ZOS need to start considering removing/changing sets

Nifty2g · March 2017

Lets be honest here, removing Warlord and Magician won't exactly do anything for End Game Champion Point cap PvP gameplay, the main issue here is gear. Gear is completely out of control because certain gear have not been adjusted accordingly since our last major gear overhaul which happened long long long ago back in 1.3.1(2014). I believe ZOS needs to go back and adjust some things once again because it really has gotten out of control with some of the sets that are around that you can build infinite resource builds, infinite block builds, roll dodge, etc and the only way we have to counter some things was something terrible added to the game known as resource poisons which also funnels the player into playing and building some of these builds. And since we also now have jewerlly avaliable for every set and weapons, you can mix combinations you couldn't before which is also a huge problem for this.

I personally think PvP right now is broken because of just the possible gear combinations that have totally been overlooked and it's to the point that with the amount of champion points we have, it's just completely and utterly broken and players are abusing it because they like it. Sets should not have a chance to proc back any of your sustain in my opinion, or at least very toned down from what it currently is.

So personally, I think gear changes would be the perfect way to adjust some of the issues, lets take a look at some examples:

Desert Rose
(2 items) Adds 1935 Spell Resistance
(3 items) Adds 1064 Max Health
(4 items) Adds 967 Max Magicka
(5 items) When you take damage, you have a 15% chance to recover 2408 Magicka. This effect can occur once every 4 second.

Black Rose
(2 items) Adds 1064 Max Health
(3 items) Adds 967 Max Stamina
(4 items) Adds 967 Max Magicka
(5 items) Increases your Weapon and Spell Damage by 154. Increases the Magicka and Stamina restored from the Constitution passive ability by 40%.

Shroud of the Lich
(2 items) Adds 129 Magicka Recovery
(3 items) Adds 967 Max Magicka
(4 items) Adds 129 Magicka Recovery
(5 items) When you fall below 33% Magicka, increase your Magicka Recovery by 1032 for 20 seconds. This effect can occur once every 1 minute.

Vestments of the Warlock
(2 items) Adds 129 Magicka Recovery
(3 items) Adds 967 Max Magicka
(4 items) Adds 129 Magicka Recovery
(5 items) When you fall below 33% Magicka, restore 9000 Magicka. This effect can occur once every 1 minute.

Withered Hand
(2 items) Adds 129 Magicka Recovery
(3 items) Adds 967 Max Magicka
(4 items) Adds 1002 Max Health
(5 items) When an enemy within 28 meters dies, heal for 1290 Health and gain 1290 Magicka. This effect can occur once every 3 seconds.

Syrabane's Grip
(2 items) Adds 129 Magicka Recovery
(3 items) Adds 129 Spell Damage
(4 items) Adds 967 Max Magicka
(5 items) When you block a Flame, Frost, Shock or Magic Damage ability, you restore 860 Magicka. This effect can occur once every 1 second.

Remember I'm not saying these need to be removed and there are a lot more to list but these are just some of the possible sets that should be looked in to, though I think ZOS need to start thinking about removing sets. But some sets are in need of an overhaul. And players are just using it cause it's there.

Turelus · March 2017

First no gear should be removed, more options are good.

Second I think a lot of the issues with ESO meta comes from many sources, they just need to keep working on it .

The CP changes are a start by moving some of the resource management out of CP and back into gear/skills.

Nifty2g · March 2017

Turelus wrote: »

First no gear should be removed, more options are good.

Second I think a lot of the issues with ESO meta comes from many sources, they just need to keep working on it .

The CP changes are a start by moving some of the resource management out of CP and back into gear/skills.

I disagree. With some combinations here you can sustain even without CP which was shown during the no CP event.
Some of the gear is quite outdated and really is in need of a change.
I don't understand why you are saying put the sustain back into skills/gear when the end goal is to tone down sustain which really is coming from sets. Did you ever try to combine Black Rose with Syrabane? Like I said, you like it because it's broken.

Options are good I agree, but when you have 3 of the same sets doing basically the same thing with a different name/effect, you have a problem with balance.
How many sets do we have in ESO at the moment? Have to be close to 200? Maybe removing some would be a good choice to remove some of the useless lag too.

And I didn't say that they have to be removed, toning some sets down to accommodate the Champion Points now + in the future, might be worth looking in to

clv · March 2017

Turelus wrote: »

First no gear should be removed, more options are good.

Second I think a lot of the issues with ESO meta comes from many sources, they just need to keep working on it .

The CP changes are a start by moving some of the resource management out of CP and back into gear/skills.

Here's the thing. You said a "pupper is a doggo."
Is it in the same family? Yes. No one's arguing that.
As someone who is a scientist who studies puppers, doggos, yappers, and even woofers, I am telling you, specifically, in doggology, no one calls puppers doggos. If you want to be "specific" like you said, then you shouldn't either. They're not the same thing.
If you're saying "doggo family" you're referring to the taxonomic grouping of Doggodaemous, which includes things from sub woofers to birdos to sharkos (the glub glub kind not the bork bork kind).
So your reasoning for calling a pupper a doggo is because random people "call the small yip yip ones doggos?" Let's get penguos and turkos in there, then, too.
Also, calling someone a human or an ape? It's not one or the other, that's not how taxonomy works. They're both. A pupper is a pupper and a member of the doggo family. But that's not what you said. You said a pupper is a doggo, which is not true unless you're okay with calling all members of the doggo family doggos, which means you'd call piggos, sluggos, and other species doggos, too. Which you said you don't.
It's okay to just admit you're wrong, you know?

Turelus · March 2017

Nifty2g wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

First no gear should be removed, more options are good.

Second I think a lot of the issues with ESO meta comes from many sources, they just need to keep working on it .

The CP changes are a start by moving some of the resource management out of CP and back into gear/skills.

I disagree. With some combinations here you can sustain even without CP which was shown during the no CP event.
Some of the gear is quite outdated and really is in need of a change.
I don't understand why you are saying put the sustain back into skills/gear when the end goal is to tone down sustain which really is coming from sets. Did you ever try to combine Black Rose with Syrabane? Like I said, you like it because it's broken.

Options are good I agree, but when you have 3 of the same sets doing basically the same thing with a different name/effect, you have a problem with balance.
How many sets do we have in ESO at the moment? Have to be close to 200? Maybe removing some would be a good choice to remove some of the useless lag too.

That sustain comes at the cost of damage though when you place it on the sets. You'd need more sets with regen which means less on damage and max stat.

Granted there is room for more balance to be done (which is why I said they just need to keep it up).

Nifty2g · March 2017

Turelus wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

First no gear should be removed, more options are good.

Second I think a lot of the issues with ESO meta comes from many sources, they just need to keep working on it .

The CP changes are a start by moving some of the resource management out of CP and back into gear/skills.

I disagree. With some combinations here you can sustain even without CP which was shown during the no CP event.
Some of the gear is quite outdated and really is in need of a change.
I don't understand why you are saying put the sustain back into skills/gear when the end goal is to tone down sustain which really is coming from sets. Did you ever try to combine Black Rose with Syrabane? Like I said, you like it because it's broken.

Options are good I agree, but when you have 3 of the same sets doing basically the same thing with a different name/effect, you have a problem with balance.
How many sets do we have in ESO at the moment? Have to be close to 200? Maybe removing some would be a good choice to remove some of the useless lag too.

That sustain comes at the cost of damage though when you place it on the sets. You'd need more sets with regen which means less on damage and max stat.

Granted there is room for more balance to be done (which is why I said they just need to keep it up).

With sets like these you are able to pin a target down and drain resources and also run damage glyphs and change your mundus stone ontop of certain champion point set ups.
You most certainly do not hit weak with these sets, some of them even come with a damage bonus

Gal · March 2017

@Nifty2g What would that do to all the different builds you can use? that would severely limit peoples choices for how they want to play which is extremely unfair and limiting on the freedom of the game. Yes people can use those sets to permablock or breath of life spam, but there are ways to counter that now. Stamplars and magplars have both versions of the skill "backlash" which deals unblockable damage to a target, and resource poisons/negates/major defile is a great way to counter breath of life spammers.

However, I do agree that removing sustain CP from the trees is unwise and adversely affects the pve community who have to fully dedicate themselves to excelling in one specific niche, be it healing dps or tanking. removing sustain CP would force all classes to start wearing the same or similar armor just to keep resources. This is already a problem for dps as both magicka and stamina DD's are wearing either BSW or TFS with moon or VO.

If a change is to be made, then every set needs to be looked at and changed to be unique and useful in some way. Even if it involves making some gear sets class specific.

Nifty2g · March 2017

Gal wrote: »

@Nifty2g What would that do to all the different builds you can use? that would severely limit peoples choices for how they want to play which is extremely unfair and limiting on the freedom of the game. Yes people can use those sets to permablock or breath of life spam, but there are ways to counter that now.

It's not about being able to counter it, ZOS has said themselves they do not like the idea of infinite sustain, and it truly comes down to the amount of gear set options available that pretty much do the same thing but with different effects. You can combine those which yes is freedom of choice of course but also very damaging as well.
Perhaps remove some to add some sort of boundary for players who want to purely deal damage with infinite sustain, because really that's not too engaging.

It's not all about being able to counter permablock or breath of life spammers.

Turelus · March 2017

Nifty2g wrote: »

Gal wrote: »

@Nifty2g What would that do to all the different builds you can use? that would severely limit peoples choices for how they want to play which is extremely unfair and limiting on the freedom of the game. Yes people can use those sets to permablock or breath of life spam, but there are ways to counter that now.

It's not about being able to counter it, ZOS has said themselves they do not like the idea of infinite sustain, and it truly comes down to the amount of gear set options available that pretty much do the same thing but with different effects. You can combine those which yes is freedom of choice of course but also very damaging as well.
Perhaps remove some to add some sort of boundary for players who want to purely deal damage with infinite sustain, because really that's not too engaging.

It's not all about being able to counter permablock or breath of life spammers.

But if they do this right and keep moving to make changes then this will work better.

Right now because of the CP you can wear sets which are full Crit/Dmg/Stat and never need regen on your gear. If they keep pushing changes which cut the sustain bonus from CP it will force some gear to be changed to require regen/cost reduction.

If the CP changes alone are not good enough they can start looking at other areas to make adjustments (and I am sure they will) but until we see the CP changes in full with Morrowind (they said on ESO Live this is still WIP) then we won't know how effective they are.

Nifty2g · March 2017

Turelus wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

Gal wrote: »

@Nifty2g What would that do to all the different builds you can use? that would severely limit peoples choices for how they want to play which is extremely unfair and limiting on the freedom of the game. Yes people can use those sets to permablock or breath of life spam, but there are ways to counter that now.

It's not about being able to counter it, ZOS has said themselves they do not like the idea of infinite sustain, and it truly comes down to the amount of gear set options available that pretty much do the same thing but with different effects. You can combine those which yes is freedom of choice of course but also very damaging as well.
Perhaps remove some to add some sort of boundary for players who want to purely deal damage with infinite sustain, because really that's not too engaging.

It's not all about being able to counter permablock or breath of life spammers.

Right now because of the CP you can wear sets which are full Crit/Dmg/Stat and never need regen on your gear. If they keep pushing changes which cut the sustain bonus from CP it will force some gear to be changed to require regen/cost reduction.

In PvE or PvP?

PvE you have someone dedicated to watching your resources which is why, if you do not have that person you will run out of resources within 30 seconds. Removing CP to lower your sustain is an awful streamline nerf to lower your damage. Especially with how current mechanics are in PvE, you will just get snowballed.

Turelus wrote: »

If the CP changes alone are not good enough they can start looking at other areas to make adjustments (and I am sure they will) but until we see the CP changes in full with Morrowind (they said on ESO Live this is still WIP) then we won't know how effective they are.

Honestly you got a glimpse of what it was like in PvP (which is the main issue) with the no Champion Point event, that's probably the best test you can get in current without changes. There was still issues, you could still infinitely sustain with these sets. I'm sure that's enough evidence?

You can still sustain in PvE too, this would just be a way to streamline your damage in PvE while also giving you better sustain than before because you are running sets that actually sustain you along with your healers giving you sustain. So really, for PvE it's an inevitable nerf to damage, but we're not talking about that right now, that's a different topic.

Bobby_V_Rockit · March 2017

But we have yet to see what they do to the other stars in the CP trees... might balance itself out

Nifty2g · March 2017

Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »

But we have yet to see what they do to the other stars in the CP trees... might balance itself out

What do you mean? With this gear your resources are totally fine with or without CP, that's what the issue is.

Gal · March 2017

@Bobby_V_Rockit so you're saying that zos is going to add those cp passives back into a different colour tree?

Magdalina · March 2017

I'm confused. Where are your screenshots from? I'm pretty sure they nerfed Desert Rose to 4 second cooldown in Homedstead, which did make a lot of people drop it for other sets. The Black Rose one also seems outdated because they changed one of the bonuses to magicka instead of stamina in the same patch.

The_Undefined · March 2017

Removing sets is just a nerf. There should be less nerfing and more balance, but I'm also pretty salty with how they're adjusting other content, so maybe my opinion isn't the best atm. XD

Turelus · March 2017

The_Undefined wrote: »

We just need a token system. The more variety isn't what's killing the armor system, it's the lack of real player control / choice.

I disagree. Token system doesn't fix anything other than letting people get the one or two good sets faster.

There will always be FOTM builds and sets, but there needs to be something which makes reg/stat/other sets and traits appealing compared to dmg/crit/divines.

The_Undefined · March 2017

Turelus wrote: »

The_Undefined wrote: »

We just need a token system. The more variety isn't what's killing the armor system, it's the lack of real player control / choice.

I disagree. Token system doesn't fix anything other than letting people get the one or two good sets faster.

There will always be FOTM builds and sets, but there needs to be something which makes reg/stat/other sets and traits appealing compared to dmg/crit/divines.

Lol, sorry, I adjusted my comment. I totally meant that for another thought. XD

Gal · March 2017

@The_Undefined This has nothing to do with a token system lol, its the fact that certain gear sets are almost copy/pasted onto other sets and many of them are extremely outdated and haven't been adjusted to stay balanced whereas other sets are absolutely useless and only serve to take up space in the game. The last I want is a token system that gives me pieces of the crusader armor set.

Gal · March 2017

Sustain in the CP trees, in my honest opinion shouldn't be altered at this point in time. As it stands, sustain in trials is largely dependent on your healers, not on the gear a DD is wearing. If your healers don't know how to do their job, you will OOM quite quickly. With the CP cap being raised to 600, we have just enough to cap out the cost reduction tree and the magicka regeneration tree which means when the CP cap is increased again, we wont gain any more sustain benefits for our main damage dealing resource.

What is actually a problem, is that players are able to stack two sets that are extremely similar and use them to have an infinite pool of resources in Cyrodill regardless of CP as the OP has pointed out earlier.

Also, @Turelus other traits are desirable. People wear inpen and sturdy on tanky builds in cyrodill, Healers wear infused, tanks wear a variety of defending infused decisive reinforced sturdy and divines, and dps focus on one specific thing, damage which with the strength of crit and armor pen, means that divines and sharpened are currently strongest traits for them, but that has changed in the past. DD's used to wear some infused pieces with nirnhoned weapons, which leads me to believe that the dps meta will change again in the future.

Nifty2g · March 2017

Turelus wrote: »

The_Undefined wrote: »

We just need a token system. The more variety isn't what's killing the armor system, it's the lack of real player control / choice.

I disagree. Token system doesn't fix anything other than letting people get the one or two good sets faster.

There will always be FOTM builds and sets, but there needs to be something which makes reg/stat/other sets and traits appealing compared to dmg/crit/divines.

In PvE, I don't see how regen/reduced cost sets will ever look viable when you have roles dedicated to making your sustain better unless you remove skills. This is also because of damage and how health is currently. Just wont fit in with the style of the game. You are asking for a total revamp of that whole system, which I don't think is a good idea, took awhile to get to the point where we are at to just start over again like that instead of just removing something which fixes it quite easily in my opinion.

As for Regen and stat bonuses, those are already incredibly viable in PvP and are being abused with set combinations, so I don't get what your point is lol

Nifty2g · March 2017

Magdalina wrote: »

I'm confused. Where are your screenshots from? I'm pretty sure they nerfed Desert Rose to 4 second cooldown in Homedstead, which did make a lot of people drop it for other sets. The Black Rose one also seems outdated because they changed one of the bonuses to magicka instead of stamina in the same patch.

Ah yeah, I changed it.
As for desert rose, it's still powerful and being used.

STEVIL · March 2017

Nifty2g wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

First no gear should be removed, more options are good.

Second I think a lot of the issues with ESO meta comes from many sources, they just need to keep working on it .

The CP changes are a start by moving some of the resource management out of CP and back into gear/skills.

I disagree. With some combinations here you can sustain even without CP which was shown during the no CP event.
Some of the gear is quite outdated and really is in need of a change.
I don't understand why you are saying put the sustain back into skills/gear when the end goal is to tone down sustain which really is coming from sets. Did you ever try to combine Black Rose with Syrabane? Like I said, you like it because it's broken.

Options are good I agree, but when you have 3 of the same sets doing basically the same thing with a different name/effect, you have a problem with balance.
How many sets do we have in ESO at the moment? Have to be close to 200? Maybe removing some would be a good choice to remove some of the useless lag too.

That sustain comes at the cost of damage though when you place it on the sets. You'd need more sets with regen which means less on damage and max stat.

Granted there is room for more balance to be done (which is why I said they just need to keep it up).

With sets like these you are able to pin a target down and drain resources and also run damage glyphs and change your mundus stone ontop of certain champion point set ups.
You most certainly do not hit weak with these sets, some of them even come with a damage bonus

The key thing tho is that you do give up damage vs having all damage sets. having one slot being increase spell damage or increase magica or even two is not the top end. The top end for damage is all being additive to damage either thru spell damage, spell crit, penetration or procs (or maybe two in the 2-3-4 and then a good 5pc one as well.)

There is no reason there cannot be or should not be all sustain sets or mostly sustain sets or split sustain and damage sets to allow for the variety of ways a character can be built to intentionally balance or imbalance sustain vs damage.

Consider for jewel glyphs/enchants you are not prevented from having all damage boost, all sustain boost or any combination in between. that doesn't break things, it just gives you options for how you reach the balance/imbalance point you prefer.

Same with sustain sets.

The problem with the Cp as they were is that there was no real trade-off between damage and sustain due to in part the placement. While removing them is one option (as a part of a broader overall package) another would have been to reshuffle those trees to put the major sustains in the same regions as all the damage options. Had all the various damage boosters and both the regen and costs been in the same color triad of constellations, stamina in another, health in another and each had a third utility cluster - there would have been more trade-off as well.

But the character who slots warlock for 5 pcs instead both burning spellweave or spinners (keeping one of these) is clearly trading damage for sustain - and that is the goal.

Nifty2g · March 2017

STEVIL wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

First no gear should be removed, more options are good.

Second I think a lot of the issues with ESO meta comes from many sources, they just need to keep working on it .

The CP changes are a start by moving some of the resource management out of CP and back into gear/skills.

I disagree. With some combinations here you can sustain even without CP which was shown during the no CP event.
Some of the gear is quite outdated and really is in need of a change.
I don't understand why you are saying put the sustain back into skills/gear when the end goal is to tone down sustain which really is coming from sets. Did you ever try to combine Black Rose with Syrabane? Like I said, you like it because it's broken.

Options are good I agree, but when you have 3 of the same sets doing basically the same thing with a different name/effect, you have a problem with balance.
How many sets do we have in ESO at the moment? Have to be close to 200? Maybe removing some would be a good choice to remove some of the useless lag too.

That sustain comes at the cost of damage though when you place it on the sets. You'd need more sets with regen which means less on damage and max stat.

Granted there is room for more balance to be done (which is why I said they just need to keep it up).

With sets like these you are able to pin a target down and drain resources and also run damage glyphs and change your mundus stone ontop of certain champion point set ups.
You most certainly do not hit weak with these sets, some of them even come with a damage bonus

The key thing tho is that you do give up damage vs having all damage sets. having one slot being increase spell damage or increase magica or even two is not the top end. The top end for damage is all being additive to damage either thru spell damage, spell crit, penetration or procs (or maybe two in the 2-3-4 and then a good 5pc one as well.)

There is no reason there cannot be or should not be all sustain sets or mostly sustain sets or split sustain and damage sets to allow for the variety of ways a character can be built to intentionally balance or imbalance sustain vs damage.

Consider for jewel glyphs/enchants you are not prevented from having all damage boost, all sustain boost or any combination in between. that doesn't break things, it just gives you options for how you reach the balance/imbalance point you prefer.

Same with sustain sets.

The problem with the Cp as they were is that there was no real trade-off between damage and sustain due to in part the placement. While removing them is one option (as a part of a broader overall package) another would have been to reshuffle those trees to put the major sustains in the same regions as all the damage options. Had all the various damage boosters and both the regen and costs been in the same color triad of constellations, stamina in another, health in another and each had a third utility cluster - there would have been more trade-off as well.

But the character who slots warlock for 5 pcs instead both burning spellweave or spinners (keeping one of these) is clearly trading damage for sustain - and that is the goal.

I did not say remove or change all sustain sets. I said some need to be changed due to the combinations you can make. At this point with the almost 200 sets we have (maybe more I havent counted) there are 2-3 sometimes 4 sets of sets that do the same thing pretty much in either light, medium or heavy that come in every armor type, jewellery type and weapon sets. Freedom of choice to build is fine and you should have some options but why have copies of sets that you can abuse with or without your champion system.

And as I mentioned I don't think ZOS are going to redo their damage at this time to account for the nerf you will get to your damage if they remove the CP sustains which will pigeonhole the player base into taking regen sets which will ultimately remove your freedom of build choice. So really, removing/changing some sets around is the good choice in the long run.

Turelus · March 2017

OP I think you also need to inform everyone with some case examples of what you're seeing needs to change.

Is this because of super sustain/tank builds in PvP, is this because of infinite resources in PvE?

Tommy_The_Gun · March 2017

Nifty2g wrote: »

As Rich once said in regards to Dynamic Ultimate gain "You like it because it's broken"

Lets be honest here, removing Warlord and Magician won't exactly do anything for End Game Champion Point cap PvP gameplay, the main issue here is gear. Gear is completely out of control because certain gear have not been adjusted accordingly since our last major gear overhaul which happened long long long ago back in 1.3.1(2014). I believe ZOS needs to go back and adjust some things once again because it really has gotten out of control with some of the sets that are around that you can build infinite resource builds, infinite block builds, roll dodge, etc and the only way we have to counter some things was something terrible added to the game known as resource poisons which also funnels the player into playing and building some of these builds. And since we also now have jewerlly avaliable for every set and weapons, you can mix combinations you couldn't before which is also a huge problem for this.

I personally think PvP right now is broken because of just the possible gear combinations that have totally been overlooked and it's to the point that with the amount of champion points we have, it's just completely and utterly broken and players are abusing it because they like it. Sets should not have a chance to proc back any of your sustain in my opinion, or at least very toned down from what it currently is.

So personally, I think gear changes would be the perfect way to adjust some of the issues, lets take a look at some examples:
Desert Rose
(2 items) Adds 1935 Spell Resistance
(3 items) Adds 1064 Max Health
(4 items) Adds 967 Max Magicka
(5 items) When you take damage, you have a 15% chance to recover 2408 Magicka. This effect can occur once every 4 second.

Black Rose
(2 items) Adds 1064 Max Health
(3 items) Adds 967 Max Stamina
(4 items) Adds 967 Max Magicka
(5 items) Increases your Weapon and Spell Damage by 154. Increases the Magicka and Stamina restored from the Constitution passive ability by 40%.

Shroud of the Lich
(2 items) Adds 129 Magicka Recovery
(3 items) Adds 967 Max Magicka
(4 items) Adds 129 Magicka Recovery
(5 items) When you fall below 33% Magicka, increase your Magicka Recovery by 1032 for 20 seconds. This effect can occur once every 1 minute.

Vestments of the Warlock
(2 items) Adds 129 Magicka Recovery
(3 items) Adds 967 Max Magicka
(4 items) Adds 129 Magicka Recovery
(5 items) When you fall below 33% Magicka, restore 9000 Magicka. This effect can occur once every 1 minute.

Withered Hand
(2 items) Adds 129 Magicka Recovery
(3 items) Adds 967 Max Magicka
(4 items) Adds 1002 Max Health
(5 items) When an enemy within 28 meters dies, heal for 1290 Health and gain 1290 Magicka. This effect can occur once every 3 seconds.

Syrabane's Grip
(2 items) Adds 129 Magicka Recovery
(3 items) Adds 129 Spell Damage
(4 items) Adds 967 Max Magicka
(5 items) When you block a Flame, Frost, Shock or Magic Damage ability, you restore 860 Magicka. This effect can occur once every 1 second.

Remember I'm not saying these need to be removed and there are a lot more to list but these are just some of the possible sets that should be looked in to, though I think ZOS need to start thinking about removing sets. But some sets are in need of an overhaul. And players are just using it cause it's there.

I totally agree with you. ESO is one of these games where your "gear" dictates about 90% of what your character is capable of doing. Removing/rebalancing CP points won't do much good - because now good gear will be even more relevant...

btw. Unfortunately with the introduction of new content we see ZOS adding more and more OP gear. I would not be surprised if they will add some super power creep OP crafted sets with Morrowind...just to force more people to buy this new content...

Nifty2g · March 2017

Turelus wrote: »

OP I think you also need to inform everyone with some case examples of what you're seeing needs to change.

Is this because of super sustain/tank builds in PvP, is this because of infinite resources in PvE?

This is because of PvP mostly having access to build a lot of viable infinite resource builds.

In PvE I don't really want to touch on this because it's usually a team effort to get the sustain you want. In a minmax environment your healers are doing a lot for you and creates a good synergy. Remove CP you will remove that aspect of the game, which creates a simplified experience, and also kinda boring.

Brrrofski · March 2017

Magdalina wrote: »

I'm confused. Where are your screenshots from? I'm pretty sure they nerfed Desert Rose to 4 second cooldown in Homedstead, which did make a lot of people drop it for other sets. The Black Rose one also seems outdated because they changed one of the bonuses to magicka instead of stamina in the same patch.

The black rose change actually made sustaining on a stam dk and stam sorc better. That extra magica means more igenous and more dark deal.

OOJIMMY · March 2017

the Cp removal is only going to make most people switch up jewelry enchants to cost reductions I thought.

mafli1 · March 2017

Remove all the existing gear and cp from pvp. implement a few free to get "pvp-only-gear" for every class which affects only the own char. create new content to earn special pvp gear in cyrodiil. pvp gear craft stations would be a thing..

Problems solved:
- Server performance improved
- Skill is more important then gear
- ressource management is a thing
- content that spreads the population on the whole map (performance improved)

STEVIL · March 2017

Nifty2g wrote: »

I did not say remove or change all sustain sets. I said some need to be changed due to the combinations you can make. At this point with the almost 200 sets we have (maybe more I havent counted) there are 2-3 sometimes 4 sets of sets that do the same thing pretty much in either light, medium or heavy that come in every armor type, jewellery type and weapon sets. Freedom of choice to build is fine and you should have some options but why have copies of sets that you can abuse with or without your champion system.

And as I mentioned I don't think ZOS are going to redo their damage at this time to account for the nerf you will get to your damage if they remove the CP sustains which will pigeonhole the player base into taking regen sets which will ultimately remove your freedom of build choice. So really, removing/changing some sets around is the good choice in the long run.

I dont think i have seen sustain sets that can be abused in the way that you describe - particularly after we get some of the champion point changes they describe and the more direct ability to attack sustain.

Can you please identify a couple specific combinations of sets that you find to be abusive under that framework and why you think they are abusive?

STEVIL · March 2017

OOJIMMY wrote: »

the Cp removal is only going to make most people switch up jewelry enchants to cost reductions I thought.

Thats certainly an option and one i expect to see a lot more use but that comes of course at the cost of something like what 522 spell/wpn dmg and even that wont completely make up for losing the full cost reduction % off the cp in many cases.

i suspect you will see a lot of different variations on the theme. Since there are so many places where gear allows this trade-off as opposed to the cp where there was no trade-off required.