Justice system needs that second part which is missing.

Nestor · March 2017

Tapio75 wrote: »

Most importantly in the part where NPC calls out for a guard and nothing happens, ever. Also some added NPC bounty hunters would be immersive, you murdered enough people, someone got angry to you and hired someone to kill you or collect the value of stolen items, perphaps someone performed the dark sacrament and got a Dark Brotherhood assassin to hunt you down. Not all of these NPC bounty hunters and assassins should be trash either but something you need to really fight against.

Now that you have gotten the PvP part out of your system, your bringing up something to discuss.

I have stolen and been seen by many a home owner and just stood there waiting for my bounty to drop (it was not worth using a pardon for) and only to walk out of the house right in front of the guard and I wave at them as I walk on by. Now, of course the bounty was not in place so the guard did not have a reason to accost me.

So, we could have a hard or harder core Justice system that is Opt In. The Bounties we accrue do not diminish over time, only if we pay them off at a Fence or a Guard or use a Pardon.
The guards would not necessarily come into the house, unless the bounty was some level, but would wait to pounce on us as we leave. This would allow the RP of a Standoff. Or we could try and use the back door to get away from them. Perhaps use an indicator to let us know where the guard is, as we can't look out the windows. If the guards could chase us, we could open the dang door and get outside, but the guards could chase us outside too.

srfrogg23 · March 2017

bulbousb16_ESO wrote: »

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

Becasue you're failing to understand that when you mix PvP and PvE IN ANY WAY, it causes Griefing.

I am assuming this comment is drawn from very limited MMO experience. Many games have implemented excellent mechanics that allow PvE and PvP to overlap, and at the same time minimize griefing. Bear in mind that death in ESO is already almost totally an insignificant experience. It costs you a soul gem and a couple of seconds.

Let's take the worst-case scenario, where you perform an action (such as attacking NPCs of an opposing faction) that temporarily flags you as attackable by players. Some horrible griefer ganks you!

Such a tragedy! Players will flee the game in droves because of this life-altering detriment to their playstyle!

Or, in real life, you raise yourself (having lost your temporarily-attackable status) and you carry on.

This post shows your complete disconnect from how Griefing in any type of open-world PvP happens, and how toxic it would be in ESO.

I'm done with this thread.

You can't have a conversation or debate with someone who doesn't have the capacity to see the other side of the argument.

I do believe this summarizes your side of the discussion very well.

This game has a world-PvP zone. It's called Cyrodiil.

You can gank and be ganked by other players daily, nightly, and ever-so-rightly. And, the players who go there usually have the same interest in PvP as you do.

Why don't you go there and play the game with people who have the same interests as you?

Or is that the problem? They actually want to PvP, which means they are actually prepared for PvP, and they aren't going to be pushovers.

Tandor · March 2017

bulbousb16_ESO wrote: »

Khami wrote: »

Why should I have to PvP over PvE actions? The logic on that doesn't even compute correctly. PvE actions should never have PvP consequences. If that was part of the game, I would not have returned to it in December last year.

Wow. I am speechless. Are you serious?

If you are a member of the Aldmeri Dominion, and you are standing amongst a group of Aldmeri NPC soliders, and a Daggerfall Covenant player walks up and kills them as part of his mission, are you seriously telling me that "logic doesn't compute" that you should be able to intervene?

People who never want to participate in PvP are making too much distinction between players and NPCs. This is a role-playing game, and it shouldn't matter in the slightest whether you are attacked by a human mind or an AI.

I can't agree. While your approach might make sense from a lore point of view, it makes no sense whatsoever in a PvE-centric MMO with consensual-only PvP. For PvE actions outside the dedicated PvP zones to have PvP consequences it would have to be a FFA open world PvP game, which mercifully it is not. Were it to become so, I would be instantly gone along with probably 95% of the playerbase.

Uriel_Nocturne · March 2017

Tandor wrote: »

bulbousb16_ESO wrote: »

Khami wrote: »

Why should I have to PvP over PvE actions? The logic on that doesn't even compute correctly. PvE actions should never have PvP consequences. If that was part of the game, I would not have returned to it in December last year.

Wow. I am speechless. Are you serious?

If you are a member of the Aldmeri Dominion, and you are standing amongst a group of Aldmeri NPC soliders, and a Daggerfall Covenant player walks up and kills them as part of his mission, are you seriously telling me that "logic doesn't compute" that you should be able to intervene?

People who never want to participate in PvP are making too much distinction between players and NPCs. This is a role-playing game, and it shouldn't matter in the slightest whether you are attacked by a human mind or an AI.

I can't agree. While your approach might make sense from a lore point of view, it makes no sense whatsoever in a PvE-centric MMO with consensual-only PvP. For PvE actions outside the dedicated PvP zones to have PvP consequences it would have to be a FFA open world PvP game, which mercifully it is not. Were it to become so, I would be instantly gone along with probably 95% of the playerbase.

Yep, pretty much.

Tapio75 · March 2017

@Nestor

Yeah, that could very well work. I think the houses should be improved as well along with this to allow use of a window for example. The optional part would make it possible for players who want more immersion to turn it on.. Though it would be even nicer, if they would implement the questionaire system to beginning of gameplay, that would sent you to instances with similar minded people, then everyone would have same rules and play with same kind of people.

The most thing i miss about the questionaire not being implemented is, that i cant opt to be in instances with people who care for more immersion and loreplay.

Wrathmane · March 2017

By adding the PVP portion of the justice system it should change the way players think about committing crimes. If your careful and stealthy (like a thief or assassin should be) then you can complete most if not all of the Thieves guild and Dark Brotherhood content with minimal or no bounty added to you. I completed the Litany of Blood Achievement without getting a single bounty placed on me (as an assassin should). Therefore ask me would I care if there is a PVP element to the justice system.... answer: No I had no bounty on me, therefore no bounty hunter coming after me. If I screwed up and got a bounty (and didn't have an edict to immediately remove it, which I have an obcene amount of) and a PC bounty hunter came caught me and took me out (and was able to beat me in a duel) then good he deserves to get my ill gotten gains, because I screwed up and got a bounty. I was a bad thief/assassin, and with my death and respawn my bounty is removed (how can he troll me) and perhaps I will think twice about breaking the law again (doubtful though.)

What annoys me is people jumping around in broad daylight slaughtering people left and right running from crate to barrel to chest in front of everyone, accumulating a huge bounty without a care in the world and why? There are no real consequences for doing it.

If your a smart (good) thief/assassin your not getting a bounty.

srfrogg23 · March 2017

Wrathmane wrote: »

By adding the PVP portion of the justice system it should change the way players think about committing crimes. If your careful and stealthy (like a thief or assassin should be) then you can complete most if not all of the Thieves guild and Dark Brotherhood content with minimal or no bounty added to you. I completed the Litany of Blood Achievement without getting a single bounty placed on me (as an assassin should). Therefore ask me would I care if there is a PVP element to the justice system.... answer: No I had no bounty on me, therefore no bounty hunter coming after me. If I screwed up and got a bounty (and didn't have an edict to immediately remove it, which I have an obcene amount of) and a PC bounty hunter came caught me and took me out (and was able to beat me in a duel) then good he deserves to get my ill gotten gains, because I screwed up and got a bounty. I was a bad thief/assassin, and with my death and respawn my bounty is removed (how can he troll me) and perhaps I will think twice about breaking the law again (doubtful though.)

What annoys me is people jumping around in broad daylight slaughtering people left and right running from crate to barrel to chest in front of everyone, accumulating a huge bounty without a care in the world and why? There are no real consequences for doing it.

If your a smart (good) thief/assassin your not getting a bounty.

I'm guessing the Who's down in Whoville, with their singing and their roast beast, aren't your favorite people either.

Of course there aren't any meaningful consequences for doing it. It's a video game. It's not really a crime to steal fictional items from fictional people.

The justice system aspect of the game, as implemented in the PvE zones is meant to be a solo activity, and for the gameplay of individuals interested in the solo-PvE aspect of the game, it needs to remain that way.

Enforcing punishment for fake crimes is not the role of players. They'll just grief people, they won't give a crap about the "criminal activity".

Cyrodiil is a massive PvP zone designed to allow players to engage in both large and small PvP based gameplay styles. Go there. It exists for you.

Tapio75 · March 2017

@srfrogg23
You see Tamriel from a whole wrong point of wiev, your character is the one doing stuff in Tamriel and in Tamriel, there are laws. If these laws are broken, there should be consequences. If you play the game without regard to or understanding regarding the RP part of MMORPG, then you should first learn to understand how some other people see the gameworld as a character, not as person playing the game, if you are not willing to understand the RP part, well, then its pointless to argue as you cant see why Tamriel is a place where people live and do their daily activities.

@Wrathmane

This is what i mean by immersive crime in the Tamriel, consequences that matter so that people would not consider stealing and pickpocketing as simple looting system but as an activity that is punishable by laws of Tamriel.

srfrogg23 · March 2017

Tapio75 wrote: »

@srfrogg23
You see Tamriel from a whole wrong point of wiev, your character is the one doing stuff in Tamriel and in Tamriel, there are laws. If these laws are broken, there should be consequences. If you play the game without regard to or understanding regarding the RP part of MMORPG, then you should first learn to understand how some other people see the gameworld as a character, not as person playing the game, if you are not willing to understand the RP part, well, then its pointless to argue as you cant see why Tamriel is a place where people live and do their daily activities.

@Wrathmane

This is what i mean by immersive crime in the Tamriel, consequences that matter so that people would not consider stealing and pickpocketing as simple looting system but as an activity that is punishable by laws of Tamriel.

There are consequences, they're just not up to your standards.

And, maybe you're right, I'm not an RPer, so I won't advocate for crappy gameplay mechanics that will ruin other people's gaming experiences.

Everything you're suggesting just creates exploitable situations and will ruin an important aspect of the solo-PvE experience for A LOT of people.

Your ideas are not only bad, they're selfish and you don't understand the ramifications of them.

bulbousb16_ESO · March 2017

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

You say this, but completely ignore the other posts and comments I've made where I've admitted that I've played plenty of Open World PvP MMO's. It's horrible in most every one of them, and they don't host NEAR the populations of PvE MMO's.

Welcome back to the discussion! I hope your brief respite was refreshing.

I have to ask something in all sincerity, because I think we're having a fundamental miscommunication. What are defining as "Open World PvP"? Is this like Cyrodiil, EVE Online or like Ultima Online used to be? Where players can be attacked by other players at any time? Because no one is advocating that, but that seems to be what you are railing against.

Nothing like mis-characterizing the argument of the other side and then shooting it down.

Wrathmane · March 2017

srfrogg23 wrote: »

And, maybe you're right, I'm not an RPer, so I won't advocate for crappy gameplay mechanics that will ruin other people's gaming experiences.

Everything you're suggesting just creates exploitable situations and will ruin an important aspect of the solo-PvE experience for A LOT of people.

Your ideas are not only bad, they're selfish and you don't understand the ramifications of them.

I am also not an RPer and this has absolutely nothing to do with RP. You claim that Thieves guild and then DB is solo PVE content, but what is the intent of the DLC is it meant to be played a certain way? I'm not sure but with the titles "Thieves guild" I would think that I'm supposed to be a thief, or and Asassin for the DB. They introduced the Justice system with these DLC patches, I guess the question becomes is there a right way or a wrong way to play this content? and should there be a punishment for playing it wrong. When you are in a 4 man PVE dungeon or trial, there is a right way to play it and if you don't play it right you wipe and don't get to complete the content and get the rewards. The Thieves guild/DB also has a right way of completing the content, but it isn't the same as a standard Dungeon or trial : remain stealthy accomplish objectives (eliminate target/steal object) and escape without being noticed and accumulating a bounty. There are even achievement for completing missions without being detected. Unlike other PVE content if you accomplish this the wrong way and accumulate a huge bounty there are absolutely no consequences in the sense that you still get rewarded and big deal you have a huge bounty, which can be dealt with in may ways.

Will it make the game open world PVP... NO, you will opt into the pvp in pve zones (similar to your decsion to opt into deuling in pve zones) by making the conscience decision to play the DB/TG content wrong and risk the consequences of those decisions. As it stands right now there are absolutely no consequences for playing wrong and that's why we have people going on murdering sprees or running from crate to box to loot them without a care in the world.

Kodrac · March 2017

Nestor wrote: »

Tapio75 wrote: »

Most importantly in the part where NPC calls out for a guard and nothing happens, ever. Also some added NPC bounty hunters would be immersive, you murdered enough people, someone got angry to you and hired someone to kill you or collect the value of stolen items, perphaps someone performed the dark sacrament and got a Dark Brotherhood assassin to hunt you down. Not all of these NPC bounty hunters and assassins should be trash either but something you need to really fight against.

Now that you have gotten the PvP part out of your system, your bringing up something to discuss.

I have stolen and been see by many a home owner and just stood there waiting for my bounty to drop (it was not worth using a pardon for) and only to walk out of the house right in front of the guard and I wave at them as I walk on by. Now, of course the bounty was no in place so the guard did not have a reason to accost me.

So, we could have a hard or harder core Justice system that is Opt In. The Bounties we accrue do not diminish over time, only if we pay them off at a Fence or a Guard or use a Pardon.
The guards would not necessarily come into the house, unless the bounty was some level, but would wait to pounce on us as we leave. This would allow the RP of a Standoff. Or we could try and use the back door to get away from them. Perhaps use an indicator to let us know where the guard is, as we can't look out the windows. If the guards could chase us, we could open the dang door and get outside, but the guards could chase us outside too.

This is what Ive been saying, except maybe without as good of a suggestion. They could expand on the justice system without a pvp element, and make it better. Make the crime a crime, not just an annoying mechanic. I mean, hate when I want to talk to an NPC and I accidentally steal an apple and now I'm at the top of the FBI's most wanted list.

Tandor · March 2017

Wrathmane wrote: »

srfrogg23 wrote: »

And, maybe you're right, I'm not an RPer, so I won't advocate for crappy gameplay mechanics that will ruin other people's gaming experiences.

Everything you're suggesting just creates exploitable situations and will ruin an important aspect of the solo-PvE experience for A LOT of people.

Your ideas are not only bad, they're selfish and you don't understand the ramifications of them.

I am also not an RPer and this has absolutely nothing to do with RP. You claim that Thieves guild and then DB is solo PVE content, but what is the intent of the DLC is it meant to be played a certain way? I'm not sure but with the titles "Thieves guild" I would think that I'm supposed to be a thief, or and Asassin for the DB. They introduced the Justice system with these DLC patches, I guess the question becomes is there a right way or a wrong way to play this content? and should there be a punishment for playing it wrong. When you are in a 4 man PVE dungeon or trial, there is a right way to play it and if you don't play it right you wipe and don't get to complete the content and get the rewards. The Thieves guild/DB also has a right way of completing the content, but it isn't the same as a standard Dungeon or trial : remain stealthy accomplish objectives (eliminate target/steal object) and escape without being noticed and accumulating a bounty. There are even achievement for completing missions without being detected. Unlike other PVE content if you accomplish this the wrong way and accumulate a huge bounty there are absolutely no consequences in the sense that you still get rewarded and big deal you have a huge bounty, which can be dealt with in may ways.

Will it make the game open world PVP... NO, you will opt into the pvp in pve zones (similar to your decsion to opt into deuling in pve zones) by making the conscience decision to play the DB/TG content wrong and risk the consequences of those decisions. As it stands right now there are absolutely no consequences for playing wrong and that's why we have people going on murdering sprees or running from crate to box to loot them without a care in the world.

It would introduce an element of open world PvP, in that it would enable PvP action in the open world. Making it the penalty for PvE actions is entirely unacceptable, and arguing that it's only going to happen if the PvE is "played wrong" is equally unacceptable.

If you're not simply interested in ganking unwilling PvP participants for your jollies but are actually looking for some decent PvP action between criminals and enforcers of equal willingness and ability then why not simply follow the dueling practice of allowing everyone to play the way they want to and have an unconditional opt-out mechanism for this aspect of PvP in the game's settings? Why insist on applying PvP consequences to PvE actions and adopt the attitude of "play the PvE right or not at all if you want to avoid PvP"? Why not promote instead the strengthening of the PvE risks and penalties for "playing the PvE content wrong"? Or would you be happy with having PvE penalties applied to you every time you die in Cyrodiil because you "play the PvP wrong"?

apostate9 · March 2017

bulbousb16_ESO wrote: »

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

Becasue you're failing to understand that when you mix PvP and PvE IN ANY WAY, it causes Griefing.

I am assuming this comment is drawn from very limited MMO experience. Many games have implemented excellent mechanics that allow PvE and PvP to overlap, and at the same time minimize griefing. Bear in mind that death in ESO is already almost totally an insignificant experience. It costs you a soul gem and a couple of seconds.

Let's take the worst-case scenario, where you perform an action (such as attacking NPCs of an opposing faction) that temporarily flags you as attackable by players. Some horrible griefer ganks you!

Such a tragedy! Players will flee the game in droves because of this life-altering detriment to their playstyle!

Or, in real life, you raise yourself (having lost your temporarily-attackable status) and you carry on.

This post shows your complete disconnect from how Griefing in any type of open-world PvP happens, and how toxic it would be in ESO.

I'm done with this thread.

You can't have a conversation or debate with someone who doesn't have the capacity to see the other side of the argument.

I do believe this summarizes your side of the discussion very well.

QFT.

apostate9 · March 2017

"Of course there aren't any meaningful consequences for doing it. It's a video game."

So then...getting killed by a player instead of a robot doesn't really matter to you..right? Since getting "killed" by a human player isn't a meaningful consequence? And I agree, it isn't. Maybe we should stop acting like the most casual touch of player vs. player competition in a MMORPG will literally destroy lives and shatter people's self-worth forever?

Micah_Bayer · March 2017

Remag_Div wrote: »

It would be cool but it could get too messy too fast combining PvE and PvP.

Too many ways to exploit it, too.

How could you exploit it if it has been implemented correctly?

Micah_Bayer · March 2017

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

Tapio75 wrote: »

The originally two part update what was justice system back at the day, needs that second part as well.

We need a way to call a guard, to attack a murderer, defend citizens and animals, catch thieves and so forth.

Especially those murderers need some killing imlemented on them.

EDIT: I would like to point out, that i as well commit crimes on certain characters, i do have brotherhood character and a thief character. Its just somewhat boring to be a murderer who seems to be impurvious to non existant justice in Tamriel, hear NPC's call out for guards that never show up. I like the criminal play as well as being goodie two shoes but the criminal world in ESO is basically without consequences even when you get caught or get big bounties. This needs to change so that the system feels like something realistic, not something thats just a grinding tool.

No, the game doesn't need this at all.

In any way.

This is just a method for Players to grief other Players for playing the game. It affects you none to have someone in stealth looting a place of everything that can be stolen. If Players go on a killing spree in a town/area, it affects you none since no Quest-givers or Merchants can be killed/assassinated. Just let those people playing criminals, be criminals. It affects you in no way whatsoever, and adding in a "feature" like you're suggesting would only be rampantly abused, and used to prevent people from playing how they want.

Your suggestion needs to stay as far away from ESO as is possible.

No. Thank. You.

You're afraid and like the man upstairs once said (Will Smith) Fear is a choice, fear does not exist, fear is something you make up in your head to reach possibilities that may not even exist or come true. If pvp was put in correctly, you could opt out and in. It is your choice. Don't be so hard pressed to dismiss pvp, just because you don't want it and because you hate it, makes you inclined to already dismiss other's perspectives. Don't do that.

Micah_Bayer · March 2017

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Tapio75 wrote: »

We need a way to call a guard, to attack a murderer, defend citizens and animals, catch thieves and so forth.

I hope you do realize that it will only cause that good steal-able spots will be ruined by gankers in PvE who will just camp there only to spam more guards ? It will be worse than throwing mud-balls at people.

The NPC murdering is only because you can steal 3 items from them. If they are killed/murdered they re-spawn with full inventory again. And NPCs Usually drop more expensive to fence stuff than you can find in chest/containers. If you max out certain passives (Legerdemain Skills & Thieves Guild Skills) you can earn 10K - 15K per day just from fencing stuff. And where does this money goes ? Yup you guessed it - to the guild traders.
So if you will take away the ability to earn that gold from most of the players - the traders guild will be the ones who will suffer the most.

So you get free gold without a risk. You sir are a casual. Fight for that 15k!

Tandor · March 2017

Micah_Bayer wrote: »

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

Tapio75 wrote: »

The originally two part update what was justice system back at the day, needs that second part as well.

We need a way to call a guard, to attack a murderer, defend citizens and animals, catch thieves and so forth.

Especially those murderers need some killing imlemented on them.

EDIT: I would like to point out, that i as well commit crimes on certain characters, i do have brotherhood character and a thief character. Its just somewhat boring to be a murderer who seems to be impurvious to non existant justice in Tamriel, hear NPC's call out for guards that never show up. I like the criminal play as well as being goodie two shoes but the criminal world in ESO is basically without consequences even when you get caught or get big bounties. This needs to change so that the system feels like something realistic, not something thats just a grinding tool.

No, the game doesn't need this at all.

In any way.

This is just a method for Players to grief other Players for playing the game. It affects you none to have someone in stealth looting a place of everything that can be stolen. If Players go on a killing spree in a town/area, it affects you none since no Quest-givers or Merchants can be killed/assassinated. Just let those people playing criminals, be criminals. It affects you in no way whatsoever, and adding in a "feature" like you're suggesting would only be rampantly abused, and used to prevent people from playing how they want.

Your suggestion needs to stay as far away from ESO as is possible.

No. Thank. You.

You're afraid and like the man upstairs once said (Will Smith) Fear is a choice, fear does not exist, fear is something you make up in your head to reach possibilities that may not even exist or come true. If pvp was put in correctly, you could opt out and in. It is your choice. Don't be so hard pressed to dismiss pvp, just because you don't want it and because you hate it, makes you inclined to already dismiss other's perspectives. Don't do that.

Why would anyone think that the reason some people don't want PvP is because they fear it? That's a rather silly attitude, as silly as if I were to suggest that the reason why some PvPers avoid PvE questing and just grind away in a corner is not because they dislike quests but because they fear them (or the NPCs who give them). Pure nonsense, and rather insulting. The reason some people don't want PvP in the Justice System is either because they don't enjoy PvP (very different from fearing it) or because they do enjoy PvP but don't want it interfering with their PvE.

As for opting out, it depends how it's done. If your idea of opting out is to toggle a switch in the game settings so that for you the Justice System is fully doable as PvE content without PvP repercussions then fine, but if your idea of opting out is that you can either do the PvE content "right" or not at all and thereby avoid PvP repercussions then that's simply unacceptable to those who want to participate fully in the PvE content but without interference from other players in the form of PvP.

I also think that those who seek to impose their playstyle on those who choose a different playstyle aren't best placed to advise people not to dismiss others' perspectives!

apostate9 · March 2017

Tandor wrote: »

Why would anyone think that the reason some people don't want PvP is because they fear it?

It looks pretty obvious, really.

Betheny · March 2017

apostate9 wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

Why would anyone think that the reason some people don't want PvP is because they fear it?

It looks pretty obvious, really.

Maybe if you have a tendency to project your own feelings onto others.

You don't like things because you're afraid to do those things, so you think others must be like you, this is a simple world view.

apostate9 · March 2017

Betheny wrote: »

apostate9 wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

Why would anyone think that the reason some people don't want PvP is because they fear it?

It looks pretty obvious, really.

Maybe if you have a tendency to project your own feelings onto others.

You don't like things because you're afraid to do those things, so you think others must be like you, this is a simple world view.

Funny thing is, you're the one projecting here. :-)

I'm just pointing out the obvious subtext of this whole thread: a buncha carebears quaking at the possibility that a person might take some enjoyment from killing their pixel-people, when those same players kill and get killed by robots constantly and they don't seem to mind. It sounds like a form of social anxiety or something. No factual explanation is forthcoming of just how PVPing people who are already KOS to the guards for mass murdering robots and taking their free stuff would ruin ESO.

But hey, I get it. Different strokes for different folks. Some people like to engage in massively multiplayer games so they can pretend they're alone with the robots. I'd play Skyrim then, lot's and lots of villagers to murder and rob, and not another player sight.

But w/e.

Jeremy · March 2017

Tapio75 wrote: »

The originally two part update what was justice system back at the day, needs that second part as well.

We need a way to call a guard, to attack a murderer, defend citizens and animals, catch thieves and so forth.

Especially those murderers need some killing imlemented on them.

EDIT: I would like to point out, that i as well commit crimes on certain characters, i do have brotherhood character and a thief character. Its just somewhat boring to be a murderer who seems to be impurvious to non existant justice in Tamriel, hear NPC's call out for guards that never show up. I like the criminal play as well as being goodie two shoes but the criminal world in ESO is basically without consequences even when you get caught or get big bounties. This needs to change so that the system feels like something realistic, not something thats just a grinding tool.

I don't understand why so many ESO players seem to dismiss having a bounty on your head as if it is no consequence at all. This player finds bounties on my head to be a major pain in the butt.

Betheny · March 2017

apostate9 wrote: »

Betheny wrote: »

apostate9 wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

Why would anyone think that the reason some people don't want PvP is because they fear it?

It looks pretty obvious, really.

Maybe if you have a tendency to project your own feelings onto others.

You don't like things because you're afraid to do those things, so you think others must be like you, this is a simple world view.

Funny thing is, you're the one projecting here. :-)

No, I'm not. I'm offering an explanation of the only possible reason you could "assume something is obvious" about another person's reasons for doing something.

Can only be projecting.

Betheny · March 2017

Tell us where the Big World hurt you, and why that makes you want to beat up other peoples' pixels

Wrathmane · March 2017

apostate9 wrote: »

"Of course there aren't any meaningful consequences for doing it. It's a video game."

So then...getting killed by a player instead of a robot doesn't really matter to you..right? Since getting "killed" by a human player isn't a meaningful consequence? And I agree, it isn't. Maybe we should stop acting like the most casual touch of player vs. player competition in a MMORPG will literally destroy lives and shatter people's self-worth forever?

This is what I was alluding to, albeit I was trying to be more delicate..... Also, I didn't mean to imply that the moment you commit a crime you are instantly attackable by every PC in the immediate area..... they would need to set up some kind of bounty quest that a PC can take which would trigger the criminal PC to become attackable by only the person(s) carrying the bounty quest and make some form of indicator to the criminal that there is a bounty hunter tracking them. They would have to change the stealth in PVE area because the criminal stealth would have to be active from other PC (like in Cyrodill) or it wouldn't be fair. Also, if your carrying a bounty of 150 gp why would any PC bounty hunter bother even accepting the quest to hunt you down. It isn't worth your time as a bounty hunter (besides as a criminal just go pay off your bounty to a guard or fence and be done with it). Now if you are a criminal who has spent a couple of hours killing every NPC in sight and stealing from every crate in Deshaan and have accumulated a bounty of 100,000 gp, you've piqued my interest. I accept the bounty/ you are warned that a someone has accepted your bounty and let the chase begin. The outcome can go both ways... I find and attack and defeat the criminal gaining all the ill gotten goods on the criminal and the bounty, and the criminal's bounty is cleared (just like if a guard takes you out)..... I find and attack the criminal and lose the quest is wiped from my journal (I'm a bad bounty hunter) and perhaps some other form or reward is given to the criminal.... or the other option... the criminal takes him/her-self to hunt down and eliminate the bounty hunter, for some form of reward. I would also propose that the outlaw dens be restricted to bounty hunters.... have the NPC's in there become like the guards to bounty hunters giving the criminal a safe space (and a place to pay off their bounty). The advantage is with the criminal..... especially if they can stealth... they would have to implement some kind of tracking skill line to allow the bounty hunter the ability to even find the criminal... or indicate a large area of the map in which the criminal is hiding. I think it could be fun and I wonder how would it be exploited?

Betheny · March 2017

Oh and nope this will never happen for so many reasons, so might as well start posting LOLcats in this thread and be done with it.

Wrathmane · March 2017

Also, How does the above make ESO open world PVP? Perhaps my idea of what open world PVP is..... please correct me if I'm wrongbut Open world PVP is where any PC may attack any other PC at any time... like in Cyrodill. How does implementing the PVP part of the justice system make it open world? how does it make it any different from the dueling system that exists now? You do have the choice of taking part in the PVP portion of the justice system. As a bounty hunter by accepting a quest to hunt down a criminal or a a criminal by choosing to commit a crime and accumulating a bounty. How is there no choice there?

apostate9 · March 2017

Betheny wrote: »

apostate9 wrote: »

Betheny wrote: »

apostate9 wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

Why would anyone think that the reason some people don't want PvP is because they fear it?

It looks pretty obvious, really.

Maybe if you have a tendency to project your own feelings onto others.

You don't like things because you're afraid to do those things, so you think others must be like you, this is a simple world view.

Funny thing is, you're the one projecting here. :-)

No, I'm not. I'm offering an explanation of the only possible reason you could "assume something is obvious" about another person's reasons for doing something.

Can only be projecting.

....he projected.

JKorr · March 2017

apostate9 wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

Why would anyone think that the reason some people don't want PvP is because they fear it?

It looks pretty obvious, really.

Fear it...No, not at all.

Find its a right royal pita, yes.

I needed to get to a crafting station in IC to make a set of gear for someone. I knew I was going to get killed; IC, Cyrodiil, pvp area... So I go and end up fighting npc/daedra. Pvper waits until the fight is over, then attacks and kills me. Not hard to do, since I sheathed my weapons and stood there. Respawn, and head back to the station. Again, I have to fight npcs. Again the same pvper waits until the fight is over and attacks. Again, I don't fight back. Respawn, and head back. And again the pvper attacks after I fight with npcs. Someone said "Well they were looking for a real pvp fight." which I think is absolute BS. If the pvper wanted a real pvp fight, they would have either helped with the npc/daedra enemies, or waited until my stamina/health/magic regenerated instead of attacking instantly after I killed the npcs. The pvper finally got tired of killing someone who didn't fight back and let me get to the station on the 5th try. Fun for them? Probably. Fun for me? Not at all.

I'd much rather get killed by npcs. They don't teabag, tell me what my Mom said last night while they were banging her, or question my parentage/species/gender or sexual preference. I play this game for fun, as a hobby. Getting constantly interfered with while trying to do content for the Thieves or DB content that I paid for isn't really fun.

If the people who want to be able to open world pvp for whatever reasons ask for a separate instance or server, I'd cheerfully, happily support it. The people who want to kill other players all the time everywhere could do that without bothering anyone who wants to play pve for fun.