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Should Warlord and Magician be removed
Nelson_Rebel
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Since this has come up multiple times I'm curious to see what the silent Majority feel on this issue.
As it's stated warlord and magician were shown being removed along with some other CP adjustments at PAX.
Edited by Nelson_Rebel on March 20, 2017 10:48AM As it's stated warlord and magician were shown being removed along with some other CP adjustments at PAX.
Should Warlord and Magician be removed 277 votes
No Magician and Warlord should stay
79%
220 votes
Yes Remove them
20%
57 votes
0
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Turelus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Yes Remove themYes.
A lot of things in the CP tree need gutting or changing in order to bring some level of challenge and balance back to the game.
We're currently in an age where you don't need any regen or cost reduction on gear because it's all handled by the CP system, this means you just stack max stat and damage sets.
They're not making this change as a middle finger to everyone, they're doing it because right now it's not healthy for the game. Everyone wants balance and keeps asking for more challenge or more chance for builds other than "stack damage" and now they're working on it.@Turelus - EU PC Megaserver
"Don't count on others for help. In the end each of us is in this alone. The survivors are those who know how to look out for themselves."5 -
Edziu✭✭✭✭✭
✭it should only if medium, light armor will get buff to cost reduction and regen as recompensate with this to not hurt it to much inn pve and make those armors more viable in pvp instead of still damn heavy armor meta with infinite sustain13 -
Doctordarkspawn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No Magician and Warlord should stayAllready ten to four.
Seriously, do I even need to -state- why?
This game needs to grow the *** up and lie in the bed it's made. It made a game largely reliant on DPS. Now deal with it. Either do a complete, and drastic overhaul on MANY bosses and mechanics, or suck it up and deal. Either one works for me.20 -
wolfxspice✭✭✭Yes Remove themi'm a little on the fence about it, i worked for all that cp, and i'v built around the sustain, buts its gotten to a point where fights last forever, you can spam abilities consistently, build for damage only, and have no sustain issues. it might be for the best if they go.I'm a casual now0 -
Olupajmibanan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Yes Remove themOnly and only if they bring equal alternative!
For example something like new Warden spell, a magicka version of Spear Shards.Edited by Olupajmibanan on March 20, 2017 11:14AM0 -
Nelson_Rebel✭✭✭✭✭
✭No Magician and Warlord should stayYes.
A lot of things in the CP tree need gutting or changing in order to bring some level of challenge and balance back to the game.
We're currently in an age where you don't need any regen or cost reduction on gear because it's all handled by the CP system, this means you just stack max stat and damage sets.
They're not making this change as a middle finger to everyone, they're doing it because right now it's not healthy for the game. Everyone wants balance and keeps asking for more challenge or more chance for builds other than "stack damage" and now they're working on it.
Doctordarkspawn wrote: »
» show previous quotes
1. Most people I've seen in this thread have reacted negatively to the change. If you'd like to do a experiment, I urge you. Go into game, during primetime hours, and ask people what they think of the change in several different zones and start tallying reactions.
1A. GIVE THEM THE FULL STORY, OR IT DOES NOT COUNT. I dont trust you not to lie to pad the results.
Of course you wont, because your more concerned with crushing dissent and discussion you think dosent need to be happening, but it's a thought. Put your money where your mouth is.
2. No. The Devs have no obligation to respond to any of it. However, this 'lack of obligation' does not mean they should not. The devs have the ability to take things into their own hands, try to communicate the changes, and possibly put this issue to bed before it even hits PTS.
But they dont. They've likely allready decided the change, which is why it really does not matter if they noticed or not. It's going through.
3. The people I see going on about how this change is great are either sarcastic, or allready well off. This is a class war. The people lawding for the change are the same people yelling incessantly for this game to be harder when they need to go play darksouls again. These people who will never be satisfied, who's happiness come at the cost of ours. Forgive me if I dont think very highly of these greedy people.
I dont have faith it'll be fine. I have faith it'll either be the death of, or a step in the direction of the death of, this game. Spurred on by people who allready raid at the endgame level, or people like Alcast who cant understand the myriad of differences between what this game was a year ago, and what it is now. The ill informed and gullable, and the greedy and manipulative.
***Posting this as this is exactly how I feel about it*** @Doctordarkspawn
Edited by Nelson_Rebel on March 20, 2017 11:28AM4 -
Skayaq✭✭✭✭✭Yes Remove themI'm leaning towards yes, the cp system was supposed to be about customizing your characters, but there isn't much customization when everyone picks the same because it is far and away the best star in any of the thief constellations.Kazari-Dar, Khajiit Nightblade..........Jarkyr Storm-Blade, Nord Sorcerer .......... Dunric Amedain, Breton Templar
Araniwen, Altmer Sorcerer..................Llirasa Andralu, Dunmer Templar...................Marzug gro-Borgaz, Orc Warden
Calinchel, Bosmer Warden...................Jahrel-Xei, Argonian Nightblade....................Cienri Maraeud, Breton Sorcerer
Inara Savicci, Imperial Templar...................Garoric Attilus, Imperial Dragonknight............ Maevina Tallian, Imperial Nightblade
Ravanni-Ko, Khajiit Dragonknight..........Faevyn Ice-Heart, Nord Warden..........Nazran al-Taneth, Redguard Dragonknight2 -
JinMori✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭No Magician and Warlord should stayI'm all right with removing them only if they bring something equally as good to sustain. Otherwise no.
But from what iv'e seen this seems to be just a nerf to everybody.Edited by JinMori on March 20, 2017 11:45AM9 -
MjolnirVilkas✭✭✭✭No Magician and Warlord should stayWhile I believe some things should be nerfed in order to bring more balance to classes, I don't think this is the way. I think majority of us have gotten used to CP by now and people that are or will be new to the game don't even know the other way. So I think they should stop messing with CP so heavily and instead just tweak it if neccessary.Edited by MjolnirVilkas on March 20, 2017 11:36AMSick liaisons raised this monumental mark
The sun sets forever over Blackwater Park3 -
Lylith✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭No Magician and Warlord should staytrying to tune a swiss watch with a sledgehammer, yet again.
we'll likely end up with more broken *** zos won't fix.9 -
Eshja✭✭✭✭This is Zenimax and Bethesda's game so if they think it should be removed - it should be. They're trying to improve the game.
And during ESO live Gina said that this is part of big change so we shouldn't really judge it till we won't see all the changes.@Eshja (PC EU) Master crafter | Roleplayer | Trial scrub | Love healing ♥
My characters: Nimpys Elenmir| Narielle Telvanni | Moans-Loudly | Vivienne The Zookeeper | Zamiatająca-Ogonem | Kha'mathre | Irgret Soul-Breaker0 -
JinMori✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭No Magician and Warlord should stay80% vs 20 % i don't know about you zenimax, but i would be worried.5 -
Edziu✭✭✭✭✭
✭This is Zenimax and Bethesda's game so if they think it should be removed - it should be. They're trying to improve the game.
And during ESO live Gina said that this is part of big change so we shouldn't really judge it till we won't see all the changes.
improve the game with big nerf where top player will a bit feel this nerf in HM trials while average players will feel very big hurt to just vet trials, without hm...so it should look like?0 -
Blackbird_V✭✭✭✭✭
✭No Magician and Warlord should stayYes.
A lot of things in the CP tree need gutting or changing in order to bring some level of challenge and balance back to the game.
We're currently in an age where you don't need any regen or cost reduction on gear because it's all handled by the CP system, this means you just stack max stat and damage sets.
They're not making this change as a middle finger to everyone, they're doing it because right now it's not healthy for the game. Everyone wants balance and keeps asking for more challenge or more chance for builds other than "stack damage" and now they're working on it.
We need to use damage sets... and need the CP.
Try doing City of Ash II with both DDS combined DPS lower than 33k; it won't work.
Try doing vAA last boss sun stage with appalling DPS; the healers would have to be better than God to outheal the damage for a long time.
Try doing vMOL with lower DPS. Zhaj’hassa's shield stages would be cancer af. Vashai And S'kinrai when you get the ad flood... that *** would be harder.
vMOL forced to do Lunar Stage is not fun at all, and the adds you have to kill... ugh. Rakkat when he's in execution stage.... outhealing that damage for a longer time will be unnecessarily hard.
PvP: Yes separate CP remove them because heavy armour meta. PvE? Leave it the *** alone.Difficulty scaling is desperately needed. 9 years. 6 paid expansions. 25 DLCs. 41 game changing updates including A Realm Reborn-tier overhaul of the game including a permanent CP160 gear cap and ridiculous power creep thereafter. I'm sick and tired of hearing about Cadwell Silver&Gold as a "you think you do but you don't"-tier deflection to any criticism regarding the lack of overland difficulty in the game.7 -
Flaminir✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Yes Remove themThe meta has been 'Stack damage' ever since CP came out as that would handle sustain.
This has significantly contributed to:- Very low time to kill in PvP which reduces counterplay and actually ends up reducing the skill required to kill people.
- A narrow range of perceived 'viable' end game builds as there will always be a mathamatically 'best in slot' for damage
- Narrowing of the economy as only a limited few sets are used for the narrow range of mathamatically BIS damage builds
I would LOVE them to remove this part of the CP tree to address all the issues above... BUT it comes with a caveat...
They MUST make sure that the following are done to balance this out:- Ensure that end game content is balanced for this (slight) lowering of the DPS threshold. EG: Make sure dps race mechanics reflect the ability of an average group to sustain their dps across the fight.
- Tone down cost increase poisons to help balance PvP... no cost reduction from CP AND poisons would be totally broken.
- NOT increase the gear cap for at least 12 months after the change. Everybody would have to change builds quite significantly to cope with this change... we already have a lot of the CP160 gear, but to then re-faram again a few months after changing for this would be a deal breaker for many people.
SO... this could be a great opportunity for a freshen up of the economy, our builds, add more viable and creative builds to the meta, remove the need/pain of a gear cap increase all in one change!
GM of the Unholy LegacyPC/EU/EP5 -
danno8✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Remember when they removed stamina regeneration while blocking and people thought that would make all the dungeons impossible?5 -
Edziu✭✭✭✭✭
✭@Flaminir your forgat all on pvp with staking this damage and infinite sustain is on heavy armor with additional survivability, when on light/medium armor you are very squsihy and you cant have infinite sustain in combat with stacked on max with damage or survivaiblity, here heavy armor is problem because you can have everything in this, great if not the best survivaiblity, great sustain and still damage2 -
Eshja✭✭✭✭This is Zenimax and Bethesda's game so if they think it should be removed - it should be. They're trying to improve the game.
And during ESO live Gina said that this is part of big change so we shouldn't really judge it till we won't see all the changes.
improve the game with big nerf where top player will a bit feel this nerf in HM trials while average players will feel very big hurt to just vet trials, without hm...so it should look like?
There was an information somewhere that most of vMols was done ignoring mechanic of last boss, just nuking, this will make it impossible so not only average players will be nerfed.
And most of problems on trials is not bashing, not ressurecting, not stacking (or stacking too much when we shouldn't stack) and not observing the boss carefully. Not the dps, hps etc. Excepting vMol there is not much situations when too low dps can wipe a team. Just wispmother in vAA I think... Bash and block are main problems of right side of vHRC which is estimated as harder than left side.@Eshja (PC EU) Master crafter | Roleplayer | Trial scrub | Love healing ♥
My characters: Nimpys Elenmir| Narielle Telvanni | Moans-Loudly | Vivienne The Zookeeper | Zamiatająca-Ogonem | Kha'mathre | Irgret Soul-Breaker0 -
Edziu✭✭✭✭✭
✭This is Zenimax and Bethesda's game so if they think it should be removed - it should be. They're trying to improve the game.
And during ESO live Gina said that this is part of big change so we shouldn't really judge it till we won't see all the changes.
improve the game with big nerf where top player will a bit feel this nerf in HM trials while average players will feel very big hurt to just vet trials, without hm...so it should look like?
There was an information somewhere that most of vMols was done ignoring mechanic of last boss, just nuking, this will make it impossible so not only average players will be nerfed.
And most of problems on trials is not bashing, not ressurecting, not stacking (or stacking too much when we shouldn't stack) and not observing the boss carefully. Not the dps, hps etc. Excepting vMol there is not much situations when too low dps can wipe a team. Just wispmother in vAA I think... Bash and block are main problems of right side of vHRC which is estimated as harder than left side.
on vMoL maybe...but what about vAA hard mode? with to low dps you wont go to 50% boss because of so fast respawning storm atronach and mini-mages with it, without huge dps you wont do it, same on vHRC hm, without enough huge dps also single gargoyle is huge problem and what when boss will go into enrage phase and all firecasters and warrios will wakeup? 2 healers wont heal this insnae damage.
and about vMoL hard mode...at all now still so small amount of player have done this so boss burnt without all mechancicks or no....at all you need huge dps to kill boss with comming adds with time and dps loss will wipe group because adds will be not killed enough fast and with it is comming more harder work to healer to keep everyone alive keeping all buffs on group and supportEdited by Edziu on March 20, 2017 1:03PM0 -
Edziu✭✭✭✭✭
✭Don't care either way. The players will adapt.
like always because they are forced to this, especially top player will adapt without huge problem while average player who now can have problem with vet trials after nerf like this he will have much bigger problem to be able at all done vet trial1 -
Enslaved✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭No Magician and Warlord should stayRemove it? No. Tweak it a bit? Yes.
For example, let it be 10% instead 16%, so it would be a slight nerf, compared to complete removal of these.
Or give us reduced cost of all skills by at least 5%.7 -
Browiseth✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Yes Remove thempeople are going to vote no because they don't want to have to change their builds/get better at the game, even if it means the game will ultimately improve in the long run
a very selfish and short sighted mindsetskingrad when zoscharacters:PC/NA but live in EU 150+ ping lyfe- EP - M - Strikes-with-Arcane - Argonian Stamina Sorc - lvl 50 - The Flawless Conqueror/Spirit Slayer
- EP - F - Melina Elinia - Dunmer Magicka Dragonknight - lvl 50
- EP - F - Sinnia Lavellan - Altmer Warden Healer - lvl 50
- EP - M - Follows-the-Arcane - Argonian Healer Sorcerer- lvl 50
- EP - F - Ashes-of-Arcane - Argonian Magicka Necromancer - lvl 50
- EP - M - Bolgrog the Sinh - Orc Stamina Dragonknight - lvl 50
- EP - F - Moonlight Maiden - Altmer Magicka Templar - lvl 50
- EP - F - Maxine Cauline - Breton Magicka Nightblade - lvl 50
- EP - M - Garrus Loridius - Imperial Stamina Templar - lvl 50
- EP - F - Jennifer Loridius - Imperial Necromancer tank - lvl 50
5 -
iAmLife✭✭✭Yes Remove themNoI'll own you fool, COME AT ME YOU SON OF A GUN, hi names Life... LIKE FOR LIFE kthnxbye0 -
SlowMetabolism✭✭✭No Magician and Warlord should stayPelinalWhitestrake wrote: »Remove CP and lower base cost of skills. Wait... I just angered the community, didn't I?
^Day one Xbox player4
