Housing Has Killed Fishing

N0TPLAYER2 · March 2017

My original post was a bit much so I'll simplify it. It has been quoted below if you wish to see it.

Adding housing items to fishing loot tables has made catching the blue fish much much harder. It's likely a 1% chance before the update, now sometimes when you would have gotten lucky with the blue fish, you may now pull a green, blue, purple or yellow housing item in its place. Adding this many options to the loot table increases the casts it takes by far.

Having 3 master angler and closing in on the 4th, it's very obvious and apparent this is the case. I'll add back with some stats once I have them.

Here's an example of the change. I may have some info wrong here but fishing the last week or two this is pretty actuate.

If you're lake fishing in stonefalls, here's the before and after of what's possible to catch on each cast.

Before housing

Silverside perch
Spadetail
Shad
Gunny sack
Tench - green fish
Lake Chub - green fish
Rainbow Zander - blue fish

After housing

Silverside perch
Spadetail
Shad
Gunny sack
Tench - green fish
Lake Chub - green fish
Rainbow Zander - blue fish
Small kelp pile - green housing item
Medium kelp pile - green housing item
Large kelp pile - green housing item
Small fish - blue housing item
Medium fish - blue housing item
Large fish - blue housing item
Small starfish - blue housing item
Large starfish - blue housing item
Seashell White Scallop - blue housing item
Bass fish - purple housing item
Trout - purple housing item
Salmon - purple housing item
Perch - purple housing item
Coral crown - yellow housing item

And I am likely forgetting some.

See the difference?

**Edited with new items added

For thise who like stats, here are my stats on my last master angler. I will update this once I finish the next one.

Stats from start to finish

Before housing - 9989 Fish, 99 Perfect Roe

After housing - coming soon

This total includes craglorn fishing, and doesn't count specialty bait or gunny sacks. I will keep track of housing items on the next guy, as well as fish and roe.

max_only · March 2017

Or raise the chance for blue fish?

I like catching housing items but I thought they were in with the Wet Gunnysack odds. I don't know why I didn't think that it would affect the fishing achievement...

Epona222 · March 2017

I hear you. I managed to get Master Angler a few days before homestead update hit. But I hear you, now there is other loot in the drop table.

ChuckyPayne · March 2017

No, please no. This is good how is now. One more meaning for fishing. I still feel that there is few opportunity, I don't feel that it would be worth the repeating with alt characters.

raj72616a · March 2017

i don't fish

other harvested resources are not replaced by the new housing mats. we get bast in addition to silk, we get regulus in addition to ore.

i don't see why the same logic should not be applied to fishing as well.

SydneyGrey · March 2017

Hmmm ... I didn't think of this, but you're right.

I still like the housing items I can get from fishing. The answer should be that they raise the drop rates of the rare fish, I suppose.

Arciris · March 2017

raj72616a wrote: »

i don't fish

other harvested resources are not replaced by the new housing mats. we get bast in addition to silk, we get regulus in addition to ore.

i don't see why the same logic should not be applied to fishing as well.

Exactly.
Housing items should drop in addition to fish.
I'm working on my first Master Angler. When homestead dropped, i had Dominion, starter islands, Cyrodiil, Craglorn and Coldharbour. All of the above took me considerably less time than it took me to get the Covenant Angler title alone, which I started after Homestead.
Now looking with despair at the Pact title even if I actually really like the housing items we can now find - especially those kelps

Jacozilla · March 2017

I don't know if housing killed fishing for serious fisherman, but fishing killed fishing for people like me - I only speak for myself but I presume there has to be at least one or few like me.

In short, I like chasing achievements as much as most, and probably more. I've chased all other achievements on main char other than fishing.

What I don't like about fishing is there is no direct feedback in the sense of knowing what kind of water it is, how to catch certain fish, or even what fish there are without reading 3rd party sites and using add ons. Only reason I even know how to mention these key words to google further to read up on it is I read it here on these forums.

Don't get me wrong, I love add ons. And I obviously read/participate on forums, and could be missing some gigantic clues about fishing that more experienced anglers may say 'you dope, you just said you wanted in game clues and here they are'

But my response would be I am at least average, and if those in game clues, feedback, etc exist, I haven't seen them obvious enough for me to give fishing a go. I just randomly cast every now and then, try all 4 standard bait and then ride off without having any clue from the game whether I should be using better bait, what water it is or even know why different water exists and what type it is.

So yea, for me - fishing...killed fishing. There's not enough feedback in-game for me to chase it.

N0TPLAYER2 · March 2017

To the post above, it's pretty simple once you know it. And there are books in game that give you info but who actually reads those? I don't and know many others don't.

With fishing tho, it's like this. 4 types of water, foul, ocean, lake and river.

Two types of bait for each water. Insect parts and shad for river, guts and minnow for lake, worms and chub for ocean, and crawlers and fish roe for foul water.

Each water has a tell. Lake water is still, river is moving water, foul will have bones or dead enemies near the fishing holes. Ocean doesn't have a specific tell but you can tell because you're on the coast.

There's a new food that released with the last festival, and it identifies the type of hole, and gives fishing holes the keen eye effect. Even tho I know usually which type of water it is, there are some mistakes (see deshaan, when it should be lake it's actually river, etc) I have been using the new food because it takes the guessing out of it and helps you to see the holes. It works great for fishing.

Also, you can tell what type the hole is by the fish pulled out. If you're unsure but then get a fish of a certain type, you then know which bait to use for special fish.

Ocean gives duhfish and longfin
Lake gives spadetail and silverside perch
River gives river betty and salmon
Foul gives trodh and slaughterfish

Hope this helps. I can't offer much on addons as I am on Xbox and do it the legit way (kidding!)

Huyen · March 2017

You can do all the math you want. In the end its RNG. I could have a 99% chance, and someone else just 1%, and he will get it before me.

MissBizz · March 2017

Jacozilla wrote: »

I don't know if housing killed fishing for serious fisherman, but fishing killed fishing for people like me - I only speak for myself but I presume there has to be at least one or few like me.

In short, I like chasing achievements as much as most, and probably more. I've chased all other achievements on main char other than fishing.

What I don't like about fishing is there is no direct feedback in the sense of knowing what kind of water it is, how to catch certain fish, or even what fish there are without reading 3rd party sites and using add ons. Only reason I even know how to mention these key words to google further to read up on it is I read it here on these forums.

Don't get me wrong, I love add ons. And I obviously read/participate on forums, and could be missing some gigantic clues about fishing that more experienced anglers may say 'you dope, you just said you wanted in game clues and here they are'

But my response would be I am at least average, and if those in game clues, feedback, etc exist, I haven't seen them obvious enough for me to give fishing a go. I just randomly cast every now and then, try all 4 standard bait and then ride off without having any clue from the game whether I should be using better bait, what water it is or even know why different water exists and what type it is.

So yea, for me - fishing...killed fishing. There's not enough feedback in-game for me to chase it.

There is a book that explains how to catch certain fish (it explains what bait to use for what water type). I don't find it difficult to determine the water type.. but there's a food in game you can use to do that for you. You're right in the sense that without add-ons the game doesn't tell you what fish from what water type you are missing... You just can see what fish at all you're missing for that zone

wolfie1.0. · March 2017

how about they put the housing items IN the gunny sacks? this seems to be the best option IMO.

AntMan100673 · March 2017

It depends how they've done the RNG.

Before it could of been a 3% chance of getting a green fish, a 1% chance of getting a blue fish and a 1% chance of getting a gunny sack leaving a 95% chance of getting a white fish.

Now they may have just added a 1% chance to get a housing item which has reduced the chance of getting a white fish to 94% without affecting your chances of getting the other items.

I'm not saying this is what they've done (I've not done enough fishing either before or after homestead to comment on the drop rates) but I'm just showing that more items doesn't necessarily mean lower odds

Tommy_The_Gun · March 2017

"Housing Has Killed Fishing"

No. Fishing committed RNG suicide...

mariskaas · March 2017

I don't know how the RNG changed but last time I went fishing I was aiming for the last blue in auridon, which has no foul water so it drops in all other waters (don't know if this lowers the chance).
I used a stack of 200 worms and got 4 sacks, 1 purple housing item, 4 greens and the rest white.
This of course does not say anything, but I did get a purple house item before a blue fish which suggest a higher droprate for housing items, but of course need a lot more data before drawing conclusions.
However if the droprate for housing items is higher it still may not effect the droprate for blue fish.

Kanereno · March 2017

N0TPLAYER2 wrote: »

I will start this by saying I have 3 master angler characters and have 20 fish to go on my 4th. My friend and i both have these stats as we love to fish in eso. We also play on Xbox so we're slightly behind the guy with 12 on pc!

With that said, housing has ruined fishing.

Here's why.

When fishing before housing; the odds were already awful. This is why Master Angler is always argued to be the hardest achievement. Sure, it's not beating maw on hardmode, but it shows true dedication. It takes FOREVER to catch all the fish required and takes a bit of knowledge to know what works best to accomplish this. Dedication is an understatement.

When fishing before, each water type contains two specific fish and a specialty bait, as well as three special fish. Two green and one blue. This isn't always the case but typically it is.

Each country has 4 water types. Let's take river fish for example. You can catch River Betty and Salmon. You can also catch fish roe, which is specialty bait for foul water. On top of that, there will be 2 green and 1 blue. The green fish have a low drop rate. You can go 1-500 fish to get one of these. They don't take 500 usually, but sometimes can. Anyone who has fished for the dab in stormhaven can agree with this.

Blue fish had an even lower drop rate. You can go 1000+ casts and STILL not get your fish. It's less than 1% of a chance, surely. Blue fish drop rate are worse than crown crates, take forever to get and are a true reward for those with patience to get them.

Before housing you had a possibility of pulling out any 6 of these items (2 fish, special bait, 2 greens and one 1 blue)

To simplify, catching 12 rare fish in 18 countries (and 1 in 3 islands) takes forever as all know. It's a total of 219 fish to catch (I may be off by a few)

Now with housing, let's cut those numbers down to 33% of what I mentioned above. You now have a chance at any of the 6 fish types before, and throw in an additional 15+ housing items possible to pull on any cast.

This makes the blue fish nearly impossible to catch. Before you had less than 1% to pull it out. And now it's a 1-21 chance, plus the diminished odds of a blue fish.

To simplify again, if it was 1/6 chance (it was worse) for a blue, it's now a 1/21 chance.

So before your good rng pull would reward you a blue fish. Now, it may reward you with a blue housing item, purple housing item, or even a gold housing item. If its 1-100 casts for these items, it now takes 10x(?) longer to pull the blue fish.

I probably am not saying this correctly as far as the numbers go. I'm not a numbers guy. But I do have the fishing experience to tell you it's turned excruciating to grind for a blue fish. I can pull 2-3 purple fish (god i despise this) which comes every 300-400 casts, and before that would be the blue fish needed for the achievement.

Tl;dr - the addition of housing items to fishing has diminished the odds of catching the blue fish tremendously.

As an experienced fisherman, I can tell you the grind has now tripled, quadrupled, if not worse. I have never in my experience went so long between blue fish. It's due to the addition of 15+ possible fishing/housing items added to the loot tables.

Hopefully others can add to this with any other data or experiences. It really ruins a great part of the game. People with the titles better cherish them. It just got brutal.

Please let the fishing items be purchased and removed from fishing itself. The grind was bad enough before!

Edit - Plus gunny sacks.

Jesus. Got about 3 paragraphs into it and then just didn't care anymore. Sorry not trying to be rude, but holy over done batman.

Tandor · March 2017

Adding extra catches such as housing items doesn't necessarily result in rare fish becoming rarer, they could have been added in a way that impacted on the odds of ordinary fish, bait or gunny sack being caught with the odds for the rare fish being left as before. Short of some very extensive statistical analysis by players it's really only ZOS who can confirm how they added housing items to fishing in terms of affecting the odds generally.

Put simply, if the chances of catching a rare fish before the housing items were added was (hypothetically) 1%, then with the housing items added the odds of catching a rare fish could still be set at 1% with the housing items only coming into contention if the casting didn't result in a rare fish being caught.

OrphanHelgen · March 2017

Takes longer to make achievement it seams like, but atleast it looks like you earn more gold by doing the achievement.

Arciris · March 2017

Tandor wrote: »

Adding extra catches such as housing items doesn't necessarily result in rare fish becoming rarer, they could have been added in a way that impacted on the odds of ordinary fish, bait or gunny sack being caught with the odds for the rare fish being left as before. Short of some very extensive statistical analysis by players it's really only ZOS who can confirm how they added housing items to fishing in terms of affecting the odds generally.

Put simply, if the chances of catching a rare fish before the housing items were added was (hypothetically) 1%, then with the housing items added the odds of catching a rare fish could still be set at 1% with the housing items only coming into contention if the casting didn't result in a rare fish being caught.

That is too smart so I'm pretty sure it's not working like that

WhiteCoatSyndrome · March 2017

I'd still like to see some craftable lures to let us target the rare fish we're missing. Not just the blue fish either; hoping the RNG gives me the one green fish I need instead of the other two over and over is tiresome too.

mb10 · March 2017

And that is exactly why I grinded master angler a month before housing.

As soon as they said fish to be caught and used as furniture and I rushed to finish the achievement.

Sucks for everyone else now tbh but at least perfect roe price will probably increase

Keep_Door · March 2017

Fishing killed fishing.

Argruna · March 2017

Find a fishing buddy? If I remember, the chances of rare fish goes up the more people fishing in that spot. At least that was what I remember before Homestead dropped.

WhiteCoatSyndrome · March 2017

Argruna wrote: »

Find a fishing buddy? If I remember, the chances of rare fish goes up the more people fishing in that spot. At least that was what I remember before Homestead dropped.

It does; a few weeks back I fished with some guildies and had much better rates on rares. I should pester them for another fishing outing...

Mix · March 2017

You need stats! You have to prove that they didn't just lower the chance of a white fish and leave the chance of the blue fish, green fish, gunny sack the same and add in the housing items.

Also, your list is deceptive as not all housing items are caught in the same water types.

I haven't done much fishing yet (too busy pickpocketing trying to determine all the unique items from different npc types!) but when I did I saw the green and blue trophy fish in a similar manner to pre-Update 13. I don't have actual numbers but it didn't feel like I was having to fish excessively to see the trophy fish.

milkbox · March 2017

Are the housing item drops specific to a type of water?

I see in the list that all housing items are grouped into the same lake in Stonefalls, but I was under the impression (or just made the assumption) that the drops were contingent on water type.

I thought items like starfish and coral would only be found in oceans, trout only found in rivers (which is where I found mine) and so on...

I don't mean to start an urban legend, but for some reason, I thought it worked that way- which would change the math a bit.

I'm about 2/3 of the way to Master Angler after 3+ years, so I should totally have it by some time in 2018.

Tabbycat · March 2017

Wait a minute! You mean I can get housing stuff from fishing?

OMG really?

I am so going back to fishing now. OK maybe not right now since the servers are borked but you know what I mean.

I must collect all the shinies!

MyNameIsElias · March 2017

Glad i got master angler on all toons already then, but damn thats gonna suck when they release more character slots for warden

Jemcrystal · March 2017

It's still boring. Can't zos just automate it so I can afk fish and go watch a movie or something?

Giskard · March 2017

I'm not sure the problem you're concerned about actually exists. Have you collected drop rate stats or found a post about it?

I've been fishing for about a month before and now after housing and haven't noticed a change in drop rates, tbh. My guess is they haven't reduced drop rates for existing rare fish, but for normal fish. For example, if rates were:

1% Blue fish
6% Green fish (3% per fish)
3% Gurney bag
90% Common fish (45% per fish)

My guess is it's now:

1% Blue fish
6% Green fish (3% per fish)
3% Gurney bag
3% Housing item
87% Common fish (43.5% per fish)

These are purely made up numbers and I've not included bait you can catch, but the point I'm trying to make is they didn't have to reduce the rare fish rates in order to introduce new items; all they had to do was reduce the common fish rate.

I caught two blues from the same spot and instance of the spot yesterday. Now I've gone at least ten without a blue, but this still feels normal to me.

Theoriginalubiety · March 2017

Wait a minute...You can get housing items from fishing! Oh, you just recruited a new apprentice. I'm going fishing!!