Unwritten Ethical Node Picking Code of Conduct

Minalan · March 2017

Go farm nodes in Cyrodiil. Then at least you can kill 2/3rds of the people that show up to steal your resources.

TheShadowScout · March 2017

Minalan wrote: »

Go farm nodes in Cyrodiil. Then at least you can kill 2/3rds of the people that show up to steal your resources.

Sadly, its more likely that 2/3rds of the people out to steal your resources will wait until you start to harvest, then gank you.
But hey, that's cyrodil for ya. Don't go in unless you have no problem respawning! A lot, unless you have an impressive enough PvPness...

Stopnaggin · March 2017

Quigster wrote: »

I think several people posting in this thread are missing the point. It's not an issue of entitlement or ownership, it's an issue of manners; more specifically being raised with some. If I see someone heading toward a node / chest and they are closer than me, I will stop and watch them. If they grab it, fine. If they pass it by, I will grab it. If I am closer I will grab it. If they run pass me trying to beat me to it, then they are demonstrating their true inner person; selfish / self centered and being raised with poor values. Treating others with proper manners and respect is a rapidly fading philosophy. There is a saying, 'You can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals", in this day and age I would also extend that to how you treat others in on-line gaming (where anonymity exists). Of course there will be people who do not agree with my philosophy of character, which is why you have the issues being described in this thread and elsewhere. And, unfortunately, you are never going to remove this issue / problem or ever be able to correct it. Because not everybody is raised to believe the same values / morals / etc.

Oh, and BTW, I always completely loot any chest or node, that way it will respawn for the next player. Doing less is another way of demonstrating the above concept.

These post always bring it out, the values this country was founded on have been eroded. Especially when they can hide in anonymity, without fear of reprocussion.

Dragonking06 · March 2017

For my own moral code of conduct when it comes to nodes/chests/safe boxes:

1) Take EVERYTHING from the node so it can respawn for later use.
1a) TAKE. EVERYTHING.

2) If I beat you to it, sad day for you and vice versa.

3)If someone is fighting directly on top of it, move on.
3a) If you are fighting a small distance away from it, it's fair game.

4) Put salty whiners on ignore list.

Might be harsh, but it's more than fair. Not saying everyone should be the same, this is just my way of dealing with it.

UrQuan · March 2017

OK, for @JamieAubrey, @phileunderx2, @TheShadowScout, @GarnetFire17, @Hand_Bacon, @I_killed_Vivec, @Draxys, @Linaleah, @Dragonking06, and anyone else who I may have missed in this thread saying things like this:

GarnetFire17 wrote: »

2. Don't leave anything in the node, it can't respawn if you do. Take all or nothing. (On PC there are addons that destroy junk so it doesn't clog inventory)

I_killed_Vivec wrote: »

And I don't particularly mind that people leave worms or ta runes. It's indicative of a lack of consideration, but maybe they aren't aware that nodes don't respawn unless emptied...

Linaleah wrote: »

that said, yes, jesus christ PICK UP ALL YOUR STUFF FROM NODES AND CHESTS. you can delete it out of your inventory, but when you just let them sit there, partially unpicked - they don't have a chance to respawn and you are ruining it for EVERYONE. I understand space issues, I really do. delete crap you don;t want. ffs.

Dragonking06 wrote: »

1) Take EVERYTHING from the node so it can respawn for later use.
1a) TAKE. EVERYTHING.

You don't understand the respawn mechanic. The despawn/respawn timer starts after the first person to "open" a node (and the same goes for chests) "closes" it. Whether that person removes everything from the node or leaves some stuff makes exactly zero difference in how long it takes for that node to respawn.

This has been confirmed by devs on the forums, and can be very easily tested by anyone in-game. All you have to do is go to an out of the way location, open a node without removing anything, and wait by it to see how long it takes to despawn and then respawn. Then do the same thing, but take everything out of the node. The amount of time for the respawn will be similar (although not exactly the same, because the timer is based on a number of variables that we can't control in an in-game scenario, like zone population, how many other nodes of the same type there are in the zone, etc).

In short: leaving things in nodes hurts nobody, and it in fact benefits the people coming along who might actually want the worms, or crawlers, or whatever got left behind.

Prof_Bawbag · March 2017

It really doesn't pay to have manners with many, many randoms you'll meet in game. Without doubt, the person you have just shafted will have done exactly the same to you. I learned this a long time ago and stopped getting irritated by it.

I will go out of my way to help my guilds, guild mates and so on, but out in the field so to speak, no one is interested whether they ninja nodes, partially loot chests etc. This forum on the whole is populated by people who are my kind of folks when it comes to this sort of stuff. These forums are not representative of those people you'll meet in-game, though. You're preaching to the converted on here.

Dragonking06 · March 2017

UrQuan wrote: »

In short: leaving things in nodes hurts nobody, and it in fact benefits the people coming along who might actually want the worms, or crawlers, or whatever got left behind.

Someone wants to take just the worms/crawlers from the ancestor silk nodes and leave the actual ancestor silk, that's fine by me. But picking up just the materials and leaving the crawler or worm behind in an 'active zone' where it's likely someone is going to come along before the node has had a chance to despawn/respawn, leaving them with not what they were expecting is just a *** move. Same goes for chests and leaving one piece of junk in there. Granted, my last post made it sound like these things won't despawn and replace it with a new node after a while. That was my mistake.

zaria · March 2017

Dragonking06 wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

In short: leaving things in nodes hurts nobody, and it in fact benefits the people coming along who might actually want the worms, or crawlers, or whatever got left behind.

Someone wants to take just the worms/crawlers from the ancestor silk nodes and leave the actual ancestor silk, that's fine by me. But picking up just the materials and leaving the crawler or worm behind in an 'active zone' where it's likely someone is going to come along before the node has had a chance to despawn/respawn, leaving them with not what they were expecting is just a *** move. Same goes for chests and leaving one piece of junk in there. Granted, my last post made it sound like these things won't despawn and replace it with a new node after a while. That was my mistake.

You have to take an detour and harvest the node.
I started an new character, and found an unlocked chest on the starting island with level 33 items, one set of blue medium armor and some ring, must be someone with full inventory.

TheShadowScout · March 2017

UrQuan wrote: »

In short: leaving things in nodes hurts nobody, and it in fact benefits the people coming along who might actually want the worms, or crawlers, or whatever got left behind.

Actually, not so.

Oh, I am sure you know what you are saying about the respawn mechanic.

I am just saying, I find many, many nodes where nothing but crap is left.
And it vexes me.
I'd rather not have a node then have a node with a single "ta" left. (not talking about the worrms and crawlers, those are nifty for fishing!)
No node - move on and never think about it.
Node with crap left - feel vexed.
See the difference?

Same with treasure chests... worse, even, since those are more rare, thus hopes getting up when you see one. Sure, the one with 1 palladium left yesterday... always can use more style, right? Same for the empty soul gem. And then the one with a single while gloves left on the other hand... meh. But you were hoping for more when you saw that chest, and thus feel dissapointed. Would have been nicer if whoever opened it had taken that, then destroyed it if they didn't care for it... or destroyed something else, then taken it, as I usually do when I grab a chest at the carry limit. But alas...

And yeah, its a small thing. But it does impact peoples game enjoyment, even if its just a little annoyance. Common courtesy would be to make the extra motion to prevent others from being vexed.

I see it just like not throwing your empty plastic bottles, wrappers and whatever away on the street, but keeping it until you walk past a public trash can to dispose of properly. Sure, many people don't bother. But that is what makes them discourteous to others.

However, you may recall I also mentioned I do not consider it worth getting too worked up over. Some people just -are- discourteous. Accept it, don't waste energy getting angry over it, move on.
And perhaps occasionally try to educate the few who might change their ways in matters of commom courtesy...

Cpt_Teemo · March 2017

AdamBourke wrote: »

How is unwritten if you wrote it down?

Also you missed the only one that really matters:
1) Take Everything.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dMzvUlPFIl4

STEVIL · March 2017

TheShadowScout wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

Just curious but are there other places in the game where my investments in speed that make my character faster than others are not permitted to be used?

We are not talking about permissions, naturally everything not forbidden by the code of conduct is permitted!

We are talking about common courtesy and not being a jerk.

If you feel like your investment in speed entitles you acting like an jerk to try and steal other peoples node enjoyment out from under their noses - well, that is your personality flaw. Enjoy your extra resources, knowing that you are a bad person part and of the problem why the world is sucking.
Or you can choose to be -fair-

For your information, "fairness" means not to take advantage over others, not to use an advantage if it comes at a deteriment to others.
Fair would be to leave them the node they are going for, and use your extra speed to just get the next node before they even see it.
Unfair would be to use your advantage to steal every node out from under their noses, then laughing at their frustration.

You can choose what you want to be, how you want to act.

Everyone else just gets to judge you for it.

Well tbh i would call considering nodes "yours" thst you have not gotten in a game where the rules are established by a thitd party a personality flaw.

Also, when did sportsmanship become a fictional quality for gamers. Why in mmo is it ok to lose a race to a resource and then start whining on boards, tossing around jerk snd bad person and part of world suckimg blah blah at ones who played the game better in that one instant?

When did name calling and pitching fits when you dont get what you haven't earned become acceptable.

I can see it now...

"Checkmate"
"No, thats not fair. I had you with mate in three."
"Uh well, yeah but i got you mated now, before your mate in three."
"You jerk! You are a bad person. You stole my enjoyment. You should have been fair and let me win this game then you win the next. No wonder the world suck, cuz you know, people like you."
"Man, its just a game. A game has rules. Its not being a jerk to play by the rules."

Now... "then laughing at their frustration." This would be wrong. This is being a poor sport. This is being a bad winner. Not too far ftom being a poor loser.

But that behavior - both ways - is about what you do after the gameplay is resolved.

After the unclaimed node is claimed either the winner or the loser can be jerks. No argument there. Win, lose, draw treat esch other with respect.

STEVIL · March 2017

BTW in my experience and play, competing over nodes is terribly inefficient. Its a waste of time. When i see anyone actively gathering nodes in an area i am in i tend to move on cuz there are just so many harvest options there will be another uncontested batch round the bend.

Of course i hate farming/grinding so... for me its rarely an issue.

Korah_Eaglecry · March 2017

Jemcrystal wrote: »

1) Do not pick someone else's node.
2) To claim a node while engaged with the enemy stand directly over the node as you are in battle.
3) If you cannot for some reason stand over the choice node you forfeit your right of claim to said node.
4) Do not pick a node what has a person of some close distance to node unless individual remains still for more than 12 seconds.
5) Do not get pizzy when node is lost to fellow farmer. There are many nodes aplenty and you are being a foolish silly smallmind to get mad at just a game.
6) Give benefit of doubt to other node farmers. Sometimes they do not see you because spacing off bored doing mechanical repetitious node picking and you might have been in their camera blind spot.

Anything anyone might like to add go ahead.

Not covering barrels and chests. Not because it isn't node picking. More because I lack info about the respawn dynamics of chests, barrels, sacks, etc. Not sure if you must take all from them to respawn or not? Not sure if a barrel with a lemon in it, once removed, will chance a recipe/valuable or if it will always respawn a lemon in it?

How about, first person to the node gets the node....Oh thats how it works already? Okay...No need for a bunch of needless rules that not even a small fraction of the community will see let alone follow.

randomkeyhits · March 2017

Until all the non-forum visiting players can have the "rules of etiquette" shown to them they are simply a waste of time.

Having said that, won't steal a node but happy to race for it and take everything, always.

Draxys · March 2017

UrQuan wrote: »

In short: leaving things in nodes hurts nobody, and it in fact benefits the people coming along who might actually want the worms, or crawlers, or whatever got left behind.

Incorrect, actually. I never said "take everything, because when I farm that place 2 hours from now, everything will have just worms." The reason a node needs to be cleared is that now everyone is farming in the same instances. When I'm farming khenarthi's roost along with some other [snip] who doesn't take everything, that person is directly negatively impacting the people around him/her, not the people who come in behind them 15 minutes later. The respawn time isn't the problem. There are only a handful of good farm spots in the game, and that number got cut down to a third of what it used to be thanks to one tamriel.

[Edit for censor bypass]

purple-magicb16_ESO · March 2017

Mrs_Malaka wrote: »

It's an MMO.

If you don't like "sharing" then go play Skyim or FF14 (the nodes are instanced in that game)

Exactly! The optimal word there is "share". Lots of nodes out there. No need to make enemies imo. But like I said earlier, it is just my opinion. Ppl do what they want and it doesn't frustrate me b/c there are other opportunities and you don't need to take advantage of someone else to get it. I d9 find it funny when someone follows me and keeps racing me to nodes tho. Often times they lose the first and wait for me to finish before racing to the next instead of just letting that node go and taking the second, they wind up losing 2 nodes (or more depending how long it takes them to clue in) instead of just one.

RinaldoGandolphi · March 2017

Woeler wrote: »

If I am faster than you, bad luck for you.

Yup, because that kinda personality is just sooooooo great for the community

AcadianPaladin · March 2017

Prof_Bawbag wrote: »

It really doesn't pay to have manners with many, many randoms you'll meet in game. Without doubt, the person you have just shafted will have done exactly the same to you. I learned this a long time ago and stopped getting irritated by it.

I will go out of my way to help my guilds, guild mates and so on, but out in the field so to speak, no one is interested whether they ninja nodes, partially loot chests etc. This forum on the whole is populated by people who are my kind of folks when it comes to this sort of stuff. These forums are not representative of those people you'll meet in-game, though. You're preaching to the converted on here.

While I don't disagree with you, I think that is part of the point @Quigster has made and I have alluded to. The satisfaction from being gracious / courteous must come from within.

That said, there is a bit of karma. My character has short legs, no speed boosts and, in fact, often walks most places. When a speed farmer blows through she knows they will miss half the nodes anyway because they are moving too fast. Lol.

Molydeus · March 2017

Azurulia wrote: »

Molydeus wrote: »

Azurulia wrote: »

I'm the biggest jerk ever when farming nodes, safeboxes, and justice npc's. I intentionally am an *** because I "want" people to get upset and leave. More for me if they do.

All's fair in love, war, and farming. I'll swipe that from right under someones nose and laugh about it when they send me an angry tell.

My personal favorite is when someone gets upset about me murdering an npc they are trying to pickpocket or stealing a safebox they are getting ready to break into.

We're criminals. What about that says lets all play nice and get along?

This info just points to you most likely being a loser irl.

Besides. If I am to go by the your line of reasoning here, this info points that you must be an idoit irl to assume and declare something so childish.

It's idiot.

And you're right, I don't itch on Tuesdays.

Ojustaboo · March 2017

GarnetFire17 wrote: »

2. Taking a node/chest someone else tried to open or actually picked but they couldn't open it because of an enemy or whatever reason.

While I personally leave them to it, I do recall Zenimax stating that the reason there's a short delay between a failed opening attempt and it allowing you to retry is so that if someone else is also there, they can also have a turn.

So Zenimax designed it so that if i failed to open a chest and you are next to me, you can jump in and grab it.

Elsonso · March 2017

randomkeyhits wrote: »

Until all the non-forum visiting players can have the "rules of etiquette" shown to them they are simply a waste of time.

People learn by example. If players race to the node and make it a PVP sport, or basically act like jerks when they don't get the node, then new players will assume that this is how things are in ESO.

If people back off nodes and let the closer person get them, or pause to see if the other is going to get the node before diving in, tend to let it go and move on when someone "steals" the node, and show basic courtesy towards other players, then new people will see that in the game.

Some incredibly anti-social, introverted, discourteous (whatever you want to call them) people play MMO games, but that does not mean the overall community has to follow their lead. You can't control other people, but you can control yourself. Don't be a jerk. Be courteous. That is my suggestion.

And, yes, I suggest people take everything from the node whenever they can.

UrQuan · March 2017

TheShadowScout wrote: »

And yeah, its a small thing. But it does impact peoples game enjoyment, even if its just a little annoyance. Common courtesy would be to make the extra motion to prevent others from being vexed.

I see it just like not throwing your empty plastic bottles, wrappers and whatever away on the street, but keeping it until you walk past a public trash can to dispose of properly. Sure, many people don't bother. But that is what makes them discourteous to others.

However, you may recall I also mentioned I do not consider it worth getting too worked up over. Some people just -are- discourteous. Accept it, don't waste energy getting angry over it, move on.
And perhaps occasionally try to educate the few who might change their ways in matters of commom courtesy...

Common courtesy would actually be "I don't use or need worms, but loads of other people do, so I'll leave them behind instead of destroying them in order to give someone else a chance to have them".

I get that people might find it slightly irritating to go up to a node and find it's only got stuff that they don't like, but that same stuff is useful to plenty of other people, so overall it's better for people to leave behind stuff they don't want. Except maybe Ta - nobody wants Ta

Of course, I always take everything because of auto-loot and crafting bags. I also have about 2-3K of each type of bait for fishing because of this, which is awesome when I go fishing, and even more awesome when I go fishing with friends and guildies, because if anyone is low on bait I have plenty to share.

Draxys wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

In short: leaving things in nodes hurts nobody, and it in fact benefits the people coming along who might actually want the worms, or crawlers, or whatever got left behind.

Incorrect, actually. I never said "take everything, because when I farm that place 2 hours from now, everything will have just worms." The reason a node needs to be cleared is that now everyone is farming in the same instances. When I'm farming khenarthi's roost along with some other [snip] who doesn't take everything, that person is directly negatively impacting the people around him/her, not the people who come in behind them 15 minutes later. The respawn time isn't the problem. There are only a handful of good farm spots in the game, and that number got cut down to a third of what it used to be thanks to one tamriel.

What? Nothing you just said makes any sense. Why does everyone farming in the same instance (which they're actually not, because new instances are created dynamically based on zone population, but that's not important here) make any difference? It doesn't matter how many people are farming in a particular area, except as it relates to node spawn rates. Other than maybe slight irritation at thinking a node was full only to find that it's mostly empty, there is absolutely no negative impact to anyone when things are left behind in nodes.

[Edit to match quote]

Jamini · March 2017

It isn't yours until you looted it.

It doesn't matter how many arbitrary rules you try and place on unharvested nodes, the basic rule of farming remains the same. It's been like that since MMOs were still in the early MUD stages with very few exceptions.

If you really want to claim nodes, farm in Cyrodiil or in any game that has open PvP. Then, and only then, can you claim nodes. Naturally, of course, you will need to also back up your claim with force.

---

Also nodes respawn five minutes after the FIRST person opens them. Even if they leave crap. So it doesn't matter if you loot everything or not. So stop complaining about what amounts to a serious non-issue.

Rouven · March 2017

UrQuan wrote: »

(...) there is absolutely no negative impact to anyone when things are left behind in nodes.

Mah immersion, mah immersion!
Imadshinn tha look on mah face, ah've been hacking on that rock foah fahve minahts, aahn then there wahs only woahrms crahwlin arouahnd.

I can not remember that happen to me. Butterflies should get more wings though. Then again that might upset the balance. Then there would be less butterflies and I like looking at butterflies fluttering around. So maybe let's leave it.

Can someone make a mock-up tutorial pop-up for nodes? And one for chests?

Hand_Bacon · March 2017

UrQuan wrote: »

You don't understand the respawn mechanic. The despawn/respawn timer starts after the first person to "open" a node (and the same goes for chests) "closes" it. Whether that person removes everything from the node or leaves some stuff makes exactly zero difference in how long it takes for that node to respawn.

This has been confirmed by devs on the forums, and can be very easily tested by anyone in-game. All you have to do is go to an out of the way location, open a node without removing anything, and wait by it to see how long it takes to despawn and then respawn. Then do the same thing, but take everything out of the node. The amount of time for the respawn will be similar (although not exactly the same, because the timer is based on a number of variables that we can't control in an in-game scenario, like zone population, how many other nodes of the same type there are in the zone, etc).

In short: leaving things in nodes hurts nobody, and it in fact benefits the people coming along who might actually want the worms, or crawlers, or whatever got left behind.

Can't agree with you there buddy. I mean the logic is sound in a way, but it leaves out the fact that you will run to a live node thinking it has something only to find out it doesn't. If, however, the node is not live, I know somebody is farming there and will proceed on a different route.

MLGProPlayer · March 2017

Woeler wrote: »

If I am faster than you, bad luck for you.

You aren't "faster" if you steal a node from someone who is fighting the enemy next to it. Node thieves are the scum of Tamriel, right alongside chest thieves and those who don't take all loot.

SolidusPrime · March 2017

Meh. Somehow I am still able to meet all my mat needs without resorting to stealing the nodes from people that are going for them or busy fighting monsters.

If you're THAT thirsty for a Rubedite node take it lol. I have better things to worry about then some random with no class.

lkki · March 2017

In this world, it's rob or be robbed.

CountEdmondDantes · March 2017

Pharku wrote: »

For I am Ninja, Member of Thieves Guild and Dark Brotherhood.

Therefore, you have four options:

1. It's mine.
2. I steal it off you.
3. I murder you and loot it.
4. Refer to option 1.

lkki wrote: »

In this world, it's rob or be robbed.

These posts make me wish there was a fully-realized justice system. Right now (well, aside from the fact that you can't actually kill me unless you and I duel) this is just a really weak justification for behavior that other players might find offensive.

It sounds tough without being tough at all. I remember in another game, there was a player who justified his (or her) behavior on the basis that she was "roleplaying" a thief. Fine, was the community response, then we should have the ability to punish you. We should be able to attack you, kill you, and take stuff from your inventory.

If that can't happen, then you're not really roleplaying a thief, are you? You're just taking advantage of a poorly developed game mechanic to justify your behavior, while enjoying the freedom of actions without consequences.

SolidusPrime · March 2017

CountEdmondDantes wrote: »

...this is just a really weak justification for behavior that other players might find offensive.

Pretty much all there is to it