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Something disturbing in chat last night
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Riswa✭Rude behavior is common in this game. Many people are encouraged to behave selfishly in this game. But this is without any bit of decency. I wish you could force good behavior. The real world is a better place than this cyberworld.1 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I'm fully aware that there's a whole generation of men that find pride in seeing themselves as the drill sergeant from Full Metal Jacket, but words do hurt. Not only the ones who hear them, but also the ones who utter them. It does something bad to a man's soul to classify other people in derogatory ways.
You mean the same drill sergeant that drove a recruit into a full on psychotic break and was ultimately murdered by said recruit? That drill sergeant? Yeah, I can't see how that behavior could have horrifically unintended consequences.6 -
Zyrudin✭✭✭✭anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »True, but internet relationships are relationships nonetheless and should be treated as such.
Nowadays people work together over the internet, fall in love over the internet, make politics over the internet, access culture over the internet. And play together over the internet.
They're all very real people and very real situations, and very real feelings.
100 years ago people probably said "talking over the phone isn't real talking, only face-to-face conversations matter". Now noone makes a difference between words face to face and words over the phone.
(That being said, going out and communicating with people in flesh and bones is important too, and everyone should keep a healthy balance, I agree).
Yes, I agree. That is why I pointed that out, because nobody should come to the internet looking for what they lack in real life.
They may find it on the internet, but they shouldn't be looking for it here.
In a more general sense and therefore not particularly related to the original issue of the post:
When people look on the internet for something they lack in real life, they are already framing the matter into their own perspective and nothing will ever match that ideal, so anything will "conspire" to be felt as offensive, inadequate and what not.
In a very healthy conversation two friends can call each other "a**holes" and that can be felt as friendly compliment, that shows their good relationship. The same word, however, can be felt as an actual insult if the two people do not share the same speech codes. Context is the most important in communication.1 -
DMuehlhausen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭When I was growing up my parent's taught me this valuable lesson:
"Stick and stones may break your bones, but words will never hurt you"
Apparently a nursery rhyme no longer taught in this day and age.
At the time of this nursery rhyme, children and young adults had distinctly different social circles and limited type of anonymity. I just wish parents where smart enough to use keyloggers on their childrens computer to moniter it.
Sure, but the idea still holds true. We have become such a society (America mainly) where what other people think and say about you have become paramount over any level of personal success and self worth.
True with the internet and sites like facebook, myspace, whatever the attacks essentially can go on 24/7 where 30 years ago it could only happen during school hours or at playgrounds where normally adults were or the child could leave and get away with it for at least a short time.
At the same time though we need to stop babying children so much, and I feel it is starting to swing back this way since parents are starting to see how pathetic young people have become with their feeling of self entitlement and that their opinion is the only one that matters.
No matter what we try to do as a society there will always be bullying. It's human nature and it's the way all species on this plant essentially interact from the start of life. The stronger, physically and mentally, will rise to the top and overcome issues where the weaker will suffer and fall to the wayside people need to learn how to deal with this at a young age. If you don't then the real world of having a full time job with kids and bills is going to kick your arse quick.
1 -
Tavore1138✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭DMuehlhausen wrote: »When I was growing up my parent's taught me this valuable lesson:
"Stick and stones may break your bones, but words will never hurt you"
Apparently a nursery rhyme no longer taught in this day and age.
At the time of this nursery rhyme, children and young adults had distinctly different social circles and limited type of anonymity. I just wish parents where smart enough to use keyloggers on their childrens computer to moniter it.
Sure, but the idea still holds true. We have become such a society (America mainly) where what other people think and say about you have become paramount over any level of personal success and self worth.
True with the internet and sites like facebook, myspace, whatever the attacks essentially can go on 24/7 where 30 years ago it could only happen during school hours or at playgrounds where normally adults were or the child could leave and get away with it for at least a short time.
At the same time though we need to stop babying children so much, and I feel it is starting to swing back this way since parents are starting to see how pathetic young people have become with their feeling of self entitlement and that their opinion is the only one that matters.
No matter what we try to do as a society there will always be bullying. It's human nature and it's the way all species on this plant essentially interact from the start of life. The stronger, physically and mentally, will rise to the top and overcome issues where the weaker will suffer and fall to the wayside people need to learn how to deal with this at a young age. If you don't then the real world of having a full time job with kids and bills is going to kick your arse quick.
Bopping ladies over the head and dragging them back to your cave was also human nature at one time... we moved past it (at least some of us have).
Excusing bad behaviour as 'just human nature' is just lazy appeasement.
And what people say about you does matter - for example if someone were to maliciously tell your local security services that I'd overheard you making comments that sounded like you were a radical bomber your life could take a serious turn because of my words - even if you were not actually jailed or something you might lose a job or friends, you might end up on lists that could change where you could go and what you could do in the future... all because of words. Or maybe someone could tell a partner you'd been seen having a romantic dinner with another person... that could seriously mess with your life...
In less serious examples maybe a competitive colleague going for the same promotion could quietly take credit for your work or suggest you were slacking - that could impact your financial future and career prospects.
Anyone doing that would obviously be a horrible human but your life wouldn't be any less damaged by their words - pretending words cannot be extremely harmful when mis-used is naive at best.1 -
Totes-Bode✭✭✭When I was growing up my parent's taught me this valuable lesson:
"Stick and stones may break your bones, but words will never hurt you"
Apparently a nursery rhyme no longer taught in this day and age.
Here's another nursery adage that I think certain parents never bothered to impress on their children: Think before you speak. Words matter. OP reported someone verbally inciting another to end their life. This is not covered by Freedom of Speech - In 2015 a female in Massachusetts was charged with manslaughter for such language - and the TOS of the game forbids it. The first comment to follow this dismisses this incident as "sticks and stones", implies that the issue lays with the observer for not heeding "nursery rhymes", and suggests bystanders 'ignore it'; This is not only ludicrous, it is socially repugnant. I don't care that 15 other users "AGREE" that an observer should simply play deaf or "blind" as it were. Verbal "sticks and stones" include comments like "you're ugly and dumb," not "end your life, and I hope your family suffers because of it." There are degrees of cruelty and adults ought to have the cognitive awareness to recognize that.
Take a screenshot, send it to ZOS.5 -
Firerock2✭✭✭✭✭When I was growing up my parent's taught me this valuable lesson:
"Stick and stones may break your bones, but words will never hurt you"
Apparently a nursery rhyme no longer taught in this day and age.
To suggest otherwise is to ignore some of the reasons behind mass shootings that happen all to often.
So if I disagree with you I'm automatically wrong and ignorant? Damn it!
Sorry, what?
You're saying if I have a different opinion on the matter its because I'm ignoring facts, therefore my opinion is flawed and wrong. That's asinine.
As for this entire thread, its completely unnecessary. Perhaps the OP should have opened a thread in the players helping players section because it seems like she didn't know how to report in game. Certainly though, the rest of this thread is ridiculous.
If the OP feels that making a thread every time somebody says something incredibly rude or vile in game is an appropriate response then we might as well just keep this one bumped because it will reduce the spam in the General Discussion. Report them and move on with your day.Totes-Bode wrote: »When I was growing up my parent's taught me this valuable lesson:
"Stick and stones may break your bones, but words will never hurt you"
Apparently a nursery rhyme no longer taught in this day and age.
Here's another nursery adage that I think certain parents never bothered to impress on their children: Think before you speak.
That completely misses the point. There will always be rude, vile, and evil people. They will not think before they speak. If you break down every time someone says something bad to you, then you have a much bigger problem then the bad words being said to you.
Edited by Firerock2 on February 24, 2017 1:45PM2 -
Titansteele✭✭✭✭✭FrostFallFox wrote: »Honest question, to everybody defending the "sticks and stones" idea, do you think it's okay to tell someone to end their life?
It's obviously not and that's why these things should be reported. This isn't just about "err muh gerd triggered!" it might just be the thing that pushes people with existing mental illnesses to kill them self.
No I do not, if this was aimed at me in any way then please read my posts again as you have missed important messages.
Guild Leader of The Twelve Knights, AD PVE, PVP and Trading Guild on the EU Mega Server
"That which does not kill us makes us stronger"2 -
Titansteele✭✭✭✭✭Titansteele wrote: »Titansteele wrote: »
I tend to agree. But anyway you cut it that idiom is nothing more than an excuse to act and treat people anyway you please without any regard for other people's feelings. I'm fully aware that there's a whole generation of men that find pride in seeing themselves as the drill sergeant from Full Metal Jacket, but words do hurt. Not only the ones who hear them, but also the ones who utter them. It does something bad to a man's soul to classify other people in derogatory ways.
I agree with the generation of drill Sergeants comment but I should clarify that is not my generation nor is it my outlook. If my friends called me a foul name that would hurt me, they are the people I care about and I hope care about me and my feelings. If you were to call me the exact same name it would not impact my life in anyway whatsoever, I do not know you, you do not know me and your insult can not harm me.
My point is when people lack the mental toughness to handle noise from people that should not be able to impact their lives and general wellbeing then they are in for a really rough ride through life.
There are clear exceptions and the example Op provided is clearly one of them.
You write insightful things.
I just slightly disagree. I know it would not hurt either of us "on paper" if I called you something awful because to you I'm anonymous. My point is that whatever we put out into the universe either helps cleanse or pollute it. The guy talking about suicide in chat (from the OP's story) is darkening not only his own soul but the people around him with negative vibes. I know this comes off incredibly "flower power"-ish, but try to think of it in scientific terms. If you pour oil into a body of water, or whatever really. Our common discourse is incredibly important to our well being as a social species, and while it may be good advice to say to children not to be bothered by the harsh words of strangers, I truly believe it is actually impossible.
I think you may be more intuitive than I and I certainly not discount your views or way of thinking about this but I think the realist in me would say that you would be hoping for a utopia, an unattainable vision of humanity and society.
Look back in our history and it shows you what people are truly capable of. Some people will always choose to pour oil into that metaphoric body of water, I can not prevent that from happening as much as I would like to be able too. What I can do is choose how that will impact me and my life. It is not about ignoring the oil that pollutes the water either, it is about not allowing the oil to consume me. That is where the mental toughness becomes a benefit and that is why I think stripping that out of the skillset of my children puts them at a disadvantage.
I hear you, I do. I just feel that ignoring it is a dangerous path that may lead to disregard. We need to educate ourselves to be better, not to ignore the evil, but to fight it. I don't wish to put myself on a pedestal as I'm in no way enlightened enough to live by this credo, and I will say the same to my children as you say to yours when they encounter this evil. Simply looking back at history, as you suggest, will tell me more about the need to stand up than the need to ignore.
I dream I can teach my children to embrace "bad" people, love them, and teach them a better way.
I have enjoyed this discussion Jitterbug, I really have. I think it is fair to say that neither of us condone or like the "evil" that is present but I think the reality of the situation is each scenario should be weighed and measured and dealt with based upon the merits of the case you are faced with. Sometimes reacting to a bully is giving them what they want and will encourage repeat offences and other time the only way to deal with them is head on. Your dream for your children is admirable but I feel that it would get them burned. With that said if the "bad" people burn them I will gladly stand by your side and tank them while you DPS
Guild Leader of The Twelve Knights, AD PVE, PVP and Trading Guild on the EU Mega Server
"That which does not kill us makes us stronger"1 -
Junipus✭✭✭✭✭Tavore1138 wrote: »DMuehlhausen wrote: »When I was growing up my parent's taught me this valuable lesson:
"Stick and stones may break your bones, but words will never hurt you"
Apparently a nursery rhyme no longer taught in this day and age.
At the time of this nursery rhyme, children and young adults had distinctly different social circles and limited type of anonymity. I just wish parents where smart enough to use keyloggers on their childrens computer to moniter it.
Sure, but the idea still holds true. We have become such a society (America mainly) where what other people think and say about you have become paramount over any level of personal success and self worth.
True with the internet and sites like facebook, myspace, whatever the attacks essentially can go on 24/7 where 30 years ago it could only happen during school hours or at playgrounds where normally adults were or the child could leave and get away with it for at least a short time.
At the same time though we need to stop babying children so much, and I feel it is starting to swing back this way since parents are starting to see how pathetic young people have become with their feeling of self entitlement and that their opinion is the only one that matters.
No matter what we try to do as a society there will always be bullying. It's human nature and it's the way all species on this plant essentially interact from the start of life. The stronger, physically and mentally, will rise to the top and overcome issues where the weaker will suffer and fall to the wayside people need to learn how to deal with this at a young age. If you don't then the real world of having a full time job with kids and bills is going to kick your arse quick.
Bopping ladies over the head and dragging them back to your cave was also human nature at one time... we moved past it (at least some of us have).
Excusing bad behaviour as 'just human nature' is just lazy appeasement.
And what people say about you does matter - for example if someone were to maliciously tell your local security services that I'd overheard you making comments that sounded like you were a radical bomber your life could take a serious turn because of my words - even if you were not actually jailed or something you might lose a job or friends, you might end up on lists that could change where you could go and what you could do in the future... all because of words. Or maybe someone could tell a partner you'd been seen having a romantic dinner with another person... that could seriously mess with your life...
In less serious examples maybe a competitive colleague going for the same promotion could quietly take credit for your work or suggest you were slacking - that could impact your financial future and career prospects.
Anyone doing that would obviously be a horrible human but your life wouldn't be any less damaged by their words - pretending words cannot be extremely harmful when mis-used is naive at best.
Those who dismiss such things as "it's just the internet" or "grow a thicker skin" either haven't experienced such things themselves and can't empathise or use such tactics to ignore the situation. If you dismiss and ignore it then you don't have to face it and deal with it, a common tactic used by practically everyone and one which results in continued harassment of those who are victimised.
n.b. see every social issue ever.The Legendary Nothing3 -
Tavore1138✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Tavore1138 wrote: »DMuehlhausen wrote: »When I was growing up my parent's taught me this valuable lesson:
"Stick and stones may break your bones, but words will never hurt you"
Apparently a nursery rhyme no longer taught in this day and age.
At the time of this nursery rhyme, children and young adults had distinctly different social circles and limited type of anonymity. I just wish parents where smart enough to use keyloggers on their childrens computer to moniter it.
Sure, but the idea still holds true. We have become such a society (America mainly) where what other people think and say about you have become paramount over any level of personal success and self worth.
True with the internet and sites like facebook, myspace, whatever the attacks essentially can go on 24/7 where 30 years ago it could only happen during school hours or at playgrounds where normally adults were or the child could leave and get away with it for at least a short time.
At the same time though we need to stop babying children so much, and I feel it is starting to swing back this way since parents are starting to see how pathetic young people have become with their feeling of self entitlement and that their opinion is the only one that matters.
No matter what we try to do as a society there will always be bullying. It's human nature and it's the way all species on this plant essentially interact from the start of life. The stronger, physically and mentally, will rise to the top and overcome issues where the weaker will suffer and fall to the wayside people need to learn how to deal with this at a young age. If you don't then the real world of having a full time job with kids and bills is going to kick your arse quick.
Bopping ladies over the head and dragging them back to your cave was also human nature at one time... we moved past it (at least some of us have).
Excusing bad behaviour as 'just human nature' is just lazy appeasement.
And what people say about you does matter - for example if someone were to maliciously tell your local security services that I'd overheard you making comments that sounded like you were a radical bomber your life could take a serious turn because of my words - even if you were not actually jailed or something you might lose a job or friends, you might end up on lists that could change where you could go and what you could do in the future... all because of words. Or maybe someone could tell a partner you'd been seen having a romantic dinner with another person... that could seriously mess with your life...
In less serious examples maybe a competitive colleague going for the same promotion could quietly take credit for your work or suggest you were slacking - that could impact your financial future and career prospects.
Anyone doing that would obviously be a horrible human but your life wouldn't be any less damaged by their words - pretending words cannot be extremely harmful when mis-used is naive at best.
Those who dismiss such things as "it's just the internet" or "grow a thicker skin" either haven't experienced such things themselves and can't empathise or use such tactics to ignore the situation. If you dismiss and ignore it then you don't have to face it and deal with it, a common tactic used by practically everyone and one which results in continued harassment of those who are victimised.
n.b. see every social issue ever.
I hear ya!1 -
anitajoneb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭You're saying if I have a different opinion on the matter its because I'm ignoring facts, therefore my opinion is flawed and wrong. That's asinine.
Well, there are opinions and there are facts. If an opinion doesn't reasonably fit with facts, it not an opinion anymore, it's simply wrong. It's okay to argue and confront other people's opinions with facts.As for this entire thread, its completely unnecessary. Perhaps the OP should have opened a thread in the players helping players section because it seems like she didn't know how to report in game. Certainly though, the rest of this thread is ridiculous.
If at all, this thread helped OP feel better and release some unease, so yeah if only for that, it's a very useful thread. I also think it's been a very interesting thread on a touchy subject, that's been kept civil so far over 5+ pages. I wouldn't call that "ridiculous".That completely misses the point. There will always be rude, vile, and evil people.
You're free to be as pessimistic as you want, but if others are more optimistic, why does it bother you ? I for one think that bad behaviours can be countered by condemning them, calling them for what they are, and if possible by fighting them.
There were times where you'd be safe walking in the streets at any time day or night, simply because there were other people around. People would not get assaulted in the middle of a crowd at midday just because the crowd prefers to look away.They may find it on the internet, but they shouldn't be looking for it here.
In a more general sense and therefore not particularly related to the original issue of the post:
When people look on the internet for something they lack in real life, they are already framing the matter into their own perspective and nothing will ever match that ideal, so anything will "conspire" to be felt as offensive, inadequate and what not.
Good food for thought. Thank you.
Edited by anitajoneb17_ESO on February 24, 2017 2:16PM0 -
Violynne✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Your parents were [self censor] [self censor].When I was growing up my parent's taught me this valuable lesson:
"Stick and stones may break your bones, but words will never hurt you"
Most are based on human suffering, including the one above. "Ring around the roses" was about the symptoms of the "Black Death". Humpty Dumpty was about the fall of government where millions died.Apparently a nursery rhyme no longer taught in this day and age.
Again, your parents are [self censor] [self censor] for teaching you compassion for others is wrong.
It's true some statements made on the internet can be taken with a grain of salt, but I'm pretty confident when you actually do become a parent, and some numbskull threatens to [this word will be censored] your daughter, you won't be saying "Sticks and stones...". That's a promise.
If you're under 18, you get a pass because of your ignorant parents.
If you're over 18, you should be ashamed of yourself.
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rfennell_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Sticks and Stones... is as true as it is old.
But, while you should adhere to the wisdom on not letting someone bother you with mere words... The fact is that there is a line that can be crossed and if you report it the perpetrator will have action taken against them.
Point being, you really ought not let simple words combined in a sentence bother you... but, if they go past that line of decency you really should report the violation. You can still report in game and attach a screenshot, the way this works is that your last screenshot is attached to the report. OR: if you really feel the need to highlight what it was that was offensive you can alt-tab out, open up the screenshot and crop it (or whatever you need to do to make it more visible) and upload it to a half dozen free picture sites and add that link to your report.1 -
Emmagoldman✭✭✭✭✭
✭^ I completely agree, There isnt an age group that I havent seen hurt by comments and yes, there are at times very clear lines. Sticks and stones, are you a child? The problem with online anything is you can run your mouth and have no consequences. If someone is having a crisis, you need to be very careful with what you say.
Fo the sticks and stones bro
I grew up on the southside side of chicago in a small irish/italian neighberhood. We heard that nursey ryhme too, but when we were older than two we learned if names hurt me, smash that person in the face so they dont do it again. I dont talk trash till this day because if you talked smack, you were going to box.
I think the best thing to do is take a screen shot, then send in a ticket. You can go to zos's website and file a ticket next time.1 -
Coakknows✭✭The game has an ignore function. As the name suggests, it is for ignoring player you don't want to hear from.
Problem solved1 -
Jaeysa✭✭✭✭✭
Ignoring people doesn't always make them go away. And frankly, after a line is crossed I'd say instead of just ignoring them we should actively dissuade people from saying things like that.The game has an ignore function. As the name suggests, it is for ignoring player you don't want to hear from.
Problem solved
PC/NA: Primarily Daggerfall Covenant.
Lennie: Breton Sorceror. 9-trait crafter on everything, purveyor of useless frippery.3 -
Firerock2✭✭✭✭✭anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »You're saying if I have a different opinion on the matter its because I'm ignoring facts, therefore my opinion is flawed and wrong. That's asinine.
Well, there are opinions and there are facts. If an opinion doesn't reasonably fit with facts, it not an opinion anymore, it's simply wrong. It's okay to argue and confront other people's opinions with facts.
I agree that you can argue your opinion with facts but that is not what Molydeus was doing. He wrote off every other opinion by making sweeping statement saying they were ignoring facts if they didn't agree with him. People can view the same event and come up with different opinions. That doesn't mean they are ignoring it.
Saying that your opinion on the matter is right and everyone is else is just ignoring whatever fact (or whatever you believe to be a fact) you may be referring to is not arguing. I don't think rude statements is what drives mass shooters. Bullying, in that context, is far more complex than just saying bad things. That is not what pushes people to such extremes in my opinion.
If an opinion doesn't fit reasonably enough with facts, you have to argue why it doesn't. You could be wrong; just because you don't understand it doesn't mean it is wrong. Also opinions don't just stop being opinions.anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »"If an opinion doesn't reasonably fit with facts, it not an opinion anymore, it's simply wrong."
It is of my opinion that what you say does not fit reasonably well with the facts presented. Therefore your opinion is no longer valid, you are wrong, I am right.- This is not a discussion, or argument. It is an asinine statement.
That's great, how is this relevant to what I said? My statement was in response to the phrase, "Think before you speak". I will say it again, there will always be who do not think before they speak. Life will break you if you can't even deal with a few words that are not nice. The point is to not put so much value in the words. Posting a thread about it is not "fighting" bad behaviors and whatever your "fighting" entails it will never stop people from saying bad things. Unless it involves some 1984 type of sh*t, and that's a different problem.anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »I for one think that bad behaviours can be countered by condemning them, calling them for what they are, and if possible by fighting them.anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »There were times where you'd be safe walking in the streets at any time day or night, simply because there were other people around. People would not get assaulted in the middle of a crowd at midday just because the crowd prefers to look away.
The bystander effect has always been a thing, it is a part of human nature. It is not going away.
In no instance in known history has the world been devoid of suffering and bad people. Whatever your point was with that last paragraph, it didn't really address what I'm saying.Edited by Firerock2 on February 24, 2017 3:08PM1 -
Coakknows✭✭
Ignoring people doesn't always make them go away. And frankly, after a line is crossed I'd say instead of just ignoring them we should actively dissuade people from saying things like that.The game has an ignore function. As the name suggests, it is for ignoring player you don't want to hear from.
Problem solved
Yes, that's what the report function is for. What else do you realistically expect to be done?
Maybe a ban for recidivists, fair enough.
But there'll always be an idiot out there who really pushes your buttons. Ignore. Report, if that's gonna make you feel better. Get over it.Edited by Coakknows on February 24, 2017 2:54PM1 -
Coakknows✭✭On a side note - statistically, in terms of the threat of violence, we are living in the safest period of history.
Check out S Pinker's The Better Angels of Our Nature.Edited by Coakknows on February 24, 2017 3:02PM0 -
sevomd69✭✭✭✭✭
✭What happened to common decency? Of course I grew up hearing that anachronistic nursery rhyme spewed by adults who had no concept on how to deal with real life problems experienced by their children, other than to repeat a generalized saying that does not fit into each individual situation...
Also people who are saying that they grew up with this notion that words don't hurt or matter in the grand scheme of things... I think have forgotten the fact that when we heard those words... IT DID HURT... some persevered... while others did not... some leading to tragedy that have ruined lives and their family's lives...
Instead of using an outdated limerick to soothe the real life fears and pain of children and in fact all who are experiencing these horrible comments, maybe it would be better to just teach our children to be more compassionate and just better human beings... then maybe NO ONE will have to "accept" sticks, stones or hurtful words at all...1 -
srfrogg23✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I don't normally pay much attention to chat, but I was glancing at it while I was passing the time waiting for a Dolmen to start up. I don't have the full name of the person who made these comments and if I did, I'm still not sure how I would report it. This person was telling someone that they should commit suicide and that they would like to see the person's mother have to watch as her child was put into the ground.
As a mother and as a widow, this disturbed me on so many levels. I wasn't going to say anything about it at all, but I couldn't get it off of my mind. I thought that sharing it might ease my mind some. I'm not trolling and I'm not trying to start trouble. I know better than to think that everyone is always going to get along, but everybody deserves more respect than that. I appreciate the opportunity to be able to unload.
That is a good example of the unfiltered stupidity of people who are protected by the anonymity of the internet combined with a nasty case of nerd-rage-gone-wild. Hopefully the recipient of that pathetic vitriol knows enough to ignore that kind of ignorant sociopathic nonsense.
Unfortunately, there won't be a whole lot that can be done aside from reporting the idiot for harassment because the internet, just by its nature, makes for an excellent tool for those kinds of *** to voice their "opinions" with little to no record of the behavior or accountability.
You really have 4 options:
1. Ignore it; it says more about the person making the comments than it does about the recipient.
2. Report it; hope the "paper trail" piles up enough to get the neckbearding jackass banned.
3. Get nasty back; the internet is a bit like the wild-west and sometimes the only way to deal with trolls in a way that makes sense to them is to find their weak points and start digging into them until they become so flustered that they abandon their efforts to *** you off.
4. A combination of the last 3 things.4 -
Kammakazi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭So it's "okay" behavior for people to do this? And we should just "suck it up" and get "thicker skin"? lol0 -
anitajoneb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭It will never stop people from saying bad things. ../...
The bystander effect has always been a thing, it is a part of human nature. It is not going away.
Sorry if I cut through your reasoning... which sums up to "Things are bad, people are bad, life is hard, there's no point doing anything against it because it has always been like that and will always be like that and it's human nature".
Worse even, you seem to imply that any kind of condemning bad attitudes is likely to lead to a "dictatorship of the good".
I not only strongly disagree with both statements (only a minority of people are actually "bad", and a common background for "right" and "wrong" is what makes up a society), but I think this passivity is dangerous. Being "thick-skinned enough to ignore" is no strength and no bravery.
(That being said, I agree that there isn't much anyone can do in the context of ESO, but still... not applauding would already be a start).
As to the "bystander" effect, I know some sociologists have theorized it and I don't deny that, but the truth is, our streets and lives used to be much more secure than nowadays - when people felt some responsibility for the common good, instead of cowardly growing a thick skin and minding strictly their own business when they should have helped the weaker ones.
Edited by anitajoneb17_ESO on February 24, 2017 3:16PM0 -
Jitterbug✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭starkerealm wrote: »I'm fully aware that there's a whole generation of men that find pride in seeing themselves as the drill sergeant from Full Metal Jacket, but words do hurt. Not only the ones who hear them, but also the ones who utter them. It does something bad to a man's soul to classify other people in derogatory ways.
You mean the same drill sergeant that drove a recruit into a full on psychotic break and was ultimately murdered by said recruit? That drill sergeant? Yeah, I can't see how that behavior could have horrifically unintended consequences.
Yes that's the one. And also sort of my point exactly ;-)1 -
anitajoneb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
1. Stop spreading the idea that it is unavoidable
2. Point at them loudly - by which I mean naming and shaming
3. Counter the "bad people are strong and cool" mentality that's spreading like wildfire
4. Stop laughing at such things
5. Ban them and their friends from our guilds and friends. If there's one thing that those people fear, it's loneliness and lack of audience.
Edited by anitajoneb17_ESO on February 24, 2017 3:22PM6 -
Jitterbug✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Titansteele wrote: »Titansteele wrote: »Titansteele wrote: »
I tend to agree. But anyway you cut it that idiom is nothing more than an excuse to act and treat people anyway you please without any regard for other people's feelings. I'm fully aware that there's a whole generation of men that find pride in seeing themselves as the drill sergeant from Full Metal Jacket, but words do hurt. Not only the ones who hear them, but also the ones who utter them. It does something bad to a man's soul to classify other people in derogatory ways.
I agree with the generation of drill Sergeants comment but I should clarify that is not my generation nor is it my outlook. If my friends called me a foul name that would hurt me, they are the people I care about and I hope care about me and my feelings. If you were to call me the exact same name it would not impact my life in anyway whatsoever, I do not know you, you do not know me and your insult can not harm me.
My point is when people lack the mental toughness to handle noise from people that should not be able to impact their lives and general wellbeing then they are in for a really rough ride through life.
There are clear exceptions and the example Op provided is clearly one of them.
You write insightful things.
I just slightly disagree. I know it would not hurt either of us "on paper" if I called you something awful because to you I'm anonymous. My point is that whatever we put out into the universe either helps cleanse or pollute it. The guy talking about suicide in chat (from the OP's story) is darkening not only his own soul but the people around him with negative vibes. I know this comes off incredibly "flower power"-ish, but try to think of it in scientific terms. If you pour oil into a body of water, or whatever really. Our common discourse is incredibly important to our well being as a social species, and while it may be good advice to say to children not to be bothered by the harsh words of strangers, I truly believe it is actually impossible.
I think you may be more intuitive than I and I certainly not discount your views or way of thinking about this but I think the realist in me would say that you would be hoping for a utopia, an unattainable vision of humanity and society.
Look back in our history and it shows you what people are truly capable of. Some people will always choose to pour oil into that metaphoric body of water, I can not prevent that from happening as much as I would like to be able too. What I can do is choose how that will impact me and my life. It is not about ignoring the oil that pollutes the water either, it is about not allowing the oil to consume me. That is where the mental toughness becomes a benefit and that is why I think stripping that out of the skillset of my children puts them at a disadvantage.
I hear you, I do. I just feel that ignoring it is a dangerous path that may lead to disregard. We need to educate ourselves to be better, not to ignore the evil, but to fight it. I don't wish to put myself on a pedestal as I'm in no way enlightened enough to live by this credo, and I will say the same to my children as you say to yours when they encounter this evil. Simply looking back at history, as you suggest, will tell me more about the need to stand up than the need to ignore.
I dream I can teach my children to embrace "bad" people, love them, and teach them a better way.
I have enjoyed this discussion Jitterbug, I really have. I think it is fair to say that neither of us condone or like the "evil" that is present but I think the reality of the situation is each scenario should be weighed and measured and dealt with based upon the merits of the case you are faced with. Sometimes reacting to a bully is giving them what they want and will encourage repeat offences and other time the only way to deal with them is head on. Your dream for your children is admirable but I feel that it would get them burned. With that said if the "bad" people burn them I will gladly stand by your side and tank them while you DPS
As have I my friend
And while I can see how the sentiment might be perceived as "weak" or Ghandi-esque it is far from it. There is immense strength in the acknowledgement of the presence of "evil" and a willingness to embrace it. I will never teach them to take abuse lying down. I will teach them to accept it and understand the reasons for the "evil" in the first place. Like the classic "a bully is a bully because his alcoholic dad beats him".0
This discussion has been closed.