same NPC your friend did. This is, in fact, why most people murder the NPCs...because they have looted them dry and killing them get them and their loot to come back faster.

My husband and I pretty often pickpocketing together. I can confirm that practically always both of us can get all 3 items from the same NPC. It happens sometime - like once per day - that NPC does not have full load of three items for one of us. I bumped into this in very different areas, both very high populated and in the middle of nowhere, so I doubt it is caused by someone else pickpocketed the same NPC.

OmniDo · March 2017

IcyDeadPeople wrote: »

There are some of us with essentially permanent bounty. I did the math on mine once and it would take 6 or 7 years to go away.

I submit then that you, sir, are a terrible thief and a notorious (lol) criminal.
I regularly make 25-35K/day on 3 characters (Nightblades win the game) and I never have a bounty higher than what will fall off by the time I wake up from my typical 6 hours of sleep.
Having a bounty so high that it cannot be paid off is simply the sign of an incompetent or inept player, where the former is either deliberate or incidental.

I pickpocket twice, then murder my target.
If my target cannot be pickpocketed due to their placement against a wall or obstruction, I murder them, collect the single piece of loot and move on.
I also loot chests wherever possible.

Linaleah · March 2017

Tapio75 wrote: »

Did you know, that the NPC pockets are empty only for you? Even people in the same group can each pickpocket a sigle NPC 3 times.

So when you kill an NPC you have pickpocketed for max loot. You take that NPC away from everyone else who might want to pickpocket them after you. That means that everyone else than the person killing the NPC loses the pickpocket chance for the duration of the respawn time.

And letting NPC live should be the option players are encouraged to pick. For example, the bounty for murder should be considerably higher and pardon edicts should not work on murder victims bounty. Pardon edicts are part of thieves guild anyways and thus, should not cover murder bounty.

that has NOT been my experience. i have come across NPC's that only had 1 or 2 loot's left. I have come across empty npc's. I have seen NPC turn suspicious before I could do anything, because while I was waiting for green bonus to light up - someone would come up and pickpocket them before I could. maybe if you are in a group, you each get 3 pickpockets. i have never pickpocketed in a group. however, whoever comes along after you and is NOT in a group with epople who pickpocketed before you? gets an npc that is empty already. I have no idea how long it takes them to become non empty. I know that it only takes them couple of minutes to respawn with full pockets. I have been doing a LOT of stealing lately and this has been my experience, that NPC's are NOT instanced across the board. they are instance to members of the same group, possibly, but they are not instanced in the way that containers are. incidentally - in non instanced content - locked chests are also not instanced. found that out when running delves with a friend. if I lockpick and loot a chest - it disappears for him too, before he can loot it.

Mike0987 · March 2017

Pickpocketing, how petty. Safeboxes are were its at. I wish they continued with the black market mogul achievement up to 10M or 100M even...

SydneyGrey · March 2017

It's so hard to make money in this game before you're level 40-ish, unless you have another character who can funnel money to your new character. Any way to make money while levelling is a good way.

Tapio75 wrote: »

Money from nothing tends to ruin the whole economy of MMO.

I agree with some of what you said, but not this. I guess I just don't quite get that some people take the fake economy and fake money of an online game seriously.

EDIT: People are free to disagree with me.

Tapio75 · March 2017

SydneyGrey wrote: »

It's so hard to make money in this game before you're level 40-ish, unless you have another character who can funnel money to your new character. Any way to make money while levelling is a good way.

Tapio75 wrote: »

Money from nothing tends to ruin the whole economy of MMO.

I agree with some of what you said, but not this. I guess I just don't quite get that some people take the fake economy and fake money of an online game seriously.
EDIT: People are free to disagree with me.

The reason i take economy somewhaat seriously in a game, is that while infinite inflation does not really hurt old players like myself, the longer the MMO lives and the longer the inflation keeps going, the harder it is for the new players to even get to buy stuff they need or want.

Its like when i started when game launched, 10k gold was good sum and you could buy many things with that amount, Last summer 20k was enough to buy stuff i needed. Today i have 50k gold which is hefty sum, but it really goes fast if you need to buy materials or anything. Some prices have been going lower lately though.

I also might be wrong with this statement, this is just what i have observed happening in many games i played.

Ajaxduo · March 2017

So where is this evidence that fencing stolen items is breaking the economy?