ZOS need to start considering removing/changing sets

Takes-No-Prisoner · March 2017

OP information about Black Rose is partly incorrect

Black Rose:
This item set's 4-piece bonus now grants Maximum Magicka instead of Maximum Stamina.

This item set now increases the Magicka or Stamina restored by the Constitution passive by 35%, down from 40%.

Developer Comments: Black Rose was too powerful with how much more resources it gave to the Constitution passive. Reducing this bonus slightly keeps the set viable, and balances it better against other Heavy Armor options.

Source CTRL+F, search 'Black Rose'

Chilly-McFreeze · March 2017

[quote="mafli1;3923213"]Remove all the existing gear and cp from pvp. implement a few free to get "pvp-only-gear" for every class which affects only the own char. create new content to earn special pvp gear in cyrodiil. pvp gear craft stations would be a thing..

Problems solved:
- Server performance improved
- Skill is more important then gear
- ressource management is a thing
- content that spreads the population on the whole map (performance improved)
[/quote]

Might wanna go play a shooter instead of an RPG?

jeremiah911 · March 2017

I completely agree with considering changes / updates to set bonuses so lets start with VO why don't we. That set has the equivalent to 3 5 piece bonuses and is virtually the only set required for all stam classes. Resources, speed, 5% damage buff, WD....seems like its everything the OP described but for PvE.

mafli1 · March 2017

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

[quote="mafli1;3923213"]Remove all the existing gear and cp from pvp. implement a few free to get "pvp-only-gear" for every class which affects only the own char. create new content to earn special pvp gear in cyrodiil. pvp gear craft stations would be a thing..

Problems solved:
- Server performance improved
- Skill is more important then gear
- ressource management is a thing
- content that spreads the population on the whole map (performance improved)

Might wanna go play a shooter instead of an RPG?[/quote]

Dont get the context. why do u think that gear makes the difference between RPG and Shooters?

UppGRAYxDD · March 2017

soo all I got from this nerf post: OP is a stamina toon mad at magicka toons

IcyDeadPeople · March 2017

Out of the sets you mentioned above, I agree about Black Rose and Desert Rose, but Syrabane's seems a bit more balanced, as it only procs on spells. If you make the tradeoff to rely completely on Syrabane's for sustain and then get into a fight with stam build, you will run out of resources.

More interested in seeing updates to all those sets that are either kinda useless or funky.

Spacemonkey · March 2017

just remove all sets and replace it with something alike infinite exponential equipment glyph fusion (exponential as in exponentially smaller and smaller effect, not the other way around -_-).

Progression: solved
RNG: solved
Balance: ..... its not like anything is currently balanced anyway
Lag: solved

Ok, so not a full troll post, something in these lines would still be better than the whole set concept imo.

DHale · March 2017

I just believe you and people like you are bound and determined to ruin this game. I have never met nor seen in any situation anyone with infinite sustain. I have over 830 cp and have played since pc launch so just shy of three years. As you do nerf sustain then more people will bunch up and Zerg everyone and everywhere. Soon the only threat will be guards that I watched squash groups in no cp campaigns. I defended keeps in non cp with very few people the guards killed like 70 percent of the enemy. It was certainly amusing but not fun.

So go ahead make groups stronger while nerfing the solo and small group players because we need more Zerg action.

xblackroxe · March 2017

jeremiah911 wrote: »

I completely agree with considering changes / updates to set bonuses so lets start with VO why don't we. That set has the equivalent to 3 5 piece bonuses and is virtually the only set required for all stam classes. Resources, speed, 5% damage buff, WD....seems like its everything the OP described but for PvE.

Where exactly is VO mandatory outside of vma?

Trials? Nope only 3pc which is the same as alkosh, noone should be on 5pc there.
DSA? Nope its a nice set for the dd that doesnt run nmg but by no means is it the only set to run.
PVP? I haven't seen anyone use that in pvp. So no.

Only reason i still have it is when i solo grind some stuff.

Joy_Division · March 2017

While I do think many sets need adjustment (particularly crafting), I do not agree that it is the sustain sets that are particularly problematic. Even if you nerf that crap out of the 6 the OP has listen and throw in Alteration Mastery for good measure, as long as I can craft a Heavy Seducer's set, my sustain will just be fine, CP or no CP.

So it just would be limiting build variety.

Additionally, I do not see the appeal of pushing us more to damage oriented sets, as if this game needed any more incentive for damage. As it is, many people base their build primarily upon damage sets.

And for the record, I didn't like dynamic ultimate "because it was broken" Rich, I liked it because the mechanic meant the more people you brought to a fight, you wouldn't automatically have more ultimates, and thus winning the fight through sheer numbers.

xblackroxe · March 2017

UppGRAYxDD wrote: »

soo all I got from this nerf post: OP is a stamina toon mad at magicka toons

Jokes on you, op is a magplar.

AhPook_Is_Here · March 2017

I've never known an MMO to remove sets. That's a hard one, some people likely spent a month of rng or millions of AP to get the right traits on some of those sets you've listed. To simply remove them from the game would likely drive a lot of them out of the game, at least the ones that aren't junkies. Toning down sets in conjunction with a CP nerf would work but I don't see that being sufficient without nerfing CP regens.

If PVP is still full of infinite sustain builds they can always raise ability cost if battle spirit is up, or just add 2-3 second back ended cool downs to abilities and dodge roll if you have battle spirit that makes infinite resource builds negligible if resources can't be spent that fast.

luen79rwb17_ESO · March 2017

Most of those sets have been nerfed with Homestead patch.

Rich/Wrobel have said they always intend slight changes and then go for a full fix if the 1st approach didn't work out as intended.

I believe they're placing their bets on CP sustain 1st and then adjust the sets even further? Maybe there are already gear set changes we don't know of because people didn't take pics on PAX?

Pre-Morrowind PTS testing is going to be crucial in this matter!

[Deleted User] · March 2017

The user and all related content has been deleted.

Nifty2g · March 2017

xblackroxe wrote: »

UppGRAYxDD wrote: »

soo all I got from this nerf post: OP is a stamina toon mad at magicka toons

Jokes on you, op is a magplar.

UppGRAYxDD wrote: »

soo all I got from this nerf post: OP is a stamina toon mad at magicka toons

Jokes on both of you, I tank and heal

Nifty2g · March 2017

OOJIMMY wrote: »

the Cp removal is only going to make most people switch up jewelry enchants to cost reductions I thought.

Only? Spell Damage enchantments are a huge part of your damage. They equal to 537 spell or weapon damage for using 3. Sounds like a huge streamline nerf to damage. While I'm all about resources being a strain removing the cost reduction CP's isn't the best way. Try helping ZOS out cause they will probably do it one way or another.

Chilly-McFreeze · March 2017

mafli1 wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

[quote="mafli1;3923213"]Remove all the existing gear and cp from pvp. implement a few free to get "pvp-only-gear" for every class which affects only the own char. create new content to earn special pvp gear in cyrodiil. pvp gear craft stations would be a thing..

Problems solved:
- Server performance improved
- Skill is more important then gear
- ressource management is a thing
- content that spreads the population on the whole map (performance improved)

Might wanna go play a shooter instead of an RPG?

Dont get the context. why do u think that gear makes the difference between RPG and Shooters?[/quote]

@mafli1

For me? For me an simply pvp shooter is: select a class, choose a weapon, at best a skin and go for it. All about skill. That isn't bad, it's an even playing field. Someone who starts new from the scratch got the same in-game options as someone who spend thousands of hours. Nice, fast, skill based action.

And then there is an role-play game. A game in which you play a role... build a character with all the benefits and drawbacks, get stronger through leveling up and getting better gear. Doesn't mean skill isn't a part of this one, but skill is not the only thing that distinguishes a newling from a veteran. Not better, nor worse than the other genre, but different. And you knew what you where getting into when you bought and TES RPG.

See what I mean? Achieved gear and progressed character (= stronger chars) are a part of what I see as a difference between an flat out PvP shooter and an RPG MMO PvP environment. Although there are more things that seperates Shooters from RPG, because you said you want to withdraw progression (cp) and advancement (gear), it moves this game more into the direction of an simply "shooter". Maybe a nice addition as seperate PvP mode but that's all the use I can imagine about your suggestion.

Dreyloch · March 2017

For the OP,

Only 2, maybe 3 of the sets you listed are even worn by any decent pvp'ers. Desert Rose got nerfed. No one wears Warlock, or withered hand to my knowledge. Least not anyone in my guild. Black rose, Lich, and maaayyybe Syrabane. Are popular choices.

But we have to look at the mechanics of the game itself and see what it takes to survive these days. We all know Light and Medium armor is at a bit of a disadvantage atm. You might be able to dish out a great deal of damage. But at some point your going to be overwhelmed by too many enemies in PvP. You have to be able to kill them faster than they kill you, or be able to prolong the fight till you can.

So what happened? With some new Heavy armor passives, new Magicka based HA sets, being able to get weapons and jewelry, higher CP caps allowing more sustain...we end up with the game the way it is today. Everyone that wants to take major damage and survive while in a large group (or fighting one) needs more magic and physical resists. I have yet to see ANY build for ANY class use the CP's for "if you wear 5 pieces of blank armor, you get this resist higher" It's over shadowed by being able to spam a heal, or cast a shield or roll dodge like crazy to live and sustain and keep on fighting.

What I'm getting at is, I'm not happy with these proposed changes. I don't think armor sets are the issue. I think the CP system needs to have separate areas for PvE and PvP. With the ability to switch between them. It's either that, or no CP at all in PvP, or no set armor allowed in PvP, or making all skills work differently depending on what enviroment your playing in.

This "all CP's for all styles of play" system has been a terrible idea from the start. Removing armor sets isn't the answer. Nerfing the crap out of sustain isn't either.

Jitterbug · March 2017

"Yay I just golded all my awesome gear"
*logs out to download patch*

And-Its-Gone..jpg

Ep1kMalware · March 2017

Nifty2g wrote: »

Lets be honest here, removing Warlord and Magician won't exactly do anything for End Game Champion Point cap PvP gameplay, the main issue here is gear. Gear is completely out of control because certain gear have not been adjusted accordingly since our last major gear overhaul which happened long long long ago back in 1.3.1(2014). I believe ZOS needs to go back and adjust some things once again because it really has gotten out of control with some of the sets that are around that you can build infinite resource builds, infinite block builds, roll dodge, etc and the only way we have to counter some things was something terrible added to the game known as resource poisons which also funnels the player into playing and building some of these builds. And since we also now have jewerlly avaliable for every set and weapons, you can mix combinations you couldn't before which is also a huge problem for this.

I personally think PvP right now is broken because of just the possible gear combinations that have totally been overlooked and it's to the point that with the amount of champion points we have, it's just completely and utterly broken and players are abusing it because they like it. Sets should not have a chance to proc back any of your sustain in my opinion, or at least very toned down from what it currently is.

So personally, I think gear changes would be the perfect way to adjust some of the issues, lets take a look at some examples:
Desert Rose
(2 items) Adds 1935 Spell Resistance
(3 items) Adds 1064 Max Health
(4 items) Adds 967 Max Magicka
(5 items) When you take damage, you have a 15% chance to recover 2408 Magicka. This effect can occur once every 4 second.

Black Rose
(2 items) Adds 1064 Max Health
(3 items) Adds 967 Max Stamina
(4 items) Adds 967 Max Magicka
(5 items) Increases your Weapon and Spell Damage by 154. Increases the Magicka and Stamina restored from the Constitution passive ability by 40%.

Shroud of the Lich
(2 items) Adds 129 Magicka Recovery
(3 items) Adds 967 Max Magicka
(4 items) Adds 129 Magicka Recovery
(5 items) When you fall below 33% Magicka, increase your Magicka Recovery by 1032 for 20 seconds. This effect can occur once every 1 minute.

Vestments of the Warlock
(2 items) Adds 129 Magicka Recovery
(3 items) Adds 967 Max Magicka
(4 items) Adds 129 Magicka Recovery
(5 items) When you fall below 33% Magicka, restore 9000 Magicka. This effect can occur once every 1 minute.

Withered Hand
(2 items) Adds 129 Magicka Recovery
(3 items) Adds 967 Max Magicka
(4 items) Adds 1002 Max Health
(5 items) When an enemy within 28 meters dies, heal for 1290 Health and gain 1290 Magicka. This effect can occur once every 3 seconds.

Syrabane's Grip
(2 items) Adds 129 Magicka Recovery
(3 items) Adds 129 Spell Damage
(4 items) Adds 967 Max Magicka
(5 items) When you block a Flame, Frost, Shock or Magic Damage ability, you restore 860 Magicka. This effect can occur once every 1 second.

Remember I'm not saying these need to be removed and there are a lot more to list but these are just some of the possible sets that should be looked in to, though I think ZOS need to start thinking about removing sets. But some sets are in need of an overhaul. And players are just using it cause it's there.

And you wonder why pve'ers are always blaming pvpers for *** up the other 80% of the game? Well, here you go. -.-

SanTii.92 · March 2017

Nifty2g wrote: »

Lets be honest here, removing Warlord and Magician won't exactly do anything for End Game Champion Point cap PvP gameplay, the main issue here is gear. Gear is completely out of control because certain gear have not been adjusted accordingly since our last major gear overhaul which happened long long long ago back in 1.3.1(2014). I believe ZOS needs to go back and adjust some things once again because it really has gotten out of control with some of the sets that are around that you can build infinite resource builds, infinite block builds, roll dodge, etc and the only way we have to counter some things was something terrible added to the game known as resource poisons which also funnels the player into playing and building some of these builds. And since we also now have jewerlly avaliable for every set and weapons, you can mix combinations you couldn't before which is also a huge problem for this.

You can nerf all the sets you want, but it will always be possible to infinite sustain if desired, because there are multiple ways to compromise other stats for it. I'm not sure why you think adjusting gear instead of cp would be more effective?

I do agree tho that we need a thoughtful gear overhaul, but that's mainly cause many are just too weak, or not unique enough but have little to do with cp rebalance.

Nifty2g · March 2017

SanTii.92 wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

Lets be honest here, removing Warlord and Magician won't exactly do anything for End Game Champion Point cap PvP gameplay, the main issue here is gear. Gear is completely out of control because certain gear have not been adjusted accordingly since our last major gear overhaul which happened long long long ago back in 1.3.1(2014). I believe ZOS needs to go back and adjust some things once again because it really has gotten out of control with some of the sets that are around that you can build infinite resource builds, infinite block builds, roll dodge, etc and the only way we have to counter some things was something terrible added to the game known as resource poisons which also funnels the player into playing and building some of these builds. And since we also now have jewerlly avaliable for every set and weapons, you can mix combinations you couldn't before which is also a huge problem for this.

You can nerf all the sets you want, but it will always be possible to infinite sustain if desired, because there are multiple ways to compromise other stats for it. I'm not sure why you think adjusting gear instead of cp would be more effective?

I do agree tho that we need a thoughtful gear overhaul, but that's mainly cause many are just too weak, or not unique enough but have little to do with cp rebalance.

Because during the no cp event it showed these sets are still over performing. How would adjusting cp be more effective if even without them the issue persists?

JinMori · March 2017

Sets that allows to one shot people through procs should be reworked in pvp.

SanTii.92 · March 2017

Nifty2g wrote: »

SanTii.92 wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

Lets be honest here, removing Warlord and Magician won't exactly do anything for End Game Champion Point cap PvP gameplay, the main issue here is gear. Gear is completely out of control because certain gear have not been adjusted accordingly since our last major gear overhaul which happened long long long ago back in 1.3.1(2014). I believe ZOS needs to go back and adjust some things once again because it really has gotten out of control with some of the sets that are around that you can build infinite resource builds, infinite block builds, roll dodge, etc and the only way we have to counter some things was something terrible added to the game known as resource poisons which also funnels the player into playing and building some of these builds. And since we also now have jewerlly avaliable for every set and weapons, you can mix combinations you couldn't before which is also a huge problem for this.

You can nerf all the sets you want, but it will always be possible to infinite sustain if desired, because there are multiple ways to compromise other stats for it. I'm not sure why you think adjusting gear instead of cp would be more effective?

I do agree tho that we need a thoughtful gear overhaul, but that's mainly cause many are just too weak, or not unique enough but have little to do with cp rebalance.

Because during the no cp event it showed these sets are still over performing. How would adjusting cp be more effective if even without them the issue persists?

In no cp sets overperform simply because they are overpowered, but it's not tied to the sustain sets. If you are building an infinite sustain char in no cp your dps will definetly be much lower than in a cp campaign, which is the point of the cp nerf.

Nifty2g · March 2017

SanTii.92 wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

SanTii.92 wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

Lets be honest here, removing Warlord and Magician won't exactly do anything for End Game Champion Point cap PvP gameplay, the main issue here is gear. Gear is completely out of control because certain gear have not been adjusted accordingly since our last major gear overhaul which happened long long long ago back in 1.3.1(2014). I believe ZOS needs to go back and adjust some things once again because it really has gotten out of control with some of the sets that are around that you can build infinite resource builds, infinite block builds, roll dodge, etc and the only way we have to counter some things was something terrible added to the game known as resource poisons which also funnels the player into playing and building some of these builds. And since we also now have jewerlly avaliable for every set and weapons, you can mix combinations you couldn't before which is also a huge problem for this.

You can nerf all the sets you want, but it will always be possible to infinite sustain if desired, because there are multiple ways to compromise other stats for it. I'm not sure why you think adjusting gear instead of cp would be more effective?

I do agree tho that we need a thoughtful gear overhaul, but that's mainly cause many are just too weak, or not unique enough but have little to do with cp rebalance.

Because during the no cp event it showed these sets are still over performing. How would adjusting cp be more effective if even without them the issue persists?

In no cp sets overperform simply because they are overpowered, but it's not tied to the sustain sets. If you are building an infinite sustain char in no cp your dps will definetly be much lower than in a cp campaign, which is the point of the cp nerf.

You can pretty much combine these sets and run some specific things so you will not lose damage, do you really think you run regen glyphs with a combo of black rose + syrabane + bloodspawn on a dragonknight. What?

SanTii.92 · March 2017

Nifty2g wrote: »

SanTii.92 wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

SanTii.92 wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

Lets be honest here, removing Warlord and Magician won't exactly do anything for End Game Champion Point cap PvP gameplay, the main issue here is gear. Gear is completely out of control because certain gear have not been adjusted accordingly since our last major gear overhaul which happened long long long ago back in 1.3.1(2014). I believe ZOS needs to go back and adjust some things once again because it really has gotten out of control with some of the sets that are around that you can build infinite resource builds, infinite block builds, roll dodge, etc and the only way we have to counter some things was something terrible added to the game known as resource poisons which also funnels the player into playing and building some of these builds. And since we also now have jewerlly avaliable for every set and weapons, you can mix combinations you couldn't before which is also a huge problem for this.

You can nerf all the sets you want, but it will always be possible to infinite sustain if desired, because there are multiple ways to compromise other stats for it. I'm not sure why you think adjusting gear instead of cp would be more effective?

I do agree tho that we need a thoughtful gear overhaul, but that's mainly cause many are just too weak, or not unique enough but have little to do with cp rebalance.

Because during the no cp event it showed these sets are still over performing. How would adjusting cp be more effective if even without them the issue persists?

In no cp sets overperform simply because they are overpowered, but it's not tied to the sustain sets. If you are building an infinite sustain char in no cp your dps will definetly be much lower than in a cp campaign, which is the point of the cp nerf.

You can pretty much combine these sets and run some specific things so you will not lose damage, do you really think you run regen glyphs with a combo of black rose + syrabane + bloodspawn on a dragonknight. What?

I really don't get what you are saying. You will always lose dmge at the expense of more sustain, could be more, could be less but you always do.

On no cp, even tho infinite sustain builds are still possible (always will be, hold heavy resto = infinite sustain at the cost of all dps) the dps or tankyness sacrifice for it is quite noticeable.

Nerfing cp sustain will have a similar impact, with less dev work than a gear overwhole, which agreed is needed, but not mainly cause of issues with sustain builds, but for more diversity and because many are just plain useless.

Nifty2g · March 2017

SanTii.92 wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

SanTii.92 wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

SanTii.92 wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

Lets be honest here, removing Warlord and Magician won't exactly do anything for End Game Champion Point cap PvP gameplay, the main issue here is gear. Gear is completely out of control because certain gear have not been adjusted accordingly since our last major gear overhaul which happened long long long ago back in 1.3.1(2014). I believe ZOS needs to go back and adjust some things once again because it really has gotten out of control with some of the sets that are around that you can build infinite resource builds, infinite block builds, roll dodge, etc and the only way we have to counter some things was something terrible added to the game known as resource poisons which also funnels the player into playing and building some of these builds. And since we also now have jewerlly avaliable for every set and weapons, you can mix combinations you couldn't before which is also a huge problem for this.

You can nerf all the sets you want, but it will always be possible to infinite sustain if desired, because there are multiple ways to compromise other stats for it. I'm not sure why you think adjusting gear instead of cp would be more effective?

I do agree tho that we need a thoughtful gear overhaul, but that's mainly cause many are just too weak, or not unique enough but have little to do with cp rebalance.

Because during the no cp event it showed these sets are still over performing. How would adjusting cp be more effective if even without them the issue persists?

In no cp sets overperform simply because they are overpowered, but it's not tied to the sustain sets. If you are building an infinite sustain char in no cp your dps will definetly be much lower than in a cp campaign, which is the point of the cp nerf.

You can pretty much combine these sets and run some specific things so you will not lose damage, do you really think you run regen glyphs with a combo of black rose + syrabane + bloodspawn on a dragonknight. What?

I really don't get what you are saying. You will always lose dmge at the expense of more sustain, could be more, could be less but you always do.

On no cp, even tho infinite sustain builds are still possible (always will be, hold heavy resto = infinite sustain at the cost of all dps) the dps or tankyness sacrifice for it is quite noticeable.

Nerfing cp sustain will have a similar impact, with less dev work than a gear overwhole, which agreed is needed, agreed, but not mainly cause of issues with sustain builds, but for more diversity and because many are just plain useless.

You do realise, playing glass cannon builds isn't exactly the best choice... right? And you do realise that even with these gear choices you will not be weak?

Savos_Saren · March 2017

I honestly think that ZoS should keep all the gear and add new sets. I'd much rather see too many choices than too few choices!!!

Also, if you have a ton of options- it blurs the definitive "meta" builds. Uber-high DPS, amazing heals/tankiness comes from personalized set theorycrafting and skill.

It's more in-line with ZoS's "play as you want" ideals.

austinwalter87ub17_ESO · March 2017

Literally non of the sets listed by the OP are overpowered. They're situational or supplement people's builds.

Desert Rose got nerfed hard. It's a decent/subpar set now.

Black Rose is good but you give up numerous things to run it.

Both sets only aid you when taking damage.

Defensive Proc sets and sustain aren't the issue in ESO PVP. The issue is being able to combine insane damage with insane sustain. There is no trade off. Personally sets like Desert/Black Rose are what more sets should aspire to be. Defensively rewarding. Armor is meant to protect you. It shouldn't be dealing damage.

SneaK · March 2017

clv wrote: »

Here's the thing. You said a "pupper is a doggo."
Is it in the same family? Yes. No one's arguing that.
As someone who is a scientist who studies puppers, doggos, yappers, and even woofers, I am telling you, specifically, in doggology, no one calls puppers doggos. If you want to be "specific" like you said, then you shouldn't either. They're not the same thing.
If you're saying "doggo family" you're referring to the taxonomic grouping of Doggodaemous, which includes things from sub woofers to birdos to sharkos (the glub glub kind not the bork bork kind).
So your reasoning for calling a pupper a doggo is because random people "call the small yip yip ones doggos?" Let's get penguos and turkos in there, then, too.
Also, calling someone a human or an ape? It's not one or the other, that's not how taxonomy works. They're both. A pupper is a pupper and a member of the doggo family. But that's not what you said. You said a pupper is a doggo, which is not true unless you're okay with calling all members of the doggo family doggos, which means you'd call piggos, sluggos, and other species doggos, too. Which you said you don't.
It's okay to just admit you're wrong, you know?

Well, I thought this was hilarious.