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Longstanding issues with ESO I hope the ZoS can improve come Morrowind and beyond (long!)

Joy_Division
Joy_Division
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Just some observations regarding what I think are issues with the “big picture” issues in ESO that have persisted for too long, still with us patch after patch. Apologies for the length, but I prefer to explain to a potential dev, whether @ZOS_GinaBruno or someone else, why I feel the way I do.

I think It’s a mistake to have three different rulesets (PVE, PvP with Battlespirit, no CP PvP) when abilities, gear, and combat mechanics have the same functionality What is fine for one is going to be busted in the other two. Siege, poisons, and procs are the worst and most obvious offenders; these are manageable in CP campaigns (probably because they were balanced/tested under those conditions), however are problematic in Azura’s Star. This is also the root cause of the dreaded “stop nerfing PvE because of PvP” complaints; it's really tough to just put a 50% Battlespirit mechanic on everything and think that will reign in the power creep.

What’s worse is it’s hard to have a balance discussion amongst the community. Those who play CP will say siege isn’t doing enough damage whereas those in Azura’s Star will say it’s doing too much.

I'm not sure it was a good idea to have a post “end-game” progression system with so much power. This error is compounded in that the CP system has too many stars that are mechanically weak. This basically means even with a CP cap, all of us have the “good” stars that grant our character’s a tremendous amount of flat power progression; the whole point of build diversity is moot, we are all just (a lot) more powerful. The content ZoS releases to us is reasonably balanced for a few months and then in two patches is a joke because we just “stack and burn” through it.

I understand it took months to create the CP system and it will take months to reform it. Do it. The CP system creates a lot of problems. Make it such there aren’t obvious “power” stars and passives for us to take. Post “end-game” progression ought to be a way to customize our characters by picking stuff that either augments our abilities or allows us to do interesting things beyond the scope of our skill-lines. Also, give back the power that was taken away from the base game back so everyone has access to it and there isn’t so much disparity between “max level” players. This would make such that you aren’t more super powerful the more CPs you get (yeah balance!), rather your character is more versatile and unique (yeah build variety!).

Exactly how does ZoS plan on balancing things such that they work in CP PvP and not be busted in non-CP PvP? Please pick one system, I don’t care which.


The one-trait to rule them all for weapons and armor makes for a stale meta; combined with an RNG system it makes rewards frustrating rather than fun. On the very first day the PTS came out with the revised traits, @Asayre made it crystal clear that it was sharpened or bust for everything except a specific high-end raid spec. And hundreds of vMA runs later, people still haven’t gotten the sharpened weapon they are looking for. This is a terrible system that has persisted way too long.

We don’t need a token system. We need a reward system that gives us interesting, different, and viable drops. I humbly suggest traits that don’t give flat percentages to damage such that we can’t easily quantify what is best-in-slot and what is decon trash. This would make it such we don’t want to throw our computer out the window and unsubscribe to ESO after 100 vMA runs, while also make it so we all aren’t running cookie-cutter builds. Win win.


I think ZoS puts too much trust in your data collection numbers to verify “balance.” Sometime last year, @ZOS_RichLambert posted a chart that indicates roughly the same number of max CP players are wearing light, medium, and heavy armor, thus insinuating that there was an acceptable balance.

I play two characters in PvP for roughly the same amount of time: my Sorcerer and my Templar. My Sorcerer uses light armor and my Templar wears heavy. Even though my playtime between both is equivalent, I do not think their relative strengths are. The only reason I wear light on my sorcerer is because I run in a group with a full complement of healers and support builds that can allow me to get away with chasing 10% crit bonus while wearing substandard gear. If you plan on getting attacked and don’t have a raid full of players who keep you upright, heavy is miles better and it’s not even close.

I’m also sure ZoS’s data is telling them there are just as many Nords as Dunmer. That doesn’t mean we Nords think the race is good as a Dunmer. No, it means that we Nords are uncomfortable changing a character we’ve grown attached to playing and begrudgingly accept that in every single fight, every dungeon run, every day we play, we do so at a disadvantage.

Why we Nords are resentful of other races:
Mostly because they are milk-drinkers. Our best passive “rugged” gives us 6% damage reduction, which on paper sounds appealing. Putting aside that 90% of the players in this game (DPS and Healers) would be better suited going for a damage or regen oriented passive, Rugged fails in one fundamental respect: not all damage mitigation/reduction is the same because it is subject to diminishing returns and doesn’t equally stack the way damage bonuses do. It’s not always -6%. To put simply, the more sources of reduction/mitigation you have, the less effective the Nord’s passive becomes. Which is unfortunately counterproductive. Meanwhile the damage races suffer no such drawback because +X% is always +X%; in fact, the more damage they do, the better off their passives are.

I don’t even want to get started on the whole less than 5% of all ESO players have not even maxed out their storage. Those people who quit over constant nerfs and lagged-out PvP aren't upgrading the bag space.

The Crystal Blast morph. The Eclipse ability. The Jailbreaker armor set. DK vMA clears. ZoS’s metrics may suggest these are roughly comparable to the alternatives, but that doesn’t mean they are as good, as desirable, as effective, or as fun.


Balance patches have become something I'm apprehensive about rather than look forward to. I think every gamer understands the need for nerfs. We may not like them and don’t like to see our builds ruined, but we can live with them if the class/build was overperforming AND an attractive alternative is made available. It’s fair to say that many of us were profoundly disappointed with the Homestead patch notes – the changes for NPC and monsters were longer than classes!

How exactly is a player who runs stamina DPS in trials supposed to react to a 5-6% DPS loss when they are already struggling to get an invite? Yes, The NB strife skill was ridiculously cheap, but the class is struggling to compete in end-game group content. Slapping a 35% cost increase to their spammable isn’t making the class more attractive. Even non-Templars are scratching their heads over the removal of the stun on Blazing Spear. None of this stuff was over-performing, yet it all got nerfed anyway. It’s incredibly frustrating. Time would have been better spent coming up with a better solution to proc sets that just flat removing crits (which creates additional problems as well as ruins many sets that were working just fine).

Am I wrong in thinking that a balance patch should be the opportunity to look forward to exploring new builds and new possibilities? I’ve been running the same healer build since September 2015! Spellpower cure, combat prayer, elemental drain, breath of life, no Monster set, *yawn*.


The Power Creep has made the game problematic. Related to the CP point above. We ignore boss fight mechanics in PvE. The daily Undaunted dungeons are so easy (or I am too strong, take your pick) that my healer can also Tank them. PvP is such that players only die when they are insta-killed by Destro ultimates and proc sets, otherwise they instantly heal back to full.

This masks a more fundamental problem. The numbers are so far out of control even tiny percentage amount to wins and losses. We are so strong, ironically, we are scared to death of even the slightest nerf means we won’t be able to compete. Back in the “good old days,” when I did 800 DPS, losing 5% was trivial because it was a mere 40 damage per second. Now when I’m doing 50,000 DPS and have to eat a 5% nerf, I’m losing 2500 damage per second which will prevent me from getting invited to Trial raids or killing my PvP opponent (and thus allowing her to instant-heal up to full because that’s how PvP goes). There is no longer a margin for error.


I don’t feel special as a Crafter. The mats drain for building your own houses is insane. And to top it off, housing has completely destroyed my storage space, taking up dozens and dozens of extra slots while doing nothing to alleviate it. How is this even possible? Isn’t the whole point of homes to store stuff? Housing is just cute gold sink that serves zero practical functionality. Don’t get me wrong, I like “cute,” just not when cute makes inventory management a nightmare.

I can’t think of the last time I actually crafted something I wanted to wear. Too busy chasing Sharpened weapon or divines/Impenetrable armor pieces for X set. Why am I collecting these style motifs if I never will use them for anything?

There is only one of the six crafting professions that I feel is legitimately rewarding: Alchemy. I use this every day I play on every character and not only that, I am given a small in-game combat bonus that matters for being an Alchemist. This is the model each profession should aspire to be.

For instance, take provisioning
Right now this is so ridiculously easy to max and acquire mats for, I do not see the harm in attaching an small irreplaceable combat bonus such that alchemy has because even the most casual player can and will have access to it. Adding duration when I literally give away 100 purple foods to players who are short is not an incentive or making me feel that my provisioning craft is benefitting me in some way. Ideally, we would pick 1 of a possible 10 or so minor additional buffs for consuming our own food/drink (say little more stats or little more potential ultimate gain or little more move speed, etc) – this not only makes us feel special for making this stuff, but also help diversify us as players (here is something the champion system could help with; these sorts of little bonus rather than just flat power boosts to everything). I also think there is a lot of bloat in provisioning in that I know 100 different recipes, yet only ever use two of them. Drinks are especially problematic because in every PvE instance, we need health from food to avoid one shots. I would love more variety from provisioning that just flat buffs to stats, especially since the health buff from food is necessary for us to do dungeons/trials.


The inventory system is too much of a hassle If you log in to play most days, are reasonably competitive, and try to get the most out of this game (crafting your own stuff, trying to build your own house, PvP and PvP, etc.), then you own numerous “pack mules” with maxed out bag space, fully upgraded your bank, and still spend a frustrating amount of time logging in and out of characters moving gear around. I suffer through this aggravation even though I have a crafting bag.

I feel compelled to save any gear I get with sharpened/impen&divines traits because these traits are so much better than the others and the RNG drop system will mean if I decon, I might never get it again. I save this stuff because sudden and sweeping balance changes will make today’s good set garbage and yesterday’s garbage set good. Anyone who is at all competitive has dozens and dozens of gear pieces “just in case.” Oh, I PvP so that means slots are unnecessarily taken up by oils, ballistas, forward camps, etc., that for some reason do not stack.

And it’s not just the gear. The housing system has made it such that if you care to build one yourself, you have to have a crafting bag. Because every character you play needs to have empty spots for alchemical resins, heartwood, furniture designs, new motif stones, etc., dozens of slots and that doesn’t even account for that every chair, bed, cabinet, and wax banana you make eats up an inventory space until you actually place it in house … and the 8 forgive if you actually want to make changes to your house – are we supposed to decon that Breton desk that cost us 10,000 gold of mats to make because I can’t fit it in my bank?

We still are sitting on the same max bagspace and bank for the past year and a half despite the fact ZoS has added dozens of new motifs, dozens of new gear sets, an entirely new set of raw materials, and other stuff. Why have you not also given us an inventory upgrade to handle all this new stuff you have introduced into the game? You talk a lot about quality of life upgrades. An end to the inventory nightmare is by far the best quality of life upgrade you can deliver for us.


The grind in this game has always been too painful It’s like there is this fear that if there isn’t stuff to futilely chase such as CP, a sharpened vMA destruction staff, an impenetrable valkyn skoria helm, Ra Gada motifs, etc., we won’t play the game for its own merits. We all have horror stories. Here are three of mine:
  • In the original Dragonstar Arena (before they upgraded it to 160 CPs), I completed hundreds of runs, going all the ways back to November 2014, and never once received a Master’s Inferno staff, to say nothing of a decent trait.
  • I have killed all the Hew’s Bane bosses collectively hundreds of times and still haven’t gotten Outlaw chests, shoulders, swords, or shields.
  • Burning Spellweave one-handed weapon and Shield. Have City of Ash I memorized such that I know where all the heavy sacks spawn. Never did get a one-handed weapon and just received two shields, or course training and prosperous. Haven’t even bothered to PvP with my DK this patch.

I will acknowledge three very good decisions ZoS made to help alleviate this. It is generally pretty easy to grind XP with the pots and holiday promotions. The group trade loot mechanic is probably the best feature they ever added to ESO. The guaranteed drop on bosses. All very welcome.

However, two fundamental problems still exist: the “one-trait to rule them all” philosophy combined with an obvious best-in-slot gear makes it such competitive gamers are disinclined to experiment with potentially interesting alternatives. So all those powered Jailbreaker dagger drops, while guaranteed, aren’t helping. Also the drop rate in single-player questing for stuff such as motifs is way too low. I have to ask this, but is the Trophy achievement for collecting monster parts (like “Chattering Skulls,” Perfectly Balanced Gyros”) broken? I have done a lot of PvE and have been playing since launch and I have only completely one [!] monster set (Dwemer: Whirring Dynamo and Perfectly Balanced Gyro).

ZoS,, I think ESO is a fun enough game to stand on its merits. I’m pretty sure I can speak for most of us if I say I promise we will continue playing the game even once we get our Burning Spellweave sword. In fact, I might be inclined to play it more. I’m not saying to hand me stuff on my first run. Somewhere there is a balance. I think the best way to alleviate the issue is to make it such that there isn’t one obvious best-in-slot item I need such that I would be intrigued to experiment and play with interesting alternative gear that does drop.

*******

I do enjoy playing ESO, very much so. These are just ways I think I would enjoy it more!

Edited by Joy_Division on March 16, 2017 6:01AM
Make Rush of Agony "Monsters only." People should not be consecutively crowd controlled in a PvP setting. Period.
  • Theodard
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    I have nothing that I can realistically add to this. Well thought out, well written, and spot on.
  • Nerouyn
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    I have to admit I skimmed so apologise if I missed it, but I would add that stat scaling is another of the game's most fundamental problems.

    Health, stamina and magicka should be resource pools only. Magicka scaling as an addon was only popular in Skyrim because that was a simple solution to the stupid problem of magic damage not scaling anywhere near as effectively as physical in the vanilla game.

    If damage didn't scale with stats, players would be much less likely to put everything into just one pool.

    If damage didn't scale with stats, players would have much more variety when it comes to morphs. Because presently many morphs aren't choices at all. If you're specced for stamina you take the stamina morph.
  • GrimJaw
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    Agreed.
  • FlyLionel
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    Say no more, better crafted items(sets) is a dead must; maybe a one slot bonus weapon? Many ways. I loved how the Halloween festival farming for those motifs were a safe/sure drop. And that eventually within a day(for me) or two you'd get everything you'd want. This is an mmo and there should be a grind but damn; well written indeed. Zos will read this.
    The Flyers
  • gp1680
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    A wall of text, but one worth reading. I'd like to add in there game performance. ZoS needs to address this. The lag and disconnects in the game, especially PVP, is getting intolerable. If you're going to continue to add new sets, housing, classes, skills, etc, they need to function properly. ZoS still "lags" behind, in my opinion.
  • idk
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    I'd classify this as a ramble vs a rant. Btw tl;dr. I tried to read but got maybe close to half way through and forgot what was even talked about at the beginning. It really helps to be concise and to the point to keep someone attention.

    I went back to the top to see what was said near the beginning.

    1st. I've never seen decent PvP that followed the same rules as PvE when the game had significant PvE. Battle spirit is basically requires and works decent. Anything can use a tweak. Same with CP/non CP campaigns. Not reason battle spirit cannot be different between the two.

    Scrolled back up to remember what we best. Before traits change it was two traits to rule them. Nirn for magika and sharpened for stam. Precise numbers f with a well organized group. So we went from 2 to one. Humm. Yea, would be nice if improvements were made but the reality is it's not all that different than before.
  • NordSwordnBoard
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    Well written post, easy to read, and it summarizes a lot of current player sentiment from the forums imo.

    So much of the game's variety does not get used, while a great portion of it is overused to the point of saturation.




    Fear is the Mindkiller
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