The lack of actual skill of some people never fails to amuse me

SquareSausage · March 2017

Going into random dungeons more often than not you get grouped with 'crap' players, now people here go on about teaching those of less skill, well lets be honest, most times ppl do try but get no response or the player continues to keep doing what he's doing as thats how 'he/she likes to play, and no-one is gonna tell him/her how to play'. All you can do is hope its not a mechanics heavy dungeon and power through or leave. i generally dont vote kick, as who am i to get in the way of someone else.

daedalusAI · March 2017

BlackSparrow wrote: »

You lost me at this part:

daedalusAI wrote: »

Once I saw that I refused to heal

As a long-time healer in multiple MMOs, I don't care how bad the group is. Unless the tank is utterly failing at taunting and therefore sending all the bosses your way, there is no excuse for withholding the heals the rest of the team needs to succeed. You're essentially holding their run hostage at that point, just so you can stand on your soapbox about complex rotations.

And you do know that not a lot of players try group content until endgame, right? For exactly this reason: because high CP players are hyper critical about low and no CP players? No matter their levels, these people could very well have been on one of their first dungeon runs, and so were still using solo strategies in group play... which, for some builds, does mean spamming the same one or two buttons.

Next time, teach instead of telling. Say "Hey, guys, I notice your damage output is pretty low. Mind if we pause for a sec while I give you a few pointers?" And if they say no, just finish the run and then go your separate ways. You catch a lot more flies with honey than vinegar.

Then we have different mind sets in that regard which is totally fine.
I take a game like dota2 to better explain my issue with your point of view: dota2 offers various games modes - especially bot games - to learn the basics of the game and the basics of hero abilities.
Now you have player X who skips everything of that thinking he is too good for that or doesn't need to actually learn something and he joins a normal game vs. actual players and fails.
You would carry this player X but I wouldn't because he had plenty of opportunities to learn the basics but he refused to do so.

As I said earlier: even using 1 or 2 aoe abilities during a normal dungeon run would show me that you actually did invest a little time thinking about what you can/should do in such a group activity.
If you do that I do my best to carry you - but if you don't even invest something so small I straight up refuse to do anything.

Well this isn't FF14 with an actual mentoring system: if you do join a dungeon people are expecting that you know what you are supposed to do to some degree. It's called dungeon after all - and not "learning how to dungeon" or something.

Balamoor · March 2017

I'm like this.

If it's a normal dungeon, I will usually carry and maybe offer advice if the player wants it.

If it's a difficult Dungeon I run it with my guild.

It's simple effective, and I don't have to cry about what other people do or do not know.

daedalusAI · March 2017

Rouven wrote: »

@daedalusAI

Consider communication a set of skills. Now use more than two of those and you might be able to reach players who aren't skilled in the game (for whatever reason) and teach them.

I confess, I'm trying to be clever here.
Depending how you read this you will find it either funny, sarcastic or perhaps condescending. I have to rely on the use of a smiley because you can't see my face or hear the tone of my voice to try and convey how I intend it to come across ...:

Hint - funny.

I must confess I had a good laugh.

Waffennacht · March 2017

All I care about is getting it done, if that means I carry 3 players then so be it!

Quite frankly, the only reason I wouldn't solo a dungeon is when mechanics won't let me, at which point I will offer to carry anybody as long as they do the mechanic.

The only time I feel players have room to grieve is in Trials (were you actually can't just carry peeps)

ThePaleItalian · March 2017

daedalusAI wrote: »

ThePaleItalian wrote: »

daedalusAI wrote: »

ThePaleItalian wrote: »

I am so glad that you knew everything about the game when you first played and never needed help or advise or ever checked online to help your gameplay out..... please teach us all.

Plus I am sure your observations were so nice an eloguent to help possible new players to the game that might not understand the game play.

But thank you o great one for posting this today!

My policy is to first learn the basics before I join group activity - but I guess that's just me.
If people offer advice I will take it - or do you see any merit when the DK above attacks me personally without actually evaluating what I said?

A lvl 46 DK is hardly a new player if you consider you unlock your 2nd weapon bar at lvl 15.
And if you honestly are a new player opting to play dungeons where you need a basic understanding of the game isn't a logical choice.

Interesting that your post only serves to attack me without even considering if a lvl 46 should know more than to only use 2 abilities out of a maximum of 12.

I did take that into consideration, I understand what you mean.

The issue I have and you obviously missed... why do you feel the need to share it? Your title makes you come right out like a pompous A$$. Then your thread just confirmed my thought on you.

A forum is a place to share opinions.
If you don't agree with my opinion that's totally fine and if you think am an ass that's fine too.

The more interesting question is why are you so against me posting something like this?
Is it that the lack of a proper tutorial is indeed an issue, or that people can queue right at lvl 15 for random dungeons without some sort of test if they even know the basics.

Because you come on here to put down other players. Nothing in your title, or OP comes across as a concerned player or someone looking to help out newer players.

I do agree that should be a training line of quests, just like how they used one in PvP for siege. But how do you know those players honestly didn't know how to do a rotation? Or never had anyone show them?

But instead of being a better part of the community or extending a helping hand, you stopped healing and then you blast them on a forum post... Please tell me you no know understand why I called you out. If not, then I really hope you never group with anyone that treats you that way or we will see another post from you crying about how you got kicked...

ZiRM · March 2017

What's your in game nickname so I can make sure I will never play with you OP.

daedalusAI · March 2017

ThePaleItalian wrote: »

daedalusAI wrote: »

ThePaleItalian wrote: »

daedalusAI wrote: »

ThePaleItalian wrote: »

I am so glad that you knew everything about the game when you first played and never needed help or advise or ever checked online to help your gameplay out..... please teach us all.

Plus I am sure your observations were so nice an eloguent to help possible new players to the game that might not understand the game play.

But thank you o great one for posting this today!

My policy is to first learn the basics before I join group activity - but I guess that's just me.
If people offer advice I will take it - or do you see any merit when the DK above attacks me personally without actually evaluating what I said?

A lvl 46 DK is hardly a new player if you consider you unlock your 2nd weapon bar at lvl 15.
And if you honestly are a new player opting to play dungeons where you need a basic understanding of the game isn't a logical choice.

Interesting that your post only serves to attack me without even considering if a lvl 46 should know more than to only use 2 abilities out of a maximum of 12.

I did take that into consideration, I understand what you mean.

The issue I have and you obviously missed... why do you feel the need to share it? Your title makes you come right out like a pompous A$$. Then your thread just confirmed my thought on you.

A forum is a place to share opinions.
If you don't agree with my opinion that's totally fine and if you think am an ass that's fine too.

The more interesting question is why are you so against me posting something like this?
Is it that the lack of a proper tutorial is indeed an issue, or that people can queue right at lvl 15 for random dungeons without some sort of test if they even know the basics.

Because you come on here to put down other players. Nothing in your title, or OP comes across as a concerned player or someone looking to help out newer players.

I do agree that should be a training line of quests, just like how they used one in PvP for siege. But how do you know those players honestly didn't know how to do a rotation? Or never had anyone show them?

But instead of being a better part of the community or extending a helping hand, you stopped healing and then you blast them on a forum post... Please tell me you no know understand why I called you out. If not, then I really hope you never group with anyone that treats you that way or we will see another post from you crying about how you got kicked...

Hard to be concerned when I've acted as a commentator who describes what he sees and I got total silence and an attack on my person as response.

I will help if people are actually willing to accept help - which often starts with the realization that something you've been doing is more of less objectively bad. Without that realization no one can help you.

Worry not: I'll blast myself when I fail to pull of a certain rotation, stand in red, didn't dodge etc. - it's called learning and improving.

daedalusAI · March 2017

ZiRM wrote: »

What's your in game nickname so I can make sure I will never play with you OP.

Mainly on my templar Xiathia.
Are so so afraid that someone might actually have a close look at how you play and even go so far as to speak his mind?

JamieAubrey · March 2017

Turelus wrote: »

JamieAubrey wrote: »

Where do you see how much enlightenment you have

@JamieAubrey Hover over the XP bar in the character sheet for PC and it will tell you. Not sure for console.

Also going on faith this isn't trolling OP and a serious question, I can never tell with these forums.

I didn't know you could see how much you get, I thought it was just for a random amount of time

CountEdmondDantes · March 2017

Thank you for posting this.

As a new player to the game, who enjoys having fun and not having people scream at him, I think you've just convinced me that grouping up for dungeons is not for me.

Thanks again.

daedalusAI · March 2017

Waffennacht wrote: »

All I care about is getting it done, if that means I carry 3 players then so be it!

Quite frankly, the only reason I wouldn't solo a dungeon is when mechanics won't let me, at which point I will offer to carry anybody as long as they do the mechanic.

The only time I feel players have room to grieve is in Trials (were you actually can't just carry peeps)

JamieAubrey wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

JamieAubrey wrote: »

Where do you see how much enlightenment you have

@JamieAubrey Hover over the XP bar in the character sheet for PC and it will tell you. Not sure for console.

Also going on faith this isn't trolling OP and a serious question, I can never tell with these forums.

I didn't know you could see how much you get, I thought it was just for a random amount of time

I'm not too sure about the time frame - but you should accumulate 400k about every 18-24h.

[Deleted User] · March 2017

The user and all related content has been deleted.

Blackleopardex · March 2017

If your good at the game and not lazy or a d**k you can drag most people through Wayrest II

If you don't want these runs try to avoid going random, find people that you like to run with.

However I see a problem with world content(quest and mobs in general) being waaaaaaaaaaaay to easy and this leads to a problem when jumping from that and into a vet dungeon. If the content in the open world was more difficult it would make people better prepared for the vet dungeons(the difference now even with a easy vet dungeon is just massive). Meaning if you actually needed to block/move/heal/damage when killing mobs in general out in the open.

RinaldoGandolphi · March 2017

Folks need to stop equating skill to a game with 10 active skills and two ultimates where gear and CP carry.

Folks also need to show a little bit of respect to their fellow players and foster an environment of learning and success, not salt, negativity, and toxicity.

Just be kind to one another. You have no idea what road the person on the other side of the keyboard has been on. Make it a point to make them smile and be positive not spewing hate and criticism.

daedalusAI · March 2017

CountEdmondDantes wrote: »

Thank you for posting this.

As a new player to the game, who enjoys having fun and not having people scream at him, I think you've just convinced me that grouping up for dungeons is not for me.

Thanks again.

Why not?
Do you have the courage to admit being new to a certain dungeon so that others have the chance to help you - or are you staying silent hoping you being new will go unnoticed?

Will you get angry when people question your actions - or do you take that an opportunity to get information for improving your abilities?

And if you've played other games before you already know that aoe abilities are needed to quickly bring down groups of enemies.
Everything else can be learned along the way.

Koensol · March 2017

OP, I too get frustrated by bad players in my group. But in the end, you have to realize that they play the game to have fun as well. In their own way. They payed money for it, just like you.

Not too long ago, I was in a pretty good group, apart from one terrible dps. He was not max level yet, was playing around with his 2h build and obviously didn't know much about rotations. The guy was obviously being carried and was slowing us down. I could have voted to kick, but I didn't. Because who am I to ruin somebody elses fun? I also could've left, but decided to push on. After we completed the dungeon (ICP) he was extremely enthusiastic, and screamed at us "Thanks for this guys. This was so fun! Awsome fights!" He obviously had a crazy time.

It just gets you thinking. You queue up for groupfinder with other people, and they might have another definition of fun. They might not care if they take 15 mins longer. You have to respect that and let them be. We cannot decide for others how they should play. Not in a system where anybody can freely queue up and join. It is abusive. We can give advice, try to help them, but thats it.

Don't like the players in your group? Just leave. Start your own group, and THEN you get to decide who stays or not. If you join the GF, you cannot demand things. There is no leader and all are equal.

lucky_Sage · March 2017

in most cases where you doing a group finder dungeon and you get a unskilled player and he isn't middle aged they don't listen.
I was doing vet ICP and this sorc was only casting curse and hard casting frags (aoe morph) and heavy attack lighting staff.
I said why are you hard casting frags. his response was I got this morph and it hits this hard on all targets. I told him you should try the other morph you will deal my overall dmg. his repose it has this hard why would I wait for a proc.the main ult he used was atro. he wasn't using wall of elements or liquid lighting up.

most people don't want to listen because they think what there doing it good.

ThePaleItalian · March 2017

CountEdmondDantes wrote: »

Thank you for posting this.

As a new player to the game, who enjoys having fun and not having people scream at him, I think you've just convinced me that grouping up for dungeons is not for me.

Thanks again.

Do not have this deter you from grouping up. Find a good guild and friends that play on your server and platform and you will not run into issues like this.

daedalusAI wrote: »

ThePaleItalian wrote: »

daedalusAI wrote: »

ThePaleItalian wrote: »

daedalusAI wrote: »

ThePaleItalian wrote: »

I am so glad that you knew everything about the game when you first played and never needed help or advise or ever checked online to help your gameplay out..... please teach us all.

Plus I am sure your observations were so nice an eloguent to help possible new players to the game that might not understand the game play.

But thank you o great one for posting this today!

My policy is to first learn the basics before I join group activity - but I guess that's just me.
If people offer advice I will take it - or do you see any merit when the DK above attacks me personally without actually evaluating what I said?

A lvl 46 DK is hardly a new player if you consider you unlock your 2nd weapon bar at lvl 15.
And if you honestly are a new player opting to play dungeons where you need a basic understanding of the game isn't a logical choice.

Interesting that your post only serves to attack me without even considering if a lvl 46 should know more than to only use 2 abilities out of a maximum of 12.

I did take that into consideration, I understand what you mean.

The issue I have and you obviously missed... why do you feel the need to share it? Your title makes you come right out like a pompous A$$. Then your thread just confirmed my thought on you.

A forum is a place to share opinions.
If you don't agree with my opinion that's totally fine and if you think am an ass that's fine too.

The more interesting question is why are you so against me posting something like this?
Is it that the lack of a proper tutorial is indeed an issue, or that people can queue right at lvl 15 for random dungeons without some sort of test if they even know the basics.

Because you come on here to put down other players. Nothing in your title, or OP comes across as a concerned player or someone looking to help out newer players.

I do agree that should be a training line of quests, just like how they used one in PvP for siege. But how do you know those players honestly didn't know how to do a rotation? Or never had anyone show them?

But instead of being a better part of the community or extending a helping hand, you stopped healing and then you blast them on a forum post... Please tell me you no know understand why I called you out. If not, then I really hope you never group with anyone that treats you that way or we will see another post from you crying about how you got kicked...

Hard to be concerned when I've acted as a commentator who describes what he sees and I got total silence and an attack on my person as response.

I will help if people are actually willing to accept help - which often starts with the realization that something you've been doing is more of less objectively bad. Without that realization no one can help you.

Worry not: I'll blast myself when I fail to pull of a certain rotation, stand in red, didn't dodge etc. - it's called learning and improving.

There is a difference in helping someone realize what they are doing is wrong or missing to help them be a better player. You did neither, you threw a fit, stopped healing and then got reported.

Waffennacht · March 2017

PelinalWhitestrake wrote: »

Kodrac wrote: »

Blame the PvE zergs. There's no skill required to kill world bosses or dolmens anymore thanks to overland sets coming from them and everyone and their brother farming them. They then take the zerg mindset into the dungeon.

Oh, let me tell you something, brother. I follow these zergs too, brother. They're amazing, brother. They're easy, brother. They're amazingly easy to get some xp while enlightened, brother. And ohohoho... brother. Let me say this, brother: I can still solo dolmens, brother. I can still do dungeons and trials, brother. I even know their mechanics, brother.

tl;dr: Brother.

Hulk Hogan!? Where have you been?!

Tandor · March 2017

I love these threads, they always serve to remind me why I solo in MMOs.

srfrogg23 · March 2017

CountEdmondDantes wrote: »

Thank you for posting this.

As a new player to the game, who enjoys having fun and not having people scream at him, I think you've just convinced me that grouping up for dungeons is not for me.

Thanks again.

Ignore the OP. Normal dungeons are where people learn the grouping mechanics and 99% of the player base is acutely aware of that fact. Screaming elitism is the exception, not the rule, in Normal Mode.

Don't let him dissuade you. He just doesn't have the capacity to use his brain for anything more than a paperweight.

daedalusAI · March 2017

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

Folks need to stop equating skill to a game with 10 active skills and two ultimates where gear and CP carry.

Folks also need to show a little bit of respect to their fellow players and foster an environment of learning and success, not salt, negativity, and toxicity.

Just be kind to one another. You have no idea what road the person on the other side of the keyboard has been on. Make it a point to make them smile and be positive not spewing hate and criticism.

You brought up an important topic which sadly most people only look at from a singular point of view.
The "old dogs" shouldn't be overly critical about new players coming in and offering a helping hand - but the new players need to show a certain degree of willingness to learn and some common sense.

[Deleted User] · March 2017

The user and all related content has been deleted.

daedalusAI · March 2017

srfrogg23 wrote: »

CountEdmondDantes wrote: »

Thank you for posting this.

As a new player to the game, who enjoys having fun and not having people scream at him, I think you've just convinced me that grouping up for dungeons is not for me.

Thanks again.

Ignore the OP. Normal dungeons are where people learn the grouping mechanics and 99% of the player base is acutely aware of that fact. Screaming elitism is the exception, not the rule, in Normal Mode.

Don't let him dissuade you. He just doesn't have the capacity to use his brain for anything more than a paperweight.

Are you sure you want to consider normal II dungeons as an easy introduction to game/grouping mechanics?
Engine guardian in darkshade caverns normal II anyone?

EldritchPenguin · March 2017

daedalusAI wrote: »

ThePaleItalian wrote: »

daedalusAI wrote: »

ThePaleItalian wrote: »

daedalusAI wrote: »

ThePaleItalian wrote: »

I am so glad that you knew everything about the game when you first played and never needed help or advise or ever checked online to help your gameplay out..... please teach us all.

Plus I am sure your observations were so nice an eloguent to help possible new players to the game that might not understand the game play.

But thank you o great one for posting this today!

My policy is to first learn the basics before I join group activity - but I guess that's just me.
If people offer advice I will take it - or do you see any merit when the DK above attacks me personally without actually evaluating what I said?

A lvl 46 DK is hardly a new player if you consider you unlock your 2nd weapon bar at lvl 15.
And if you honestly are a new player opting to play dungeons where you need a basic understanding of the game isn't a logical choice.

Interesting that your post only serves to attack me without even considering if a lvl 46 should know more than to only use 2 abilities out of a maximum of 12.

I did take that into consideration, I understand what you mean.

The issue I have and you obviously missed... why do you feel the need to share it? Your title makes you come right out like a pompous A$$. Then your thread just confirmed my thought on you.

A forum is a place to share opinions.
If you don't agree with my opinion that's totally fine and if you think am an ass that's fine too.

The more interesting question is why are you so against me posting something like this?
Is it that the lack of a proper tutorial is indeed an issue, or that people can queue right at lvl 15 for random dungeons without some sort of test if they even know the basics.

Because you come on here to put down other players. Nothing in your title, or OP comes across as a concerned player or someone looking to help out newer players.

I do agree that should be a training line of quests, just like how they used one in PvP for siege. But how do you know those players honestly didn't know how to do a rotation? Or never had anyone show them?

But instead of being a better part of the community or extending a helping hand, you stopped healing and then you blast them on a forum post... Please tell me you no know understand why I called you out. If not, then I really hope you never group with anyone that treats you that way or we will see another post from you crying about how you got kicked...

Hard to be concerned when I've acted as a commentator who describes what he sees and I got total silence and an attack on my person as response.

I will help if people are actually willing to accept help - which often starts with the realization that something you've been doing is more of less objectively bad. Without that realization no one can help you.

Worry not: I'll blast myself when I fail to pull of a certain rotation, stand in red, didn't dodge etc. - it's called learning and improving.

And when you "described with what you saw," were you respectful about it? Because nothing I have seen in this thread so far has led onto the fact that you were. It really looks like you noticed players underperforming, but rather than politely offering to help you them out, you attacked them, and then got upset when they were rightfully unhappy with you for it. And then you refused to do your part in the dungeon.

Of course, I might be making an unfair assumption of you in thinking that you were rude in your method of offering advice to underperforming players, but refusing to heal them when they got mad at you? That's extremely passive-aggressive, and probably one of the worst things you could have done in that situation. If your group is mad at you, then switch to a tab that has group chat muted. Or just leave the group. Don't respond to toxicity with more toxicity.

Izaki · March 2017

Puncturing Sweeps and Radiant D on your bar and just carry them, in your SPC and Worm gear. Who cares if some people don't know the mechanics of the game?

daedalusAI · March 2017

ThePaleItalian wrote: »

CountEdmondDantes wrote: »

Thank you for posting this.

As a new player to the game, who enjoys having fun and not having people scream at him, I think you've just convinced me that grouping up for dungeons is not for me.

Thanks again.

Do not have this deter you from grouping up. Find a good guild and friends that play on your server and platform and you will not run into issues like this.

daedalusAI wrote: »

ThePaleItalian wrote: »

daedalusAI wrote: »

ThePaleItalian wrote: »

daedalusAI wrote: »

ThePaleItalian wrote: »

I am so glad that you knew everything about the game when you first played and never needed help or advise or ever checked online to help your gameplay out..... please teach us all.

Plus I am sure your observations were so nice an eloguent to help possible new players to the game that might not understand the game play.

But thank you o great one for posting this today!

My policy is to first learn the basics before I join group activity - but I guess that's just me.
If people offer advice I will take it - or do you see any merit when the DK above attacks me personally without actually evaluating what I said?

A lvl 46 DK is hardly a new player if you consider you unlock your 2nd weapon bar at lvl 15.
And if you honestly are a new player opting to play dungeons where you need a basic understanding of the game isn't a logical choice.

Interesting that your post only serves to attack me without even considering if a lvl 46 should know more than to only use 2 abilities out of a maximum of 12.

I did take that into consideration, I understand what you mean.

The issue I have and you obviously missed... why do you feel the need to share it? Your title makes you come right out like a pompous A$$. Then your thread just confirmed my thought on you.

A forum is a place to share opinions.
If you don't agree with my opinion that's totally fine and if you think am an ass that's fine too.

The more interesting question is why are you so against me posting something like this?
Is it that the lack of a proper tutorial is indeed an issue, or that people can queue right at lvl 15 for random dungeons without some sort of test if they even know the basics.

Because you come on here to put down other players. Nothing in your title, or OP comes across as a concerned player or someone looking to help out newer players.

I do agree that should be a training line of quests, just like how they used one in PvP for siege. But how do you know those players honestly didn't know how to do a rotation? Or never had anyone show them?

But instead of being a better part of the community or extending a helping hand, you stopped healing and then you blast them on a forum post... Please tell me you no know understand why I called you out. If not, then I really hope you never group with anyone that treats you that way or we will see another post from you crying about how you got kicked...

Hard to be concerned when I've acted as a commentator who describes what he sees and I got total silence and an attack on my person as response.

I will help if people are actually willing to accept help - which often starts with the realization that something you've been doing is more of less objectively bad. Without that realization no one can help you.

Worry not: I'll blast myself when I fail to pull of a certain rotation, stand in red, didn't dodge etc. - it's called learning and improving.

There is a difference in helping someone realize what they are doing is wrong or missing to help them be a better player. You did neither, you threw a fit, stopped healing and then got reported.

How do you "help" someone realize what they are doing is wrong when they refuse to consider facts?

srfrogg23 · March 2017

daedalusAI wrote: »

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

Folks need to stop equating skill to a game with 10 active skills and two ultimates where gear and CP carry.

Folks also need to show a little bit of respect to their fellow players and foster an environment of learning and success, not salt, negativity, and toxicity.

Just be kind to one another. You have no idea what road the person on the other side of the keyboard has been on. Make it a point to make them smile and be positive not spewing hate and criticism.

You brought up an important topic which sadly most people only look at from a singular point of view.
The "old dogs" shouldn't be overly critical about new players coming in and offering a helping hand - but the new players need to show a certain degree of willingness to learn and some common sense.

Which is most likely what the people in your anecdote were in the process of doing: learning and practicing.

But, you probably wouldn't recognize that process if it bit you on the ass, would you?

"They're not playing like experts! They're obviously not interested in learning! Scrubs."

Tapio75 · March 2017

Bigger question here is, that why some players are totally unwilling to learn at least the basics these days? Players did not need tutorials at the past, they played and read the descriptions of spells and abilities and learned a rudimentary understanding how the class they play works.

People used to respond and even thank me when i whispered some suggestions in polite and non agressive manner. Now they mostly do not respons at all, all people respond to is agressive commentary and insults which leads to nowhere.

Some take on advice but thats vast minority compared how people used to take advice in the past.

In other hand, unwillingness to learn basics should not be encouraged by carrying people who dont want to learn. They should be given some suggestions and not get angry if they attack you in the response, just pass on and ignore if they dont want to learn the basics. Being casual player for fun does not mean, that you dont have to put minimal effort to gameplay. Especially in group content, be it pug or guild group, it does not matter.