Champion System Cap
Strider_Roshin
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You know what I like about the Champion System? It allows for more build customization, and you can gear it towards your weaknesses, and strengths. For instance, say "hypothetically" there's an excessive amount of mag sorcs in Cyrodiil. That would inspire me to put a lot of points into Shattering Blows. But here's another strange scenario, what if (and believe me this is hypothetical 
) there's an excessive amount of people wearing heavy armor; that would encourage me to invest a lot into piercing. But then what if both were present? You would have to decide which type of opponent is more difficult to you, and build towards that. Why not both? Because we have a limited amount of CP that we can use. We're at 600 now, and eventually we'll reach 660 (No ETA) and in my opinion this is the optimal CP for build customization (I'm sure others will disagree).
Here's my concern though: eventually the cap will increase even higher than that, and soon people we'll be able to invest heavily both into shattering blows and piercing. There will be no weakness, no sacrifice, and eventually no build diversity.
My proposal? Once we hit the 660 (or whatever number ZOS decides on), we can not apply any further champion points. Instead, any CP we earn past that point will be converted into enhancement points (or we could call them legendary points if you want to keep the Skyrim theme). What they will allow you to do is increase the strength of a CP passive by 0.01% (additive not multiplicative). For example, say you have 100 points into Thaumaturge; this will increase your DoT damage by 25%. Placing 30 legendary points into Thaumaturge will increase that number to 25.3%. The increased amount will remain consistent regardless on how many CP you already have in that passive, and Legendary Points will have no influence on unlocking CP passives (i.e. unchained, treasure hunter, etc.).
Obviously none of what I have typed will likely happen, but my purpose behind writing this was to provide ZOS with some ideas on how we can continue character progression, maintain build customization without letting things get out of hand.
I would also propose a cap on Legendary points as well otherwise people are going to go crazy with grinding legendary points. People want to be as powerful as possible so caps are a good thing. It keeps us focus on the content, and not so much the grind to be as powerful as possible.
@Wrobel @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_RichLambert
) there's an excessive amount of people wearing heavy armor; that would encourage me to invest a lot into piercing. But then what if both were present? You would have to decide which type of opponent is more difficult to you, and build towards that. Why not both? Because we have a limited amount of CP that we can use. We're at 600 now, and eventually we'll reach 660 (No ETA) and in my opinion this is the optimal CP for build customization (I'm sure others will disagree).Here's my concern though: eventually the cap will increase even higher than that, and soon people we'll be able to invest heavily both into shattering blows and piercing. There will be no weakness, no sacrifice, and eventually no build diversity.
My proposal? Once we hit the 660 (or whatever number ZOS decides on), we can not apply any further champion points. Instead, any CP we earn past that point will be converted into enhancement points (or we could call them legendary points if you want to keep the Skyrim theme). What they will allow you to do is increase the strength of a CP passive by 0.01% (additive not multiplicative). For example, say you have 100 points into Thaumaturge; this will increase your DoT damage by 25%. Placing 30 legendary points into Thaumaturge will increase that number to 25.3%. The increased amount will remain consistent regardless on how many CP you already have in that passive, and Legendary Points will have no influence on unlocking CP passives (i.e. unchained, treasure hunter, etc.).
Obviously none of what I have typed will likely happen, but my purpose behind writing this was to provide ZOS with some ideas on how we can continue character progression, maintain build customization without letting things get out of hand.
I would also propose a cap on Legendary points as well otherwise people are going to go crazy with grinding legendary points. People want to be as powerful as possible so caps are a good thing. It keeps us focus on the content, and not so much the grind to be as powerful as possible.
@Wrobel @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_RichLambert
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Taleof2Cities✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Allocating 600 out of 3,600 possible champion points is still only 1/6 of the total Champion System. Build diversity still has merit way beyond 660.3 -
Strider_Roshin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Taleof2Cities wrote: »Allocating 600 out of 3,600 possible champion points is still only 1/6 of the total Champion System. Build diversity still has merit way beyond 660.
You're getting too hung up on the suggested cap. It was arbitrary if anything, and I even stated " Once we hit the 660 (or whatever number ZOS decides on)". My point is that we need a permanent cap that will allow for build diversity without letting us get too powerful, and specialize against everything, and everyone.1 -
Quigster✭✭✭Taleof2Cities wrote: »Allocating 600 out of 3,600 possible champion points is still only 1/6 of the total Champion System. Build diversity still has merit way beyond 660.
Agreed, the CP system as it currently stands still has a lot of room for expansion. I do understand your point, however, that at some future date when the majority of the CP system has been allocated the CP system will to some extent be rendered moot. By that time, hopefully ZOS by planning ahead will have some additional ideas for character customization.(50) Quigster Bosmer Stamplar
(50) Lorithar Lightcrest Altmer Mag Sorc
(50) Tanius Magnitus Argonian Magplar
(50) Kalethar Redguard Stamplar
(50) Ra'Jo Darkstrike Khajiit Stamblade
(50) Gen Maximus Imperial Stam DK
(50) Jakon Fenrif Redguar Stam Sorc
(50) Revus Meredor Dunmer Mag DK
(50) Gorath the Silent Orc Stamblade
(31) Bjorn Ironhand Nord Stamplar
(28) Lord Devin Woodhearth Breton Magblade
Altaholic, CP 600+0 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Is prefer to not add another layer into what we already have. It's not really needed. Besides, past 600 CP
Further, the CP design has diminishing benefits with each additional potential point adds to the same spot. It would seem the OPs suggestion would work against this to a degree.0 -
NewBlacksmurf✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Strider_Roshin wrote: »Taleof2Cities wrote: »Allocating 600 out of 3,600 possible champion points is still only 1/6 of the total Champion System. Build diversity still has merit way beyond 660.
You're getting too hung up on the suggested cap. It was arbitrary if anything, and I even stated " Once we hit the 660 (or whatever number ZOS decides on)". My point is that we need a permanent cap that will allow for build diversity without letting us get too powerful, and specialize against everything, and everyone.
O K so then just remove the cap entirely and remove CP from gear, items, PvP and character reference as a level.-PC (PTS)/Xbox One: NewBlacksmurf
~<{[50]}>~ looks better than *5010 -
AlienatedGoat✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭1200 points is 1/3 of the entire system and seems to be a good place to settle.PC-NA Goat - Bleat Bleat Baaaa0 -
willlienellson✭✭✭✭✭Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »Is prefer to not add another layer into what we already have. It's not really needed. Besides, past 600 CP
Further, the CP design has diminishing benefits with each additional potential point adds to the same spot. It would seem the OPs suggestion would work against this to a degree.
That's incorrect.0 -
Morimizo✭✭✭✭✭
✭Perhaps a compromise might work;
1) Increase caps of each node to 200, for a total of 35% at max; however,
2) Limit the amount of nodes per constellation that can be used (possibly 2 instead of all 4?).
This would keep build diversity, and allow everyone to keep investing in the strengths they prefer while continuing to allocate CPs.0 -
Phatmattfu✭✭✭Taleof2Cities wrote: »Allocating 600 out of 3,600 possible champion points is still only 1/6 of the total Champion System. Build diversity still has merit way beyond 660.
Agreed, the CP system as it currently stands still has a lot of room for expansion. I do understand your point, however, that at some future date when the majority of the CP system has been allocated the CP system will to some extent be rendered moot. By that time, hopefully ZOS by planning ahead will have some additional ideas for character customization.
This. Lots of room for development in the current trees. Once maxed out CP chars are the majority we will see some big expansion here i'm sure.
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idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Oh. And further. Having a second layer could add another item that needs to be changed when changing roles or moving between PvE and PvP. More burden as I see it's potential.
Additionally, we will reach a point where we have enough points we don't have to change the CP for tanking a trial vs dps and can have enough in areas for both PvP and PvE. Essentially get back to the larger freedom of choice we had before CP.Edited by idk on March 8, 2017 8:45PM0 -
ADarklore✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭From what they've said, they're not even raising CP cap with Morrowind, so at this rate it is going to take almost a year to even reach CP 660, if the next CP raise is in the late third qtr or early fourth qtr of this year; that would put CP 660ish for spring 2018.CP: 2130 ** ESO+ ** ~~ ***** Strictly a solo PvE quester *****
~~Started Playing: May 2015 | Stopped Playing: July 2025 | Returned: March 2026~~0 -
Kodrac✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Eh, in an upcoming update they'll just move or remove things, or add more to force you to reallocate your points. Systems like these are never set in stone.0 -
TequilaFire✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Eventually we will have enough points to be back where we started and on par with each other.
That is unless you are a new player which is a problem that will have to be solved by catch up and battle leveling.0 -
binho✭✭✭I honestly hope they don't raise CP anytime soon...
PVE is already too easy and don't see the point in PVP. I understand CP allows build diversity... but it also allows my healer to be a damage dealer and my damage dealer to be a tank and a healer at the same time...
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Danksta✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Eh, in an upcoming update they'll just move or remove things, or add more to force you to reallocate your points. Systems like these are never set in stone.
I would like to see a more permanent progression system that doesn't create a need to tweak things over and over until they finally get it to a good state just before they need to recreate/add to they system, creating an imbalance. There's too many perspectives of this game (PvP large group, PvP small group, dungeons/trials, vMA, soon to be BGs, etc.) for there not to create an imbalance when implementing a change of the caliber that will be needed to the CP system.BawKinTackWarDs PS4/NA0 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Eh, in an upcoming update they'll just move or remove things, or add more to force you to reallocate your points. Systems like these are never set in stone.
I would like to see a more permanent progression system that doesn't create a need to tweak things over and over until they finally get it to a good state just before they need to recreate/add to they system, creating an imbalance. There's too many perspectives of this game (PvP large group, PvP small group, dungeons/trials, vMA, soon to be BGs, etc.) for there not to create an imbalance when implementing a change of the caliber that will be needed to the CP system.
There is nothing permanent about characters and theIf progression in an MMO. Between normal balancing, which is always an ongoing process, and heeding some of the suggestions players make things are going to change.0 -
Doctordarkspawn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Firstly, no, CP hasn't allowed for more build customization. Honestly it's resulted in less, because now there's a optimal way to build and most wont accept any other way.
Second, reallly, CP has allways just been a barrier to entry. I say keep with the current model of increases.0 -
DaveMoeDee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Taleof2Cities wrote: »Allocating 600 out of 3,600 possible champion points is still only 1/6 of the total Champion System. Build diversity still has merit way beyond 660.
It will be interesting to see how it plays out. It depends how low they make the minimum marginal increase for diminishing returns. If they goes as low as .01 for the 1001st point in a buff, you might as well just throw points into everything instead of specializing to that point.0