Balance changes I'd like to see for TESO:Morrowind

MaxwellC · March 2017

This is my perspective on what I feel balance needs to evolve into when Morrowind comes out.

Addressing Soft CC spam: One of the most annoying things to have to deal with is someone spamming Soft CCs like Talons, encase, bombard (think it's somewhat fixed), Ice staff destro touch/Heavy attack, and cripple grasp to name a few. People sit there spamming it to no end and unfortunately it has no counters unlike Hard CCs which provide a bit of relief (by no counters I mean immunity for x period when affected by a soft CC).
I feel what should be done is an immunity applied after you're affected by it (not as long as a Hard CC immunity).

Addressing Block casting: Block casting is one thing that really is annoying facing both stamina or magicka users who do this. You can Hard CC them but break frees come and go while depending if you're fighting a Mag user they can still deal a lot of damage while blocking through your hits. Each hit you deal takes off their stamina but with the combination of kiting to recover and applying pressure you can do it to no end. Stamina is no different and depending on the class it can be extremely annoying as one class provides an player based AoE (Sorcerer for those who do not know what I'm eluding to), it will deal pretty good damage as they wail on you block casting while animation canceling their dark deal to regain their stamina.
What I feel should happen

[*] Reduce output damage/healing by X percent while blocking.
[*] or when attempting to attack you will be automatically taken out of block when casting (Tough because animation cancelling requires you to use block once)
[*] A bit harsh but when attacking while blocking cost of each ability is increased by X percent (Tough because animation cancelling requires you to use block once)

Remove Bastion and shattering blows: People will probably well definitely be against this the most but I believe these two CPs should be removed entirely. I base this on the non CP as many people know shield stacking is a problem because you still have to fight through the damage shield applied within the 6 second margin (benefits healing ward users a lot). Many players cite that it's costly to maintain that consistently but you do not need to as it's just used to mitigate the damage as you heal to full.
Here's what I feel what should happen.

[*] Shield duration should return back to what it was post nerf
[*] Shields can still be stacked (using more than one shield)
[*] Bastion and shattering blows (shattering blows removed to be fair) should be removed entirely
[*] Apply diminishing returns on the secondary shield applied maybe 50% of the shields value.

Make damaging proc set share an internal cool-down: I don't feel that you should potentially have 3 different proc sets hit you all at once as that IMO is insane and definitely not balanced. The nerf to proc sets is fine but to make an example out of the popular class that uses proc sets for ganking i.e. Nightblades; their ultimate incapacitating strike still buffs the proc sets within the time frame it's buff is up. Even without a Nightblade being an example, any class can provide pressure then potentially have all 3 sets proc almost at the same time killing the enemy in front of you.
What I believe should happen.

[*] A cool-down on damaging proc sets which would encourage players to rely more on their class skills or weapon skills rather than armor killing someone.
[*] Proc sets should proc one at a time based on the type of armor. So for example If I wear 2 velidreth 5 widow maker (chest/legs/waist/boots/gloves) and on my weapons I use dual wield viper and 3 piece jewelry viper; Widow will take priority than velidreth, then viper.

Mage's guild Empower should benefit only magic related abilities: I don't see why this isn't a thing but the empowerment provided by mage's light should only apply to magic related abilities not every ability. This has encouraged players to use this while in stealth to proc gank down enemies who don't expect anything to happen. This will make it so you will have to use your class skill or weapon ability to provide empowerment if you're a stamina character as this change benefits magic users.

Remove Healing received CP or change it to it only benefiting healing you receive from allies: Everyone knows that healing is extremely powerful especially those like myself who have access to major mending. I do not understand why healing receive also benefits you if not stacks with you when you have a CP tree that increases the healing you initiate. The class that will hurt the most is us DKs but I'm all about balance and stand by this decision. Healing received CP needs to be removed or changed so you only receive it's benefits from allies healing you, it should not stack giving you even more healing when another CP already provides that buff.

IMO these changes do not disrupt players significantly although those who rely on shields in solo instances like vMSA may need to change strategy. In trials I do not see this affected DPS/Healers/ or Tanks (unless the tank relies on healing themselves with vigor/self heals).

idk · March 2017

Shattering blows removed and shield duration lengthened.

Obviously changes desired from a magika user perspective. Really much of the OP is from that perspective. Nothing wrong with shields as they are (from a mostly magika users).

MaxwellC · March 2017

@Giles.floydub17_ESO elaborate that statement. I think you're saying that I'm being too favorable to magicka users and you think I'm basing it because I play magicka? If that's the case well unfortunately I only PvP with my Stam DK so... not sure where that assumption comes from.
If you read what was stated I even said to remove bastion and also provide diminishing returns on the second shield applied which would make it easier to fight someone who just stacks.
Playing during the non cp testing made it clear that shield stacking is most likely a problem due to bastion (CP) and that another shield can be erected while the current one is present.

Avran_Sylt · March 2017

Hmm. My thoughts on the proc set ICD would be that the meta would then just shift to gearing with one proc set, and then the best passive bonus sets or regen sets. Which, in my opinion. isn't a bad thing, but is essentially forcing players to choose a balanced approach. (overall dps, burst, and sustain). not a bad thing by a long shot, but would limit players looking to maximize their burst dps.

Shields are an interesting matter. I've got another idea on that front. Perhaps, after the first shield is cast, and another shield is cast, the game does the following:
checks to see which is higher, shield becomes the highest of the two values. the lesser shield then augments that shield to have physical/spell resistance equal to the lesser shield amount.
I.E : cast a 10000 damage absorbing shield. then cast a 13000 damage absorbing shield. end shield value is 13000 with 10000 resistances.

Or, make it such that only the highest shield value is applied, and they do not stack.

MaxwellC · March 2017

@Avran_Sylt
The way shields would work under that method would make them tanky as well has having a strong shield so that's way too over powered.
I'm fine with the highest value shield being applied while the other doesn't sort of like a major and minor shield but many players in the past came out against that hence why I came up with diminishing values but also the removal of bastion due to playing non CP which proved to me that I can bust through shields fairly easily on my stam DK which is limited to the weapon skill line.

MythicEmperor · March 2017

All they need to do is reimplement weapon misses for the true Morrowind experience

Izaki · March 2017

Whats the point in making shields last longer if you make them weaker?

idk · March 2017

MaxwellC wrote: »

@Giles.floydub17_ESO elaborate that statement. I think you're saying that I'm being too favorable to magicka users and you think I'm basing it because I play magicka? If that's the case well unfortunately I only PvP with my Stam DK so... not sure where that assumption comes from.
If you read what was stated I even said to remove bastion and also provide diminishing returns on the second shield applied which would make it easier to fight someone who just stacks.
Playing during the non cp testing made it clear that shield stacking is most likely a problem due to bastion (CP) and that another shield can be erected while the current one is present.

I do not need to elaborate. It speaks for itself. So you play stam. Maybe you get feeback from guildies or something.

Zos provided good sound justification for reducing shields to 6 seconds which has worked well for everyone except those who are challenged with change.

idk · March 2017

Oh, and more importantly, removing shattering blows is just an overall bad idea. Remove the only thing that helps damage against shields other than specific sets and call it balance? Not even remotely. Especially since your wanting to buff shields overall by lengthening the time.

Honestly, there may be a good idea up there. Certainly Zos needs to consider all ideas, though Zos looks at the big picture when they attempt to bring change and most of that picture is something most of us do not see.

Br1ckst0n · March 2017

While i definitly see the problem with some of the stuff these changes would completely screw over pve. Well if it would be implemented via the battle spirit it wouldnt but we all know that they wont do that.

Buffler · March 2017

thankgod you're not in charge of balancing

MaxwellC · March 2017

@Giles.floydub17_ESO
Buffing shields by removing bastion and calling for diminishing returns on the second shield applied that's a buff? Man I sure hope not because that sounds more like a nerf. Increasing duration was to be fair and not overly be hard on players who use shields.

Edit: No I do not get feedback from 'guildies' but as stated above I pulled this while PvPing and thought how badly would it effect trials from a tank perspective and DPS perspective which I believe all my suggestions except for block casting for tanks wouldn't be a dramatic effect (although healers should be able to sustain a tank easily anyway).

Also second thing: Shattering blows is not the only way to fight against shields lol... There's a armor set called 'Shield-breaker' if you have issues killing a shield stacking player then consider using that set. I'm a Stam DK so I'd have the most problems which I do.

Ajaxduo · March 2017

There are a lot of undaunted sets which need improvement.

STEVIL · March 2017

My comments:

Soft CC spam: Well, anything that provides immunity over time to CC effects should apply yo soft as well. otherwise, spam is spam - get hit by four force pulse in a row you get slammed by each - no different for soft CC.

Block casting: Block consumes resource - so attack the resource. Sounds like you are describing enemies who can outrun/evade to recover, beat all your cc and so on - which sounda a lot like OP as in "outplayed" not "over powered".

Shields: Current six second shields establish a single-shield as part of rotation standard play and also allows a multi-shield tanky low-to-no offense option. that seems trade-off and choices. So i am good with it.

Procs: Procs do inferior sustained DPS compared to less "visible" sets. if you apply a GPCD that takes their burst down to nominally or less than sufficient to do the job levels then they will go the way of the dodo.

Mage Guild Empower: this is one of the few cases where mage guild is useful for non-magica based. Just like how the trap in Fighters guild is useful for non-stam. i do not see any benefit in making these kinds of limited cross-overs not be cross-over.

Healing CP lines: Since some of the damage Cp lines can be setup with a double tree boost - triple if you include critc chance or crit damage. So it does not seem out of whack at all for healing out and healing in to be able to double on you healing yourself.

Tabbycat · March 2017

I would like to see them separate pvp skills from pve skills so pvp balancing stops messing up pve balancing.

I despise pvp for this reason.

MaxwellC · March 2017

@STEVIL
Regarding the healing CP; Damage CP such as mighty and crit damage has a counter to it which would be resistant and defender CPs. My thing is that healing received CP should act as it's worded so it increases the healing you receive from allies not from yourself as that just promotes imbalance in PvP in both stamina/magicka. Like I said my DK benefits a lot more from this but I still find this to be completely ridiculous in that sense.

Thank you for providing a response to each instead of complaining about one thing, I really appreciate constructive feedback such as this.

STEVIL · March 2017

MaxwellC wrote: »

@STEVIL
Regarding the healing CP; Damage CP such as mighty and crit damage has a counter to it which would be resistant and defender CPs. My thing is that healing received CP should act as it's worded so it increases the healing you receive from allies not from yourself as that just promotes imbalance in PvP in both stamina/magicka. Like I said my DK benefits a lot more from this but I still find this to be completely ridiculous in that sense.

Thank you for providing a response to each instead of complaining about one thing, I really appreciate constructive feedback such as this.

"As its worded" is IIRC a error in your understanding. healing received has always included healing from yourself.

i don't share your perception of how that passive should work. its currently consistent with other passives - like say the way argonian passives work.

And iirc isn't there a Cp tree for increasing your anti-healing capabilities - befoul or somesuch.

idk · March 2017

MaxwellC wrote: »

@Giles.floydub17_ESO
Buffing shields by removing bastion and calling for diminishing returns on the second shield applied that's a buff? Man I sure hope not because that sounds more like a nerf. Increasing duration was to be fair and not overly be hard on players who use shields.

Edit: No I do not get feedback from 'guildies' but as stated above I pulled this while PvPing and thought how badly would it effect trials from a tank perspective and DPS perspective which I believe all my suggestions except for block casting for tanks wouldn't be a dramatic effect (although healers should be able to sustain a tank easily anyway).

Also second thing: Shattering blows is not the only way to fight against shields lol... There's a armor set called 'Shield-breaker' if you have issues killing a shield stacking player then consider using that set. I'm a Stam DK so I'd have the most problems which I do.

You are not looking at the entire picture which is why you fail to understand (not suggesting agreement) what I mentioned previously.

Increasing duration of shields is a buff and is completely contradictory to what Zos wants with the use of shields. Absolutely runs afoul with it.

Additionally the diminishing returns only affects one class so it is unreasonable to call it a nerf to shields itself. You can say you are nerfing sorc shields but you cannot say your nerfing shields as a whole.

As for shattering blows, I already mentioned this and you are merely proving my point is saying it is not the only way I specifically mentioned your idea would require the use of specific armor sets, though I did not mention the specific set. In other words, your idea buffs shields further unless a specific set is used.

Oh, and I am not saying I have problems killing shield stacking players. I am saying the ideas presented in the first post are not well thought out if balance is the intention. Your follow up merely helps support what I have said.

Edit: And @STEVIL is correct in his response posted above. Healing received has always included healing one receives from their own actions. Just like a heal that affects allies always considers the caster an ally.

Stevil is also correct about Befouled to a degree. It increases effectiveness of healing reduction abilities but only skills and abilities that reduce healing received, not on it's own.

MaxwellC · March 2017

@Giles.floydub17_ESO
How does diminishing returns only effect one class? Anyone can shield stack as a mag user with annulment and healing ward. As I said before increasing the duration is only to keep the changes fair and not to take and not give anything in exchange.
I can say I am nerfing shields when I even asked for bastion to be removed with shattering blows as that's the issue when it comes to shield stacking is that you can directly increase the amount the shield can hold up by putting CP into bastion. Shattering blows takes away from 1 type of game play and if bastion were gone well you could entirely invest into offensive CPs so you would do more damage as a whole.
You stated that you do not have problems with killing shielded opponents but then speak about removal of shattering blows being terrible as if it's the only effective way to counter someone spamming shields.

If you played PvP during the non CP test it is extremely obvious to see that bastion played a massive part in shield stacking as any enemy who tried to during that patch was met with death pretty quickly.

Edit: If you have a problem with the duration then provide something to the mix, with bastion gone the shield won't hold up in PvP so why should shattering blows still remain if bastion is gone.

MaxwellC · March 2017

@STEVIL
Yeah there is a CP tree that increases the effect of healing reduction abilities but that is to counter the CP you can put into healing done which also influences the amount of healing you can do. My thing is why should two CPs influence your healing done when only one CP exists to counter it. It's strong if you build your class towards reducing enemy healing but it still does not make sense why it both should increase your healing instead of one increasing your allies healing while the other increases your direct healing ability.

mb10 · March 2017

You need to read about soft and hard caps lol because they're two different things with two different cooldowns

MaxwellC · March 2017

@mb10
Elaborate for me please.

mb10 · March 2017

@MaxwellC

A soft cap is something like talons or crippling cramp something that can immobilise you. There's other effects but I don't know then all by heart. It's worth a google search. This has its own cool down timer

A hard cap would be destructive touch, fossilise, mass hysteria etc which requires you to break free and also has its own immunity timer. You can tell by the swirling white lines beneath your feet when you break free. Once those disappear you can be affected with a hard cap again.

@Deltia has done a video on it in the past and google has a more accurate description

Domander · March 2017

What do you mean soft CC has no counters? Direct counters are dodge roll, purge (also templar purge) or one of the abilities that make you immune. Rapids, shuffle, mist form, forward momentum... the last one you can keep up while fighting and not get soft CC'd at all. (Shuffle too somewhat)

And that pretty much ruins the credibility of the rest of the post.

Let's not dumb the game down, ok?

MaxwellC · March 2017

@Domander
I've clearly stated what I meant by counter which was an immunity from soft CCs such as talons,encase,etc for an x period like what you would receive after breaking free from a hard CC.
You're saying that if I'm soft CC'd I should just dodge and keep spamming shuffle till I run out of resources? I mean I seriously hope you're not telling me to do that.

@mb10
By soft cap you mean soft CC (soft crowd control). Another type of Soft CC is one that does not allow you to break free from but you can dodge roll it, purify,shuffle,etc to get rid of it but... what is stopping the person from using the same-thing again? When I PvP'd on my mag DK I would fossilize you which puts you in a hard CC that goes into a 3 second soft cc then while you're still under my hard CC I'd put down my soft CC on you i.e. Talons. I would continue this until you drop dead because as stated their is not soft cc counter like one that hard cc receives; sure you can use skills to get rid of it like shuffle or purify,etc but ultimately you would wear down extremely fast thus inevitably dying.

Tasear · March 2017

Sounds like PvP wants to affect our PvE Again.

Make these changes and PvE will be devastated.

STEVIL · March 2017

MaxwellC wrote: »

@STEVIL
Yeah there is a CP tree that increases the effect of healing reduction abilities but that is to counter the CP you can put into healing done which also influences the amount of healing you can do. My thing is why should two CPs influence your healing done when only one CP exists to counter it. It's strong if you build your class towards reducing enemy healing but it still does not make sense why it both should increase your healing instead of one increasing your allies healing while the other increases your direct healing ability.

We will just have to disagree.

To me one primary facet of "making sense" is does it match other things in context and healing done and healing received work the same way in the rest of the game as they do in the CP chains.

Yes, absolutely, it is possible to build strong healing/survival builds and these would be part of that but i do not recall seeing this as even a major facet of such builds compared to all the other things that impact healing positively.

if you believe healing/.self-healing as a whole is too powerful, IMO you should start looking elsewhere first for bigger fish.

MaxwellC · March 2017

@Tasear
Please elaborate on your statement, criticism as long as it's constructive is welcomed. I do not see how soft CCs, block casting, shield CP changes, proc sets, and mages guild changes effect PvE. The healing received CP being changed to only be based off of your allies heals would effect PvE but I feel that would only effect the tank mostly as the healer provides enough heals for the group if geared/cp correctly.

MaxwellC · March 2017

@STEVIL
Fair enough I just feel that in PvP terms healing is pretty strong and facing players who are built as a DPS but have incredible heals is something you can see a lot in PvP especially around the Templar/DK crowd (due to major mending). It's true we have damage CPs that chain together nicely but we also have defensive CP that does the same thing like elemental defender and resistant.

All in all I had a great discussion with you mate.

Domander · March 2017

MaxwellC wrote: »

@Domander
I've clearly stated what I meant by counter which was an immunity from soft CCs such as talons,encase,etc for an x period like what you would receive after breaking free from a hard CC.
You're saying that if I'm soft CC'd I should just dodge and keep spamming shuffle till I run out of resources? I mean I seriously hope you're not telling me to do that.

@mb10
By soft cap you mean soft CC (soft crowd control). Another type of Soft CC is one that does not allow you to break free from but you can dodge roll it, purify,shuffle,etc to get rid of it but... what is stopping the person from using the same-thing again? When I PvP'd on my mag DK I would fossilize you which puts you in a hard CC that goes into a 3 second soft cc then while you're still under my hard CC I'd put down my soft CC on you i.e. Talons. I would continue this until you drop dead because as stated their is not soft cc counter like one that hard cc receives; sure you can use skills to get rid of it like shuffle or purify,etc but ultimately you would wear down extremely fast thus inevitably dying.

Casting a root is not free either, you can run out of resources trying to pin some players down. Why should someone get free immunity because they don't want to use the counters already in game?

It's like someone not slotting any heals and then complaining about taking damage....

I think a magicka based immunity other than mist form would be good, but that is all.

MaxwellC · March 2017

@Domander Casting a root isn't free but that doesn't stop me lol. I can do the same on my Stam DK by utilizing fossilize with trap beast all over. Either you roll dodge out of my trap or keep the DoT fresh on you. While you try to escape I still have breathing room to recover my resources while you consistently burn through it.

The slotting heal comparison is very poor to make you should try another to get the point across.

Soft CCs is a problem to in the sense what I like to do on my Mag DK is when my alliance zerg classes with another (preferably on sejanus bridge) I will pop an invis pot and run behind where I wait for my pot to come back up then drop down and talon everyone while I pop my destro ulti. That's probably the easiest way to wipe so many people especially when your allies jump into themix.