I wish Argonian and Khajiit did not have the worst PvP racial passives in the game

Kaide · March 2017

My 2 favorite races are Argonian and Khajiit...but they both have the worst PvP racial passives in the game so I had to pick other races

WeyounTM · March 2017

Well, Argonians are pretty awesome healers....and Khajiit....they are all good looking. So I will play them regardless....even if they are not "best in slot" haha.
Let all others min-max the **** out of their toons. I play for fun

Seraphayel · March 2017

Sorry but the racial passives are negligible especially for PvP. If you really feel the need to min max for 2-3% more damage or better resource management... do it. In PvE. In PvP it's pretty irrelevant.

zaria · March 2017

Seraphayel wrote: »

Sorry but the racial passives are negligible especially for PvP. If you really feel the need to min max for 2-3% more damage or better resource management... do it. In PvE. In PvP it's pretty irrelevant.

Agree here even if I hate racial passives with an passion.
Effect is closer to 10% than 3% but its still not primary in PvP.

TankHealz2015 · March 2017

Argonian - the drink potion passive is great for me. I can drink the plain (cheap) potions and all three resources heal up. Saves me a lot of gold from not buying the more expensive potions.

Turelus · March 2017

I am with others in that passive whilst helpful are not anywhere near as important as player skill, builds and gear.

I had a friend who played a Khajiit Magicka Sorc (before there were any stam sorc skills) and he did fine never making use of his racial skills.

Tommy_The_Gun · March 2017

That is the problem that PvP currently has. There are no caps for max spell/weapon dmg and magicka / health / stamina (or at least the are too high). And because you always get bonus to max health when you enter cyrodill - putting points at health is pointless.

So racial passives that boost your max stamina/magicka are just too good for PvP when compared with other passives. This is basically the reason why 90% of PvP server population in cyrodiil are Altmers, Redguards or Imperials.

Now... what happens when someone does not have "all race, all alliance" upgrade and wants to play for lets say for EP ? You can't pick Altmer, Redguar or Imperial. So in order to have "equal chances" you have to buy something for real money in order to stay competitive...

Turelus · March 2017

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

That is the problem that PvP currently has. There are no caps for max spell/weapon dmg and magicka / health / stamina (or at least the are too high). And because you always get bonus to max health when you enter cyrodill - putting points at health is pointless.

So racial passives that boost your max stamina/magicka are just too good for PvP when compared with other passives. This is basically the reason why 90% of PvP server population in cyrodiil are Altmers, Redguards or Imperials.

Now... what happens when someone does not have "all race, all alliance" upgrade and wants to play for lets say for EP ? You can't pick Altmer, Redguar or Imperial. So in order to have "equal chances" you have to buy something for real money in order to stay competitive...

Citation needed.

I see every race and class running around when they're not wearing full covering armour which hides their race.

It's only perceived to be this way because the big names in the game are all min/max builds, there are plenty of players out there playing the game with bad race/class combinations in PvP and doing just fine.

The reason everyone thinks that you can only be a stamsorc if you're a Redguard is because the community keeps saying it's so, and when players die they use their bad race as an excuse for their loss.

Generally speaking if you're good enough at the game, race means jack vs player skill.

Cherryblossom · March 2017

Kaide wrote: »

My 2 favorite races are Argonian and Khajiit...but they both have the worst PvP racial passives in the game so I had to pick other races

Your just plain wrong, both have good passives.

Rohamad_Ali · March 2017

If racial passives mean nothing then no one should mine me asking for that stamina buff back Wrobel decided to pull away . Thanks for your support .

AtAfternoon · March 2017

Agreed, the only solution is to double the extra resources Argonians get after drinking a potion to 24% of max health, stamina and magicka. What's the worst that could happen?

zaria · March 2017

Turelus wrote: »

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

That is the problem that PvP currently has. There are no caps for max spell/weapon dmg and magicka / health / stamina (or at least the are too high). And because you always get bonus to max health when you enter cyrodill - putting points at health is pointless.

So racial passives that boost your max stamina/magicka are just too good for PvP when compared with other passives. This is basically the reason why 90% of PvP server population in cyrodiil are Altmers, Redguards or Imperials.

Now... what happens when someone does not have "all race, all alliance" upgrade and wants to play for lets say for EP ? You can't pick Altmer, Redguar or Imperial. So in order to have "equal chances" you have to buy something for real money in order to stay competitive...

Citation needed.

I see every race and class running around when they're not wearing full covering armour which hides their race.

It's only perceived to be this way because the big names in the game are all min/max builds, there are plenty of players out there playing the game with bad race/class combinations in PvP and doing just fine.

The reason everyone thinks that you can only be a stamsorc if you're a Redguard is because the community keeps saying it's so, and when players die they use their bad race as an excuse for their loss.

Generally speaking if you're good enough at the game, race means jack vs player skill.

Everybody using guides will also pick one of the bonus races even if they don't know that they are doing.
Else I agree with you that in pvp skills is way more important

zaria · March 2017

Turelus wrote: »

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

That is the problem that PvP currently has. There are no caps for max spell/weapon dmg and magicka / health / stamina (or at least the are too high). And because you always get bonus to max health when you enter cyrodill - putting points at health is pointless.

So racial passives that boost your max stamina/magicka are just too good for PvP when compared with other passives. This is basically the reason why 90% of PvP server population in cyrodiil are Altmers, Redguards or Imperials.

Now... what happens when someone does not have "all race, all alliance" upgrade and wants to play for lets say for EP ? You can't pick Altmer, Redguar or Imperial. So in order to have "equal chances" you have to buy something for real money in order to stay competitive...

Citation needed.

I see every race and class running around when they're not wearing full covering armour which hides their race.

It's only perceived to be this way because the big names in the game are all min/max builds, there are plenty of players out there playing the game with bad race/class combinations in PvP and doing just fine.

The reason everyone thinks that you can only be a stamsorc if you're a Redguard is because the community keeps saying it's so, and when players die they use their bad race as an excuse for their loss.

Generally speaking if you're good enough at the game, race means jack vs player skill.

Everybody using guides will also pick one of the bonus races even if they don't know that they are doing.
Leaving the causuals or the one who feel strongly for an race.
Else I agree with you that in pvp skills is way more important

Turelus · March 2017

zaria wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

That is the problem that PvP currently has. There are no caps for max spell/weapon dmg and magicka / health / stamina (or at least the are too high). And because you always get bonus to max health when you enter cyrodill - putting points at health is pointless.

So racial passives that boost your max stamina/magicka are just too good for PvP when compared with other passives. This is basically the reason why 90% of PvP server population in cyrodiil are Altmers, Redguards or Imperials.

Now... what happens when someone does not have "all race, all alliance" upgrade and wants to play for lets say for EP ? You can't pick Altmer, Redguar or Imperial. So in order to have "equal chances" you have to buy something for real money in order to stay competitive...

Citation needed.

I see every race and class running around when they're not wearing full covering armour which hides their race.

It's only perceived to be this way because the big names in the game are all min/max builds, there are plenty of players out there playing the game with bad race/class combinations in PvP and doing just fine.

The reason everyone thinks that you can only be a stamsorc if you're a Redguard is because the community keeps saying it's so, and when players die they use their bad race as an excuse for their loss.

Generally speaking if you're good enough at the game, race means jack vs player skill.

Everybody using guides will also pick one of the bonus races even if they don't know that they are doing.
Leaving the causuals or the one who feel strongly for an race.
Else I agree with you that in pvp skills is way more important

Agreed. The problem as I see it is we keep enforcing this mentality that you can't be a Khajiit healer and be good. You can be one and you can even clear the hardest PvE content in the game, you just won't be as viable for leaderboard runs as other fully optimised groups.

However the mentality has also switched to PvP where people repeat what a couple of guides told them as fact so much it becomes this issue where new players feel they can't be good unless they play the perfect race.
If we spent half as much time teaching players the importance of learning game mechanics, their classes and basic PvP skill then we would see far more Khajiit Magicka Sorcs kicking butt.

Ahzek · March 2017

Turelus wrote: »

I am with others in that passive whilst helpful are not anywhere near as important as player skill, builds and gear.

I had a friend who played a Khajiit Magicka Sorc (before there were any stam sorc skills) and he did fine never making use of his racial skills.

Now i would say thats me, but i dont member if i know your @name in game.

On topic, while it is pretty obvious that player skill is a way more important variable when determining someones success, race can play a key role in a way that isnt too obvious at first glance.
Certain races nowadays can allow for build options that other races simply can not utilize. The prime example here is SnB DPS being almost primarily limited to redgourds simply because they are the only race with the inherent stam sustain to both sustain the bash weaves and keep a reasonable damage stats.
Similary, with the removal of softcaps, it has become nigh impossible to compete with altmer for pet sorc builds, other races will just end up with 4-6k less magicka, which can easily make or break a build.

All that said, i think racial balance should not be of a concern for the next balance patch, first there are more underlying issues to resolve, in my opinion armor type balance. This also has a direct impact on racial balance, especially for stam classes, since races like khajiit and bosmer have nice synergy with the completely obsolete medium armor, whereas redgourd is the go to option for the everpresent heavy armor.

Turelus · March 2017

@Ahzek it wasn't yourself, it was an RL friend who doesn't play any more.

He sucked at PvP, wondered if it was his race, looked up some good PvP videos at the time, invested in the gear/skill/practice and got pretty good.

However he was more of a PvE player at heart and eventually left the game for other things.

wazzz56 · March 2017

Argonians... I do not like to brag, or toot my own horn, so I am legit saying this only to prove a point..my Argonian Healbot is pretty effing OP....huge heals and the potion passive is amazing.. can BOL my group through Destro Ults etc....with minor magika steal he feels even tankier...I raced changed from High Elf 6 or 7 months ago and the max mag diff is not huge.....Plus he is a giant badass Lizardman....

Khajiit...went vampire and switched to mag on my Khajiit NB for shites and giggles....still remarkably effective in PvP ..

In theory you can make any race work for whatever you want to do as long as you find a play style and set up that YOU can make work....