I cannot for the life of me get my mdk to work this patch. The nerf to desert rose was a massive blow and everything else I try just doesn't compare. I either have good damage and no sustain or good sustain and no damage. Also I'm not sure what it is but I feel like I'm dying alot easier in homestead.

PandaIsAPotato wrote: »

Calboy wrote: »

good damage and no sustain...

This is the only thing you can strive for on a Magicka Dragonknight anymore, our sustain is shot to ***. Obviously don't sacrifice all of it but don't try to increase it any more than normal, it's just "there" and it's why I tell almost everyone that wants to play mDK to get a good Templar buddy running Luminous Shards and Energy Orb for your sustain, it's effective, the heals and damage the Templar can provide pretty much doubles everything you can do, and provided you have good DKs and a good Templar, you're legitimately unkillable unless you get zerged.

I sat inside an enemy keep for probably 2hrs against 8-12 constant EP healing 2 mDKs, granted, it took a while to effectively wipe them and give us breathing room. But we only died because one of the DKs got a little to trigger happy and leaped into the upper keep leaving us to low on damage and CC to outlast. Kept 2-3 Energy Orbs up the entire time, Breath of Life when needed. Dropped Luminous if one of the Dks called for stam/mag. GG EZ.

TL;DR, don't solo as a DK, ever. Get another DK or Templar at minimum.

We all know that being carried by a pocket healer makes any class or build trivial lol. Many in this thread want to build to be effective both independently and within a group.

Lexxypwns wrote: »

psychotic13 wrote: »

Glory wrote: »

PandaIsAPotato wrote: »

Calboy wrote: »

good damage and no sustain...

This is the only thing you can strive for on a Magicka Dragonknight anymore, our sustain is shot to ***. Obviously don't sacrifice all of it but don't try to increase it any more than normal, it's just "there" and it's why I tell almost everyone that wants to play mDK to get a good Templar buddy running Luminous Shards and Energy Orb for your sustain, it's effective, the heals and damage the Templar can provide pretty much doubles everything you can do, and provided you have good DKs and a good Templar, you're legitimately unkillable unless you get zerged.

I sat inside an enemy keep for probably 2hrs against 8-12 constant EP healing 2 mDKs, granted, it took a while to effectively wipe them and give us breathing room. But we only died because one of the DKs got a little to trigger happy and leaped into the upper keep leaving us to low on damage and CC to outlast. Kept 2-3 Energy Orbs up the entire time, Breath of Life when needed. Dropped Luminous if one of the Dks called for stam/mag. GG EZ.

TL;DR, don't solo as a DK, ever. Get another DK or Templar at minimum.

We all know that being carried by a pocket healer makes any class or build trivial lol. Many in this thread want to build to be effective both independently and within a group.

This, who want a healer lol

Most accessible solo build has gotta be 5 seducer 5 BSW 2 Skoria. Damage and sustain, you still have limited burst tho

The set up i use is similar, rattlecage over BSW and Grothdarr over skoria (skoria is better for 1v1 though)

I feel I do well enough and only been playing this class for a few weeks, although it lacks huge burst it does have insane pressure, and ferocious leap is good to execute.

Has anyone tried to the new chains? Does it still not work due to issues with height or does it just suck?

psychotic13 wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

psychotic13 wrote: »

Glory wrote: »

PandaIsAPotato wrote: »

Calboy wrote: »

good damage and no sustain...

This is the only thing you can strive for on a Magicka Dragonknight anymore, our sustain is shot to ***. Obviously don't sacrifice all of it but don't try to increase it any more than normal, it's just "there" and it's why I tell almost everyone that wants to play mDK to get a good Templar buddy running Luminous Shards and Energy Orb for your sustain, it's effective, the heals and damage the Templar can provide pretty much doubles everything you can do, and provided you have good DKs and a good Templar, you're legitimately unkillable unless you get zerged.

I sat inside an enemy keep for probably 2hrs against 8-12 constant EP healing 2 mDKs, granted, it took a while to effectively wipe them and give us breathing room. But we only died because one of the DKs got a little to trigger happy and leaped into the upper keep leaving us to low on damage and CC to outlast. Kept 2-3 Energy Orbs up the entire time, Breath of Life when needed. Dropped Luminous if one of the Dks called for stam/mag. GG EZ.

TL;DR, don't solo as a DK, ever. Get another DK or Templar at minimum.

We all know that being carried by a pocket healer makes any class or build trivial lol. Many in this thread want to build to be effective both independently and within a group.

This, who want a healer lol

Most accessible solo build has gotta be 5 seducer 5 BSW 2 Skoria. Damage and sustain, you still have limited burst tho

The set up i use is similar, rattlecage over BSW and Grothdarr over skoria (skoria is better for 1v1 though)

I feel I do well enough and only been playing this class for a few weeks, although it lacks huge burst it does have insane pressure, and ferocious leap is good to execute.

Has anyone tried to the new chains? Does it still not work due to issues with height or does it just suck?

I keep hearing Rattlecage thrown around, but wouldn't Kagnarec's Hope be stronger? I mean, unless whatever you put in that slot that you aren't using for Major Sorcery gives you more DPS and utility than Kag's, it just doesn't seem worth it to me. Especially if you're running Destro. Seriously, Molten Armaments can make a fully charged Inferno staff attack hit for, like, 20k damage with the right buffs.

On another note, I have tried Chains. I really like it, actually. It seems to work more often than not, for sure. I had more problems with the range than with the unreliability. It certainly has great synergy with *gasp* Eye of the Storm + Grothdarr setups.

Lexxypwns wrote: »

EldritchPenguin wrote: »

psychotic13 wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

psychotic13 wrote: »

Glory wrote: »

PandaIsAPotato wrote: »

Calboy wrote: »

good damage and no sustain...

This is the only thing you can strive for on a Magicka Dragonknight anymore, our sustain is shot to ***. Obviously don't sacrifice all of it but don't try to increase it any more than normal, it's just "there" and it's why I tell almost everyone that wants to play mDK to get a good Templar buddy running Luminous Shards and Energy Orb for your sustain, it's effective, the heals and damage the Templar can provide pretty much doubles everything you can do, and provided you have good DKs and a good Templar, you're legitimately unkillable unless you get zerged.

I sat inside an enemy keep for probably 2hrs against 8-12 constant EP healing 2 mDKs, granted, it took a while to effectively wipe them and give us breathing room. But we only died because one of the DKs got a little to trigger happy and leaped into the upper keep leaving us to low on damage and CC to outlast. Kept 2-3 Energy Orbs up the entire time, Breath of Life when needed. Dropped Luminous if one of the Dks called for stam/mag. GG EZ.

TL;DR, don't solo as a DK, ever. Get another DK or Templar at minimum.

We all know that being carried by a pocket healer makes any class or build trivial lol. Many in this thread want to build to be effective both independently and within a group.

This, who want a healer lol

Most accessible solo build has gotta be 5 seducer 5 BSW 2 Skoria. Damage and sustain, you still have limited burst tho

The set up i use is similar, rattlecage over BSW and Grothdarr over skoria (skoria is better for 1v1 though)

I feel I do well enough and only been playing this class for a few weeks, although it lacks huge burst it does have insane pressure, and ferocious leap is good to execute.

Has anyone tried to the new chains? Does it still not work due to issues with height or does it just suck?

I keep hearing Rattlecage thrown around, but wouldn't Kagnarec's Hope be stronger? I mean, unless whatever you put in that slot that you aren't using for Major Sorcery gives you more DPS and utility than Kag's, it just doesn't seem worth it to me. Especially if you're running Destro. Seriously, Molten Armaments can make a fully charged Inferno staff attack hit for, like, 20k damage with the right buffs.

On another note, I have tried Chains. I really like it, actually. It seems to work more often than not, for sure. I had more problems with the range than with the unreliability. It certainly has great synergy with *gasp* Eye of the Storm + Grothdarr setups.

Don't believe the hype, rattlecage is a bad set. Kags and Julianos are both better as is BSW. Take your pick between entropy or igneous weapons, both are highly efficient skills and trigger multiple Passives. Rattlecage alone isn't all that much damage, but since it gives no sustain you need to seek some amount of that in your other sets...

That's what I thought. I've been running VoM looking for more Grothdarr helms (need Light Impen) and eyeballing the Rattlecage pieces I was picking up, but it just didn't look as good as everyone says it is. People say DK's are cramped for ability slots, but I've found that it isn't actually that bad.

Lexxypwns wrote: »

EldritchPenguin wrote: »

psychotic13 wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

psychotic13 wrote: »

Glory wrote: »

PandaIsAPotato wrote: »

Calboy wrote: »

good damage and no sustain...

This is the only thing you can strive for on a Magicka Dragonknight anymore, our sustain is shot to ***. Obviously don't sacrifice all of it but don't try to increase it any more than normal, it's just "there" and it's why I tell almost everyone that wants to play mDK to get a good Templar buddy running Luminous Shards and Energy Orb for your sustain, it's effective, the heals and damage the Templar can provide pretty much doubles everything you can do, and provided you have good DKs and a good Templar, you're legitimately unkillable unless you get zerged.

I sat inside an enemy keep for probably 2hrs against 8-12 constant EP healing 2 mDKs, granted, it took a while to effectively wipe them and give us breathing room. But we only died because one of the DKs got a little to trigger happy and leaped into the upper keep leaving us to low on damage and CC to outlast. Kept 2-3 Energy Orbs up the entire time, Breath of Life when needed. Dropped Luminous if one of the Dks called for stam/mag. GG EZ.

TL;DR, don't solo as a DK, ever. Get another DK or Templar at minimum.

We all know that being carried by a pocket healer makes any class or build trivial lol. Many in this thread want to build to be effective both independently and within a group.

This, who want a healer lol

Most accessible solo build has gotta be 5 seducer 5 BSW 2 Skoria. Damage and sustain, you still have limited burst tho

The set up i use is similar, rattlecage over BSW and Grothdarr over skoria (skoria is better for 1v1 though)

I feel I do well enough and only been playing this class for a few weeks, although it lacks huge burst it does have insane pressure, and ferocious leap is good to execute.

Has anyone tried to the new chains? Does it still not work due to issues with height or does it just suck?

I keep hearing Rattlecage thrown around, but wouldn't Kagnarec's Hope be stronger? I mean, unless whatever you put in that slot that you aren't using for Major Sorcery gives you more DPS and utility than Kag's, it just doesn't seem worth it to me. Especially if you're running Destro. Seriously, Molten Armaments can make a fully charged Inferno staff attack hit for, like, 20k damage with the right buffs.

On another note, I have tried Chains. I really like it, actually. It seems to work more often than not, for sure. I had more problems with the range than with the unreliability. It certainly has great synergy with *gasp* Eye of the Storm + Grothdarr setups.

Don't believe the hype, rattlecage is a bad set. Kags and Julianos are both better as is BSW. Take your pick between entropy or igneous weapons, both are highly efficient skills and trigger multiple Passives. Rattlecage alone isn't all that much damage, but since it gives no sustain you need to seek some amount of that in your other sets...

I don't really agree here. I think the added flexibility of an extra slot in a mDK bar is excellent.

I don't like Kags anymore. It is almost strictly inferior to the new Black Rose, excepting that it is easy to craft weapons.

Anyone try out alteration mastery? 5 piece states reduce all ability cost by 6 %

2 items) Adds 129 Magicka Recovery

(3 items) Adds 129 Magicka Recovery

(4 items) Adds 688 Spell Critical

(5 items) Reduces the cost of all of your abilities by 6%.

Does that include dodge, blocking, mag and ult?

I might try that set with burning spellweave with tri stat glyphs, dual wield and s/b

Lexxypwns wrote: »

EldritchPenguin wrote: »

psychotic13 wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

psychotic13 wrote: »

Glory wrote: »

PandaIsAPotato wrote: »

Calboy wrote: »

good damage and no sustain...

This is the only thing you can strive for on a Magicka Dragonknight anymore, our sustain is shot to ***. Obviously don't sacrifice all of it but don't try to increase it any more than normal, it's just "there" and it's why I tell almost everyone that wants to play mDK to get a good Templar buddy running Luminous Shards and Energy Orb for your sustain, it's effective, the heals and damage the Templar can provide pretty much doubles everything you can do, and provided you have good DKs and a good Templar, you're legitimately unkillable unless you get zerged.

I sat inside an enemy keep for probably 2hrs against 8-12 constant EP healing 2 mDKs, granted, it took a while to effectively wipe them and give us breathing room. But we only died because one of the DKs got a little to trigger happy and leaped into the upper keep leaving us to low on damage and CC to outlast. Kept 2-3 Energy Orbs up the entire time, Breath of Life when needed. Dropped Luminous if one of the Dks called for stam/mag. GG EZ.

TL;DR, don't solo as a DK, ever. Get another DK or Templar at minimum.

We all know that being carried by a pocket healer makes any class or build trivial lol. Many in this thread want to build to be effective both independently and within a group.

This, who want a healer lol

Most accessible solo build has gotta be 5 seducer 5 BSW 2 Skoria. Damage and sustain, you still have limited burst tho

The set up i use is similar, rattlecage over BSW and Grothdarr over skoria (skoria is better for 1v1 though)

I feel I do well enough and only been playing this class for a few weeks, although it lacks huge burst it does have insane pressure, and ferocious leap is good to execute.

Has anyone tried to the new chains? Does it still not work due to issues with height or does it just suck?

I keep hearing Rattlecage thrown around, but wouldn't Kagnarec's Hope be stronger? I mean, unless whatever you put in that slot that you aren't using for Major Sorcery gives you more DPS and utility than Kag's, it just doesn't seem worth it to me. Especially if you're running Destro. Seriously, Molten Armaments can make a fully charged Inferno staff attack hit for, like, 20k damage with the right buffs.

On another note, I have tried Chains. I really like it, actually. It seems to work more often than not, for sure. I had more problems with the range than with the unreliability. It certainly has great synergy with *gasp* Eye of the Storm + Grothdarr setups.

Don't believe the hype, rattlecage is a bad set. Kags and Julianos are both better as is BSW. Take your pick between entropy or igneous weapons, both are highly efficient skills and trigger multiple Passives. Rattlecage alone isn't all that much damage, but since it gives no sustain you need to seek some amount of that in your other sets...

I thought the same thing till I tried it, it really is well suited for a DK, don't knock it till you tried it.

Plus like already mentioned, the extra skill slot is really beneficial cause mDKs have so many skills.

Glory wrote: »

Emmagoldman wrote: »

Anyone try out alteration mastery? 5 piece states reduce all ability cost by 6 %

2 items) Adds 129 Magicka Recovery

(3 items) Adds 129 Magicka Recovery

(4 items) Adds 688 Spell Critical

(5 items) Reduces the cost of all of your abilities by 6%.

Does that include dodge, blocking, mag and ult?

I might try that set with burning spellweave with tri stat glyphs, dual wield and s/b

Alteration mastery reduces ability costs, ultimate, dodge roll, and break free. Not blocking.

IMO it seems better than seducer depending on your playstyle if you're purely considering sustain. Not my cup of tea in general, but an increasingly popular set.

I knew it worked for ultimate, but for dodge roll and break free? They're not classed as abilitys?

PainfulFAFA wrote: »

Ill be uploading my mdk light armor 1vX solo build soon
No sustain problems just getting zerged and not being able to escape as ezpz as stam is the issue

Well of course you should have no sustain problems, in 5 light you get an extra 20% regen and 15% cost reduction! I would like to see how many people you can 1vX in light Armor though, could never make it work on my DK

Sharee wrote: »

Moglijuana wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Currently i am playing a light armor mDK built around flame heavy attacks. 5kag/5sun/kena shoulder. Sustain is no issue(main offensive ability restores resource) and damage is great (i can "one-shot" most players with full-charged heavy+stone giant+leap).

Only issue is survivability when outnumbered, but honestly it wasn't all that great in heavy either(at least not against competent players) and now i can usually take a couple with me at least.

Switch Kags for Elegant. Thank me later . I've been using it after playing around with 5 Heavy Seducer/BSW/Bloodspawn and it is much more enjoyable when you can two shot people. I enjoy the normal tanky playstyle but while Outnumbered, you're going to die anyways. So, you might as well blow some people up on the way down like you said

Elegant is a bit too narrowly focused for my liking. It would result in higher basic attacks no doubt, but i am also using stone giant/leap/dots/WoF/heals, which benefit from the kag flat spellpower, and my HP is already as low as i feel comfortable to lose the bonus.

I might give it a try at some point tho, if i get my hands on a sharpened staff.

Yea it's a bit niche, I have mostly defensive skills on my bar besides Whip/StoneGiant/Burning Embers/Leap and rely on weaving for a lot of my dps. It's basically an entire play style dedicated to CCi'ng quickly & lining people up for a heavy destro =P. But the dps from weaving in close combat is insane if the heavys do miss. I could probably try Sun/Kags too and get some higher whips. I'll try that out tonight for no CP .

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Yeah, a skill slot is great, but what are you gonna slot, really?

Is wings better than either the mages guild passives or bonus stam sustain from helping hands? Like, what do you really find to be a more effective use of a skill slot? I really respect you as one of the absolute best mDKs, one of the few who stuck to it, and I'm genuinely curious what skills you find to be so much more efficient that its worth giving up the damage from BSW or the sustain from a sustain set. If anyone could convince me it'd be you or @DKsUnite, but I really just can't see being so inefficient in making a build. Please, teach me.

Up til this point I haven't heard a really solid argument for rattlecage on any build, tbh.

I appreciate your faith in my ability, haha! I'm not really that good, just stubborn.

First, an answer to your questions about RattleCage:
1. Here is the standard mDK layout: Petrify, Whip, Talons --- Mist, Volatile, Igneous, Coag. That leaves three flex spots. I don't see mDK killing anything intelligent without Embers + Engulfing. Now you're down to one, choosing most likely from: Inhale, Wings, Entropy. They are all solid choices. I don't think that there is a particular correct answer.
2. Without any other sets, the Rattle Cage set is worth 129*2 + 100 + (1335+129*2 + 100)*0.2 = 696.6 spell dmg. That's pretty good.
3. Opportunity cost of GCD. If you don't have to cast Entropy, you have the option of casting something else. That is important, in my opinion, especially for mDK.

Adjacent, but related, rant:

mDK really isnt that good, even with the recent changes. There are some core class challenges that really haven't been addressed as the meta has shifted over the last year. I will be the first to admit that I said before the patch that all a mDK really need was a decent heal. Well, now we have it and its not really enough. So let's break this down:
1. Over the eighteen months, PvE DPS has gone from ~20k to >50k due to a confluence of factors: more CP, better gear sets, damage skill increases. Character health has not doubled to match. These damage increases have spilled over into Cyrodiil.
2. mDK has no defensive mechanic to allow it to either: (1) escape, or (2) stand its ground. The damage reduction benefit of RNG skills like Evasion and mobility skills like cloak and Streak are completely nonlinear. Dynamic ultimate + Battle Roar used to be this mechanic. Mist Form has been the recent replacement, but lets face it Mist Form isn't going to save you from a zerg. This is why most mDK players block.
3. mDK has no viable gap closer. Chains is still ***. Essentially, there is absolutely no reason for a person to die to a mDK in open world combat. Every other class except for a mTemp can simply run away! Granted, this reality doesn't actually take place because so many players get tunnel vision. But consider it this way: a mDK can never, ever run from a fight unless the other player lets him. That is why mDKs are almost always pigeon-holed into semi-defensive builds.
4. mDK passives are absolute utter garbage, excepting for two: Battle Roar and Helping Hands. They need to be updated to be relevant in the modern meta.
5. Burst is king... and mDK has no burst. Vigor by itself can heal for amounts equivalent to ticks of Embers + Engulfing. Watch videos of Rhage or any other competent stam player. The amount of damage they can produce is one or two GCDs is outrageous compared to mDK. This is a huge disadvantage in PvP.
6. Finally, I tend to agree with Panda. You're not really going to kill anything with assurance unless you're 100% specced into damage.

Anyway, this all sounds like complaining. Don't misunderstand me: mDK is in a much better place post Homestead. Its viable now, but not super strong. Dynamic Ultimate would really put mDK back where it should be... but I don't think that will ever happen. So I think the Devs should consider Major and Minor heroism on passives or skills. This is why I generally favor Tava's Favor (haha).