murdered NPC loot vs Pickpocket loot.

Tapio75 · March 2017

Hey.

EDIT: Reading many of your comments, i only hear "I want teh loot" in many arguments. However, no matter how you twist it, consequences for murdering someone are meaningless if not totally absent for most players. People make too much gold from murdering and the boubty that careless murders give, are not high enough to make people act more cautiously. Most players can just go about murdering NPC's left and right with getting enough stuff for fences to totally negate the meaning of any bounty they get in the process. Easy loot, money from nothing.. These are what pickpocketing and murdering create. Money from nothing tends to ruin the whole economy of MMO. Furthermore, while many players do not consider NPC's as more than walking containers, this does not mean the walking container should give good loot for murder, murder is easy, blade of woe someone and you get loot easy mode. At least when you pickpocket, there are skill involved in the process and the pickpocket should be the means to get good loot, killing an NPC should give crap.

Furthermore, for many players who are more to playing as character rather than person who just plays for teh stuff. For those of us who do immerse ourselves in to world of Tamriel as characters existing in that world, the massacre of NPC folks is not very immersive as the amount of murder happening is totally out of control. I do like toi play psychotic characters when im angry about something, it is a good way to release some pressure, but i dont think murder as a playstyle should be a playstyle to reserve loot, it should rather be a playstyle to be a murderer, plain and simple. Murder motives are rarely for wealth anyways. Reserve loot for pickpockets who invest skillpoints and personal skill in executing pickpocket correctly and leave murdering for murdering pyschopath, thanks

I think we could get a bit of a change here.. Right now you can actually get pretty good loot at times when you murder an NPC and loot.

I think the more skilled playstyle, pickpocketing should be rewarded better than murder. I think the loot in murder victims should be reduced in quality and worth of what it is now and in turn, second and third pickpocket of same NPC should reward way better than now. Also the "harder" pickpocket marks should reward a bit better by giving more valuable loot.

Personally, i dont think that easy mode/murder should be encouraged. Rather the more skill and planning required pickpocket should be always encouraged as the better option.

People also claim, that if they pickpocket an NPC, the NPC is empty for next player that attempts to pickpoicket. I find this hard to believe as when i pickpocket folks on my own, i never come across an empty NPC, i have even pickpocketed an NPC that was just pickpocketed by my friend and both of us received 3 pickpockets from the target. However.. IF NPC is empty after someone pickpockets it, the system needs to change so that the NPC is not empty for next player. Also, NPC pockets that are emptied, need to reset in same time as it takes for respawn after murtder.

Thing here is, that murder is happening in casual rate as a means to receive loot, not as means to roleplay a murdering character. This needs to change so that item aquisition always happens through pickpocketing and murder is simply a way to roleplay, not as measn to receive good loot. The murdered NPC can have few coins as loot for immersive reasons

Nestor · March 2017

You would think...

Unless you have the Blade of Woe, Murder is harder to get away with. With the BoW, its almost an easy button.

The harder PP are supposed to give better loot. There is some RNG there, but they did kind of revamp the Legerdemain loot for One Tam, so it might have gotten caught up in that. Prior to One Tam, the higher zones gave better loot, and castles and manors were the highest chance for greens and blues. Purples have always been just flat out rare.

WhiteCoatSyndrome · March 2017

Can't you Pickpocket someone more than once? Whereas you can only murder them one time before they respawn. So you're getting double or triple the loot for Pickpocketing.

Tommy_The_Gun · March 2017

The point is - people only murder NPCs when they want them to re-spawn faster with new stuff...

Linaleah · March 2017

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

The point is - people only murder NPCs when they want them to re-spawn faster with new stuff...

this. personaly I pickpocket npc's at least once before murder, usually pickpocket twice, then murder. if i leave that npc alive - they just walk around empty for a while... which can be pretty damn annoying for someone else who comes along and wants to pickpocket them (same applies to when I try to pickpocket an npc, only to realize they have been stripped bare) murdered npc's respawn fairly fast and with full loot again.

Tabbycat · March 2017

I heard somewhere you could pickpocket an NPC three times before they run out of inventory.

idk · March 2017

Tapio75 wrote: »

Hey.

I think we could get a bit of a change here.. Right now you can actually get pretty good loot at times when you murder an NPC and loot.

I think the more skilled playstyle, pickpocketing should be rewarded better than murder. I think the loot in murder victims should be reduced in quality and worth of what it is now and in turn, second and third pickpocket of same NPC should reward way better than now. Also the "harder" pickpocket marks should reward a bit better by giving more valuable loot.

Personally, i dont think that easy mode/murder should be encouraged. Rather the more skill and planning required pickpocket should be always encouraged as the better option.

First pickpocket should offer a higher reward though I do not agree that the second and third times should increase the chances just because the risk is greater. Risk should be based on the initial risk only.

geonsocal · March 2017

doesn't matter whether you murder them, pickpocket them or entice them with your redguard dancing - they carry three items...unless you need them for filling soul gems - the blade of woe is simply the most economical method of unburdening an npc of its loot...

Tapio75 · March 2017

It also looks like, that NPC's need to have the same mechanic that delve bosses got when they were fighting botters back in the moth of launch.

From murdered NPC, loot can be obtained only once a day/NPC.

I dont think irts very good design if one can circumvent pickpocket loot cap by simplu kllling the NPC.

Also, if you pickpocket an NPC even once before killing it, there should be no loot. Knowing the justice systems flaws in consequence side, the murder vs pickpocket scenario now seems to favor combination of pickpocket and killing. Pickpocket should be encpouraged. Leave the murder for those who want to play a murderer

AntMan100673 · March 2017

You can get 3 items off NPC's so I usually pickpocket them twice and then stabby stabby them, that way you get max items and don't leave an empty pocketed NPC wandering around.

Tapio75 · March 2017

Did you know, that the NPC pockets are empty only for you? Even people in the same group can each pickpocket a sigle NPC 3 times.

So when you kill an NPC you have pickpocketed for max loot. You take that NPC away from everyone else who might want to pickpocket them after you. That means that everyone else than the person killing the NPC loses the pickpocket chance for the duration of the respawn time.

And letting NPC live should be the option players are encouraged to pick. For example, the bounty for murder should be considerably higher and pardon edicts should not work on murder victims bounty. Pardon edicts are part of thieves guild anyways and thus, should not cover murder bounty.

Mattock_Romulus · March 2017

Please, do the civil thing and murder the npcs after pick-pocketing. There is no greater insult to a fellow player than leaving penniless npcs wandering around.

waterfairy · March 2017

You can't get housing items from killing npc's with the blade of woe but you can from picpocketing.

Ahzek · March 2017

Vigarr wrote: »

You can't get housing items from killing npc's with the blade of woe but you can from picpocketing.

I have heard people confirm that both pickpocketing and murder can provide housing items.

rotaugen454 · March 2017

Tapio75 wrote: »

Did you know, that the NPC pockets are empty only for you? Even people in the same group can each pickpocket a sigle NPC 3 times.

So when you kill an NPC you have pickpocketed for max loot. You take that NPC away from everyone else who might want to pickpocket them after you. That means that everyone else than the person killing the NPC loses the pickpocket chance for the duration of the respawn time.

And letting NPC live should be the option players are encouraged to pick. For example, the bounty for murder should be considerably higher and pardon edicts should not work on murder victims bounty. Pardon edicts are part of thieves guild anyways and thus, should not cover murder bounty.

Are you sure about that? Unless they have changed it, I would often pickpocket one item and they are empty, or they were empty to begin with, all because someone else got to them first. I haven't done mass daily pickpocketing in a while, switched to stealing from containers.

Aliyavana · March 2017

Tapio75 wrote: »

It also looks like, that NPC's need to have the same mechanic that delve bosses got when they were fighting botters back in the moth of launch.

From murdered NPC, loot can be obtained only once a day/NPC.

I dont think irts very good design if one can circumvent pickpocket loot cap by simplu kllling the NPC.

Also, if you pickpocket an NPC even once before killing it, there should be no loot. Knowing the justice systems flaws in consequence side, the murder vs pickpocket scenario now seems to favor combination of pickpocket and killing. Pickpocket should be encpouraged. Leave the murder for those who want to play a murderer

No, murder has its risks... tho if your smarter less risky than pickpocketing... twice pickpocketing and then blade of woeing for a third item is fast and makes getting the fence 1 mil good worth of items easier... I need about 350k more to get there.

Vigarr wrote: »

You can't get housing items from killing npc's with the blade of woe but you can from picpocketing.

Ahzek wrote: »

Vigarr wrote: »

You can't get housing items from killing npc's with the blade of woe but you can from picpocketing.

I have heard people confirm that both pickpocketing and murder can provide housing items.

I RARELY get house items from murdering but from pickpocketing it feels more common but still rare.

updegramub17_ESO wrote: »

Please, do the civil thing and murder the npcs after pick-pocketing. There is no greater insult to a fellow player than leaving penniless npcs wandering around.

This... I hate when ppl don't reset an npcs pockets

waterfairy · March 2017

Ahzek wrote: »

Vigarr wrote: »

You can't get housing items from killing npc's with the blade of woe but you can from picpocketing.

I have heard people confirm that both pickpocketing and murder can provide housing items.

This may be true as RNG is terrible to me but I murder npc's all the time, both for the DB contracts and for standing in the wrong place...not a single housing item since the update.

Inhuman003 · March 2017

Murder NPC vs pickpocketing NPC option on the pickpocketing you can do it multiple times on murdering one you kill, then the next NPC you kill you receive better loot but it's not the same repeated fashion.

Tapio75 · March 2017

I have hard time beliegveing claims, that other players pickpocketing empties the NPC for other players coming after the first pickpocketer. This weekend, we were happily pickpocketing NPC's with my friend, we both did the thing sometimes even 3 times on same NPC and there were always 3 pickpockets for both of us.

When i am pickpocketing alone, i never run to an NPC that has empty pockets.

Same was with containers. We could both steal from containers and both got stuff that was even completely different from what the other got. I foirr example, have tons of decorative vax and found a container containing it and since i do not have the need for it, i told my friend to loot it. For her, there was apples in the container. For me, there was decorative vax. NPC's seemed to wwork similarly.

IF the NPC pockets are shared for all players (One player empties NPC for all), this needs immediate fixing. Murder for simple loot/reset purpose needs to stop. I am sure there are players who get upset by seeing difital people murdered, just like i get very much aroused by someone killing critters. If someone wants to play a murderer, i am okay with that, but players should not be encouraged to actions that might upset other players. Players were concerned about griefing if PVP was involved as law enforcement option for justice system so it was left out. I think that some players might consider it griefing as well, when someone comes and murders an NPC he/she is talking to at the moment.

Aliyavana · March 2017

Tapio75 wrote: »

I have hard time beliegveing claims, that other players pickpocketing empties the NPC for other players coming after the first pickpocketer. This weekend, we were happily pickpocketing NPC's with my friend, we both did the thing sometimes even 3 times on same NPC and there were always 3 pickpockets for both of us.

When i am pickpocketing alone, i never run to an NPC that has empty pockets.

Same was with containers. We could both steal from containers and both got stuff that was even completely different from what the other got. I foirr example, have tons of decorative vax and found a container containing it and since i do not have the need for it, i told my friend to loot it. For her, there was apples in the container. For me, there was decorative vax. NPC's seemed to wwork similarly.

IF the NPC pockets are shared for all players (One player empties NPC for all), this needs immediate fixing. Murder for simple loot/reset purpose needs to stop. I am sure there are players who get upset by seeing difital people murdered, just like i get very much aroused by someone killing critters. If someone wants to play a murderer, i am okay with that, but players should not be encouraged to actions that might upset other players. Players were concerned about griefing if PVP was involved as law enforcement option for justice system so it was left out. I think that some players might consider it griefing as well, when someone comes and murders an NPC he/she is talking to at the moment.

LOL, there is an achievement tied to murdering 100 npcs, any npc that is able to be murdered is unimportant to character progression... If you or someone else get upset by seeing someone murder someone else get over it, it doesn't disrupt any form of gameplay compared to duelers lagging out other people and annoying them by dueling inside banks. I will go today and the next few months murdering and pickpocketing all the npcs I need to and no form of artificial barrier you want to put in the way of us thieves and achievement hunters will get in our way thank you very much... In a month youll see me with my 1 mil fenced purple and there is nothing you can do to prevent me... get triggered mate

zaria · March 2017

Tabbycat wrote: »

I heard somewhere you could pickpocket an NPC three times before they run out of inventory.

You can, note that passing an load door like enter the thief guild will reset this counter.
Load door as in giving loading screen, doors in houses are not load doors.

Was insanely frustrating then I did the TG quests so an second character could do the heists for the event and people killed the easy pickpocket targets.

IcyDeadPeople · March 2017

Anyone willing to deal with consequences from murder (very high bounty for a long time), should get better reward.

Haven't killed any NPCs lately, but last time it seemed like they drop pretty much the same loot as pickpocketing. Mostly white and green, some blue, and very rarely you get a purple from killing someone. If you want to max out your fence transactions with blue items you have to kill a hell of a lot of NPCs.
.

max_only · March 2017

Only kill the rude npcs. You know the ones:

Dunmer.

Xelrick · March 2017

Do note some NPCs respawn timers is about 5 seconds. Mainly those involved for a DB achievement. Just needing to know their respawn points is the issue.

BadLuckCharm · March 2017

max_only wrote: »

Only kill the rude npcs. You know the ones:

That guy by the horse trainer in Shornhelm, Rivenspire. The one that's going around pounding his fist in his hand? There's a pixel dagger waiting for his pixel throat.

Everstorm · March 2017

Tapio75 wrote: »

I have hard time beliegveing claims, that other players pickpocketing empties the NPC for other players coming after the first pickpocketer. This weekend, we were happily pickpocketing NPC's with my friend, we both did the thing sometimes even 3 times on same NPC and there were always 3 pickpockets for both of us.

When i am pickpocketing alone, i never run to an NPC that has empty pockets.

I do run into npcs with less than three items on occassion. Anyway, the best reason to pickpocketing three times is the lines the victims speak when they're empty.

IcyDeadPeople wrote: »

Anyone willing to deal with consequences from murder (very high bounty for a long time), should get better reward.

The bounties are a farce, with all the skills that reduce the bounty and make them tick away faster you would have to be really careless to not make a profit.

IwakuraLain42 · March 2017

Tapio75 wrote: »

When i am pickpocketing alone, i never run to an NPC that has empty pockets.

Same was with containers. We could both steal from containers and both got stuff that was even completely different from what the other got. I foirr example, have tons of decorative vax and found a container containing it and since i do not have the need for it, i told my friend to loot it. For her, there was apples in the container. For me, there was decorative vax. NPC's seemed to wwork similarly.

I'm pretty sure NPCs are instanced like containers as well, meaning that you can't take other people loot away. The only execption are chests and heavy sacks (outside of group dungeons).

Tapio75 · March 2017

IcyDeadPeople wrote: »

Anyone willing to deal with consequences from murder (very high bounty for a long time), should get better reward.

Haven't killed any NPCs lately, but last time it seemed like they drop pretty much the same loot as pickpocketing. Mostly white and green, some blue, and very rarely you get a purple from killing someone. If you want to max out your fence transactions with blue items you have to kill a hell of a lot of NPCs.
.

What consequences? The amount of gold from fencing stuff greatly outweights any bounty most players get, making any bounty meaningless.

Now if there were assassins sent after murderers that work like guards, that would be meaningful consequence that makes people think about risk vs gain scenario.

Reivax · March 2017

Ahzek wrote: »

Vigarr wrote: »

You can't get housing items from killing npc's with the blade of woe but you can from picpocketing.

I have heard people confirm that both pickpocketing and murder can provide housing items.

I've murdered them to get one and I've pickpocketed them.
Also, not a scientific observation by any means, but... I feel the 3rd pickpocket is almost always a better quality item, relatively speaking, than the first two pickpockets on that NPC.

Tapio75 · March 2017

Reivax wrote: »

Ahzek wrote: »

Vigarr wrote: »

You can't get housing items from killing npc's with the blade of woe but you can from picpocketing.

I have heard people confirm that both pickpocketing and murder can provide housing items.

I've murdered them to get one and I've pickpocketed them.
Also, not a scientific observation by any means, but... I feel the 3rd pickpocket is almost always a better quality item, relatively speaking, than the first two pickpockets on that NPC.

I have noticed, that second pickpocket often gives slightly better chance to get something worthwhile compared to first attempt, rarely get any valuables on first try, sometimes on second but the general feel i have, is that third time gives usually something more valuable wwhich should also be logical as the chance decreases on each attempt.

By murdering, i often get something green, but generally just something that has very litle value.

Pickpocketing an NPC does not make it empty to next pickpocket on my experience.

zaria · March 2017

IwakuraLain42 wrote: »

Tapio75 wrote: »

When i am pickpocketing alone, i never run to an NPC that has empty pockets.

Same was with containers. We could both steal from containers and both got stuff that was even completely different from what the other got. I foirr example, have tons of decorative vax and found a container containing it and since i do not have the need for it, i told my friend to loot it. For her, there was apples in the container. For me, there was decorative vax. NPC's seemed to wwork similarly.

I'm pretty sure NPCs are instanced like containers as well, meaning that you can't take other people loot away. The only execption are chests and heavy sacks (outside of group dungeons).

Its verified that multiple can pickpocket the same character.
The lady on an chair in an camp just outside the TG headquarter is an good example.
You can see other pickpocket her and get 3 items yourself.
She is perfect as you can just go inside the load door then out and try again even if caught.
If you have an high bounty you should clear it as it make pickpocket harder.