PvE vs PvP balance solution

srfrogg23
srfrogg23
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It seems to me that any MMO developer with both PvE and PvP in their game spends a huge amount of time trying to find the right balance between these two types of gameplay. Customers, regardless of their preference, often find their favorite content being rebalanced in ways they don't like because of the development teams need to balance these two types of content against each other. That seems to lead to a lot of wasted development time for the company as well as irritation for the customer.

Here's my solution:
Zenimax should duplicate all PvE skills to create a PvE version and a PvP version of the current skill list. They would be balance separately without affecting the other, so the devs can tackle the unique types of gameplay in the most appropriate way without having to worry about hindering the other type.

The PvE skill list would automatically be the list available in PvE zones. The PvP version of the list would only be available in PvP zones.

To take it a step further, all skill points earned by the player would be duplicated to each list (I.e. You earn 10 skill points, you will have 10 available for the PvE version of the list and 10 available for the PvP version of the skill list). You could then assign the same number of skill points to each list, but picking and choosing only the skills you want for that type of content. Different skill load outs for each.

All in all, what you're looking at is all of the same available skills, just duplicated and balanced separately to create a better situation for not only the customers, but also the dev teams because they won't have to consistently correct loopholes in one type of content the resulted from fixing a loophole in the other type of content.
Edited by srfrogg23 on January 5, 2017 5:20PM

PvE vs PvP balance solution 36 votes

Yes, I think it would be a good investment
58%
Messy1TrayzardzariaSoellaNebthet78Jacozillasigsergvsrfrogg23LorDrekphairdongreyloxkarma69SyraniPlaceboSoulKimberlyannKitsuragiDoctordarkspawnIlCanis_LupuslIJaeme DiamLordGavusKeiruNicrom 21 votes
No, I don't think it would be a good investment of Dev time because...
41%
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  • Trayzard
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    Yes, I think it would be a good investment
    yep... Has been the huge problem of the game for many years. And it looks like no one cares.
    My favorite example is Guild Wars 1. It works perfect. Many skills have PVP and PVE Versions. Sometimes they also have totally different effects.

    TESO has so many less skills. I dont see the problem. What is the use of a slow spell which slows a single target enemy for 4 seconds in PVE? It's useless. There are so many dead skills i can't use cuz they are PVP skills.

    For me it's a big weakness of TESO for years. We should get more variety in the skills, so all of them will be useful for PVE. And the best thing is: If something get nerfed BECAUSE OF PVP the PVE skill won't be affected!
    Edited by Trayzard on March 3, 2017 2:02AM
  • PlaceboSoul
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    Yes, I think it would be a good investment
    Personally, pvp never caught on for me, too many broken elements in it and exploitables. Thought I'd wait until ZOS fixed them, but more and more it looks like that won't happen. So yeah, balancing the game more heavily due to pvp gripes, never sat well with me. I don't want my pve experience made worse or more difficult so that the broken pvp mechanics will mesh better.

    Separating the two would be an excellent idea, because I know there are a ton of people who feel the opposite of the way I do, and love pvp but don't like pve.

    Separation of the balancing would sit well with both the pve and pvp crowds I think. With separate balancing, probably still can't make everyone happy, but certainly everyone can be closer and at least happier.
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  • Soella
    Soella
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    Yes, I think it would be a good investment
    Separating PvE and PvP skills was invented like 5-6 years ago, I would hope it is industry standard by now....
  • CasNation
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    No, I don't think it would be a good investment of Dev time because...
    I get the appeal, but do you have any idea how non-intuitive that would be to new players? Imagine going into Cyro/BG's for the first time and finding that your abilities don't do what they have been doing for the past 10 levels. Talk about a bad experience on top of the already overwhelming learning curve for PvP in this game.

    Personally, I think it is important that the skills are consistent throughout the game, but maybe that is just me.

    What I wish they would do is just bring back soft caps and remove battle spirit for crying out loud...but that is another topic entirely.
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  • ThePaulrus94
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    No, I don't think it would be a good investment of Dev time because...
    Sounds good on paper, but I think it'd be a nightmare when it comes to playing. As mentioned, it would be very uninviting for new players. Secondly, dies this mean people now have 4 abilities bars to manage? Furthermore, when just plain talking about skills the question will always be, "are we talking about the PvP or PvE ability?"
  • srfrogg23
    srfrogg23
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    Yes, I think it would be a good investment
    Heh, I thought this poll got lost in the ether of the back pages of the forums. Kinda weird to see it pop back up.

    I'd say, an easy fix to the unintuitiveness of having a second set of PvP skills to allocate would be the same solution as learning the game from the start.

    A quick tutorial message should suffice when letting new players know they have a second set of duplicate skill points to allocate. It's something people would get used to the first time they did it.

    It also would be 2 action bars, not 4. The same setup as PvE skill point allocation and use. The skills would simply be balanced with stats that are appropriate to that particular gameplay to accommodate for the unique balancing challenges associated with PvP.

    Threads discussing builds and mechanics are generally stated to be PvP or PvE related to begin with. The change to theory crafting threads and guides shouldn't be affected in any substantive way.
  • colig
    colig
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    Trayzard wrote: »
    yep... Has been the huge problem of the game for many years. And it looks like no one cares.
    My favorite example is Guild Wars 1. It works perfect. Many skills have PVP and PVE Versions. Sometimes they also have totally different effects.

    TESO has so many less skills. I dont see the problem. What is the use of a slow spell which slows a single target enemy for 4 seconds in PVE? It's useless. There are so many dead skills i can't use cuz they are PVP skills.

    For me it's a big weakness of TESO for years. We should get more variety in the skills, so all of them will be useful for PVE. And the best thing is: If something get nerfed BECAUSE OF PVP the PVE skill won't be affected!

    Yup. Those who worry it'll be too confusing: it won't, from my experience with GW1. On the other hand, a change like this might not be necessary if ZOS is comfortable with adding more changes to Battle Spirit.
  • Stratforge
    Stratforge
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    No, I don't think it would be a good investment of Dev time because...
    pve doesn't need to be balanced. literally no reason it has to be. youre fighting npcs.
    Edited by Stratforge on March 3, 2017 5:10AM
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  • PlaceboSoul
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    Yes, I think it would be a good investment
    Stratforge wrote: »
    pve doesn't need to be balanced. literally no reason it has to be. youre fighting npcs.

    So you are an avid pvper then.

    Just because pve isn't important to you doesn't void its importance to others. If a skill needs changing for pvp balance, and no longer works as well in pve, and it's in my standard pve rotation, it's very irksome.

    I personally am the opposite view, I don't pvp, and I think a lot of the mechanics are so broken it's not worth balancing. But that opinion is based on my not being an active pvp player.

    I still in fairness to all think both pve and pvp deserve balance, and both aspects of the game are equally important, because there are people that are invested in both of them.
    Edited by PlaceboSoul on March 3, 2017 5:20AM
    PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!
  • Doctordarkspawn
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    Yes, I think it would be a good investment
    It would be a wonderfull investment of developer time. Sadly, I dont think it'll ever happen, though.
  • Doctordarkspawn
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    Yes, I think it would be a good investment
    Stratforge wrote: »
    pve doesn't need to be balanced. literally no reason it has to be. youre fighting npcs.

    Spoken like someone with absolutely no idea what their talking about and unfit to be consulted on these matters.
  • Glurin
    Glurin
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    Stratforge wrote: »
    pve doesn't need to be balanced. literally no reason it has to be. youre fighting npcs.

    Yeah, instantly one-shotting all the bad guys no matter who they are or how tough they're supposed to be is so much fun. /sarcasm
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster...when you gaze long into the abyss the abyss also gazes into you..."
  • PlaceboSoul
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    Yes, I think it would be a good investment
    Yeah, cuz exploiting various glitches that exist in game and basically one shotting other players in pvp is so much fun.
    /sarcasm

    See what I did there?
    PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!
  • EldritchPenguin
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    No, I don't think it would be a good investment of Dev time because...
    Stratforge wrote: »
    pve doesn't need to be balanced. literally no reason it has to be. youre fighting npcs.
    Balance is the lifeblood of both challenge and build diversity. Without balance, both of them fall apart entirely, and then most of what makes a video game worth playing disappears. Contrary to popular belief, this applies to PvE as well as PvP. Is balance more lenient in PvE? Certainly. But simply being PvE does not excuse it from needing balance.
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  • EldritchPenguin
    EldritchPenguin
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    No, I don't think it would be a good investment of Dev time because...
    Yeah, cuz exploiting various glitches that exist in game and basically one shotting other players in pvp is so much fun.
    /sarcasm

    See what I did there?
    I don't really see what that has to do with balance between PvE and PvP. Glitches are glitches, and they need to be patched out of the game, regardless of which area of the game they impact.

    Edit: Whoops. I missed the sarcasm part. My apologies. Should've stopped at the first margarita.
    Edited by EldritchPenguin on March 3, 2017 5:59AM
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