Magicka Nightblades, STILL TOO WEAK!!!!

Attackopsn · February 2017

Hi everyone! We recently got Homestead on console, and with the new changes not doing enough for this class, I decided to create a video! In this video I will be discussing some of the issues with the mnb rotation that make it fall so much behind other ranged dps. I also discuss some of the reasons that even if msorc did less dps than mnb, we would still need an msorc for minor prophecy while the opposite scenario would not hold for a mnb. This causes them to lose nearly all viability for end game trials groups. I hope you find this informative and this helps the developers see why these have disappeared from the end game community!

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=i1-um6ONaHE

Paraflex · February 2017

Learn to play mag classes in general are top dps this patch mag nbs are fine

Attackopsn · February 2017

Paraflex wrote: »

Learn to play mag classes in general are top dps this patch mag nbs are fine

Sometimes they really need to give us back the lol button.

OutLaw_Nynx · February 2017

This makes me sad. Literally all my characters I have are slowly becoming useless due to nerfs.

Autolycus · February 2017

So you posted a video with magblade parses that beat every stam class I've seen so far except stamblade, although the Sorc parse you posted beat that one too (37.5k). Where's the part where magblades are in a bad spot?

binho · February 2017

Paraflex wrote: »

Learn to play mag classes in general are top dps this patch mag nbs are fine

TROLL ALERT!!! TROLL ALERT! TROLL ALERT!!!

Attackopsn · February 2017

Autolycus wrote: »

So you posted a video with magblade parses that beat every stam class I've seen so far except stamblade, although the Sorc parse you posted beat that one too (37.5k). Where's the part where magblades are in a bad spot?

Stam is in a worse spot, didn't think I needed to talk about that since it's pretty much been already said by quite a few others. Would rather stay on the topic of mnb for this thread though.

Autolycus · February 2017

Attackopsn wrote: »

Autolycus wrote: »

So you posted a video with magblade parses that beat every stam class I've seen so far except stamblade, although the Sorc parse you posted beat that one too (37.5k). Where's the part where magblades are in a bad spot?

Stam is in a worse spot, didn't think I needed to talk about that since it's pretty much been already said by quite a few others

Okay, that doesn't answer my question though. Please explain to me how this video evidence demonstrates a "weak" class.

I note several places where you're clipping DoTs and missing light attack weaves, your sustain could improve too. My point is not to be overly critical and nit-pick over minute details. I'm not stupid enough to think that clipping a DoT results in a 3k disparity. But I'm also quite familiar with the rotation and think it can be improved to allow for better sustain and DoT uptime, and that it will improve your parse. The parse you post here is not weak, that's my point. So what if Sorcs are a little higher?

MythicEmperor · February 2017

I've already abandoned hope for my magblade main. I rerolled him to a sorc, and with the exact same gear, he does 6-8k more DPS.

Attackopsn · February 2017

Autolycus wrote: »

Attackopsn wrote: »

Autolycus wrote: »

So you posted a video with magblade parses that beat every stam class I've seen so far except stamblade, although the Sorc parse you posted beat that one too (37.5k). Where's the part where magblades are in a bad spot?

Stam is in a worse spot, didn't think I needed to talk about that since it's pretty much been already said by quite a few others

Okay, that doesn't answer my question though. Please explain to me how this video evidence demonstrates a "weak" class.

I note several places where you're clipping DoTs and missing light attack weaves, your sustain could improve too. My point is not to be overly critical and nit-pick over minute details. I'm not stupid enough to think that clipping a DoT results in a 3k disparity. But I'm also quite familiar with the rotation and think it can be improved to allow for better sustain and DoT uptime, and that it will improve your parse. The parse you post here is not weak, that's my point. So what if Sorcs are a little higher?

Minor Berserk is given by combat prayer in raids, pets single target dps here from its pulses are aoe in addition to mnb not providing any competitively relevant utility. Considering the 8% difference, the 3k is a lot, especially since the sorc is getting way better aoe. So it does matter, because they are worse than this class in every area, and they do not compensate in any way to the group, while sorcs are giving the group better minor vulnerability uptime and minor prophecy.

Oreyn_Bearclaw · February 2017

Paraflex wrote: »

Learn to play mag classes in general are top dps this patch mag nbs are fine

If you believe that, you do not understand how end game works.

OP, I agree 100%. While magic nightblades are certainly able to pull competitve DPS in a vacuum (i got a buddy that pulls 50k on his no problem), you will work twice as hard as a sorc, and provide nothing to the group. If you are looking for an easy toon to pug 4 man dungeons with, they are fine. If you are looking for a competitive toon for trials, there is no reason to run a NB over a Sorc, period.

I have also posted many times about merciless. The skill looks great, but it has two huge flaws. First, it provides a completely redundant buff to combat prayer. Any good raid should be giving you this already. Second, it takes two globals to proc the bow. In other words, the bow actually hits half as hard as the damage report from a rotation standpoint, because you sacrifice two globals to fire it.

Autolycus · February 2017

Attackopsn wrote: »

Autolycus wrote: »

Attackopsn wrote: »

Autolycus wrote: »

So you posted a video with magblade parses that beat every stam class I've seen so far except stamblade, although the Sorc parse you posted beat that one too (37.5k). Where's the part where magblades are in a bad spot?

Stam is in a worse spot, didn't think I needed to talk about that since it's pretty much been already said by quite a few others

Okay, that doesn't answer my question though. Please explain to me how this video evidence demonstrates a "weak" class.

I note several places where you're clipping DoTs and missing light attack weaves, your sustain could improve too. My point is not to be overly critical and nit-pick over minute details. I'm not stupid enough to think that clipping a DoT results in a 3k disparity. But I'm also quite familiar with the rotation and think it can be improved to allow for better sustain and DoT uptime, and that it will improve your parse. The parse you post here is not weak, that's my point. So what if Sorcs are a little higher?

Minor Berserk is given by combat prayer in raids, pets single target dps here from its pulses are aoe. In addition to mnb not providing any competitively relevant utility. Considering the 8% difference, the 3k is a lot, especially since the sorc is getting way better aoe.

Yeah..... alright. I don't believe you're entirely wrong (that was not my point), but point deflected twice in a row = move on to a different discussion.

Strider_Roshin · February 2017

Nightblades as a whole are in a bad spot.

Attackopsn · February 2017

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Paraflex wrote: »

Learn to play mag classes in general are top dps this patch mag nbs are fine

If you believe that, you do not understand how end game works.

OP, I agree 100%. While magic nightblades are certainly able to pull competitve DPS in a vacuum (i got a buddy that pulls 50k on his no problem), you will work twice as hard as a sorc, and provide nothing to the group. If you are looking for an easy toon to pug 4 man dungeons with, they are fine. If you are looking for a competitive toon for trials, there is no reason to run a NB over a Sorc, period.

I have also posted many times about merciless. The skill looks great, but it has two huge flaws. First, it provides a completely redundant buff to combat prayer. Any good raid should be giving you this already. Second, it takes two globals to proc the bow. In other words, the bow actually hits half as hard as the damage report from a rotation standpoint, because you sacrifice two globals to fire it.

The minor berserk is kind of nice still since it guarantees uptime, the worst part is the recasting. 100% agree , there just isn't any reason to bring these into raids if that player can also play msorc.

Attackopsn · February 2017

Autolycus wrote: »

Attackopsn wrote: »

Autolycus wrote: »

Attackopsn wrote: »

Autolycus wrote: »

So you posted a video with magblade parses that beat every stam class I've seen so far except stamblade, although the Sorc parse you posted beat that one too (37.5k). Where's the part where magblades are in a bad spot?

Stam is in a worse spot, didn't think I needed to talk about that since it's pretty much been already said by quite a few others

Okay, that doesn't answer my question though. Please explain to me how this video evidence demonstrates a "weak" class.

I note several places where you're clipping DoTs and missing light attack weaves, your sustain could improve too. My point is not to be overly critical and nit-pick over minute details. I'm not stupid enough to think that clipping a DoT results in a 3k disparity. But I'm also quite familiar with the rotation and think it can be improved to allow for better sustain and DoT uptime, and that it will improve your parse. The parse you post here is not weak, that's my point. So what if Sorcs are a little higher?

Minor Berserk is given by combat prayer in raids, pets single target dps here from its pulses are aoe. In addition to mnb not providing any competitively relevant utility. Considering the 8% difference, the 3k is a lot, especially since the sorc is getting way better aoe.

Yeah..... alright. I don't believe you're entirely wrong (that was not my point), but point deflected twice in a row = move on to a different discussion.

Said very simply, the class is weak because it does everything worse than its only competitor. There is no value in this class for an end game raiding guild.

Tommy_The_Gun · February 2017

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Paraflex wrote: »

Learn to play mag classes in general are top dps this patch mag nbs are fine

If you believe that, you do not understand how end game works.

OP, I agree 100%. While magic nightblades are certainly able to pull competitve DPS in a vacuum (i got a buddy that pulls 50k on his no problem), you will work twice as hard as a sorc, and provide nothing to the group. If you are looking for an easy toon to pug 4 man dungeons with, they are fine. If you are looking for a competitive toon for trials, there is no reason to run a NB over a Sorc, period.

I have also posted many times about merciless. The skill looks great, but it has two huge flaws. First, it provides a completely redundant buff to combat prayer. Any good raid should be giving you this already. Second, it takes two globals to proc the bow. In other words, the bow actually hits half as hard as the damage report from a rotation standpoint, because you sacrifice two globals to fire it.

The only good way you can play magicka NB in a trial is probably a sap tank.. but I am not sure if this is still a valid type of build (at least it was some patches ago).

Rohamad_Ali · February 2017

It's not easy to master and since I haven't yet mastered Magblade I'm not going to say they can't be really good . I'm just learning , like most classes , I get pigeon holed into certain builds to be effective . With that said , I would like to see more equipment to help diversify the class . Stamina seems to still have more sets with bigger punch .

Oreyn_Bearclaw · February 2017

Autolycus wrote: »

So you posted a video with magblade parses that beat every stam class I've seen so far except stamblade, although the Sorc parse you posted beat that one too (37.5k). Where's the part where magblades are in a bad spot?

It's not that they are in a bad spot in a vacuum on a DPS test. A good player can annihilate a DPS dummy on any class. They can certainly pull very high numbers. Dps alone is never the test though.

Most raids are going to have 5-6 melee and 2-3 range. So you have to compare them to the other people in that roll. They are not going to out parse a mDK or Templar, or even properly played stam classes in melee range on average. The debate about stam in raids can be saved for a different thread. They are almost always going to fill one of the ranged spots, and the obvious other competitor is a magic sorc. In basically every scenario, a sorc is going to bring more to the table than the NB. So the question becomes, why would you ever play a mNB in trials when you can play a mSorc. If you are being totally objective, the answer is essentially never. Even if the single target is the same, they have less cleave damage, no utility to speak of, and the rotation is frankly more complicated. All risk no reward.

Oreyn_Bearclaw · February 2017

Attackopsn wrote: »

Autolycus wrote: »

Attackopsn wrote: »

Autolycus wrote: »

Attackopsn wrote: »

Autolycus wrote: »

So you posted a video with magblade parses that beat every stam class I've seen so far except stamblade, although the Sorc parse you posted beat that one too (37.5k). Where's the part where magblades are in a bad spot?

Stam is in a worse spot, didn't think I needed to talk about that since it's pretty much been already said by quite a few others

Okay, that doesn't answer my question though. Please explain to me how this video evidence demonstrates a "weak" class.

I note several places where you're clipping DoTs and missing light attack weaves, your sustain could improve too. My point is not to be overly critical and nit-pick over minute details. I'm not stupid enough to think that clipping a DoT results in a 3k disparity. But I'm also quite familiar with the rotation and think it can be improved to allow for better sustain and DoT uptime, and that it will improve your parse. The parse you post here is not weak, that's my point. So what if Sorcs are a little higher?

Minor Berserk is given by combat prayer in raids, pets single target dps here from its pulses are aoe. In addition to mnb not providing any competitively relevant utility. Considering the 8% difference, the 3k is a lot, especially since the sorc is getting way better aoe.

Yeah..... alright. I don't believe you're entirely wrong (that was not my point), but point deflected twice in a row = move on to a different discussion.

Said very simply, the class is weak because it does everything worse than its only competitor. There is no value in this class for an end game raiding guild.

I agree. You will almost never get 100% combat prayer uptime so it does help. That being said, it would be more optimal if the buff was something that stacked with your typical raid buffs, or perhaps even benefited the group in some way.

N1ght_Raid96 · February 2017

I like turtles

Cadbury · February 2017

This is why I pretty much stick with my Magplar.

mb10 · February 2017

Mag NB seriously need a burst heal or at least better shields because they are the ONLY class in the game with no proper heal OR shields its ridiculous

Masel · February 2017

A guy from hodor that helps us out in raids uses a magblade and breaks 60k DPS on some boss fights, so I wouldn't call magblades to be weak at all

Masel · February 2017

mb10 wrote: »

Mag NB seriously need a burst heal or at least better shields because they are the ONLY class in the game with no proper heal OR shields its ridiculous

Ok this isn't right. Magblades have strife, refreshing path, sap essence and harness magicka/dampen magic.

mb10 · February 2017

Masel92 wrote: »

mb10 wrote: »

Mag NB seriously need a burst heal or at least better shields because they are the ONLY class in the game with no proper heal OR shields its ridiculous

Ok this isn't right. Magblades have strife, refreshing path, sap essence and harness magicka/dampen magic.

In PVP when all of those are halved sp essence heals 1-2k max, harness isnt a NB skill, strife is offensive so Im referring to defensive heals and refreshing path is the less favourable morph IMO

redspecter23 · February 2017

mb10 wrote: »

Masel92 wrote: »

mb10 wrote: »

Mag NB seriously need a burst heal or at least better shields because they are the ONLY class in the game with no proper heal OR shields its ridiculous

Ok this isn't right. Magblades have strife, refreshing path, sap essence and harness magicka/dampen magic.

In PVP when all of those are halved sp essence heals 1-2k max, harness isnt a NB skill, strife is offensive so Im referring to defensive heals and refreshing path is the less favourable morph IMO

Are we talking about pvp? All signs point to this being a pve discussion. I may be confused.

EldritchPenguin · February 2017

Masel92 wrote: »

A guy from hodor that helps us out in raids uses a magblade and breaks 60k DPS on some boss fights, so I wouldn't call magblades to be weak at all

The problem isn't that Magblades in of themselves are weak. It's that Sorcerers can do everything that Magblades can do, only they are straight up better; more DPS, an easier rotation, way more survivability through Hardened Ward, only need one GCD for their big burst attack, longer ranged execute, and so on and so forth. The only real advantage that Magblades have is the ability to offheal, and the huge loss of damage from using Refreshing Path and Swallow Soul over Twisting Path and Force Pulse makes even that shoddy.

Bottom line is that no, Magblades aren't bad, just utterly eclipsed by Sorcerers.