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Justice system needs that second part which is missing.
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Betheny✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭You do have the choice of taking part in the PVP portion of the justice system. ..a criminal by choosing to commit a crime and accumulating a bounty. How is there no choice there?
Choosing to commit a crime is a PVE activity. You do not put PVP penalties on a PVE activity.
That is taking away the choice of the PVE player to participate in a PVE activity.
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Rataroto✭✭✭✭HOW IS THIS THREAD STILL BEING REVIVED?
some people just dig so far on the forums geeez0 -
Wrathmane✭✭✭You do have the choice of taking part in the PVP portion of the justice system. ..a criminal by choosing to commit a crime and accumulating a bounty. How is there no choice there?
Choosing to commit a crime is a PVE activity. You do not put PVP penalties on a PVE activity.
That is taking away the choice of the PVE player to participate in a PVE activity.
Ok fine... then can you suggest some realistic and concrete PVE penalties that would persuade someone to not commit a crime? Because the existing penalties aren't substantial enough... even in the ES games the prision sentences you get degrade your skills dependent on the time spent in jailSha'ria Wrathmane - Belora Wrathmane - Leora WrathmaneFormer Head of Recruitment for Vokundein1 -
Betheny✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭You do have the choice of taking part in the PVP portion of the justice system. ..a criminal by choosing to commit a crime and accumulating a bounty. How is there no choice there?
Choosing to commit a crime is a PVE activity. You do not put PVP penalties on a PVE activity.
That is taking away the choice of the PVE player to participate in a PVE activity.
Ok fine... then can you suggest some realistic and concrete PVE penalties that would persuade someone to not commit a crime? Because the existing penalties aren't substantial enough
What you're not getting is that crime is already an enjoyable activity for PVE players - we like it and do not need it "improved" or desire "greater penalties" of any kind.
kthxbai4 -
bulbousb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭
You do know the setting of this game is a three-faction war, right? And that you join a faction when you create your character? And that automatically makes you enemies of other PLAYERS, not just other NPCs?Choosing to commit a crime is a PVE activity. You do not put PVP penalties on a PVE activity.
Given this setting, it is absolutely ludicrous to defend the concept that (when engaging in factional combat) you can be attacked by enemy NPCs but not enemy players. It doesn't make sense from any standpoint - except financial.
Some people are just wired wrong and have an irrational fear of engaging other players, and their money is just as "green" as anyone else's.
ESO would be a better game if there were limited PvP in most zones by implementing a "temporary enemy" mechanic. But I will admit, it might have a slightly lower playerbase than it does now.
Lethal zergling2 -
apostate9✭✭✭✭✭
Fear it...No, not at all.
Find its a right royal pita, yes.
I needed to get to a crafting station in IC to make a set of gear for someone. I knew I was going to get killed; IC, Cyrodiil, pvp area... So I go and end up fighting npc/daedra. Pvper waits until the fight is over, then attacks and kills me. Not hard to do, since I sheathed my weapons and stood there. Respawn, and head back to the station. Again, I have to fight npcs. Again the same pvper waits until the fight is over and attacks. Again, I don't fight back. Respawn, and head back. And again the pvper attacks after I fight with npcs. Someone said "Well they were looking for a real pvp fight." which I think is absolute BS. If the pvper wanted a real pvp fight, they would have either helped with the npc/daedra enemies, or waited until my stamina/health/magic regenerated instead of attacking instantly after I killed the npcs. The pvper finally got tired of killing someone who didn't fight back and let me get to the station on the 5th try. Fun for them? Probably. Fun for me? Not at all.
I'd much rather get killed by npcs. They don't teabag, tell me what my Mom said last night while they were banging her, or question my parentage/species/gender or sexual preference. I play this game for fun, as a hobby. Getting constantly interfered with while trying to do content for the Thieves or DB content that I paid for isn't really fun.
If the people who want to be able to open world pvp for whatever reasons ask for a separate instance or server, I'd cheerfully, happily support it. The people who want to kill other players all the time everywhere could do that without bothering anyone who wants to play pve for fun.
So, you entered a PVP zone, made a point of going through a dangerous area alone, and then engaged in a futile act of "defiance" by standing there helplessly and refusing to fight back when a player WAITS for you to finish grinding the mobs and then attacks. I guess he didn't make it easy enough for you be letting your pools regen fully? How much of gentleman did he need to be?
It wasn't fun for you, because you wouldn't engage. You knew the game, and refused to play. It isn't the fault of the other player, or the game that you can't seem grok PVP. It's you. You showed up in a PVP zone and instead of playing, you protested.
Why? Because the NPCs don't call you names. Which this guy didn't even do. All of this sounds...logical to you? It didn't occur to you to not be passive aggresive and salty and you know...fight back a bit? Because you created the suckiness yourself. You preordained that outcome, when you immolated yourself on the altar of Saltiness, instead of engaging the other players in the game. Who knows, you might have killed him and got HIS rocks.
So, maybe try Skyrim, you will never get ganked. But if you enter IC again, consider playing the game you're logged into, and you might find you do like it just a bit.
Edited by apostate9 on March 3, 2017 8:39PM0 -
Betheny✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭bulbousb16_ESO wrote: »
That is irrelevant in the PVE world, as you can see clearly with One Tamriel.bulbousb16_ESO wrote: »ESO would be a better game if there were limited PvP in most zones
No, it would be a worse game, with hardly anyone playing it.
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apostate9✭✭✭✭✭bulbousb16_ESO wrote: »
That is irrelevant in the PVE world, as you can see clearly with One Tamriel.bulbousb16_ESO wrote: »ESO would be a better game if there were limited PvP in most zones
No, it would be a worse game, with hardly anyone playing it.
No. It would be better.
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Betheny✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭bulbousb16_ESO wrote: »
That is irrelevant in the PVE world, as you can see clearly with One Tamriel.bulbousb16_ESO wrote: »ESO would be a better game if there were limited PvP in most zones
No, it would be a worse game, with hardly anyone playing it.
No. It would be better.
No, it would be worse.0 -
Betheny✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭bulbousb16_ESO wrote: »
That is irrelevant in the PVE world, as you can see clearly with One Tamriel.bulbousb16_ESO wrote: »ESO would be a better game if there were limited PvP in most zones
No, it would be a worse game, with hardly anyone playing it.
No. It would be better.
No, it would be worse.
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apostate9✭✭✭✭✭bulbousb16_ESO wrote: »
That is irrelevant in the PVE world, as you can see clearly with One Tamriel.bulbousb16_ESO wrote: »ESO would be a better game if there were limited PvP in most zones
No, it would be a worse game, with hardly anyone playing it.
No. It would be better.
No, it would be worse.
Better.
See? I could go all day.
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bulbousb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Yes, you are quite correct. And, despite your attempts to deflect valid criticisms with cute cats, I think even you know that One Tamriel makes no sense now from a logical standpoint.That is irrelevant in the PVE world, as you can see clearly with One Tamriel.
If I'm part of the Aldmeri Dominion, how can I freely jump at any time to another zone and then start killing Dominion soldiers? It made little sense before 1T (using some Cadwell magic) but now you can do it even before you finish the main storyline and get to that part.
Surely, we can agree that cleaning up that bit of nonsense that has resulted from a major game redesign would make for a better game?
Lethal zergling0 -
STEVIL✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭@Wrathmane
"Ok fine... then can you suggest some realistic and concrete PVE penalties that would persuade someone to not commit a crime?"
Huh?
Does it at all make sense to you that after building an entire sub-system and two DLC around players characters playing injustice actiivities the game should have penalties raised so much they convince people to not commit crimes?
What's next? Mudcrabs summon world boss giant crab daedra to discourage grinding and one shot whole groups delve bosses to show players daily quests are to be aoided?
How many of other casual play systems in the game should be likewise "helped" with stiffer penalties until its enough to persuade someone not to play those?
I do love how the plan B after plan A "PvP injustice" always seems to wrap itself around making folks stop playing the pie injustice.
Its like a case of "take away" pve injustice cuz the didn't get their pvp injustice.
On another unrelated note...
I don't like mint chocolate chip but that does not mean I am afraid of it. If you try real hard you may find things like that in your life too.
Proudly skooma free while talks-when-drunk is in mandatory public housing.
YFMV Your Fun May Vary.
First Law of Nerf-o-Dynamics
"The good way I used to get good kills *with good skill* was good but the way others kill me now is bad."0 -
Argruna✭✭✭Go to target banker only to have them move as I press E and steal the stack of coins behind them instead. Next all I see is a flash of light from the swathe of people in the bank and I am dead. All because the banker moved.
Decide to do Thieve's Guild main quests on a fresh character and enter the first Tresspassing area...and see nothing but flash of light from the swathe of people camping that point and killing each other because everybody be flagged. Yep, I died before Quen could even utter a sound.
And I know people bring up Warcraft. Well they mixed pve/pvp. I rarely saw it. RARELY. Why? Because on pve servers, the only people flagged were those roleplaying with a friend on Horde/Alliance and doing it in some remote corner of the world, or someone wanted to get the PVP Outland quests done. PvP realms? Welp do your research on that because not only are most of them low pop, most aren't balanced either. I can tell you right now that if you made an Alliance toon on Thrall, you are gonna get well acquainted with the spirit resser and dungeons since there would be no questing happening. As an FYI, Thrall's H:A is 10:1. Even Eve Online has safe space for those that don't want to deal with that.
So no, keep PvP out of and far far away from the Justice System. Even the devs said there is no way we can guarantee griefing so it's out. You want risk for criminal activities? Here's a solution. More guards. I'm not talking human, I'm talking unkillable guard dogs. Wanna rob that Mage Guild, well I find it hard to believe they don't have that place magically booby-trapped to high heaven. As for the human guards. Most of them cept for a few are Dragon Knights. Spice it up. Have them patrol in pairs. Human and dog, DK and Mage, Templar and DK, NB and DK, just random combos everywhere. There's your risk. Oh and those guard dogs? They don't give up until you are dead or a way out of town, they also can summon more unkillable dogs. Have fun with that.0 -
BringsliteSoul Shriven
Hi Guys,
Totally new here.
Theme Park MMOs are not based on the same level of risk vs reward that Sandbox MMOs build on. THe only real risk vs reward in a typical themepark is usually the RNG in some crafting and/or the cash store "crates" or other lotto style items. Look at this game as a whole. There is almost NO risk anywhere...
As a sandbox player(typically) I would love to see some justice that is player actionable against "LawBreakers!" It has to be implemented in a way that does not step on the very popular playstyle of the Thief, in this game though. That is a tough nut to crack...Edited by Bringslite on March 3, 2017 10:26PM0 -
srfrogg23✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭"Of course there aren't any meaningful consequences for doing it. It's a video game."
So then...getting killed by a player instead of a robot doesn't really matter to you..right? Since getting "killed" by a human player isn't a meaningful consequence? And I agree, it isn't. Maybe we should stop acting like the most casual touch of player vs. player competition in a MMORPG will literally destroy lives and shatter people's self-worth forever?
Being killed every once in a while in a video game is not a problem. Spawn camping and griefing is a problem.
If Zenimax were to make it so players could kill other players, here's what would happen:
You'd get a bunch of trolling jackasses hanging out in front of the entrances to Outlaw's Refuges just waiting for someone with a bounty to come along so they can all gank-bang them for lulz.
The justice system, thieve's guild, and dark brotherhood content are all solo-PvE content. Just like the rest of the questing and exploration content.
Letting trolls pester the crap out solo-non-PvPers for lulz will just break that content. And, since I spent money on that content, I have zero desire to see it ruined by a bunch of *** who want to gank non-PvPers because they're too chicken-*** to go to Cyrodiil and play with the actual PvPers.3 -
apostate9✭✭✭✭✭"Of course there aren't any meaningful consequences for doing it. It's a video game."
So then...getting killed by a player instead of a robot doesn't really matter to you..right? Since getting "killed" by a human player isn't a meaningful consequence? And I agree, it isn't. Maybe we should stop acting like the most casual touch of player vs. player competition in a MMORPG will literally destroy lives and shatter people's self-worth forever?
Being killed every once in a while in a video game is not a problem. Spawn camping and griefing is a problem.
If Zenimax were to make it so players could kill other players, here's what would happen:
You'd get a bunch of trolling jackasses hanging out in front of the entrances to Outlaw's Refuges just waiting for someone with a bounty to come along so they can all gank-bang them for lulz.
The justice system, thieve's guild, and dark brotherhood content are all solo-PvE content. Just like the rest of the questing and exploration content.
Letting trolls pester the crap out solo-non-PvPers for lulz will just break that content. And, since I spent money on that content, I have zero desire to see it ruined by a bunch of *** who want to gank non-PvPers because they're too chicken-*** to go to Cyrodiil and play with the actual PvPers.
How would you spawn camp someone who had died for their crimes, thus removing the PVP flag?
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srfrogg23✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭You do have the choice of taking part in the PVP portion of the justice system. ..a criminal by choosing to commit a crime and accumulating a bounty. How is there no choice there?
Choosing to commit a crime is a PVE activity. You do not put PVP penalties on a PVE activity.
That is taking away the choice of the PVE player to participate in a PVE activity.
Ok fine... then can you suggest some realistic and concrete PVE penalties that would persuade someone to not commit a crime? Because the existing penalties aren't substantial enough... even in the ES games the prision sentences you get degrade your skills dependent on the time spent in jail
Dude, if it isn't up to your standard, then don't do it. If you don't enjoy it, don't do it. If you're not doing it, then it's none of your business.
There are penalties for getting caught. They're not up to your standards. So what?
Why are you so concerned with what random strangers are doing to entertain themselves in the game? It doesn't affect you.
You don't see me complaining about ganking and zerging in Cyrodiil. I don't play that content and it's not my business what other people do to entertain themselves while they are in Cyrodiil.3 -
srfrogg23✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭"Of course there aren't any meaningful consequences for doing it. It's a video game."
So then...getting killed by a player instead of a robot doesn't really matter to you..right? Since getting "killed" by a human player isn't a meaningful consequence? And I agree, it isn't. Maybe we should stop acting like the most casual touch of player vs. player competition in a MMORPG will literally destroy lives and shatter people's self-worth forever?
Being killed every once in a while in a video game is not a problem. Spawn camping and griefing is a problem.
If Zenimax were to make it so players could kill other players, here's what would happen:
You'd get a bunch of trolling jackasses hanging out in front of the entrances to Outlaw's Refuges just waiting for someone with a bounty to come along so they can all gank-bang them for lulz.
The justice system, thieve's guild, and dark brotherhood content are all solo-PvE content. Just like the rest of the questing and exploration content.
Letting trolls pester the crap out solo-non-PvPers for lulz will just break that content. And, since I spent money on that content, I have zero desire to see it ruined by a bunch of *** who want to gank non-PvPers because they're too chicken-*** to go to Cyrodiil and play with the actual PvPers.
How would you spawn camp someone who had died for their crimes, thus removing the PVP flag?
How do you keep people from camping the entrances to Outlaw's Refuges? How do you keep people from following other people around waiting for a bounty to appear? How do you keep people from harassing solo-PvE players for using a PvE gameplay system?
Why do you even care? If you want to PvP so bad, why aren't you in Cyrodiil?Edited by srfrogg23 on March 4, 2017 12:04AM5 -
srfrogg23✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Bringslite wrote: »
Hi Guys,
Totally new here.
Theme Park MMOs are not based on the same level of risk vs reward that Sandbox MMOs build on. THe only real risk vs reward in a typical themepark is usually the RNG in some crafting and/or the cash store "crates" or other lotto style items. Look at this game as a whole. There is almost NO risk anywhere...
As a sandbox player(typically) I would love to see some justice that is player actionable against "LawBreakers!" It has to be implemented in a way that does not step on the very popular playstyle of the Thief, in this game though. That is a tough nut to crack...
It is an impossible nut to crack. You can't implement a PvP based element into the justice system without creating an exploitable situation.
This game doesn't work like Dark Souls, where you can only be attacked by other players on a hidden timer. It's an MMO.
Even if a single player can only killed you once, there's still an entire player base who could engage in that behavior. It would ruin the justice system.3 -
Tapio75✭✭✭✭✭
✭Hmm.. today, i stole some knife from a table near NPC, she got angry... I was arrested by guard..
What if we improve this scenario, by implementing "yield" system, where you can talk to the NPC accusing you from the crime and calculated from your actions in the world, the "Trust rate" is either high or low. If you have committed many crimes, your "Trust rate" is low while someone with no crime activity at all has extremely high "Trust rate" with small possibility to fail "Trust check" for reasons of immersion. If you allready have bounty on you at the moment of that accident, your "Trust rate" is 0 and the NPC will not even speak with you, if you have very big bounty, "Trust tolerance state" is such, that the NPC calls a guard which spawns on the spot near the incident place, depending on your bounty amount, the amount of guards is either 1 to 4 guards.
"Trust rate" can easily be implemented by observing logs and skill lines of thieves guild and DB guild lines, there could also be passives/skills to counter such low "Trust rates", Legerdamain skill line would also be in the equation.>>PC-EU Mostly PVE. Played since BETA<<0 -
XylphaeSoul ShrivenWell. Tapio, I know you are looking for some sort of better solution and I think everything in ESO has the means to be improved or constantly updated. In my meager MMO experience I just notice Devs putting something out there for people to enjoy and then try to update as players/creators see fit based on feedback. Obviously, you are giving feedback.
I like the idea of talking to the NPC that a character stole from, but as the justice system goes and I think it was the same in the single player ES games, everything is like social media or email in terms of getting the word around.
You steal the knife and guess what? EVERYONE knows! You can go to the other faction and a guard will know you stole that knife!
It would be nice to be just a criminal in certain zones or 'faction' areas instead all across tamriel. Im always picturing some victim taking pictures on 'My Tamriel Space' and posting their knife was stolen and then everyone knows in an instant! xD. This way people could be heated criminals in some areas and angels in the other. Could mix things up.. and get more complicated where you become a well known criminal across Tamriel.. instead of being a well known criminal all across Tamriel after stealing that knife; even if, it's a small bounty.
What I also think would be great .. instead of having PVP involved with the justice system. (Totally against for many reasons stated above) Too add more PVE into the system.
... How about a badass assassin NPC or bounty hunter, maybe even a group that comes after your criminal character to get the money back or maybe even kill on sight all depending the bounty. You know, just killing some mudcrabs off the shore of Auridon and suddenly.. BOOM ***! A group of bounty hunters come out of no where waxing your poor Khajit ass.. ( yeah IM stereo-typing, so what? Wanna fight about it?
) Make these NPCs tough too and a good challenge for a fight... they even talk to you first.. give you a chance to pay the debt. Or.. perhaps if you a mass murderer.. assassins come after yah.
What happens after you dies? Maybe your debt paid in full.. lose your stolen goods.. like the guards do..
What happens if you win? Still on the wanted list.. bounty goes up? But you get some decent loot from the NPCs? Find a map to a hide out or camp.. to get a chest to pick open.. master maybe?
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JKorr✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
Fear it...No, not at all.
Find its a right royal pita, yes.
I needed to get to a crafting station in IC to make a set of gear for someone. I knew I was going to get killed; IC, Cyrodiil, pvp area... So I go and end up fighting npc/daedra. Pvper waits until the fight is over, then attacks and kills me. Not hard to do, since I sheathed my weapons and stood there. Respawn, and head back to the station. Again, I have to fight npcs. Again the same pvper waits until the fight is over and attacks. Again, I don't fight back. Respawn, and head back. And again the pvper attacks after I fight with npcs. Someone said "Well they were looking for a real pvp fight." which I think is absolute BS. If the pvper wanted a real pvp fight, they would have either helped with the npc/daedra enemies, or waited until my stamina/health/magic regenerated instead of attacking instantly after I killed the npcs. The pvper finally got tired of killing someone who didn't fight back and let me get to the station on the 5th try. Fun for them? Probably. Fun for me? Not at all.
I'd much rather get killed by npcs. They don't teabag, tell me what my Mom said last night while they were banging her, or question my parentage/species/gender or sexual preference. I play this game for fun, as a hobby. Getting constantly interfered with while trying to do content for the Thieves or DB content that I paid for isn't really fun.
If the people who want to be able to open world pvp for whatever reasons ask for a separate instance or server, I'd cheerfully, happily support it. The people who want to kill other players all the time everywhere could do that without bothering anyone who wants to play pve for fun.
So, you entered a PVP zone, made a point of going through a dangerous area alone, and then engaged in a futile act of "defiance" by standing there helplessly and refusing to fight back when a player WAITS for you to finish grinding the mobs and then attacks. I guess he didn't make it easy enough for you be letting your pools regen fully? How much of gentleman did he need to be?
It wasn't fun for you, because you wouldn't engage. You knew the game, and refused to play. It isn't the fault of the other player, or the game that you can't seem grok PVP. It's you. You showed up in a PVP zone and instead of playing, you protested.
Why? Because the NPCs don't call you names. Which this guy didn't even do. All of this sounds...logical to you? It didn't occur to you to not be passive aggresive and salty and you know...fight back a bit? Because you created the suckiness yourself. You preordained that outcome, when you immolated yourself on the altar of Saltiness, instead of engaging the other players in the game. Who knows, you might have killed him and got HIS rocks.
So, maybe try Skyrim, you will never get ganked. But if you enter IC again, consider playing the game you're logged into, and you might find you do like it just a bit.
The point; you missed it.
I don't want to pvp. I see no point in it. I am not competitive and really don't give the slightest bit of a *** that you are better than me. Congratulations on being teh bestest pvper evah. Now please kill me and let me go back to the *crafting* I want to do. You know, part of the game I'm logged into?
I only go to the IC when someone in one of my guilds asks for a set of gear. I'm currently turning Master Writs over to a guildie who is going to put Attuned Crafting Stations in houses the guild can access. Someday I won't have to go to the IC to do crafting at all. If they ever put attuned stations on the Crown store, they would get my money. I'd have to make the last trips to set them up, then never again. It would be worth it.
I know when I go to the IC I'm going to die, probably more than once. Price of going to the crafting stations that don't exist anywhere else. Getting killed is more of an inconvenience and irritation than anything. It interferes with my getting the crafting done to get back to playing pve outside of the pvp area.
Yes, its really stupid on my part to keep my weapons sheathed to show other players I don't intend to fight at all. I usually try it to show I don't want to fight, and am only passing through. All those super "want a real fight" pvpers should get the clue I won't be that fight. If you want to kill me, feel free. I do not want to engage in activity I don't enjoy. I don't want ap, or telvar stones. I don't care about pvp, period. I didn't plan on even getting this game until it was made clear that pvp was not required and wasn't in every area.
Yes, pvp is part of the game I'm logged into. Part of the game that is entirely optional, and one I do not want to participate in. With the exception of the crafting stations that are locked in the pvp area, I never have to set foot there. It isn't "defiance" or "rebellion" or anything else. If someone kills me enough times, they will eventually leave me alone, and I can finish the crafting I went there for, get killed as soon as I'm done and get back to the base to leave as fast as possible.0 -
Tapio75✭✭✭✭✭
✭By the nine, this is not a thread about arguing if PVP is horrible for you or goof for you.
It is about getting the crime system more immersive and engaging, also morre rewarding by adding more serious risks, immersive consequences and immersive ways to counter the consequences. To improve the justice system to be more than a simple "looting game".
We have to understand and also accept, that by adding more risks, no matter if fully PVE, partially PVP or whatever, the rewards would also get better because risk vs gain n scenario.>>PC-EU Mostly PVE. Played since BETA<<0 -
Tapio75✭✭✭✭✭
✭@Xylphae
Hmm, i think the criminal status WAS regional in Skyrim and blivion at least, i dont remember how it was in Morrowind though.. Like if i was a criminal in Riften, i was "Upstanding" in Whiterun.
The other TES games also had a yiekld system, if guard or who ever attacked you because you accidentally hit them, you sheath your weapon and the system does some partial RNG check, maybe based on Karma or something and then the attacked accepts, or continues killing you. This is something i would really love to have in ESO as well so if i hit someone by accident while doing quests, i can try to yiekd to the attacked NPC so that i dont always have to either run or kill him/her.
I also suggested these NPC assassins/Dark boritherhood members for murderers for example, to have more serious consequences for being a murderer and the bounty hunters that come after you if you have some bounty on you. On Skyrim, i remember that i was suddenly attacked by the group of 3 godlike bounty hunters and thought "What the heck"... Later, i discovered, that these bounty hunters may come after you if you steal from someone. Both these bounty hunters and dark brotherhood assassins that came after you, had a letter in their pocket describing the mark/me and the order to kill me by some NPC in the wolrd i was stealing from.
I think, it would be also interesting if the system could "Detect" if some area becomes infested with great criminal activity and would respond by sending guards to that location to "investigate". Would force people to move and change their patterns a bit.
None of these should be taken too far though as we are still playing a game where there are many types of people but i am sure some compromise in betweeen can exist.>>PC-EU Mostly PVE. Played since BETA<<0 -
I_killed_Vivec✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭bulbousb16_ESO wrote: »
You do know the setting of this game is a three-faction war, right? And that you join a faction when you create your character? And that automatically makes you enemies of other PLAYERS, not just other NPCs?Choosing to commit a crime is a PVE activity. You do not put PVP penalties on a PVE activity.
Given this setting, it is absolutely ludicrous to defend the concept that (when engaging in factional combat) you can be attacked by enemy NPCs but not enemy players. It doesn't make sense from any standpoint - except financial.
Some people are just wired wrong and have an irrational fear of engaging other players, and their money is just as "green" as anyone else's.
ESO would be a better game if there were limited PvP in most zones by implementing a "temporary enemy" mechanic. But I will admit, it might have a slightly lower playerbase than it does now.
So you're AD and you want to defend AD characters...
And yet every day in Cyrodiil AD players will die to gankers who catch them unaware when they hand in quests.
Every day atrocities will be committed on the battlefields of Cyrodiil.
Every day your AD fellows will die fighting daedra in IC.
And yet you do nothing.
You refuse to hunt those gankers in Cyrodiil. You refuse to confront your enemies on the battlefield. You refuse to help your fellow warriors.
Because as a milk-drinker you're more interested in staying at home, away from the war, making sure that people don't pilfer from merchants or steal your women's washing...
Go to Cyrodiil if you want PvP.3 -
Kamatsu✭✭✭✭The first thing that needs to happen before ANY fixing/redoing/etc of the injustice system is ZOS needs to fix it's server's, and internet lag needs to be removed from the world.
I lol @ those who advocate 'want to steal? Then be good at it" - that type of thinking completely neglects the facts that the servers can be real PITA's at times, and lag happens.
I have gotten many a bounty on me due to this. Stealthed to loot something, tracked NPC's movements... timed the steal to when no-one is watching me, moved off just to get "Stop thief" seconds later due to lag spike which meant my stealing action only 'happened' when NPC had moved and I was spotted (to me the steal window had closed and I'd already taken 2-3 steps away when the bounty got placed). Worst case of this I got the bounty about a minute after I'd stolen the goods, moved away, stood up and walked off.... but server had issue's, got 999+ ping spike (and others in zone chat had same issue) and thus server didn't record I'd moved off & got 'spotted' and bounty placed on me.
So haw can someone "git gud" at stealing and avoid bounties when dealing with unwanted/needed/expected server lag spikes? And please don't say they don't happen... we ALL know that the server's have issue's and have lag spikes that effect some people. My internet is fine and has a decent speed, i can play other online games without having my lag/latency fluctuating as much as is does in ESO (games such as Diablo 3 (on both US & European servers), STO, Wildstar, WoW, SW:TOR (on both east & west coast US servers), Eve Online).
I'm not against working on the injustice system to make the guards work better, guard pathing to be adjusted maybe, NPC's able to summon a guard if no guard pathed nearby, etc things like that - but problem is, any solution/change/fix/etc... has to also cater to the fact the servers are blah and have issue's. And 'git gud' is not an answer... since server issue's are beyond the players ability to deal with.Edited by Kamatsu on March 5, 2017 3:42AMo_O0 -
apostate9✭✭✭✭✭"Of course there aren't any meaningful consequences for doing it. It's a video game."
So then...getting killed by a player instead of a robot doesn't really matter to you..right? Since getting "killed" by a human player isn't a meaningful consequence? And I agree, it isn't. Maybe we should stop acting like the most casual touch of player vs. player competition in a MMORPG will literally destroy lives and shatter people's self-worth forever?
Being killed every once in a while in a video game is not a problem. Spawn camping and griefing is a problem.
If Zenimax were to make it so players could kill other players, here's what would happen:
You'd get a bunch of trolling jackasses hanging out in front of the entrances to Outlaw's Refuges just waiting for someone with a bounty to come along so they can all gank-bang them for lulz.
The justice system, thieve's guild, and dark brotherhood content are all solo-PvE content. Just like the rest of the questing and exploration content.
Letting trolls pester the crap out solo-non-PvPers for lulz will just break that content. And, since I spent money on that content, I have zero desire to see it ruined by a bunch of *** who want to gank non-PvPers because they're too chicken-*** to go to Cyrodiil and play with the actual PvPers.
How would you spawn camp someone who had died for their crimes, thus removing the PVP flag?
How do you keep people from camping the entrances to Outlaw's Refuges? How do you keep people from following other people around waiting for a bounty to appear? How do you keep people from harassing solo-PvE players for using a PvE gameplay system?
Why do you even care? If you want to PvP so bad, why aren't you in Cyrodiil?
I care because player generated content makes an MMO suck less. In my opinion, ESO zones could stand to suck less. The PVE zones are a wooden, predictable log ride suitable for small children and introverted robot-slayers, and those who wanted TES VI with a chat room. I've ridden this ride 400 times already, and since I am none of the above I feel that real risk, real skill and real unpredictability in the "PVE" zones would make the game better. Bad Guy vs. Good guy group play would be amazing. You however, seem content to burn down those same helpless AI villagers for the 7,000th time and pat yourself on the back for your prowess. You go Tiger!
And I am in Cyrodiil. Or would be if the servers were up. If you want to avoid any trace of human conflict in a GAME, why aren't you playing Skyrim?
Edited by apostate9 on March 5, 2017 3:57AM0
