Justice system needs that second part which is missing.

Tommy_The_Gun · March 2017

Tapio75 wrote: »

We need a way to call a guard, to attack a murderer, defend citizens and animals, catch thieves and so forth.

I hope you do realize that it will only cause that good steal-able spots will be ruined by gankers in PvE who will just camp there only to spam more guards ? It will be worse than throwing mud-balls at people.

The NPC murdering is only because you can steal 3 items from them. If they are killed/murdered they re-spawn with full inventory again. And NPCs Usually drop more expensive to fence stuff than you can find in chest/containers. If you max out certain passives (Legerdemain Skills & Thieves Guild Skills) you can earn 10K - 15K per day just from fencing stuff. And where does this money goes ? Yup you guessed it - to the guild traders.
So if you will take away the ability to earn that gold from most of the players - the traders guild will be the ones who will suffer the most.

danno8 · March 2017

There would have to be risk for the person attacking the thief as well though right? How about if you lose, the thief takes a slice of your total gold (including gold you try to hide in your bank, no cheating now!) Or a random piece of gear that you are wearing?

You talk about balance, but did you think it would be balanced to have no consequences for a failed attempt to take out the thief/murderer?

STEVIL · March 2017

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Tapio75 wrote: »

We need a way to call a guard, to attack a murderer, defend citizens and animals, catch thieves and so forth.

I hope you do realize that it will only cause that good steal-able spots will be ruined by gankers in PvE who will just camp there only to spam more guards ? It will be worse than throwing mud-balls at people.

The NPC murdering is only because you can steal 3 items from them. If they are killed/murdered they re-spawn with full inventory again. And NPCs Usually drop more expensive to fence stuff than you can find in chest/containers. If you max out certain passives (Legerdemain Skills & Thieves Guild Skills) you can earn 10K - 15K per day just from fencing stuff. And where does this money goes ? Yup you guessed it - to the guild traders.
So if you will take away the ability to earn that gold from most of the players - the traders guild will be the ones who will suffer the most.

10-15k a day from fencing.

i get over 30k (just counting gold reward - nothing else) from daily writs in under 90m play on writs.
mat supplies stable from routine play, no harvesting, no purchases needed.
No chance of bounty from that.

maybe writs are so imbalanced they would be improved by adding PVP? :-)

Likely the next set of "look pvp makes everything better" threads.

As you step up to the alchemy table, a chill runs down your spine as a soft whisper with a hint of bosmer says "i saw where you got that columbine, Butcher! Red for the Green." Then it all goes black.

Khami · March 2017

Why should I have to PvP over PvE actions? The logic on that doesn't even compute correctly. PvE actions should never have PvP consequences. If that was part of the game, I would not have returned to it in December last year.

I can see the ganking that would happen with "PvP guards" posted at every outlaw refuge. If you think that wouldn't happen, you've never played on an open world PvP server.

People with high bounties aren't running around with no fear of getting caught. Every town has guards, they will attack you with any bounty and if the bounty is in the 1000s, guards will attack on sight.

Tapio75 · March 2017

@hmsdragonfly

unless i am on a ship that can elude a PVP player and even if im on my mining bvrge, the risk is part of the exitement. Its all about risk vs gain. If i just mine in areas over 0.5 sec status, i will not bothered by players but if i g deeper to bvelow 0.5 or straight to 0.0 i need an escort from my corporates.

During my mining career of 5 years, i did most of it in high security zones where everyone can shoot you if they want to deal with consequences. I got ganked only once by Goonswarm in 0.5 sec system and even then, it ewas part of accepted risk. The game simply is bland if there is no danger involved.

Good player tries to learn a bit of every aspect in the game, being lazy who wants all in platter should not be encouraged.

Even if no PVP is added to the equation, the risk VS gain model can be implemented. Naturally rewards should also be better if consequences are more harsh though i would say 10-30k gold a day doing crime with no risk involved is not very balanced system. Though its a system everyone using it will defend and come up with all sorts of explanation why it should not be changed becaue its in game currency and thus, is important to people. That does not mean however, that the system should be so eeasy. Free gold from loot is always bad for economy, it leads to infinite inflation on economy and inflation is not good in game nor in real life.

@srfrogg23
This fish is not gonna grab your bait.

Though i will say that one can tolerate griefing when he/she gets enough of it and as in real life, ignore and report is always the best solution, not participating in their idea of fun.

@Duiwel
This one will prevail, Khajit has sharp claws, yes?

This one think, you shall not prevail, for Srendar

@Tommy_The_Gun
When i play a thief, and come up with a spot that can be robbed minute after minute, day after day for good profit, it just starts to feel like im looting some area, not actually participating in criminal activity. Eventually officials of Tamriel would get interested in that spot where crime happens all the time and send some guards there to keep lawful citizens safe and their valuable safe as well, it is only immersion and immersion makes things i do in game plausible instead of just crude game mechanic without any reaction to your actions.

Besides, system to cakll guards could be made robust enough to prevent spamming, system could only allow 1 to 2 guards per area it is called on, no matter hpow many players call it. The guards could also scale to number and strenth of criminals in the area so that if some people decide to zerg some crime to make them all attackable to exploit the system and grief on others, the guards would be strong enough to one shot them n the site, perphaps a strong battlemage that can root em all while teleporrting to area and then using some strong aoe spell, slaughter the zerg, that would serve em. I understand this sort of system would be difficult to make but it IS possible if one want to make a system where griefing is not tolerated.

Then again some people say that griefing is a part of MMO though i dont see why it needs to be. I played many games and while the griefing always happens to some point in some degree, its not that big of a problem in a whole,.

@danno8
Naturally there has to be risk to attacker as well, the gold is a good idea though i would not take it to unrealistic degree by involving bank in it because bank is not with the player. If the player does not carry enough gold, then some item from them would be stolen instead, perphaps the most valuable ones, stack of soul gems is always a good alernative.

hmsdragonfly · March 2017

@Tapio75
The thing is, you find being murdered by PvPers again and again "part of the fun", but the majority of players don't. Since you never PvP, it's certain you don't even know what you are talking about. Just come here and let me follow you and kill you everytime you try to do something, then tell me if it's fun. On the other hand, it's very fun when you kill inexperienced players, so expect everyone camping near your favorite stealing spot and gank all the unlucky PvEers who try to make some money through thieving.

If we ever implement that PvP Justice System, there has to be another server dedicated to it, or most non-PvP casual players just quit. But it will split up the player population so I don't see how it is going to happen.

SirCritical · March 2017

I hope some of you played with Archlord. Let’s just implement that skull-infamy system in ESO, and it will be done.

Uriel_Nocturne · March 2017

Tapio75 wrote: »

@hmsdragonfly

unless i am on a ship that can elude a PVP player and even if im on my mining bvrge, the risk is part of the exitement. Its all about risk vs gain. If i just mine in areas over 0.5 sec status, i will not bothered by players but if i g deeper to bvelow 0.5 or straight to 0.0 i need an escort from my corporates.

During my mining career of 5 years, i did most of it in high security zones where everyone can shoot you if they want to deal with consequences. I got ganked only once by Goonswarm in 0.5 sec system and even then, it ewas part of accepted risk. The game simply is bland if there is no danger involved.

Good player tries to learn a bit of every aspect in the game, being lazy who wants all in platter should not be encouraged.

Even if no PVP is added to the equation, the risk VS gain model can be implemented. Naturally rewards should also be better if consequences are more harsh though i would say 10-30k gold a day doing crime with no risk involved is not very balanced system. Though its a system everyone using it will defend and come up with all sorts of explanation why it should not be changed becaue its in game currency and thus, is important to people. That does not mean however, that the system should be so eeasy. Free gold from loot is always bad for economy, it leads to infinite inflation on economy and inflation is not good in game nor in real life.

@srfrogg23
This fish is not gonna grab your bait.

Though i will say that one can tolerate griefing when he/she gets enough of it and as in real life, ignore and report is always the best solution, not participating in their idea of fun.

@Duiwel
This one will prevail, Khajit has sharp claws, yes?

This one think, you shall not prevail, for Srendar

@Tommy_The_Gun
When i play a thief, and come up with a spot that can be robbed minute after minute, day after day for good profit, it just starts to feel like im looting some area, not actually participating in criminal activity. Eventually officials of Tamriel would get interested in that spot where crime happens all the time and send some guards there to keep lawful citizens safe and their valuable safe as well, it is only immersion and immersion makes things i do in game plausible instead of just crude game mechanic without any reaction to your actions.

Besides, system to cakll guards could be made robust enough to prevent spamming, system could only allow 1 to 2 guards per area it is called on, no matter hpow many players call it. The guards could also scale to number and strenth of criminals in the area so that if some people decide to zerg some crime to make them all attackable to exploit the system and grief on others, the guards would be strong enough to one shot them n the site, perphaps a strong battlemage that can root em all while teleporrting to area and then using some strong aoe spell, slaughter the zerg, that would serve em. I understand this sort of system would be difficult to make but it IS possible if one want to make a system where griefing is not tolerated.

Then again some people say that griefing is a part of MMO though i dont see why it needs to be. I played many games and while the griefing always happens to some point in some degree, its not that big of a problem in a whole,.

@danno8
Naturally there has to be risk to attacker as well, the gold is a good idea though i would not take it to unrealistic degree by involving bank in it because bank is not with the player. If the player does not carry enough gold, then some item from them would be stolen instead, perphaps the most valuable ones, stack of soul gems is always a good alernative.

@Tapio75 I like how you're continuously ignoring @Nestor 's comment.

You're using ALL of the Skill Passives from the Thieves Guild/Dark Brotherhood/Legerdemain Skill lines that make criminal activity magnitudes easier, but then complaining that criminal activity is too easy.

The most simple method to increasing the "difficulty" and adding in "consequences that make criminal activity criminal" is to not use those passives, don't go into Stealth when you Pickpocket/Steal/Murder, and don't check the area to see if Guards are around.

But no... you want to change the whole game to suit your narrow viewpoint.

To agree with people detracting from you: Since you don't PvP at all, you have NO IDEA how bad the griefing would be if Players could do something even so small as to call the Guards on other Players. You think you'd be able to fight off a dedicated PvP'er whom is trying to arrest you?

Just the fact that you have next to no experience in PvP, or in any MMORPG's that have fully Open World PvP, clearly represents to me that you have no idea what you're talking about when you make suggestions like these.

I despise PvP in my MMORPG's (I personally think PvP is a cancer that never should have come to MMO's, but that's just my opinion), and I especially despise Open World PvP MMORPG's.

Why?

Because I've played them, I've seen the griefing abused at its worst, and it cemented my opinion that this would be (and is) toxic in MMORPG's, and this type of Player-led "Justice System" would be one of the features that would drive Players away from ESO in droves.

Don't use the Skills that make criminal activity vastly easier, then complain that criminal activity is too easy. That's the definition of hypocrisy.

Taleof2Cities · March 2017

As much as I would like to see this implemented, it flat out isn't going to happen ... and ZOS has attested to that being the case.

srfrogg23 · March 2017

Tapio75 wrote: »

@srfrogg23
This fish is not gonna grab your bait.

Though i will say that one can tolerate griefing when he/she gets enough of it and as in real life, ignore and report is always the best solution, not participating in their idea of fun.

I don't care if you think it's bait. The point is that you don't understand the concept of "griefing".

You're not a "willing participant" in "their idea of fun". Their idea of fun is to annoy you until you stop playing the game altogether. Their idea of fun is to *** you off by wasting your time. It's called trolling.

And, no, "reporting them" for harassment doesn't work because they are playing the game in a perfectly legitimate way.

In open-world PvP, which is what you are recommending, players are allowed to kill other players as many times as they like. That is how that system works. It's not harassment, it is an intended feature of open-world PvP.

Do you really think Zenimax is going to step in and say "ok, that's enough, you've spent too much time kicking the puppy! It's time to stop now."

No. They won't; if they implement the system you're talking about. Griefing would be a "feature".

STEVIL · March 2017

@Tapio75
"Even if no PVP is added to the equation, the risk VS gain model can be implemented. Naturally rewards should also be better if consequences are more harsh though i would say 10-30k gold a day doing crime with no risk involved is not very balanced system. "

For get the bits about whether or not you know PVP, do you know the basic scales in this game?

I can run in about 90m my daily writs and their base gold payout (ignoring all the surveys and other stuff) is over 33k. There is no risk there.

take maybe 2 hrs tops running mudcrabs on a good spot of beach, or delving etc and you got lots more reward coming in. one good motif from a delve is sellable for 10k gravy or more.

neither the mudcrabs nor the delves nor the writs offer any significant risk to an experienced player with right skills and equipment - similarly to how with the right skills and such there is little to no risk in thieving.

if one is going to bring into an argument acceptable or unacceptable benchmarks for gains vs time vs risk for activities - imbalanced v balanced - oneshould want to take a moment or two to compare those benchmarks to the gold and reward flow in the other similarly (non-)risky activities that can produce rewards.

BTW i have no problem with adding more higher risk injustice content. put in "end-game like" thefts and murders where its needed to be very good or well equipped and so on... not for rookies. They kind of exist now in the heists and sacraments.

But the idea to take the whole of the injustice and convert it to higher risk system - nope - bad bad idea - cuz a sub-system of content needs to be playable from low level. those thieves without legerd-20, without potions of invis or edicts to reduce bounty or without potions of immov/spd/invis to make oh-crap getaways easier wont get too far if it starts hard and gets harder cuz its scaled to be exciting for fully maxed thiefery/assassins types.

Stealthy and thievery dont get battle scaled to bring rookies at least into the ballpark.

ADD more content at higher scales - sure.
TOUGHEN existing base content to that high end scale for injustice - not a good idea if you want new players jumping into it and sticking with it in the face of so many alternatives for their gameplay time in game with better advancement and reward.

Tapio75 · March 2017

@Uriel_Nocturne
Why do you assume i use skill passives at all? I dont remember talking about skill lines at all and no, i am not using any of those passives that make stealing easier, basically just improved hiding and trafficker.

We both also know that one simply cant pickpocket without being in sneak.

Basically i do not play criminal to get profit, trade is for profit bu6t i do crime for immersion and as a part of character biography. There being a RP reason to be criminal does not mean that there do not need to be actual consequences.

I dont even understand wwhy anyone wpould think stealing as actually stealing rather than looting if the stealing and getting caught does not have consequences. It sounds like people just want to play criminals in god mode.

We both also know that "Murdered by player over and over again" is reaching to extreme. Cant see this in any game, certainly not in EVE wwhere the police system also works well. If the player is too foolish to venture to low sec space without friends and escort, its just his/her own fault not willing to learn the system.

It would be same in ESO, if one spot is good for crime, it will be eventually be full of players, best solution is to change place, we both know that those people are not everywhere.

We dont need to change the discussion to drama theater with extremes, every rational person knows that these extremes are also extremely rare.

I also dont get it why people dont want any exitement while doing crime, why is it so, that crime has to feel just like looting stuff? Getting profit is not good enough reason as in any game, the immersion is also a part of the whole and looting peoples pockets is not very exitement.

Why do we want to say these things over and over again? We will never go to any conclusion, we will not change ourt opinions, right? It is internet and people think they are entitled to their small opinion, just like i am entitled to my small opinion but stating these opinions over and over again is pointless and frustrating to both sides.

What we should do, is to find something in the midle, some more consequences to your side but not too much to totally break your gamestyle. If we want to cater to most amount of players, we need different playstyles and diverse option of different degrees of risk as well as different degrees of rewards proportional to the risk. Currently its just PVP and PVE, theres basically nothing in between them or if only PVE, its just killing mobs and looting stuff, good game also need different degrees of PVE for both the groups and solo players.

Uriel_Nocturne · March 2017

Tapio75 wrote: »

@Uriel_Nocturne
Why do you assume i use skill passives at all? I dont remember talking about skill lines at all and no, i am not using any of those passives that make stealing easier, basically just improved hiding and trafficker.

We both also know that one simply cant pickpocket without being in sneak.

Basically i do not play criminal to get profit, trade is for profit bu6t i do crime for immersion and as a part of character biography. There being a RP reason to be criminal does not mean that there do not need to be actual consequences.

I dont even understand wwhy anyone wpould think stealing as actually stealing rather than looting if the stealing and getting caught does not have consequences. It sounds like people just want to play criminals in god mode.

We both also know that "Murdered by player over and over again" is reaching to extreme. Cant see this in any game, certainly not in EVE wwhere the police system also works well. If the player is too foolish to venture to low sec space without friends and escort, its just his/her own fault not willing to learn the system.

It would be same in ESO, if one spot is good for crime, it will be eventually be full of players, best solution is to change place, we both know that those people are not everywhere.

We dont need to change the discussion to drama theater with extremes, every rational person knows that these extremes are also extremely rare.

I also dont get it why people dont want any exitement while doing crime, why is it so, that crime has to feel just like looting stuff? Getting profit is not good enough reason as in any game, the immersion is also a part of the whole and looting peoples pockets is not very exitement.

Why do we want to say these things over and over again? We will never go to any conclusion, we will not change ourt opinions, right? It is internet and people think they are entitled to their small opinion, just like i am entitled to my small opinion but stating these opinions over and over again is pointless and frustrating to both sides.

What we should do, is to find something in the midle, some more consequences to your side but not too much to totally break your gamestyle. If we want to cater to most amount of players, we need different playstyles and diverse option of different degrees of risk as well as different degrees of rewards proportional to the risk. Currently its just PVP and PVE, theres basically nothing in between them or if only PVE, its just killing mobs and looting stuff, good game also need different degrees of PVE for both the groups and solo players.

Becasue you're failing to understand that when you mix PvP and PvE IN ANY WAY, it causes Griefing.

And it will cause a flood of it.

And that would be the greatest possible death-knell for this game. The instant that it was implemented, you'd see the vast majority of players fleeing this game as if it were a plague ship pulling into harbor.

If you want a touch of PvP in your PvE, find a game that caters to that. But ESO is not that game, nor should it ever be.

Tapio75 · March 2017

I also wanted to say, that while i do not participate in PVP in the way i understand PVP (Player fighting other player), i do go to Cyrodil to explore and the exitement and risk of death other players bring to the journey is great. If you are smart, you do not have to be killed over and over again at all, you can simply hide from people. I have been playing from launch, i do not have any notable AP and my biggest PVP title is still volunteer. I have been killed by other players during the Cyrodil qadventures only less than 10 times.

I actually participated in war activities for couple of times as wwell but i dont count that as being relevant amount of PVP, naturally you gret killed over and over again in these zergs, just have to live with it.

In other games i did/do participate in PVP and all the problems i see in PVP are only caused by selfish people who want their own glory and dont want to do group effort, you can see this behhaviour at its worst in WOW unrated battlegrounds. Griefers can be dealt with when people get together, this can lead to epic battles between people like it was in Tarren mill/southshore in the old times. Griefers are only players, they can be dealt with by players if people can act together. Reporting wworks as well in some games as do ignore, you dont have to give griefers any target to grief upon, they get bored fast besides you have to also give litle understanding to them, they propably have inferiority issues in real life, they are estranged maybe, they just try to fill an empty space in their life feeling more powerful than other people, its better that it happens in virtual world rather than in real life.

Uriel_Nocturne · March 2017

Tapio75 wrote: »

I also wanted to say, that while i do not participate in PVP in the way i understand PVP (Player fighting other player), i do go to Cyrodil to explore and the exitement and risk of death other players bring to the journey is great. If you are smart, you do not have to be killed over and over again at all, you can simply hide from people. I have been playing from launch, i do not have any notable AP and my biggest PVP title is still volunteer. I have been killed by other players during the Cyrodil qadventures only less than 10 times.

I actually participated in war activities for couple of times as wwell but i dont count that as being relevant amount of PVP, naturally you gret killed over and over again in these zergs, just have to live with it.

In other games i did/do participate in PVP and all the problems i see in PVP are only caused by selfish people who want their own glory and dont want to do group effort, you can see this behhaviour at its worst in WOW unrated battlegrounds. Griefers can be dealt with when people get together, this can lead to epic battles between people like it was in Tarren mill/southshore in the old times. Griefers are only players, they can be dealt with by players if people can act together. Reporting wworks as well in some games as do ignore, you dont have to give griefers any target to grief upon, they get bored fast besides you have to also give litle understanding to them, they propably have inferiority issues in real life, they are estranged maybe, they just try to fill an empty space in their life feeling more powerful than other people, its better that it happens in virtual world rather than in real life.

I was right.

This post shows your complete disconnect from how Griefing in any type of open-world PvP happens, and how toxic it would be in ESO.

I'm done with this thread.

You can't have a conversation or debate with someone who doesn't have the capacity to see the other side of the argument.

Tapio75 · March 2017

@Uriel_Nocturne
Warcraft for example, has had mixed PVP/PVE from the launch, anyone can flag themselves to PVP. There is griefing, granted, but the game certainly is not dead or plagueship because even while people there as well talk about griefing everywhere and flood of it and its being death of WOW, its just that they have been victim of it more often than others and feels its everywhere while truth is that its minor problem in the whole game as oit is in any other game with such mixed playstyles.

Some people complain there, that they are forced on PVP when they accidentally attack someone who has PVP on for purpose of griefing or simply because they went too close to a guard. Truth here is, that everyone can avoid these accident by simply observing the surroundings and it really does not happen that much at all as people tend to feel it happens.

In EVE where everyone is "Forced" on PVP everywhere, the police system basically prevents the griefing, the griefing in high security zones is practicaklly non existent and in low security systems, it is expected as part of the gameplay. Players there also have security status, if it drops too low, you can not go to high security zones without being attacked by police. Systems from sec status 1 to 0 practically give good variety of risks versus better gain. In sec 1 theres practically no risk but rewards are also very small, in 0 systems, rewards are great, faction hardware, expensive special stuff drops but one cant go there if he/she is not willing to do it with people who know how to minimize the risk.

There are other games that strive with mixed playstyles that are certainly not dead too. The whole system is not allowing players free reign to practise their freedom. Good police system for one can basically prevent griefing effectively while still allowing smart people to steal and murtder.

But at this point, i think duels are enough PVP in open world, we could just improve on the guard sysrtem to make crime a bit more risky, it has no risks even without passives.

Tapio75 · March 2017

@Uriel_Nocturne
Im really trying to see your side but perphaps you could enlighten me? Could you tell me what is griefing in your own words so i can better understand what you mean?

srfrogg23 · March 2017

Tapio75 wrote: »

@Uriel_Nocturne
Im really trying to see your side but perphaps you could enlighten me? Could you tell me what is griefing in your own words so i can better understand what you mean?

Griefing in a nutshell is going out of your way to disrupt someone else's gameplay experience for little to no personal gain outside of your personal amusement.

People who do it just think it's fun to irritate other players.

Tapio75 · March 2017

I see. Then i count spamming abilities on people as some sort of griefing as well as zerg farming dolmens and quest areas as that disrupts my favored playstyle.

At least when griefing happens on some sort of PVP, there is option to fight back. with players who want to stop the griefers like has happened in Warcraft. A griefer comes to starter area to kill lowbies, when the word spreads, players of other faction come to slay the griefer. In extremely rare occasions, this happens in large scale where its just mayhem.

parkham · March 2017

I just want to play the latest Elder Scrolls game, and this is it. It also happens to be an MMO.

I don't want this game to be like EVE: Online or any other MMO. I want it be like the Elder Scrolls. So far, so good. If I want to read every quest dialog all by myself, I can. If I want to join up with someone else, I probably can, given some time.

If I want to PVP against other players - I can in any zone - if they're willing. If I want open PVP, I can go to Cyrodiil.

It's good enough the way it is (to me).

RE: risk vs reward: I can make loads more money running dungeons or farming (if I chose to do so) as opposed to stealing in any town.

srfrogg23 · March 2017

Tapio75 wrote: »

I see. Then i count spamming abilities on people as some sort of griefing as well as zerg farming dolmens and quest areas as that disrupts my favored playstyle.

At least when griefing happens on some sort of PVP, there is option to fight back. with players who want to stop the griefers like has happened in Warcraft. A griefer comes to starter area to kill lowbies, when the word spreads, players of other faction come to slay the griefer. In extremely rare occasions, this happens in large scale where its just mayhem.

Dolmens exist for the purposes of zerging. That's why there is a big spectacle when one starts up. To let all the players in the area know that it's starting so everyone will run to it for a big flashy scene of chaos and ability spamming.

I would think that would be why you would enjoy dolmens. But, if you think dolmen zerging is "griefing", and you think you can make some sort of case that all those people are "INTENTIONALLY disrupting YOUR gameplay experience", you can try reporting them. I'm betting you won't get any response though. They are playing the game in a legitimate way.

As far as the world-PvP dog-pile goes, yeah you can get that too - in Cyrodiil. That is what that zone is designed for. Cyrodiil is a world-PvP zone.

If you enjoy that style of content, why aren't you spending the bulk of your time in Cyrodiil? Why do you think the rest of the game needs to be turned into Cyrodiil?

apostate9 · March 2017

danno8 wrote: »

There would have to be risk for the person attacking the thief as well though right? How about if you lose, the thief takes a slice of your total gold (including gold you try to hide in your bank, no cheating now!) Or a random piece of gear that you are wearing?

You talk about balance, but did you think it would be balanced to have no consequences for a failed attempt to take out the thief/murderer?

Consequences for a failed arrest? The criminal would get AP and you wouldn't. If you succeed in bringing the miscreant to justice, you get AP, he gets no AP, his bounty is removed, his PVP flag is removed, and he can now rez having suffered no IRL harm, secure in the knowledge that ESO isn't ruined, and the snuggles brigade can calm down.

Fixed.

Tapio75 · March 2017

Why are you guys still stuck on the PVP part anyway? Perphaps you have not read all the posts here but i for one, have allready admitted couple of times that maybe addinhg PVP to justice system is a bad idea because it clearly offends so many players.

That does not mean however, that the Justice system cant be improved in terms of PVE. What i want it to be, is basically more ommersive. Most importantly in the part where NPC calls out for a guard and nothing happens, ever. Also some added NPC bounty hunters would be immersive, you murdered enough people, someone got angry to you and hired someone to kill you or collect the value of stolen items, perphaps someone performed the dark sacrament and got a Dark Brotherhood assassin to hunt you down. Not all of these NPC bounty hunters and assassins should be trash either but something you need to really fight against.

unjulationb16_ESO · March 2017

One of the quickest ways of making good money for me

Go round pickpocketing and then killing them and robing them, double the rewards and they respawn quickly

What's not to like

Village genocide, can't beat it......

bulbousb16_ESO · March 2017

Khami wrote: »

Why should I have to PvP over PvE actions? The logic on that doesn't even compute correctly. PvE actions should never have PvP consequences. If that was part of the game, I would not have returned to it in December last year.

Wow. I am speechless. Are you serious?

If you are a member of the Aldmeri Dominion, and you are standing amongst a group of Aldmeri NPC soliders, and a Daggerfall Covenant player walks up and kills them as part of his mission, are you seriously telling me that "logic doesn't compute" that you should be able to intervene?

People who never want to participate in PvP are making too much distinction between players and NPCs. This is a role-playing game, and it shouldn't matter in the slightest whether you are attacked by a human mind or an AI.

srfrogg23 · March 2017

Tapio75 wrote: »

Why are you guys still stuck on the PVP part anyway? Perphaps you have not read all the posts here but i for one, have allready admitted couple of times that maybe addinhg PVP to justice system is a bad idea because it clearly offends so many players.

That does not mean however, that the Justice system cant be improved in terms of PVE. What i want it to be, is basically more ommersive. Most importantly in the part where NPC calls out for a guard and nothing happens, ever. Also some added NPC bounty hunters would be immersive, you murdered enough people, someone got angry to you and hired someone to kill you or collect the value of stolen items, perphaps someone performed the dark sacrament and got a Dark Brotherhood assassin to hunt you down. Not all of these NPC bounty hunters and assassins should be trash either but something you need to really fight against.

The most "immersive" way to improve the system would be for NPCs and players alike to stay dead permanently. Granted Tamriel would be completely empty in a few days, but at least killing the NPCs and players would actually mean something.

Then we could watch as NPC cops cordon off sections of the game while they perform a murder investigation. And when the murderer is caught, they will have to log in every day for several hours a day to attend their trial. Their character can be sentenced to an 8x8 prison cell forever or be executed for their crimes.

Oh and other players should be drafted for jury duty so they have to do the same thing! And, if people don't call off work or get a babysitter for their kids so they can log in and get to the courtroom, they should all be held in contempt!

--IMMERSION!!!--

Or, we can acknowledge that real life sucks and we're happy that NPCs aren't real people. They do respawn, and they're not actually being killed because they never really existed in the first place.

You're not actually committing murder and the in game consequences for your behavior are consistent with the gravity of your behavior in the game.

purple-magicb16_ESO · March 2017

Lol! I've been attacked by npcs for accidentally stealing a radish! Community justice has some harsh penalties man!

bulbousb16_ESO · March 2017

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

Becasue you're failing to understand that when you mix PvP and PvE IN ANY WAY, it causes Griefing.

I am assuming this comment is drawn from very limited MMO experience. Many games have implemented excellent mechanics that allow PvE and PvP to overlap, and at the same time minimize griefing. Bear in mind that death in ESO is already almost totally an insignificant experience. It costs you a soul gem and a couple of seconds.

Let's take the worst-case scenario, where you perform an action (such as attacking NPCs of an opposing faction) that temporarily flags you as attackable by players. Some horrible griefer ganks you!

Such a tragedy! Players will flee the game in droves because of this life-altering detriment to their playstyle!

Or, in real life, you raise yourself (having lost your temporarily-attackable status) and you carry on.

This post shows your complete disconnect from how Griefing in any type of open-world PvP happens, and how toxic it would be in ESO.

I'm done with this thread.

You can't have a conversation or debate with someone who doesn't have the capacity to see the other side of the argument.

I do believe this summarizes your side of the discussion very well.

SFDB · March 2017

Tapio75 wrote: »

Griefers can be dealt with when people get together, this can lead to epic battles between people like it was in Tarren mill/southshore in the old times. Griefers are only players, they can be dealt with by players if people can act together.

Let's assume this, and while we're at it, let's assume that a chicken is a sphere of uniform density.

Uriel_Nocturne · March 2017

bulbousb16_ESO wrote: »

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

Becasue you're failing to understand that when you mix PvP and PvE IN ANY WAY, it causes Griefing.

I am assuming this comment is drawn from very limited MMO experience. Many games have implemented excellent mechanics that allow PvE and PvP to overlap, and at the same time minimize griefing. Bear in mind that death in ESO is already almost totally an insignificant experience. It costs you a soul gem and a couple of seconds.

Let's take the worst-case scenario, where you perform an action (such as attacking NPCs of an opposing faction) that temporarily flags you as attackable by players. Some horrible griefer ganks you!

Such a tragedy! Players will flee the game in droves because of this life-altering detriment to their playstyle!

Or, in real life, you raise yourself (having lost your temporarily-attackable status) and you carry on.

This post shows your complete disconnect from how Griefing in any type of open-world PvP happens, and how toxic it would be in ESO.

I'm done with this thread.

You can't have a conversation or debate with someone who doesn't have the capacity to see the other side of the argument.

I do believe this summarizes your side of the discussion very well.

Not hardly.

1) I've been playing MMORPG's since their inception, which is longer than most people playing this game have been alive.

2) I've played Ultima Online when it was purely Open World PvP (which it was from the day it launched), and the game almost died and had the light's shut off within six (6) months. They compensated by opening up a PvE only server, and within a couple weeks, 95% of the games population moved to the PvE server, and the Open World PvP server never even saw a fraction of the population that the PvE server ever had.

3) And actually, though you take some kind of perverse joy in mocking what people will/will not "flee the game for", it's been proven many, many times over in MMORPG's over the last 25+ years of the genre's existence. The VAST majority of MMO Gamers like PvE and PvE only, and have all-but killed (or outright killed MMO's) by leaving the game when Open World PvP is introduced.

Now, there's several MMO's that cater to Open World PvP. But they make no mistake and clearly communicate that Open World PvP is a core design of their game. EVE online, I believe Black Desert Online, and a couple others. But those MMO's are small, niche MMO's compared to... pretty much every other MMORPG in the genre, with populations far below purely PvE MMO's.

People also keep bringing up WoW in this discussion and how WoW has a PvP-Flag toggle. WoW and their PvP toggle is not a good comparison in any way. Because let's say that ESO implements the PvP toggle option; you'd have +95% of the game population immediately set the toggle to "PvP Off", and thus there would be so few players with the toggle set to "PvP On", that none of the "Player Justice guards" would have anyone to hunt down. It would make moot, the very point to putting such a system in the game anyway.

I do believe this summarizes your side of the discussion very well.

You say this, but completely ignore the other posts and comments I've made where I've admitted that I've played plenty of Open World PvP MMO's. It's horrible in most every one of them, and they don't host NEAR the populations of PvE MMO's.

So I very clearly see the side that the OP is taking; and my rebuttal and statement are that he doesn't have the capability to comprehend that the vast majority of MMO Gamers do not want to be griefed when simply trying to fill out the requirements for a Quest objective. So my statement still has all of it's merits, and your snarky quips aren't "turning the tables" on me like you had hoped.