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ZOS, please stop placing most, if not all desirable items in the crown/gem/crate store. It's boring.

burglar
burglar
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From all of my experiences in playing MMOs, some of the most arduous feats, or impossible quests I completed were to obtain something that might have seemed ridiculous to some, but unique and valuable to the everyone else. In some games, unique items are difficult to obtain, some items are only available prior to a specific patch, but it's these items that motivate some players to continue playing. However, with the advent of the crown store the only barrier to unique/interesting items is the value I place on my own money, which honestly, given these circumstances, I'd rather go out to a decent dinner than buy 4-5 items I can look at occasionally.

I reconsidered my convictions at times and I wondered if, maybe my frustration is a result of where I come from? I first played Ultima online for a tiny bit, then asherons call for a few years, then DAoC for a few years as well and what I loved about those games was the unique experiences I had while playing them. Now I play ESO and I love it, been playing since PS4 launch. I was really hopeful for the justice system, but I guess I can accept that it's gone. However, the crown/gem/crate store is becoming too much. The store is removing all of the valuable PVE experiences we should be having for having purchased the game, and by playing. First, consider imperial city, what I thought to be like darkness falls in DAoC doesn't function the way it was intended to(or as I assumed it to), and instead has slowly fallen into a cateogry of perceived 'useless content' as the willpower and agility jewelry has been replaced by newer content. I guess this doesn't have to do with the crate store, but it's along the same line of thinking; make things easy and obtainable. If you pvp you know what I mean. As for PVE, the unqiue items you may have put effort in to obtaining are a click (and a paycheck [if you live in zimbabwe {is this inappropriate? what's that 1800 number again? i feel terrible, now. first world problems}]) away... but to reiterate or be more emphatic, why in the heck are you guys making everything that would make me play your game for hours an easily purchasable item in your crown/gem/crate store? I think to myself, sure I could log in and buy these items, and have them, and gawk, but once I receive them, they won't hold any value because there's no meaning in my efforts to obtain them; in essence I spent some time doing something other than playing the game to get them. Which, I guess its great that you can use that money to create new content, but how does that help me, the player, if you're not creating new content that actually interests me? I hope you guys don't think that I am going to willingly continue to purchase my satisfaction from playing your game. Maybe if you could get all of the qualities of PC into consoles I would, but until then, I rely on my gameplay experience, and your crown/gem/crate store has been making that experience fall short.

Maybe it's just me? Genre's always shift; is having the items enough for people to purchase them? I hope not. I play RPGs because my character is a representation of how I have chosen to navigate the experience that developers have created for me. However, I currently feel that developers are choosing to omit the entirety of what makes an RPG enjoyable for me, somehow. I don't know if it's entirely their fault; they rely on other people to pay for things, sometimes. Those other people want money. I get it, but like, can we move just a little back into the direction of what makes an RPG good?
Bosmer Melee Magicka Nightblade
  • RapidUrsa
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    They should defo have Vet trials mounts in this game!! I would not stop trying to get them!!
    About Me
    Xbox - EU
    Gamertag - RapidUrsa
    Overall CP - 750
  • Turelus
    Turelus
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    Sadly this is the way of most games once a cash shop enters it. Having items earnt within the game undermines the revenue of the store.

    That said they have had skins, pets and polymorphs in the game, it's only mounts which they haven't added.

    I personally would love to see each expansions base mount (camel, wolf, etc.) be a gold purchase (high cost) and the alternate versions sold via crown store.
    @Turelus - EU PC Megaserver
    "Don't count on others for help. In the end each of us is in this alone. The survivors are those who know how to look out for themselves."
  • Prof_Bawbag
    Prof_Bawbag
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    I really don't mean to come across as a smart ass and apologises if that's how i do come across, but putting the most desirable items etc in the CS/crates makes the most sense from a business pov. I mean, why put something in a dungeon if people are willing to throw their cash at it instead?
  • Jitterbug
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    Good post, OP.
    Good post.
  • imnotanother
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    I agree.
    I understand the motivation of placing all desired items in the Crown store but there should be some items in the world that are earned only.

    As mentioned above, there are skins, dyes, and polymorphs, and even mementos.

    But I have always wish there were unique mounts that represented skill and time invested instead of money and luck.
    PS4: NA - AD PSN: imnotanother (Artell Lyeselle)
    Stamina NightBlade 810+ CP - PvP/Trials/Dungeon Ready
  • Rohamad_Ali
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    I was glad they made the Sabertooth mount direct purchase but it would be nice to see new things added directly Ingame as rewards . That increases the value of the game and if they put some of those rewards in DLC areas , that another reason to sub or buy expansions .
  • Knootewoot
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    I was so happy and had a sense of achievement in Vanguard when I got

    - my first flying mount
    - upgraded my griffon to a raid-griffon
    - Got a Wyvern egg and the incubator on same day
    - Crafting one of the first sailboats
    - Got the buildplans to craft a galleon by doing a raid
    - Building a galleon

    So I agree with OP.

    What destroyed Vanguard

    In the end they made a cash shop

    what was there for sale

    Faster flying mounts then the raid mounts
    Galleons for very cheap real money
    Better looking Wyvern mounts with lots of variation

    Vanguard was not doing good before the cash shop so it was dying anyway. But putting all hard to get items for cheap money was the last nail in the coffin. That, but I believe they added cashshop as they knew they where gonna pull plug and wanted to extract moah money,
    ٩(͡๏̯͡๏)۶
    "I am a nightblade. Blending the disciplines of the stealthy agent and subtle wizard, I move unseen and undetected, foil locks and traps, and teleport to safety when threatened, or strike like a viper from ambush. The College of Illusion hides me and fuddles or pacifies my opponents. The College of Mysticism detects my object, reflects and dispels enemy spells, and makes good my escape. The key to a nightblade's success is avoidance, by spell or by stealth; with these skills, all things are possible."
  • Tabbycat
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    I'm going to play devil's advocate for a moment here.

    If you place desirable unique mounts as rewards for completing PvE quest chains, you will have players complaining that they only PvP and do not want to have to PvE to get those unique rewards.

    If you place desirable unique mounts as rewards for PvP, you will have players that complain they hate PvP and don't want to be forced to do it just to get the unique mount.

    If you place desirable unique mounts in dungeons/ trials, again you will have players complaining they have to do content they don't want to do in order to get unique mounts.

    If you place desirable unique mounts in the crown store, you still have players complaining they have to buy them, but everyone has an equal opportunity to get them regardless of their preferred play style.
    Founder and Co-GM of The Psijic Order Guild (NA)
    0.016%
  • theher0not
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    IMO there should at least be mount drops/rewards from DLC/expantion content.

    But preferably even from base content, for example: 1 per vet trial(rare drop from the final boss) and mounts for hard achievments (similar to WoW's "Glory of the raider"/"Glory of the hero").
    Edited by theher0not on March 22, 2017 11:53AM
  • Knootewoot
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    Tabbycat wrote: »
    I'm going to play devil's advocate for a moment here.

    If you place desirable unique mounts as rewards for completing PvE quest chains, you will have players complaining that they only PvP and do not want to have to PvE to get those unique rewards.

    If you place desirable unique mounts as rewards for PvP, you will have players that complain they hate PvP and don't want to be forced to do it just to get the unique mount.

    If you place desirable unique mounts in dungeons/ trials, again you will have players complaining they have to do content they don't want to do in order to get unique mounts.

    If you place desirable unique mounts in the crown store, you still have players complaining they have to buy them, but everyone has an equal opportunity to get them regardless of their preferred play style.

    I want a maelstrom weapon, but I do not want to do the arena on vet-mode. I haven't even tried. Not complaining, but I would also not complain if the weapons where added to the golden vendor.

    If course there are always people who complain. But quests rewards, raid rewards, PvP rewards are very common in most mmo's. I do think this it the better solution, but of course others will disagree (and wave their wallet @zos).
    ٩(͡๏̯͡๏)۶
    "I am a nightblade. Blending the disciplines of the stealthy agent and subtle wizard, I move unseen and undetected, foil locks and traps, and teleport to safety when threatened, or strike like a viper from ambush. The College of Illusion hides me and fuddles or pacifies my opponents. The College of Mysticism detects my object, reflects and dispels enemy spells, and makes good my escape. The key to a nightblade's success is avoidance, by spell or by stealth; with these skills, all things are possible."
  • ADarklore
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    I think you said it best OP with these bolded lines, "... some of the most arduous feats, or impossible quests I completed were to obtain something that might have seemed ridiculous to some, but unique and valuable to the everyone else. In some games, unique items are difficult to obtain, some items are only available prior to a specific patch, but it's these items that motivate some players to continue playing. "

    The fact that you are admitting that this concept applies only to some players... yet ZOS has to cater to the majority of players and the majority don't want to waste their time chasing achievements or other items. Most players simply want to come in and play the content they enjoy, not spend time chasing things down through grinds. If you look at housing, you have so many players complaining about mat drop rates... it's because they don't want to spend their time grinding for things, they want to spend their time playing the content they want to play. Thus, for the majority of players, having items available in the Crown Store allows them to buy what they want while spending their in-game time playing the content they want.
    CP: 2130 ** ESO+ ** ~~ ***** Strictly a solo PvE quester *****
    ~~Started Playing: May 2015 | Stopped Playing: July 2025 | Returned: March 2026~~
  • raj72616a
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    let me know when they are adding fishing vessel, decoy elder scroll, emperor throne, sharpened maelstrom lightning staff to the crown store.
  • KerinKor
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    Turelus wrote: »
    Sadly this is the way of most games once a cash shop enters it. Having items earnt within the game undermines the revenue of the store.
    Proven time and time again (LoTRO being the most egregious) when a sub-based game goes F2P (and B2P is no different in this), "driving Store sales" becomes a key element of the game design from that point on.

  • Gandrhulf_Harbard
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    Tabbycat wrote: »
    I'm going to play devil's advocate for a moment here.

    If you place desirable unique mounts as rewards for completing PvE quest chains, you will have players complaining that they only PvP and do not want to have to PvE to get those unique rewards.

    If you place desirable unique mounts as rewards for PvP, you will have players that complain they hate PvP and don't want to be forced to do it just to get the unique mount.

    If you place desirable unique mounts in dungeons/ trials, again you will have players complaining they have to do content they don't want to do in order to get unique mounts.

    So have ALL three of those activities drop Tokens, then make it so for 10 Tokens you can buy a Rare Mount Training Manual (there's already a similarly titled Lorebook in The Gold Coast IIRC - something to do with Dire Wolves).

    Put the Mounts in a Vendor at Faction Capital Stables. Having the Mounts on view in the stables will incentivise people to want them, having "tokens" drop from three different sources means EVERYONE has a chance to get them. As Mounts are BoA make the Tokens also BoA.

    It solves the "problem" fully - everyone can get the Mounts regardless of preferred play style, and no one has to shell out any more money over what they are already paying.

    Took me less time to think that up than it took you to type your post defending the Cash-Grab



    All The Best
    Edited by Gandrhulf_Harbard on March 22, 2017 1:24PM
    Those memories come back to haunt me, they haunt me like a curse.
    Is a dream a lie if it don't come true, or is it something worse.
  • Gandrhulf_Harbard
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    KerinKor wrote: »
    Turelus wrote: »
    Sadly this is the way of most games once a cash shop enters it. Having items earnt within the game undermines the revenue of the store.
    Proven time and time again (LoTRO being the most egregious) when a sub-based game goes F2P (and B2P is no different in this), "driving Store sales" becomes a key element of the game design from that point on.

    LOTRO isn't even as gouging as ESO.

    And SWTOR is far more gouging than either.

    All The Best
    Those memories come back to haunt me, they haunt me like a curse.
    Is a dream a lie if it don't come true, or is it something worse.
  • SantieClaws
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    Of course they put all of the best treasures in the clown crates yes.

    They wish you to be tempted to purchase many, many of them.

    Do not give in.

    Yours with paws
    Santie Claws
    Shunrr's Skooma Oasis - The Movie. A housing video like no other ...
    Find it here - https://youtube.com/user/wenxue2222

    Clan Claws - now recruiting khajiit and like minded others for parties, fishing and other khajiit stuff. Contact this one for an invite.

    PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!

    https://www.imperialtradingcompany.eu/
  • m2super_ESO
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    OP these are cosmetic items, not things that make your character more powerful in game, if you could purchase armor and weapons from the store I would have an issue with it, cosmetic I am ok with it. I am reasonable enough to understand they need to pay the people developing updates/new content for the game as well as servers/networking/building-rent if they are not going to force you to have a sub then this is the only way they can make money.
  • flizomica
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    zos doesn't have any level-boosting items or the like, so the sole cash revenue is from sparkly cosmetics.
  • Gandrhulf_Harbard
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    zos doesn't have any level-boosting items or the like, so the sole cash revenue is from sparkly cosmetics.

    Yes it does.

    Crown Experience Scrolls.

    All The Best
    Those memories come back to haunt me, they haunt me like a curse.
    Is a dream a lie if it don't come true, or is it something worse.
  • Ep1kMalware
    Ep1kMalware
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    I got my necrotic hoarver 2 months after IC dropped. It has been by my side since.
  • Khedrakb14_ESO
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    I don't know if it's entirely their fault; they rely on other people to pay for things, sometimes. Those other people want money. I get it, but like, can we move just a little back into the direction of what makes an RPG good?

    The thing is most people didn't want a pay to play game, they all screamed free to play. They want to play free, but an MMO can not survive on free to play unless it has the really great stuff in an online store for people to buy. If they had all the great stuff in game as well then no one would buy things from the online store and the game would die. Now if the game was a monthly subscription only, then every cool and great thing would just be put into the game and we all can enjoy the ways of obtaining them. That is the way I believe all MMO's should be. But too many want ftp.

    So blame all those that still think Free to Play is best, for it is NOT!

    That is why I had posted when the game was in Beta that they should do both, Free to Play and a Paid Subscription with benefits. (Most of you disagreed with me on that one, saying ftp only) I still think the ESO+ subscribers should get more than we do now though. Like we should also get at minimum 3 Crown Crates per ESO+ paid month, and each boss in the game once per day should have a 1-5% chance to drop a crate for subscribers. Those with ESO+ should also have access to those Assistants. I also think that ESO+ subscribers should get a fully accessible bank (2x the size we have now though) while they have ESO+. That would make subscribing to ESO+ worth the $15.00 a month price tag. If I pay a monthly fee I would want as much of the cash shop items to be available to me as I am already paying for it. As well as if I drop my ESO+ subscription I'd lose access to all those unless I had already unlocked them with crowns. I do know they need to make money in a overly wanted free to play era, but those of us that pay monthly should get more than we do now. If I played World of Warcraft with their paid subscription, I would get everything except the very few cosmetic extra pets, mounts and hats from their online store. I'd just have to obtain them within the game, either by a drop, quest or buy with in-game gold.

    ESO+ seems less and less in value, the more they add to the crown store and now with the crown crates. The more they add to the Crown Store the more of it they should give to the ESO+ subscribers while they have an active ESO+ membership.
    Edited by Khedrakb14_ESO on March 22, 2017 5:11PM
  • nine9six
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    I hang my head and cry every time I see someone with a Crate Mount.

    :cry:

    Please return the Ashlander Pack (and everything else) to the Crown store so I can give you money.

    Wake up, we're here. Why are you shaking? Are you ok? Wake up...
  • Khedrakb14_ESO
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    Tabbycat wrote: »
    I'm going to play devil's advocate for a moment here.

    If you place desirable unique mounts as rewards for completing PvE quest chains, you will have players complaining that they only PvP and do not want to have to PvE to get those unique rewards.

    If you place desirable unique mounts as rewards for PvP, you will have players that complain they hate PvP and don't want to be forced to do it just to get the unique mount.

    If you place desirable unique mounts in dungeons/ trials, again you will have players complaining they have to do content they don't want to do in order to get unique mounts.

    If you place desirable unique mounts in the crown store, you still have players complaining they have to buy them, but everyone has an equal opportunity to get them regardless of their preferred play style.

    What they need to do is have a vendor that sells items for special tokens. These tokens can be PVP tokens, Quest tokens, dungeon tokens, daily tokens and what not and can be obtained from all sorts of ways. But they all get spent at the same vendor and for the same items. This way it don't matter if players do more PVP or PVE content and all still get the same rewards. Why should anyone get stuff that others can not or be forced to do something they don't like just to get rewards that they would like to obtain. They could add a cap per day for these tokens so that no one can get more than anyone else as long as they put in the time needed to get to the cap.

    just like ESO+ should have access to more of the Crown Store items than they do now, as long as they have an active ESO+ subscription. Then lose them if they no longer have an ESO+ subscription unless they unlocked them with the crowns or crates they get from the ESO+ subscription. (Yes we should also get 1 - 3 crown crates as well as the 1500 crowns)
  • Sidskii
    Sidskii
    Soul Shriven
    They should just make an ESO + Server where there was no Crown Store. Heck... they could even charge doble the price for the sub, and i'd still play on that server.
  • Ojustaboo
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    I really don't mean to come across as a smart ass and apologises if that's how i do come across, but putting the most desirable items etc in the CS/crates makes the most sense from a business pov. I mean, why put something in a dungeon if people are willing to throw their cash at it instead?

    Well they could place it in both, make it hard to achieve by playing, taking ages but still possible, then many would still throw cash at it in the crown store.

    I want a manor, I've spent all my playtime for the past 3 weeks doing nothing but farming. I'm not there yet. Meanwhile a good friend has better things to do than grind for gold, hence she bought her houses with crowns. Both of us are happy.
  • Ojustaboo
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    Tabbycat wrote: »

    If you place desirable unique mounts in the crown store, you still have players complaining they have to buy them, but everyone has an equal opportunity to get them regardless of their preferred play style.

    Well that depends on how much real money they cost.

    I can afford and justify subbing, I cannot justify with my current financial situation due to Ill health, buying any more crowns. So unless all the unique mounts etc are available with just the crowns that come with my monthly sub, then no, compared to someone with a healthy disposable income, I don't have an equal opportunity,
  • deepseamk20b14_ESO
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    What items are you talking about? Just wondering. The only thing I see people even caring about is the mounts and that's it. Considering the amount of items in the game and all but the crazy mounts are accessible, this games cash shop isn't even close to as bad as any other game I've ever played that had a cash shop.
    Hey everyone! Look! It's a signature!
  • Molydeus
    Molydeus
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    Ojustaboo wrote: »
    Tabbycat wrote: »

    If you place desirable unique mounts in the crown store, you still have players complaining they have to buy them, but everyone has an equal opportunity to get them regardless of their preferred play style.

    Well that depends on how much real money they cost.

    I can afford and justify subbing, I cannot justify with my current financial situation due to Ill health, buying any more crowns. So unless all the unique mounts etc are available with just the crowns that come with my monthly sub, then no, compared to someone with a healthy disposable income, I don't have an equal opportunity,

    If you can't afford the crown crates there are many other direct purchase mounts you can get. There are also mounts ingame for gold.
  • Tandor
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    Tabbycat wrote: »
    I'm going to play devil's advocate for a moment here.

    If you place desirable unique mounts as rewards for completing PvE quest chains, you will have players complaining that they only PvP and do not want to have to PvE to get those unique rewards.

    If you place desirable unique mounts as rewards for PvP, you will have players that complain they hate PvP and don't want to be forced to do it just to get the unique mount.

    If you place desirable unique mounts in dungeons/ trials, again you will have players complaining they have to do content they don't want to do in order to get unique mounts.

    If you place desirable unique mounts in the crown store, you still have players complaining they have to buy them, but everyone has an equal opportunity to get them regardless of their preferred play style.

    Well said.

    Also, mounts are fluff items, once you've got one, and several are available in the game. Fluff items (including things other than mounts) are precisely the sort of things that you want to have in a cash shop or lockbox, they're things people are willing to throw money at but which give no game advantage. Those who have no interest in cash shops and lockboxes aren't missing out on anything important either.

    The idea that everything that is worthwhile to someone but essential to no-one can be found in the game is fine in a subscription-only game, but it isn't feasible in a B2P or F2P game.
  • Tasear
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    Besides the mounts, they have done decent job at balance.
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