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Warlord and Magician: Alternatives without entirely removing them
austinwalter87ub17_ESO
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Warlord and Magician are necessary for today's content. Removing them entirely is a no go. This is far too drastic of a change if nothing else will be addressed to balance the costs of abilities.
1. Instead of removing it entirely. Make it a passive higher up in the corresponding constellation. i.e. Magician now unlocks at 75 points and reduces costs by 10% instead of 16% max.
2. Reduce the effectiveness of the two without flat out removing it. I.e. Magician reduces ability costs by 8% instead of 16%.
3. (This being my favorite methodology because CP placements will be spread out between sustain and damage which will lower the ceiling and raise the floor) Magician and Arcanist should be moved to the Blue Signs. Magicka users will have to make more meaningful choices between damage and sustain because the Reduction stars within the CP system will also be shared amongst the points also used for Increasing Damage. Warlord and Mooncalf should remain where they are. Mighty should be moved to Green Signs. (Mighty being moved to Green means Stamina users will also have to choose wiser between damage and sustain). Precise Strikes should be sent to Green Signs. Thamauturge should be moved to red signs.
#3 Would be the most beneficial because you'll have 200 points to spend between magician, arcanist, and elemental expert for example. With magician, arcanist, and elemental expert being in separate Colored Constellations players can max out their damage and sustain. My proposed methodology makes players choose more wisely between damage and sustain. You can spend all your points in damage but lack sustain, balance it out, or go high sustain. No longer are both options able to be achieved.
I'm fine with balance tweaks and I'm okay with sustain being more necessary to prevent damage stacking without consequence. However, you never start off a balance tweak with large changes such as this. Smaller steps are required and deserve to be assessed first.
Putting the cart before the horse.
Their removal will encourage more min/maxxing and not less. Races which aren't ideal will be hurt even worst. It will force everyone to entirely rebuild their characters.
@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_JessicaFolsom
Tag Wroebel for me please. Haha
Edited by austinwalter87ub17_ESO on March 16, 2017 1:06AM 1. Instead of removing it entirely. Make it a passive higher up in the corresponding constellation. i.e. Magician now unlocks at 75 points and reduces costs by 10% instead of 16% max.
2. Reduce the effectiveness of the two without flat out removing it. I.e. Magician reduces ability costs by 8% instead of 16%.
3. (This being my favorite methodology because CP placements will be spread out between sustain and damage which will lower the ceiling and raise the floor) Magician and Arcanist should be moved to the Blue Signs. Magicka users will have to make more meaningful choices between damage and sustain because the Reduction stars within the CP system will also be shared amongst the points also used for Increasing Damage. Warlord and Mooncalf should remain where they are. Mighty should be moved to Green Signs. (Mighty being moved to Green means Stamina users will also have to choose wiser between damage and sustain). Precise Strikes should be sent to Green Signs. Thamauturge should be moved to red signs.
#3 Would be the most beneficial because you'll have 200 points to spend between magician, arcanist, and elemental expert for example. With magician, arcanist, and elemental expert being in separate Colored Constellations players can max out their damage and sustain. My proposed methodology makes players choose more wisely between damage and sustain. You can spend all your points in damage but lack sustain, balance it out, or go high sustain. No longer are both options able to be achieved.
I'm fine with balance tweaks and I'm okay with sustain being more necessary to prevent damage stacking without consequence. However, you never start off a balance tweak with large changes such as this. Smaller steps are required and deserve to be assessed first.
Putting the cart before the horse.
Their removal will encourage more min/maxxing and not less. Races which aren't ideal will be hurt even worst. It will force everyone to entirely rebuild their characters.
@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_JessicaFolsom
Tag Wroebel for me please. Haha
PC and PS4 (bring back character transfers please?)
Templar Extraordinaire
Templar Extraordinaire
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austinwalter87ub17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭Taleof2Cities wrote: »Did we have to start yet another new thread on this topic??
Yes. Because none of the other threads try to promote alternatives and better ideas.PC and PS4 (bring back character transfers please?)
Templar Extraordinaire4 -
Taleof2Cities✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭austinwalter87ub17_ESO wrote: »Taleof2Cities wrote: »Did we have to start yet another new thread on this topic??
Yes. Because none of the other threads try to promote alternatives and better ideas.
Has ZOS confirmed it's out of the game?0 -
Thealteregoroman✭✭✭✭✭
✭austinwalter87ub17_ESO wrote: »Taleof2Cities wrote: »Did we have to start yet another new thread on this topic??
Yes. Because none of the other threads try to promote alternatives and better ideas.
This is prob pretty much set in stone........I do give you an A for effort though. I guess we shall see what ACTUALLY happends.****Master Healer...****0 -
austinwalter87ub17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭Taleof2Cities wrote: »austinwalter87ub17_ESO wrote: »Taleof2Cities wrote: »Did we have to start yet another new thread on this topic??
Yes. Because none of the other threads try to promote alternatives and better ideas.
Has ZOS confirmed it's out of the game?
According to PAX East gameplay it has been taken out of the game. A big nerf to sustain is coming either way. Once ZOS sets their sights on something it's very unlikely to be reconsidered. Either way a nerf is coming to the CP. The best we can hope for is taking smaller steps. Developers always shoot themselves in the foot by taking too big of a step in such changes.PC and PS4 (bring back character transfers please?)
Templar Extraordinaire5 -
Chronicburn✭✭✭✭Good luck ... if they are gonna remove em they are gonna remove em ... devs don't give a **** what we want unless they think it will hurt the company wallet ... sorry1
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Tannus15✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭100% this.
The problem with the current CP structure is that we're forced to choose between magi and stamina, NOT dps or sustain.
This is why you're ALWAYS better off choosing blue or green and just sticking to it which is the cause of the current "have your cake and eat it too" with sustain and dps.
Breaking up the blue and green trees this way will lets us make meaningful build choices, like high magi regen with low megi damage for stam builds to keep up their magi support skills OR increased magi damage as well because I want to use ashen grip and red mountain because flaming melee coolness!
OMG builds would be SO much more interesting with these options.1 -
NewBlacksmurf✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Just have stam in med armor and mag in light armor passives
Free up lots of CP-PC (PTS)/Xbox One: NewBlacksmurf
~<{[50]}>~ looks better than *5010 -
austinwalter87ub17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭NewBlacksmurf wrote: »Just have stam in med armor and mag in light armor passives
Free up lots of CP
They would have to boost regeneration and reduction in both armor types by at least 10% to makeup for the changes to CPEdited by austinwalter87ub17_ESO on March 14, 2017 2:05AMPC and PS4 (bring back character transfers please?)
Templar Extraordinaire0 -
andreasranasen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Why is cp even an issue?#VMATOKENSYSTEM #WEAPONDYE #TRAITCHANGE #CROWNCRATELOVER- Alliance/Platform: Aldemerii - PS4/NA - CP 800+
- Mag Sorc: Arya Rosendahl - Altmer - Highelf
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Anti_Virus✭✭✭✭✭
✭NewBlacksmurf wrote: »Just have stam in med armor and mag in light armor passives
Free up lots of CP
What about heavy armor? No Cost reduction makes it so difficult to play.Power Wealth And Influence.0 -
austinwalter87ub17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭Anti_Virus wrote: »NewBlacksmurf wrote: »Just have stam in med armor and mag in light armor passives
Free up lots of CP
What about heavy armor? No Cost reduction makes it so difficult to play.
Heavy armor gets resources returned from taking damage. And you return additional resources by dealing heavy attack damage with heavy armor.
I could see constitution getting buffed in order to compensate for the changes to CP.
Edited by austinwalter87ub17_ESO on March 14, 2017 2:14AMPC and PS4 (bring back character transfers please?)
Templar Extraordinaire1 -
ADarklore✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I love all the "sky is falling" posts. How about people actually run Cost Reduction glyphs in their jewelry instead of stacking damage glyphs, problem solved. They stated before they wanted to bring the damage ceiling down, and now players will have to choose between sustain or damage.CP: 2112 ** ESO+ ** ~~ ***** Strictly a solo PvE quester *****
~~Started Playing: May 2015 | Stopped Playing: July 2025 | Returned: March 2026~~1 -
austinwalter87ub17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭I love all the "sky is falling" posts. How about people actually run Cost Reduction glyphs in their jewelry instead of stacking damage glyphs, problem solved. They stated before they wanted to bring the damage ceiling down, and now players will have to choose between sustain or damage.
Lol. It's not that simple. Reduction enchants will only do so much. The changes they're proposing makes sustain builds impossible. Plus you create a new problem by going their route. Reduction enchants will be mandatory. No other enchants will be viable.
Their proposed changes does nothing but pigeon hole people into certain races and builds even worst than now.
PC and PS4 (bring back character transfers please?)
Templar Extraordinaire0 -
Tannus15✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I love all the "sky is falling" posts. How about people actually run Cost Reduction glyphs in their jewelry instead of stacking damage glyphs, problem solved. They stated before they wanted to bring the damage ceiling down, and now players will have to choose between sustain or damage.
I agree, I don't mind the changes and I approve of what they are attempting to do by forcing a choice between pure damage and sustain. Right now at 600cp we get everything. All the damage and all the sustain.
There is literally no choice apart from "do I use stamina or magicka"
However, I think their goals would be better achieved by splitting CP along magi damage & sustain == blue, stamina / physical damage & sustain == green which would ALSO allow the possibility of hybrid builds.
The problem is that their solution is a slight adjustment down in DPS, and that's it. We will swap out 1 or 2 jewellery enchants for regen instead of damage and that's it. Maybe someone will crunch some numbers and work out that 1 regen + 1 cost reduction is the new "meta" for sustain and 1 month later we'll all be doing that.
Job done, big deal.
What's worse is that races with stam / magi regen will be stronger than before since their passive regen will matter more.Edited by Tannus15 on March 14, 2017 3:44AM1 -
austinwalter87ub17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭I love all the "sky is falling" posts. How about people actually run Cost Reduction glyphs in their jewelry instead of stacking damage glyphs, problem solved. They stated before they wanted to bring the damage ceiling down, and now players will have to choose between sustain or damage.
I agree, I don't mind the changes and I approve of what they are attempting to do by forcing a choice between pure damage and sustain. Right now at 600cp we get everything. All the damage and all the sustain.
There is literally no choice apart from "do I use stamina or magicka"
However, I think their goals would be better achieved by splitting CP along magi damage & sustain == blue, stamina / physical damage & sustain == green which would ALSO allow the possibility of hybrid builds.
The problem is that their solution is a slight adjustment down in DPS, and that's it. We will swap out 1 or 2 jewellery enchants for regen instead of damage and that's it. Maybe someone will crunch some numbers and work out that 1 regen + 1 cost reduction is the new "meta" for sustain and 1 month later we'll all be doing that.
Job done, big deal.
What's worse is that races with stam / magi regen will be stronger than before since their passive regen will matter more.
I don't mind the fact that they're attempting to make players choose between more damage or more sustain. What I do mind is HOW they're going about doing this.
I agree with you that Magicka Damage, Regen, and Reduction should all coordinate with Blue CP.
The same with green.
#3 in my OP follows this route.
Red Constellations are pretty tolerable where they're at.Edited by austinwalter87ub17_ESO on March 14, 2017 3:51AMPC and PS4 (bring back character transfers please?)
Templar Extraordinaire1 -
austinwalter87ub17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭andreasranasen wrote: »Why is cp even an issue?
Because it exists?PC and PS4 (bring back character transfers please?)
Templar Extraordinaire0 -
TheStealthDude✭✭✭✭How are Warlord and Magician "Necessary" for today's content? Are you saying that content can't be completed without those 2 CP skills?0 -
Nelson_Rebel✭✭✭✭✭
✭TheStealthDude wrote: »How are Warlord and Magician "Necessary" for today's content? Are you saying that content can't be completed without those 2 CP skills?
Show me any group at all that completes a CURRENT vet trial without themEdited by Nelson_Rebel on March 15, 2017 11:41PM0 -
austinwalter87ub17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭TheStealthDude wrote: »How are Warlord and Magician "Necessary" for today's content? Are you saying that content can't be completed without those 2 CP skills?
I don't believe Trials has ever been completed without them. Trials is scaled around CP existing as is VMA and VDSA. It is possible to beat vma and vdsa but the probability of someone being able to achieve this is nearly impossible. Those that do truly are remarkable players.
ZOS implemented too many DPS checks in end game content and the huge nerf to sustain would be incredibly detrimentalEdited by austinwalter87ub17_ESO on March 16, 2017 1:10AMPC and PS4 (bring back character transfers please?)
Templar Extraordinaire0