UNDAUNTED METTLE

AntMan100673 · March 2017

Irrespective of whether someone goes 7/0/0, 5/2/0 or 5/1/1 then yes someone with this passive will have better stats than someone with the same build who doesn't have this passive.

If you only want to PvP you're going to have to suck it up and do some PvE. Exactly the same as people who only want to PvE will have to suck it up and do some PvP if they want Caltrops, Vigor etc.

My opinion is that getting people to at least do a certain amount of everything the game has to offer is a good thing.

The only issue I would have is that after getting these skills levelled up people may decide they only like one of PvE or PvP and not want to do the other anymore however if they decide they want to level another character then they're forced to do it again so there's maybe a case to make them account wide.

Tasear · March 2017

Tis is why people make joke about PvPers .... they just think differently from us in PvE.

SanderBuraas · March 2017

Turelus wrote: »

They're balanced in that you lose benefits from your armour skills as well.

They would be more balanced however if ZOS ever untied resource values from damage of skills.

@Turelus

Let's see what I gain if I wear seven light armour vs. five light, one medium and one heavy armour.

Seven light armour:

Reduces cost of Magicka spells by 6% (2300 Magicka * 0,94 = 2162)
Increases Magicka Recovery by 8% (1500 Magicka Recovery * 0,08 = 120)

Five light, one medium and one heavy armour:

Increases Magicka, Health and Stamina by 6% (35,000 Magicka * 1,06 = 37,100. 16,000 Health * 1,06 = 16,960. 9,000 Stamina * 1,06 = 9,540)
Increases Armour and Spell Resistance by 362, as well as 1978 from the heavy and medium armour pieces, meaning 3,5% mitigation (2340 / 660 = 3,54)
Increases Health Recovery by 4%
You restore 186 Magicka and Stamina each time you are hit, once every 4 seconds, meaning 93 Magicka and Stamina Recovery (186 / 2 = 93)
Increases Health by 2% (16,960 * 1,02 = 17,299)
Increases Stamina Recovery by 4%
Reduces the cost of sneaking by 7%
Reduces the cost of your detection area by 5%

Now tell me why you shouldn't take advantage of the passive.

FriedEggSandwich · March 2017

It's not mandatory for pvp. I have over 100 days /played, ran vma over 100 times, still undaunted rank 7, don't feel weak in pvp. If I ever get the passive I will continue to wear 5 light and 2 heavy. *** medium armour.

Drdeath20 · March 2017

Its not mandatory and its available to everyone. Whats the problem?

Turelus · March 2017

Smepic wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

They're balanced in that you lose benefits from your armour skills as well.

They would be more balanced however if ZOS ever untied resource values from damage of skills.

Turelus

Let's see what I gain if I wear seven light armour vs. five light, one medium and one heavy armour.

Seven light armour:
Reduces cost of Magicka spells by 6% (2300 Magicka * 0,94 = 2162)

Increases Magicka Recovery by 8% (1500 Magicka Recovery * 0,08 = 120)

Five light, one medium and one heavy armour:
Increases Magicka, Health and Stamina by 6% (35,000 Magicka * 1,06 = 37,100. 16,000 Health * 1,06 = 16,960. 9,000 Stamina * 1,06 = 9,540)

Increases Armour and Spell Resistance by 362, as well as 1978 from the heavy and medium armour pieces, meaning 3,5% mitigation (2340 / 660 = 3,54)

Increases Health Recovery by 4%

You restore 186 Magicka and Stamina each time you are hit, once every 4 seconds, meaning 93 Magicka and Stamina Recovery (186 / 2 = 93)

Increases Health by 2% (16,960 * 1,02 = 17,299)

Increases Stamina Recovery by 4%

Reduces the cost of sneaking by 7%

Reduces the cost of your detection area by 5%

Now tell me why you shouldn't take advantage of the passive.

How did you manage to go a whole page of debating everyone else's points before getting to mine?

As for telling you why you shouldn't? I don't know you're numbers seem legit although my guess is YMMV on different builds.
You've given the numbers here though which show it's superior so I am not going to argue the point.

Ep1kMalware · March 2017

Smepic wrote: »

This passive must be changed. It increases your resource pools by 6% each if you wear at least one of each armour type. This makes it mandatory for those who min/max and important in PvP.

Let's say you have 35,000 Magicka, 16,000 Health and 9,000 Stamina – the passive gives you an extra 2,100 Magicka, 960 Health and 540 Stamina.

It may seem silly to be opposed to the passive, but percentage stat boosts are negative to the game, at least when it comes to balance. Just like racial passives, the Undaunted Mettle passive needs to be reworked – to be relevant to group play, for example.

Smepic wrote: »

Let's see what I gain if I wear seven light armour vs. five light, one medium and one heavy armour.

Seven light armour:
Reduces cost of Magicka spells by 6% (2300 Magicka * 0,94 = 2162)

Increases Magicka Recovery by 8% (1500 Magicka Recovery * 0,08 = 120)

Five light, one medium and one heavy armour:
Increases Magicka, Health and Stamina by 6% (35,000 Magicka * 1,06 = 37,100. 16,000 Health * 1,06 = 16,960. 9,000 Stamina * 1,06 = 9,540)

Increases Armour and Spell Resistance by 362, as well as 1978 from the heavy and medium armour pieces, meaning 3,5% mitigation (2340 / 660 = 3,54)

Increases Health Recovery by 4%

You restore 186 Magicka and Stamina each time you are hit, once every 4 seconds, meaning 93 Magicka and Stamina Recovery (186 / 2 = 93)

Increases Health by 2% (16,960 * 1,02 = 17,299)

Increases Stamina Recovery by 4%

Reduces the cost of sneaking by 7%

Reduces the cost of your detection area by 5%

Now tell me why you shouldn't take advantage of the passive.

Edit: For those who don't care about PvP balance, there is no reason for you to reply. The thread is aimed at PvP, as most of mine are.

Don't be dumb. Without undauned mettle you'd probably have 15k hp outside pvp and you'd get ganked far more in pvp. Also you can bet ur ass that 2k magica will be very near and dear to you in june.

Look, Inget it, you just beat your first dungeon and discover the passive. You cry for balance. Formone, it's a pve skill line, go home. For 2, if you get it taken away you better be ready to drop 30$ to race change ur toons.

Bobby_V_Rockit · March 2017

I'm curious about this too, does it actually negatively affect DPS by wearing multiple armour types? I wear 6m/1h for the resource bonus, but lose out on crit chance and stamina cost.

Some streamers builds run all one armour type, some run 2 or 3. Personal preference I guess?

Ep1kMalware · March 2017

Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »

I'm curious about this too, does it actually negatively affect DPS by wearing multiple armour types? I wear 6m/1h for the resource bonus, but lose out on crit chance and stamina cost.

Some streamers builds run all one armour type, some run 2 or 3. Personal preference I guess?

It *can*. My max stam atm is 38.4k well, 38.4k*.08=2300ish more stam. 2300/9=256. So for my it is the equivelent of 256 weapon damage. Honestly the reason It's good is because you can get your health up a bit higher.

I'd rather have the extra health/stam for self sustain/survivability for dungeons/vma/random trial's groups. If I had a strong supporting group for trials 7 medium would be better for the extra 1.8(?) crit.

arkansas_ESO · March 2017

This is one of the weirdest things to complain about. I get complaining about having to grind out Undaunted if all you're interested in is PVP (I'm the same way), but the actual passives? Everybody just ran 7 light/medium/heavy before this passive got introduced, now it feels like there's more armor variety. I can't see why you'd want to remove this.

Magdalina · March 2017

Smepic wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

They're balanced in that you lose benefits from your armour skills as well.

They would be more balanced however if ZOS ever untied resource values from damage of skills.

@Turelus

Let's see what I gain if I wear seven light armour vs. five light, one medium and one heavy armour.

Seven light armour:
Reduces cost of Magicka spells by 6% (2300 Magicka * 0,94 = 2162)

Increases Magicka Recovery by 8% (1500 Magicka Recovery * 0,08 = 120)

Five light, one medium and one heavy armour:
Increases Magicka, Health and Stamina by 6% (35,000 Magicka * 1,06 = 37,100. 16,000 Health * 1,06 = 16,960. 9,000 Stamina * 1,06 = 9,540)

Increases Armour and Spell Resistance by 362, as well as 1978 from the heavy and medium armour pieces, meaning 3,5% mitigation (2340 / 660 = 3,54)

Increases Health Recovery by 4%

You restore 186 Magicka and Stamina each time you are hit, once every 4 seconds, meaning 93 Magicka and Stamina Recovery (186 / 2 = 93)

Increases Health by 2% (16,960 * 1,02 = 17,299)

Increases Stamina Recovery by 4%

Reduces the cost of sneaking by 7%

Reduces the cost of your detection area by 5%

Now tell me why you shouldn't take advantage of the passive.

Actually there's totally no reason not to have this passive simply because even with 7/0/0 you'll get 2% more stats for free which can't possibly be a bad thing. So your comparison is kind of not very accurate in the sense that you're comparing 7/0/0 stats without a passive to 5/1/1 stats with a passive.

So there's a great passive incentivising people to run dungeons, maybe make friends, get into guilds for that, socialize etc. Try out an activity they maybe never would have tried otherwise but might end up liking. HOW AWFUL.

If you wanna argue about whether or not 5/1/1 is better than other alternatives(taking the passive into consideration
)...I'd say in most cases it is but I'm fairly sure there're builds out there running 7/7 heavy for constitution, 7 medium for pure damage and 7 light for pure sustain(6/8% mag regen/reduction is actually pretty major if you have those stats high). Oh and 5/2 is definitely a good and widely used one. 5/1/1 is not the only viable option for 100% of all the scenarios, I think it'd good that it's a viable one though. Prior to that it'd be 7/0/0 most everywhere.

Muramasa89 · March 2017

Smepic wrote: »

Edit: For those who don't care about PvP balance, there is no reason for you to reply.

Translation: if you disagree, please don't reply to me

Skinzz · March 2017

I use it for all my builds pvp and pve.

Ep1kMalware · March 2017

Muramasa89 wrote: »

Smepic wrote: »

Edit: For those who don't care about PvP balance, there is no reason for you to reply.

Translation: if you disagree, please don't reply to me

Unspoken translation: I don't understand balance but lets nerf more pve!

hedna123b14_ESO · March 2017

Smepic wrote: »

This passive must be changed. It increases your resource pools by 6% each if you wear at least one of each armour type. This makes it mandatory for those who min/max and important in PvP.

Let's say you have 35,000 Magicka, 16,000 Health and 9,000 Stamina – the passive gives you an extra 2,100 Magicka, 960 Health and 540 Stamina.

It may seem silly to be opposed to the passive, but percentage stat boosts are negative to the game, at least when it comes to balance. Just like racial passives, the Undaunted Mettle passive needs to be reworked – to be relevant to group play, for example.

Smepic wrote: »

Let's see what I gain if I wear seven light armour vs. five light, one medium and one heavy armour.

Seven light armour:
Reduces cost of Magicka spells by 6% (2300 Magicka * 0,94 = 2162)

Increases Magicka Recovery by 8% (1500 Magicka Recovery * 0,08 = 120)

Five light, one medium and one heavy armour:
Increases Magicka, Health and Stamina by 6% (35,000 Magicka * 1,06 = 37,100. 16,000 Health * 1,06 = 16,960. 9,000 Stamina * 1,06 = 9,540)

Increases Armour and Spell Resistance by 362, as well as 1978 from the heavy and medium armour pieces, meaning 3,5% mitigation (2340 / 660 = 3,54)

Increases Health Recovery by 4%

You restore 186 Magicka and Stamina each time you are hit, once every 4 seconds, meaning 93 Magicka and Stamina Recovery (186 / 2 = 93)

Increases Health by 2% (16,960 * 1,02 = 17,299)

Increases Stamina Recovery by 4%

Reduces the cost of sneaking by 7%

Reduces the cost of your detection area by 5%

Now tell me why you shouldn't take advantage of the passive.

Edit: For those who don't care about PvP balance, there is no reason for you to reply. The thread is aimed at PvP, as most of mine are.

Go away...nothing wrong with it and it works fine...

worsttankever · March 2017

All classes all races with or out without DLC have access to this passive. Helpful for all builds. Can't see how any passive could be more balanced than this.

EldritchPenguin · March 2017

worsttankever wrote: »

All classes all races with or out without DLC have access to this passive. Helpful for all builds. Can't see how any passive could be more balanced than this.

And it even has a tradeoff; losing more recovery/cost reduction in favor of higher base stats.

idk · March 2017

Smepic wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

They're balanced in that you lose benefits from your armour skills as well.

They would be more balanced however if ZOS ever untied resource values from damage of skills.

@Turelus

Let's see what I gain if I wear seven light armour vs. five light, one medium and one heavy armour.

Seven light armour:
Reduces cost of Magicka spells by 6% (2300 Magicka * 0,94 = 2162)

Increases Magicka Recovery by 8% (1500 Magicka Recovery * 0,08 = 120)

Five light, one medium and one heavy armour:
Increases Magicka, Health and Stamina by 6% (35,000 Magicka * 1,06 = 37,100. 16,000 Health * 1,06 = 16,960. 9,000 Stamina * 1,06 = 9,540)

Increases Armour and Spell Resistance by 362, as well as 1978 from the heavy and medium armour pieces, meaning 3,5% mitigation (2340 / 660 = 3,54)

Increases Health Recovery by 4%

You restore 186 Magicka and Stamina each time you are hit, once every 4 seconds, meaning 93 Magicka and Stamina Recovery (186 / 2 = 93)

Increases Health by 2% (16,960 * 1,02 = 17,299)

Increases Stamina Recovery by 4%

Reduces the cost of sneaking by 7%

Reduces the cost of your detection area by 5%

Now tell me why you shouldn't take advantage of the passive.

Your points do not support your argument about balance.
.
Without that there is not argument other than your opinion you do not like it. Considering that it works well for almost everyone else the current system is considered to be working well and certainly not causing a balance issue by any means..

Villious · March 2017

Jaeysa wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

Oh no! Have you seen the stats that you get when you eat food? PVP MIN-MAXERS ALL EAT FOOD! THAT'S UNBALANCED! CHANGE IT NOW!

Don't be ridiculous.

As other have put it, every class, every player has access to this passive. The use of this passive also means trading away the benefits from the user's main armor type. Many PvPers choose to go 7M or 7H instead of 5/1/1 because for their build and playstyle the extra stats aren't worth the lost armor passives. Tell me again how that's not balanced? LOL.

My thing isn't that it's not balanced - it's that personally I don't feel that a PVPer should have to PVE in order to be competitive. Play how you want and all that. It'd be a fairly easy fix - just disable mettle during pvp.

Just like when a pvp hater must pvp to get the only stamina heal in the game? To get rapid and caltrops? Is that what you're referring to?

SpazzmanNDQ · March 2017

Don't see how its bad I play on console I've had the game since it first came out, have six max characters and never got my undaunted past 2. Yet I didnt think it wasn't right that other people stats were higher and it wasn't fair. On my 7th character I've found interests in dungeons so maybe he will get the passive.

But something that is available to everyone if they chose to put a little time into it can't be deemed unbalanced or not fair to those who chose not to get it. Hell dungeons are pretty easy you can solo most of them on normal and get the xp to level it up.

Turelus · March 2017

SpazzmanNDQ wrote: »

Don't see how its bad I play on console I've had the game since it first came out, have six max characters and never got my undaunted past 2. Yet I didnt think it wasn't right that other people stats were higher and it wasn't fair. On my 7th character I've found interests in dungeons so maybe he will get the passive.

But something that is available to everyone if they chose to put a little time into it can't be deemed unbalanced or not fair to those who chose not to get it. Hell dungeons are pretty easy you can solo most of them on normal and get the xp to level it up.

I think the complaint is it's one of those systems where there is no choice balance.

OP is saying it's a X is so much better than Y, you must always have X.

Magdalina · March 2017

Turelus wrote: »

SpazzmanNDQ wrote: »

Don't see how its bad I play on console I've had the game since it first came out, have six max characters and never got my undaunted past 2. Yet I didnt think it wasn't right that other people stats were higher and it wasn't fair. On my 7th character I've found interests in dungeons so maybe he will get the passive.

But something that is available to everyone if they chose to put a little time into it can't be deemed unbalanced or not fair to those who chose not to get it. Hell dungeons are pretty easy you can solo most of them on normal and get the xp to level it up.

I think the complaint is it's one of those systems where there is no choice balance.

OP is saying it's a X is so much better than Y, you must always have X.

It's a passive that you profit from even if you wear 7/0/0 without sacrificing anything for it so yes, you're always better off having it rather than not having. Just like you're always better off having your racial and class passives unlocked (well, most of them anyway) rather than not. Only difference UD one takes a bit longer to get. What's so horribly unbalanced about having good passives?

Duiwel · March 2017

Only have it on one out of my 12 chars cause I couldn't be bothered I am not going to spend my entire play time just on pledges for this passive even though I want it.

Perhaps one day.

Wreuntzylla · March 2017

Biro123 wrote: »

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

I would have agreed with you when undaunted experience was a long slog. However, now you get undaunted experience for sneezing in a dungeon, and I've seen people max their passives in a handful of hours.

That may be the case if you have a very one-dimensional viewpoint..

For those of us who just like to PVP - and don't like doing dungeons, hate pledges, dailies and so don't have a regular dungeon group its one hell of a grind.. in fact I just finished it for the first ever time after 9 months playing. It is a VERY long slog.

Its also VERY useful to many PVP setups in all aspects... my magsorc... around 2.5k more magica is huge.. more health - great.. more stam - that helps with one of the main magsorc weaknesses..
Wearing different armour types... hm, a bit more resists? can't complain.. a little resource return (constitution) - all good, esp. stam.. dodge cost reduction? all good.

Its has made a BIG difference to my PVP performance.

I also agree with the view that % stat boosts are bad. Especially as stats get higher and higher as the relative strength of these boosts get proportionally stronger. 6% of 10k isn't much.. but 6% of 55k? That's significant.

You assume too much. I do have a very one-dimensional viewpoint, but it isn't PvE, it's PvP... It was a year and a half into the game before my first toon had the passives. I not only hated the dungeons, the undaunted exp was paltry in comparison to the time investment. I would run 2-3 dungeons with friends that are always trying to get me to PvE, watch my undaunted needle move half a mm, lose my ability to cope, thank them politely, and disappear back into PvP for a few months. It's kind of like what people go through when they try to quit smoking.

The last time I decided to get the passives, after some teeth grinding and wailing, I was stunned that the dungeon took a total of about 15min and I received over 50 undaunted exp from it and a skill point. A couple hours later and my first toon had the passives, more skill points than I knew what to do with, some usable gear and I didn't feel like scooping out my eyeballs with a rusty spoon.

Mind you, I don't have a single PvE suit to use and run dungeons with full impen... Yet I can solo most of the normal dungeons spamming one skill while catching up on walking dead, and have run direfrost multiple times for hulking Draugr weapons (can't finish that one due to a 2-person door mechanic though). Hulking is worth it for PvP, my Argonian templar has 38k stam. Ran veteran twice with PvE friends and have two rings, one my drop, one someone else's. My point is that even if you hate it, it's not a big time investment and you reap quite a few rewards.

You can use the group finder to PuG if you don't have any friends to group with. Admittedly, I would rather reach for the rusty spoon than pug, and have never done so in this game, but it's there, and some people I know have had great experiences using it.

THEDKEXPERIENCE · March 2017

Myth Busting Time!

Myth: You cannot PVP effectively without Undaunted level 7 unlocked.

Busted: I've been doing it for years, and might reach it today. Also, I have 47,870 magic on my Templar without it. Hopefully tonight it will be 49,306. I figure by 2019 I might get to level 9 and 50,742.

[Deleted User] · March 2017

The user and all related content has been deleted.

Merlin13KAGL · March 2017

It's about the most balanced thing out there, honestly.

It's the same for everyone, it's quickly obtained. All it does is beef up your already selected distribution of stats.

It's going to make your max stat bigger by a larger flat value than your min stat - same as the next guy.

You're looking at a difference of 1200 in a single stat vs you and the next guy, and that's if there's already a 20k difference to start.

The only instance where this has any kind of 'large' effect is if you don't have the passive...in which case, go get the passive.

You get the option to choose between a partial additional bonus from an armor type, or 2%-4% from UM.

EDIT: And for the self-quote portion of your OP, most of those benefits have nothing to do with UM, they have to do with the armor types, thus being irrelevant to your argument.

THEDKEXPERIENCE · March 2017

How are you all getting this done so quickly????

It's been almost 2 years and I'm at 6.999. I only discovered Balrog about 2 months ago so his delves have helped, but that aside ... man ... you PVErs are crazy fast at this leveling thing.

alexkdd99 · March 2017

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

How are you all getting this done so quickly????

It's been almost 2 years and I'm at 6.999. I only discovered Balrog about 2 months ago so his delves have helped, but that aside ... man ... you PVErs are crazy fast at this leveling thing.

It's really simple. Go to your achievements window and see which ones you done have. You get achievements for doing the hard mode of each dungeon. You get the for speed runs, no death runs. There are quite a few achievements to get you to undaunted 9 now.

I have gotten all the hard mode, most speed and most no death runs on my main. And I did all of it while pugging.

Just as they have made ava easier to rank up, they also made undaunted easier.

IronCrystal · March 2017

Yes, undaunted leveling is really easy. It takes me a week to get level 9.

I'm gonna leave a quote from a recent thread talking about how to get undaunted xp.

Astrid_V wrote: »

Experience points for undaunted skill line from achievements:

Completing normal dungeon for the 1st time - 10xp
Completing veteran dungeon for the 1st time - 10xp
No death - 10xp
Speed run - 10xp
Hard mode - 10xp
Completing non-dlc veteran pledge - 10xp
Completing non-dlc normal pledge - 5xp
Repeatable Bolgrul's daily quests - 5xp
Completing hard mode vet pledge - 20xp

Also experience can be gained from achievements like:

Dungeon and trial blocker/healer/damage dealer
Dungeon lord
Pledges done

And more.

Note: I always just queue up for vet versions and pug the hard modes. Most non-dlc dungeons are a piece of cake. Just takes slightly longer. That will guarantee you 30xp per dungeon you do, in addition to any other achievements you work towards or complete (extra 10xp if you speed run as well.)

If the dungeon you do happens to be a pledge, that's another 20xp on top.

You need 200 xp per level for the last few levels. It's really not that difficult.

Also, you get bonus xp for completing "all" dungeons in an alliance (if you look at requirements, its actually just the version 1s).

It's pretty easy to level up undaunted. Doesn't take "months" like some are suggesting.