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Questing and Immersion: Mediocre at best
cowsayUshi
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Traveling through Tamriel, even five days before most people had the chance to set foot in this sandbox I and many others stuck with this game from 2014 till now, eagerly waiting for what’s to come in our first expansion. Although I never took the time to go post on the forums, and a few additions to the game were added because of the feedback you guys give, so I want to give my feedback for one of many reasons why I cannot call this a mainline Elder Scrolls game. Whether its events are truly cannon the questing and exploration that ZeniMax uses creates a bland, hand holding experience, that for an Elder Scrolls game is abysmal and for MMO quite mediocre when compared to all the risks ZeniMax took to make this game feel like an Elder Scrolls title.
A linear path most traveled:
Prompting you where your next adventure starts, quest markers are littered throughout the world like most MMOs, but Elder Scrolls Online shouldn’t be like most MMOs. ZeniMax took risks to make this game unique, with one Tamriel, the justice system, and the wide variety of mixing and matching the users have when creating their character, ZeniMax took it low to the ground with one more the most important aspects of an Elder Scrolls game: the satisfaction of exploration. Ignoring these quest markers doesn’t add any immersion and often crippling, as they’re usually the only queue given to us when presenting a new quest, other than the annoying follower NPCs that go where ever you go until you accept their quest, there isn’t a show put on by most NPCs to give hints of the possibility that this might lead to a reward.
The base game quests are bland as most of us know, with the tiniest selection of dialogue options, illusions of impact in the world and quests where we supposed to have a choice. And areas separated by instance, where so called “deadric invasions” as an example and NPC vs NPC combat is laughable to how small scaled and petty ZeniMax’s attempt is to selling us the task at hand.
Although it’s too late to make any difference to the game, improving the base game in such a large scale doesn’t produce any income, and the amount of animation, voice acting, and detail that would have to go into the game to produce the traditional Elder Scrolls feeling of exploration and limit the hand holding to only the very beginning would be costly and would probably take a long time if ZeniMax ever considers doing an overhaul.
Well, that’s my rant on what I feel about the game. What about you guys, do you feel the same? Or see a point that needs to be refuted?
Edited by cowsayUshi on March 4, 2017 8:45PM A linear path most traveled:
Prompting you where your next adventure starts, quest markers are littered throughout the world like most MMOs, but Elder Scrolls Online shouldn’t be like most MMOs. ZeniMax took risks to make this game unique, with one Tamriel, the justice system, and the wide variety of mixing and matching the users have when creating their character, ZeniMax took it low to the ground with one more the most important aspects of an Elder Scrolls game: the satisfaction of exploration. Ignoring these quest markers doesn’t add any immersion and often crippling, as they’re usually the only queue given to us when presenting a new quest, other than the annoying follower NPCs that go where ever you go until you accept their quest, there isn’t a show put on by most NPCs to give hints of the possibility that this might lead to a reward.
The base game quests are bland as most of us know, with the tiniest selection of dialogue options, illusions of impact in the world and quests where we supposed to have a choice. And areas separated by instance, where so called “deadric invasions” as an example and NPC vs NPC combat is laughable to how small scaled and petty ZeniMax’s attempt is to selling us the task at hand.
Although it’s too late to make any difference to the game, improving the base game in such a large scale doesn’t produce any income, and the amount of animation, voice acting, and detail that would have to go into the game to produce the traditional Elder Scrolls feeling of exploration and limit the hand holding to only the very beginning would be costly and would probably take a long time if ZeniMax ever considers doing an overhaul.
Well, that’s my rant on what I feel about the game. What about you guys, do you feel the same? Or see a point that needs to be refuted?
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ku5h✭✭✭✭✭
✭First of all this was never ment to be Elder Scrolls sequel, but indeed an Elder Scrolls MMO. Now that's established, tell me of one MMO that has that much effort put into questing. Even if this game was single player i would probably play it for couple of months, which i couldn't tell for any other MMO ever.4 -
cpuScientist✭✭✭✭✭
✭cowsayUshi wrote: »Traveling through Tamriel, even five days before most people had the chance to set foot in this sandbox I and many others stuck with this game from 2014 till now, eagerly waiting for what’s to come in our first expansion. Although I never took the time to go post on the forums, and a few additions to the game were added because of the feedback you guys give, so I want to give my feedback for one of many reasons why I cannot call this a mainline Elder Scrolls game. Whether its events are truly cannon the questing and exploration that ZeniMax uses creates a bland, hand holding experience, that for an Elder Scrolls game is abysmal and for MMO quite mediocre when compared to all the risks ZeniMax took to make this game feel like an Elder Scrolls title.
A linear path most traveled:
Prompting you where your next adventure starts, quest markers are littered throughout the world like most MMOs, but Elder Scrolls Online shouldn’t be like most MMOs. ZeniMax took risks to make this game unique, with one Tamriel, the justice system, and the wide variety of mixing and matching the users have when creating their character, ZeniMax took it low to the ground with one more the most important aspects of an Elder Scrolls game: the satisfaction of exploration. Ignoring these quest markers doesn’t add any immersion and often crippling, as they’re usually the only queue given to us when presenting a new quest, other than the annoying follower NPCs that go where ever you go until you accept their quest, there isn’t a show put on by most NPCs to give hints of the possibility that this might lead to a reward.
The base game quests are bland as most of us know, with the tiniest selection of dialogue options, illusions of impact in the world and quests where we supposed to have a choice. And areas separated by instance, where so called “deadric invasions” as an example and NPC vs NPC combat is laughable to how small scaled and petty ZeniMax’s attempt is to selling us the task at hand.
Although it’s too late to make any difference to the game, improving the base game in such a large scale doesn’t produce any income, and the amount of animation, voice acting, and detail that would have to go into the game to produce the traditional Elder Scrolls feeling of exploration and limit the hand holding to only the very beginning would be costly and would probably take a long time if ZeniMax ever considers doing an overhaul.
Well, that’s my rant on what I feel about the game. What about you guys, do you feel the same? Or see a point that needs to be refuted?
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Rev Rielle✭✭✭✭✭
✭I think the questing is very good. It's clear they've made a significant effort with it, both in dialogue and story. And in terms of quest markers; I believe there is an option for you to disable them.If you can be anything, be kind.3 -
cowsayUshi✭✭First of all this was never ment to be Elder Scrolls sequel, but indeed an Elder Scrolls MMO. Now that's established, tell me of one MMO that has that much effort put into questing. Even if this game was single player i would probably play it for couple of months, which i couldn't tell for any other MMO ever.
Please watch the first video ever put out by Zenimax Online Studios on The Elder Scrolls Online: An Introduction to The Elder Scrolls Online, where Paul Sage says:When the team set out, they wanted to create strategic real time combat, we wanted to create a lot of world immersion, wanted to create a landscape that was rewarded exploration."
And it doesn't feel that way, being carried this games questing structure the reward of exploration isn't quite there for the reasons I stated above.1 -
Weasel_Tunneler✭✭✭First of all this was never ment to be Elder Scrolls sequel, but indeed an Elder Scrolls MMO. Now that's established, tell me of one MMO that has that much effort put into questing. Even if this game was single player i would probably play it for couple of months, which i couldn't tell for any other MMO ever.
Runescape.0 -
AcadianPaladin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭When I started playing TES, it was with Oblivion - and I loved it. Many Morrowind players informed me what a horrible dumbed down piece of junk Oblivion was. That put me so off of Morrowind that I refused to do more with that game beyond look at a couple vids and laugh at the stick figures, static NPCs and dated graphics. Years later I moved to Skyrim and was pretty happy there. Over time, I grew tired of managing tempermental mod load orders and decided to let someone else keep my game running. ESO fits that bill.
As far as hand-holding and such, I dislike 'puzzles' and 'stump the dummy' quests because they yank me straight out of the game to consult a walk through. Say what you will, but I want a game I cannot really 'screw up'. That is what lets me just play it as I encounter it instead of bailing out go consult a walk through every quest. ESO does fine on this count.
My complaints with ESO are multiplayer-related. Foe respawn times are so fast (to accommodate many players) that it 'pushes' you along too quickly (for me) in dungeons and foe-infested areas. Balance is also a problem for me. Again, with many players and in a game that supports PvP, I guess balance is important. I would much prefer to set my own 'balance' for my own tastes and abilities via difficulty slider, console commands, etc but realize this is not really possible in a MP game.
So while I consider that ESO being MP is a drawback it is, on balance, one that I live with to enjoy the massive scale of the game, fabulous ambiance/graphics, superb combat system (compared to SP ES games), etc.
Just my two crowns.Edited by AcadianPaladin on March 4, 2017 9:25PMPC NA(no Steam), PvE, mostly solo2 -
mickeyx✭✭✭✭cowsayUshi wrote: »Traveling through Tamriel, even five days before most people had the chance to set foot in this sandbox I and many others stuck with this game from 2014 till now, eagerly waiting for what’s to come in our first expansion. Although I never took the time to go post on the forums, and a few additions to the game were added because of the feedback you guys give, so I want to give my feedback for one of many reasons why I cannot call this a mainline Elder Scrolls game. Whether its events are truly cannon the questing and exploration that ZeniMax uses creates a bland, hand holding experience, that for an Elder Scrolls game is abysmal and for MMO quite mediocre when compared to all the risks ZeniMax took to make this game feel like an Elder Scrolls title.
A linear path most traveled:
Prompting you where your next adventure starts, quest markers are littered throughout the world like most MMOs, but Elder Scrolls Online shouldn’t be like most MMOs. ZeniMax took risks to make this game unique, with one Tamriel, the justice system, and the wide variety of mixing and matching the users have when creating their character, ZeniMax took it low to the ground with one more the most important aspects of an Elder Scrolls game: the satisfaction of exploration. Ignoring these quest markers doesn’t add any immersion and often crippling, as they’re usually the only queue given to us when presenting a new quest, other than the annoying follower NPCs that go where ever you go until you accept their quest, there isn’t a show put on by most NPCs to give hints of the possibility that this might lead to a reward.
The base game quests are bland as most of us know, with the tiniest selection of dialogue options, illusions of impact in the world and quests where we supposed to have a choice. And areas separated by instance, where so called “deadric invasions” as an example and NPC vs NPC combat is laughable to how small scaled and petty ZeniMax’s attempt is to selling us the task at hand.
Although it’s too late to make any difference to the game, improving the base game in such a large scale doesn’t produce any income, and the amount of animation, voice acting, and detail that would have to go into the game to produce the traditional Elder Scrolls feeling of exploration and limit the hand holding to only the very beginning would be costly and would probably take a long time if ZeniMax ever considers doing an overhaul.
Well, that’s my rant on what I feel about the game. What about you guys, do you feel the same? Or see a point that needs to be refuted?
No to overhaul. thank you very much. Majority of people enjoy questing the way it is. You can always go back and play the ES Morrowind. Go ahead knock yourself out.1 -
MrDenimChicken✭✭✭✭✭cowsayUshi wrote: »Traveling through Tamriel, even five days before most people had the chance to set foot in this sandbox I and many others stuck with this game from 2014 till now, eagerly waiting for what’s to come in our first expansion. Although I never took the time to go post on the forums, and a few additions to the game were added because of the feedback you guys give, so I want to give my feedback for one of many reasons why I cannot call this a mainline Elder Scrolls game. Whether its events are truly cannon the questing and exploration that ZeniMax uses creates a bland, hand holding experience, that for an Elder Scrolls game is abysmal and for MMO quite mediocre when compared to all the risks ZeniMax took to make this game feel like an Elder Scrolls title.
A linear path most traveled:
Prompting you where your next adventure starts, quest markers are littered throughout the world like most MMOs, but Elder Scrolls Online shouldn’t be like most MMOs. ZeniMax took risks to make this game unique, with one Tamriel, the justice system, and the wide variety of mixing and matching the users have when creating their character, ZeniMax took it low to the ground with one more the most important aspects of an Elder Scrolls game: the satisfaction of exploration. Ignoring these quest markers doesn’t add any immersion and often crippling, as they’re usually the only queue given to us when presenting a new quest, other than the annoying follower NPCs that go where ever you go until you accept their quest, there isn’t a show put on by most NPCs to give hints of the possibility that this might lead to a reward.
The base game quests are bland as most of us know, with the tiniest selection of dialogue options, illusions of impact in the world and quests where we supposed to have a choice. And areas separated by instance, where so called “deadric invasions” as an example and NPC vs NPC combat is laughable to how small scaled and petty ZeniMax’s attempt is to selling us the task at hand.
Although it’s too late to make any difference to the game, improving the base game in such a large scale doesn’t produce any income, and the amount of animation, voice acting, and detail that would have to go into the game to produce the traditional Elder Scrolls feeling of exploration and limit the hand holding to only the very beginning would be costly and would probably take a long time if ZeniMax ever considers doing an overhaul.
Well, that’s my rant on what I feel about the game. What about you guys, do you feel the same? Or see a point that needs to be refuted?
I think most people would agree with you, but you won't find those people since they either don't play this game or don't post on these forums. Most of the people on these forums are pretty easily entertained fanboys.
the questing in the base game is indeed as you say, linear and copy-pasted. No dialogue options, no real mystery, and very little heart.
Sure it might have a little more effort than most MMO's, but MMO's don't prioritize questing plots. The gameplay is what matters and it's what makes players stay and continue to pay either those monthly fees or store items. That's the main reason I continue to play.1 -
Eshelmen✭✭✭✭✭Honestly, I'm not going to lie. I've been playing ESO pretty much non stop since day 1 on PS4 and haven't a clue what's going on with the lore. I frankly don't care. Good guy here, bad guy there, let me kill something and get rewarded. Is this the approach I wanted originally? Nope. Has the uninteresting characters/repetitive quests convinced me that fast clicking through all of the mumbo jumbo, actually benefits me more?(time saved equals quicker in game progression) Absolutely. I do agree that the quests involved aren't very exciting, at least on the adventure side of it, but at the same time, questing can be exiting more so and only for the rewards in which I get for completing said quest.
I've had a nice ride with exploring tamriel throughout these last two years. And to an extent, and with how I place my expectations on MMOs in general, ESOs exploration still holds a spot for some of my most cherished memories involved in an mmo. (I've been playing MMOs since AO) Not so much now, but earlier before I even reached level 50 on my first toon. The unknowing side of this game in how a young and new player perceives it, is what makes the game amazing in the regard to exploration.
And to be frank, since ESO isn't only about questing, it makes the game that much better knowing there are lot of other things I can be doing. PVP, dungeons, trials etc..Edited by Eshelmen on March 4, 2017 9:52PMPC and PS4 EP only player0 -
Hallothiel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Just how could an MMO have quest line options that led to radically different outcomes? It can be done on a single player rpg (see The Witcher series on how to do it well) but not really on an online game.
And you can go exploring. Easily. So very easily. And you can now quest how you like - in fact people have complained that they don't know where to go next so its not as obvious to some.2 -
Tabbycat✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭When the game was in early testing, it didn't have quest markers. ZOS discovered that players had problems finding the quests and became frustrated in not knowing where to go or what to do. They tried it, it didn't work out.
Seems like one of those ideas that sounds great on paper but functions poorly when implemented.Founder and Co-GM of The Psijic Order Guild (NA)
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Everstorm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭As much as I would like it it's simple not feasible to add many different choices in quests in a mmo. It has to be a consistent world for every player. You can't for instance give the option to either help the Queen or join the Veiled Heritage because you would divide the players into two different worlds. And that's just one questline. You can give small options for irrelevant npcs but not more than that.
A mmo is a different beast from a single player rpg. You have to appreciate it for what it is, or play something else.1 -
mickeyx✭✭✭✭MrDenimChicken wrote: »cowsayUshi wrote: »Traveling through Tamriel, even five days before most people had the chance to set foot in this sandbox I and many others stuck with this game from 2014 till now, eagerly waiting for what’s to come in our first expansion. Although I never took the time to go post on the forums, and a few additions to the game were added because of the feedback you guys give, so I want to give my feedback for one of many reasons why I cannot call this a mainline Elder Scrolls game. Whether its events are truly cannon the questing and exploration that ZeniMax uses creates a bland, hand holding experience, that for an Elder Scrolls game is abysmal and for MMO quite mediocre when compared to all the risks ZeniMax took to make this game feel like an Elder Scrolls title.
A linear path most traveled:
Prompting you where your next adventure starts, quest markers are littered throughout the world like most MMOs, but Elder Scrolls Online shouldn’t be like most MMOs. ZeniMax took risks to make this game unique, with one Tamriel, the justice system, and the wide variety of mixing and matching the users have when creating their character, ZeniMax took it low to the ground with one more the most important aspects of an Elder Scrolls game: the satisfaction of exploration. Ignoring these quest markers doesn’t add any immersion and often crippling, as they’re usually the only queue given to us when presenting a new quest, other than the annoying follower NPCs that go where ever you go until you accept their quest, there isn’t a show put on by most NPCs to give hints of the possibility that this might lead to a reward.
The base game quests are bland as most of us know, with the tiniest selection of dialogue options, illusions of impact in the world and quests where we supposed to have a choice. And areas separated by instance, where so called “deadric invasions” as an example and NPC vs NPC combat is laughable to how small scaled and petty ZeniMax’s attempt is to selling us the task at hand.
Although it’s too late to make any difference to the game, improving the base game in such a large scale doesn’t produce any income, and the amount of animation, voice acting, and detail that would have to go into the game to produce the traditional Elder Scrolls feeling of exploration and limit the hand holding to only the very beginning would be costly and would probably take a long time if ZeniMax ever considers doing an overhaul.
Well, that’s my rant on what I feel about the game. What about you guys, do you feel the same? Or see a point that needs to be refuted?
I think most people would agree with you, but you won't find those people since they either don't play this game or don't post on these forums. Most of the people on these forums are pretty easily entertained fanboys.
the questing in the base game is indeed as you say, linear and copy-pasted. No dialogue options, no real mystery, and very little heart.
Sure it might have a little more effort than most MMO's, but MMO's don't prioritize questing plots. The gameplay is what matters and it's what makes players stay and continue to pay either those monthly fees or store items. That's the main reason I continue to play.
Not everyone who disagree with you on quality of quests is an easily entertained fanboy. Time to climb down from your high horse. You ain't that special or better than anyone else.2 -
cowsayUshi✭✭MrDenimChicken wrote: »The gameplay is what matters and it's what makes players stay and continue to pay either those monthly fees or store items. That's the main reason I continue to play.
Although I have little comments on the combat on this game, ESO is still one of the greater MMOs out there thanks to their customization and freedom that makes your character feel great. And I would defiantly agree that the gameplay is one of the greater aspects, and the reason why I kept on playing for so long.Hallothiel wrote: »Just how could an MMO have quest line options that led to radically different outcomes? It can be done on a single player rpg
Radical changes? Impossible unless the constant separation of player instance from the earlier times of the game would come back, and that's something we don't want. But impact to the world through the quests you do, is something I want to see. NPCs might shout the name of the hero that saved the day, but what about the environment. One case would be the City in Daggerfall, Camlorn after beat Faolchu and ridding the town of it's werewolves it still sits there, burning... Although ZeniMax got the werewolves that loomed there out the way it's still quite empty, showing an attempt at restoration, but none quite convincing, and some places that are just empty like North Point in Rivenspire.When the game was in early testing, it didn't have quest markers. ZOS discovered that players had problems finding the quests and became frustrated in not knowing where to go or what to do. They tried it, it didn't work out.
Seems like one of those ideas that sounds great on paper but functions poorly when implemented.
Could it be the NPCs didn't put much of a show to grab the adventurers attention? Because there will always be quests that are missed, but when the majority aren't touched this might be the case.
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