How much health is needed for magic users?

zaria · March 2017

I have an cp240 templar and sorcerer and feel that both have too low magic as in the 28k range.
Has understood that 18k health is needed, both values are with food.

Gear is julianos and mother sorrow. purple with increase magic, blue jewelery with restore magic.
around 20 attributes into health. Going 64 magic would help but would leave me with 14 k health.
raising CP give more health and magic but only around 7 each time you get an cp point
No I don't die often, but my dps is low.

Dr_Rektar · March 2017

16-18*k is ok for vet trials

MissBizz · March 2017

Unless something has changed, moving your attribute points from health to magicka should only make you lose about 2440 health. I would definitely try it and see what happens. If you are not having issues in dungeons, you can squeeze your health down to 17k (with food).

Bit odd as my sorc has 17k health and 0 points into health... you are using blue mag/health food right?

zaria · March 2017

Dr_Rektar wrote: »

16-18*k is ok for vet trials

non dlc vet dungeon and normal trials is my upper limit now, reducing to 16 would help.

zaria · March 2017

MissBizz wrote: »

Unless something has changed, moving your attribute points from health to magicka should only make you lose about 2440 health. I would definitely try it and see what happens. If you are not having issues in dungeons, you can squeeze your health down to 17k (with food).

Bit odd as my sorc has 17k health and 0 points into health... you are using blue mag/health food right?

Blue cp160 health+magic food.
I think cp level is important here as higher health and higher magic let you shift all into magic and still have enough health.
But scaling health down to 16 sounds like an plan.

MissBizz · March 2017

zaria wrote: »

MissBizz wrote: »

Unless something has changed, moving your attribute points from health to magicka should only make you lose about 2440 health. I would definitely try it and see what happens. If you are not having issues in dungeons, you can squeeze your health down to 17k (with food).

Bit odd as my sorc has 17k health and 0 points into health... you are using blue mag/health food right?

Blue cp160 health+magic food.
I think cp level is important here as higher health and higher magic let you shift all into magic and still have enough health.
But scaling health down to 16 sounds like an plan.

Yeah, going off your numbers though, I only gain about 746 health from how much more CP than I have for you. That doesn't make up the difference in numbers.

zaria · March 2017

Could always try and if problems swap some enchants from fortify magic to health.

Magic_Longsword · March 2017

As a magicka build, you have shields available to you. And on your templar, your jabs heal too. You should be fine with 16-18k, and don't forget that most tanks in end-game wear the Ebon set, so that should boost your health by another 1K.

Also don't forget to equip 1 piece heavy and 1 piece medium to get the 6% max stats from the Undaunted mettle passive. It will boost your health by 1k at least.

Danksta · March 2017

MissBizz wrote: »

Unless something has changed, moving your attribute points from health to magicka should only make you lose about 2440 health. I would definitely try it and see what happens. If you are not having issues in dungeons, you can squeeze your health down to 17k (with food).

Bit odd as my sorc has 17k health and 0 points into health... you are using blue mag/health food right?

If you have 17k health you're getting a health bonus or two somewhere. On my sorc who has absolutely no health bonuses (Altmer, 7 light, no undaunted mettle, no gear with health bonuses, etc.) sits just under 16k health (pre-housing patch).

To the OP, are you using CP150 max health/magicka food? What strength (color) are your enchantments for your gear? You could use Inner Light for the max magic (5%, plus another 2% and 2% recovery from the Mage's guild passive) passive on either of your characters and Bound Armor (8% max magic) on your sorc to boost your magic pool.

Nestor · March 2017

None of my casters have any points put into Health, no set bonuses that give health, no glyphs that give health.

Shields are what you need.

zaria · March 2017

Magic_Longsword wrote: »

As a magicka build, you have shields available to you. And on your templar, your jabs heal too. You should be fine with 16-18k, and don't forget that most tanks in end-game wear the Ebon set, so that should boost your health by another 1K.

Also don't forget to equip 1 piece heavy and 1 piece medium to get the 6% max stats from the Undaunted mettle passive. It will boost your health by 1k at least.

Know about shield, use them on sorcerer a lot as bound agesis is slotted anyway.
The heavy and medium was an very good idea, no issue then using crafted gear.

And the jabs are insane, you want more adds as they heal you

zaria · March 2017

Danksta wrote: »

MissBizz wrote: »

Unless something has changed, moving your attribute points from health to magicka should only make you lose about 2440 health. I would definitely try it and see what happens. If you are not having issues in dungeons, you can squeeze your health down to 17k (with food).

Bit odd as my sorc has 17k health and 0 points into health... you are using blue mag/health food right?

If you have 17k health you're getting a health bonus or two somewhere. On my sorc who has absolutely no health bonuses (Altmer, 7 light, no undaunted mettle, no gear with health bonuses, etc.) sits just under 16k health (pre-housing patch).

To the OP, are you using CP150 max health/magicka food? What strength (color) are your enchantments for your gear? You could use Inner Light for the max magic (5%, plus another 2% and 2% recovery from the Mage's guild passive) passive on either of your characters and Bound Armor (8% max magic) on your sorc to boost your magic pool.

Yes, cp150-160 food, use a bit of lower cp food then questing, purple/ gold enchantments on armor, gold on weapon.
Has inner light on templar,

Magic_Longsword · March 2017

zaria wrote: »

Magic_Longsword wrote: »

As a magicka build, you have shields available to you. And on your templar, your jabs heal too. You should be fine with 16-18k, and don't forget that most tanks in end-game wear the Ebon set, so that should boost your health by another 1K.

Also don't forget to equip 1 piece heavy and 1 piece medium to get the 6% max stats from the Undaunted mettle passive. It will boost your health by 1k at least.

Know about shield, use them on sorcerer a lot as bound agesis is slotted anyway.
The heavy and medium was an very good idea, no issue then using crafted gear.

And the jabs are insane, you want more adds as they heal you

I play Sorcerer and Templar too, and with the 6% undaunted mettle and all 64 attribute points into Magicka, I'm at roughly 17k health. Which, as most people said, is more than enough.
Also the heavy armor piece bonus, no matter how smalls the stats, is quite useful. And since the BiS gear has 2 monster sets + 5 crafted as base, you can either get your Ilambirs / Grothdar head in Heavy via farming, or craft yourself a heavy chest of Julianos / Twice Born Star.

Though if you're really that worried about your health and not aiming for end-game vet Trials, you can always play with Valkyn Skoria. It has 1 max health bonus and the proc isn't that bad.

zaria · March 2017

Magic_Longsword wrote: »

zaria wrote: »

Magic_Longsword wrote: »

As a magicka build, you have shields available to you. And on your templar, your jabs heal too. You should be fine with 16-18k, and don't forget that most tanks in end-game wear the Ebon set, so that should boost your health by another 1K.

Also don't forget to equip 1 piece heavy and 1 piece medium to get the 6% max stats from the Undaunted mettle passive. It will boost your health by 1k at least.

Know about shield, use them on sorcerer a lot as bound agesis is slotted anyway.
The heavy and medium was an very good idea, no issue then using crafted gear.

And the jabs are insane, you want more adds as they heal you

I play Sorcerer and Templar too, and with the 6% undaunted mettle and all 64 attribute points into Magicka, I'm at roughly 17k health. Which, as most people said, is more than enough.
Also the heavy armor piece bonus, no matter how smalls the stats, is quite useful. And since the BiS gear has 2 monster sets + 5 crafted as base, you can either get your Ilambirs / Grothdar head in Heavy via farming, or craft yourself a heavy chest of Julianos / Twice Born Star.

Though if you're really that worried about your health and not aiming for end-game vet Trials, you can always play with Valkyn Skoria. It has 1 max health bonus and the proc isn't that bad.

Thanks, thinking of farming necropotence for my sorc, the extra magic and free dps looks nice. Always liked pet builds.
No plans for vet trials, know they have another level of requirements and higher skill levels

PlaceboSoul · March 2017

I don't put anything to health either on my sorcerer. If you have anything to add to damage mitigation, shields, hot, anything really, you are usually fine. Now and then if I'm trying to solo a world boss or something else equally stupid I might get one-shotted, but it doesn't happen all that often in the current game build.

davey1107 · March 2017

I love Sorcs who ask the minimum amount of health they can get away with. So. Much. AP. Lol.

In all seriousness, the answer to this question is very different between a CP250 and CP600 toon. In my opinion, CP250-350 is one of the toughest periods in the game because you have the power to start end game content, but the handicap of 350 less CPs is massive. At the level, if you absolutely minimize health you might do okay if you have great healers watching out for you and are veeeeeery good with shields and wards, but there are plenty of fights that can One shot you if you make even or slip up.

Your second challenge may be your use of blue/purple gear. I don't recommend running out and spending a gazillion dollars...you don't sound like you've settled completely on which sets you'll ultimately use. But be aware that there is a definite bump when you go from purple to gold. It might look small on the tool tip, but when you add it all up it's significant.

The weapons are particularly more powerful when they go gold. Their damage is the starting point in your dps calculations, so adding 100+ damage to a weapon itself is huge. I also like using Julianos on magic builds. You might work toward gold Julianos weapons...at least on one of your toons and See how that changes dps.

Third, you don't mention where you put your CPs, but this is very important. Piling them into basics is better than spreading them in weird stuff. You want to be investing heavily in increasing magic damage (forget what it's called) in blue. And in reds pile into hardy and elemental defend. Don't spend in niche passives...go for the ones that increase every hit, make every hit cheaper, and defend against all incoming damage.

zaria · March 2017

davey1107 wrote: »

I love Sorcs who ask the minimum amount of health they can get away with. So. Much. AP. Lol.

In all seriousness, the answer to this question is very different between a CP250 and CP600 toon. In my opinion, CP250-350 is one of the toughest periods in the game because you have the power to start end game content, but the handicap of 350 less CPs is massive. At the level, if you absolutely minimize health you might do okay if you have great healers watching out for you and are veeeeeery good with shields and wards, but there are plenty of fights that can One shot you if you make even or slip up.

Your second challenge may be your use of blue/purple gear. I don't recommend running out and spending a gazillion dollars...you don't sound like you've settled completely on which sets you'll ultimately use. But be aware that there is a definite bump when you go from purple to gold. It might look small on the tool tip, but when you add it all up it's significant.

The weapons are particularly more powerful when they go gold. Their damage is the starting point in your dps calculations, so adding 100+ damage to a weapon itself is huge. I also like using Julianos on magic builds. You might work toward gold Julianos weapons...at least on one of your toons and See how that changes dps.

Third, you don't mention where you put your CPs, but this is very important. Piling them into basics is better than spreading them in weird stuff. You want to be investing heavily in increasing magic damage (forget what it's called) in blue. And in reds pile into hardy and elemental defend. Don't spend in niche passives...go for the ones that increase every hit, make every hit cheaper, and defend against all incoming damage.

Thanks, use gold / gold on weapon, will upgrade back weapon too. And yes it had huge impact.
Uses Delias guides.
No I'm not quite sure where I'm going, thinking a bit of the necropotente pet build too.
Dps is mostly about stopping messing up rotations who tend to do on the sorcerer.
Is it an addon who show bar status including back bar? Stendar give lots of information but is not very useful in combat.
If crystal frag has proc is one, its impossible to see in many dungeon fights.

bryanhaas · March 2017

zaria wrote: »

I have an cp240 templar and sorcerer and feel that both have too low magic as in the 28k range.
Has understood that 18k health is needed, both values are with food.

Gear is julianos and mother sorrow. purple with increase magic, blue jewelery with restore magic.
around 20 attributes into health. Going 64 magic would help but would leave me with 14 k health.
raising CP give more health and magic but only around 7 each time you get an cp point
No I don't die often, but my dps is low.

I usually run around 16k help on my sorc, sometimes as low as 14k and do fine. My magic is usually 40k+

AcadianPaladin · March 2017

I have a CP315 Bosmeri Magplar healer. Her attributes are all magicka and so is her gear with a couple caveats. She gets one hp boost from the enchantment on her helm and another from a set bonus. She runs CP160 Savories (mag + hp). On food she is 32.5k mag and 18.2 health. Her health is plenty as the same healing that is her primary role also serves as her primary defense – she can self-heal faster than most foes can hurt her and her health is plenty to avoid one-shots for the content she plays.

As a healer, we don’t pay much attention to her dps, though it is plenty enough to solo open world, delves and public dungeons. Her pool of magicka is fine for solid healing and sustain. With one of the ‘magicka’ races, I expect she’d be roughly 3K higher on magicka.