Champion character makes lesser valued glyphs than level 24 character?

Ageless · March 2017

I've got two characters on the NA server, one is a level 50+136CP, the other level 24
When doing enchanting, making glyphs, I found that when the level 24 character makes for instance a minor glyph of stamina, it gets 763 maximum stamina added (Odra+Deni+Jejota) to a minimum level 20 glyph (level 12 enchanting).
However, the level 50+136CP character making a major glyph of stamina will only get 356 maximum stamina added (Denara+Deni+Rekuta) to a minimum level CP 10 glyph (level 29 enchanting).

Can anyone explain that to me? Shouldn't my level 50+136CP character be making glyphs that are way higher in value?

STEVIL · March 2017

this is not wrong.

this is actually working as intended.

Your character level determines the amount of scaling.
that scaling bonus applied to all things that are affected - including gear.

your level of gear sets it base value - and scaling is applied to that.

So if a level 40 character has a level 40 piece of gear or glyph both get 10 levels of boost and all is well.
if same character has a lvl 20 glyph both get 10 levels of boost and the glyph is poor because the glyph started at lvl 20 and only got 10 scaling.

Whether you crafted the gear or can craft the gear or have maxed this or maxed that has no impact. its just level of character and level/quality of gear that matter.

Throwing in "but i can craft this here" and "but over there i can craft" is just muddying the waters. Where the gear comes from - does not matter.

And the big news is - it has always worked like this but the labels you saw looked different.

OLD SCHOOL before scaling monsters levels vary by zone
Lvl 20 character in a zone where lvl 20 monsters are wearing level 20 gear is OK.
Lvl 40 character in a zone where lvl 40 monsters are wearing level 40 gear is OK.
Lvl 40 character in a zone where lvl 40 monsters are wearing level 20 gear is worse off because the base bonus from his gear is lower.
In this case since there is no scaling all the numbers are raw values and the monsters values vary by zone.

NEW SCHOOL with scaling all monsters everywhere cp160
Lvl 20 character in a zone where cp160 monsters are wearing level 20 gear is OK everything scales to cp160
Lvl 40 character in a zone where cp160 monsters are wearing level 40 gear is OK everything scales to cp160
Lvl 40 character in a zone where cp160 monsters are wearing level 20 gear is worse off because the base bonus from his gear is lower but they get the same scaling as the level 40 did so it falls short.
In this case, since there is scaling, all the numbers are scaled values and the monsters values are the same everywhere.

So. old days the values on the items were set by its level/quality regardless of where you went in non-scaled zones but the monsters varied all over the place.

Now, the monsters are the same numbers everywhere and the gear bonuses scales by the character level.

if you just keep in mind that the number on an item is "base item + scaling for character" and not some objective fixed value, it makes sense.

MAEK · March 2017

Hmm, maybe it's because of scaling? So that if you have a glyph of appropriate level you get a certain amount whatever level you have? And since the difference between 20 and 24 is smaller than the differance between cp 10 and cp 136 you'd get more use in the lower leveled example. This is all just guesses tough.

STEVIL · March 2017

Put them both in your bank and pull them both out on one character. Then check numbers.

Taleof2Cities · March 2017

@Ageless, do you have the capacity to take a screenshot of each glyph? That might enable us to help explain better.

Ageless · March 2017

@Taleof2Cities, already had those made yesterday.

http://imgur.com/Iw3puN7
(Minor glyph)

http://imgur.com/cxU8Vso
(Major glyph)

I made the same minor glyph with my 50+ character: http://imgur.com/cqIS0tW
Just 178 maximum stamina!

Edit1: and sorry, it was 704 maximum stamina for the minor glyph
Edit2: both characters were made at the same time, it's just that the 50+ character got there first. And since I have another character on the NA server from a year and a half back, that had gathered 130 CPs, the 50+ character just started immediately upon reaching level 50 with 130 CPs.

Nestor · March 2017

Its simple really. Its the scaling.

An over leveled character benefits less from gear than a character that is closer to the gear level. That is the source of the mystery.

The game is buffing leveling characters up to CP160. One of those methods is a gear buff. But, the devs don't want people to make L10 gear and have it work until CP160. So, the gear benefits a player more who near level to the gear, and less as they over level it. This is why a CP Ranked sees the Glyph as offering less value.

Now, I bet, if you take the Glyph the CP Ranked made and put it in the inventory of the L24, it would have the same value as the what the L24 sees on the Glyph the L24 made. Why do I know this, I make gear on my CP700+ all the time for my leveling alts. The stats I see when the leveling alts equip it is what I expect. The stats my CP700+ sees are always less.

Ageless · March 2017

STEVIL wrote: »

Put them both in your bank and pull them both out on one character. Then check numbers.

Good idea.

Made a minor glyph of stamina (Odra+Deni+Denata) of 763 Max with level 24.
Made a major glyph of stamina (Denara+Deni+Rekuta) of 356 Max with level 50+

Put both in bank.
Have the level 24 char remove the major glyph: 802 Max stamina, minimum level C10: http://imgur.com/qR4QrBN
Have the level 50+ char remove the minor glyph: 168 Max stamina, minimum level 20: http://imgur.com/dwuqF4P

Now, if this is due to scaling, and my level 50+ char being CP136, but only able to make CP20+ glyphs, due to having 'low experience' in enchanting, wouldn't that be a bug? I can't help it that any char that reaches level 50 immediately gets the champion points of the precious character(s) added.

Nestor · March 2017

Ageless wrote: »

Now, if this is due to scaling, and my level 50+ char being CP136, but only able to make CP20+ glyphs, due to having 'low experience' in enchanting, wouldn't that be a bug?

Only if your Potency Improvement passive was the same.

It's not the level of the skill, its the level of the passive that determines the level of the item you can make. 9 out of 10 Characters I have is L50 in every crafting skill, and most of them can't make anything over the first level tier as I do not spend the points in the material passives on them.

Again, there is no bug here, a high level character will always see lower stats on a low level item than a character that is on or near the items level.

Ageless · March 2017

Nestor wrote: »

It's not the level of the skill, its the level of the passive that determines the level of the item you can make.

The level of the passive is determined by the level of the skill. I have aspect improvement 3/4 which won't go higher until I have level 30 experience, and potency improvement 6/10 which won't go higher intil I have level 31 experience.

Still, why does my level 50 character with more aspect and potency improvement make lower valued glyphs than my lower leveled character? I gave the level50+ char some pants found in the world, because those at least give 763 max magicka, something I cannot add to them as my max is 356 - which in itself is lower than the lower character can add.

It's made the game that much harder, which is probably fine for some... but I can't attack more than two beings at a time now as else I die. Whereas with the lower level char I can attack up to 6 at a time, and come out at the skin of my teeth, I shouldn't attack more than 2 now and sometimes not even more than 1. As the level 50+ char has lower health, stamina and magicka than the level 24 char has. Which is ridiculous.

Do four hacks with Burning Embers and my magicka is down and unusable.
Five hacks with reverse slice and the same for stamina. In which I put all my points.

I even threw lots of gold into the char to redo the skill and attribute points, didn't help. Made it worse even.
And then I found that I can't even add much through my armor, because of the extreme low levels that it adds, even though all the help-websites say the values I should add are much higher.

For example: http://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Glyph+of+Magicka
Shows that the purple glyphs that I make should give 520 points for my Major glyph, not 356 points. Unless ZOS downsized them again since last June.

Checking what the NPC sells in the Enchantment store, I see he has a Monumental glyph of Health which adds 562 points for CP100, and a same glyph of Magicka for 511 points for CP100. The lowest glyph he sells is Splendid (491 Heath, 447 Magicka) for CP70.

So I really suspect now that I am being downleveled in the making of higher glyphs because I have no experience in making them, even though my char is automatically over level 130 in champion points as soon as he reached level 50.

But then be consequent and allow that char to also make glyphs and weapons/clothing for that level, without requiring them to stumble through low level glyphs and many many unnecessary deaths, until they reach the possibility to make glyphs suitable for the CP level they're already at. And this only makes it worse for next chars that reach level 50 as this char will have added more champion points that automatically get added to the lower char's CP level.

Ageless · March 2017

Here's a striking example of how wrong this is:
These numbers are for my Level 50+ char.

I have a little bit more health than the level 21 char in my group. And that's on an all CP60 armor of the Seducer, with added health to all the armor pieces. CP60 armor is the most I can make at this time.

Here's all numbers:

The Elder Scrolls Online

Champion character makes lesser valued glyphs than level 24 character?

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