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DW nerf. Unjustified?

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Ep1kMalware
Ep1kMalware
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I know dw was nerfed to bring it down to 2h. I lost ~200 or so weapon damage. Ok, that's not huge but it's still a loss. But is it worth it? Imo having to use 8 extra tempers for 200wd as opposed to only 8 for a 2h seems fair. If usimg non vmsa weapons you get an extra set bonus, sure.

But is the dw nerf to 2h damage justified when you have to spend double the mats (or pre homestead) double the time farming vmsa?
  • DocFrost72
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    They still do have a considerable advantage over 2H melee weapons, as all their passives were designed for PvE. The nerf wasn't meant for PvP, as 2H melee weapons already reign supreme over dw.

    So yes, probably still justified imo anyway.
  • Ep1kMalware
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    DocFrost72 wrote: »
    They still do have a considerable advantage over 2H melee weapons, as all their passives were designed for PvE. The nerf wasn't meant for PvP, as 2H melee weapons already reign supreme over dw.

    So yes, probably still justified imo anyway.

    True, but damage is lower in pvp anyway, and much higher in pve for a purpose. If it was intended thst way before then why change it now?
  • SaRuZ
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    Is it still worth rolling DW sharp swords on backbar for mag builds?
    Edited by SaRuZ on February 23, 2017 3:34AM
  • Father_X_Zombie
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    I still think it was another jab to kill DW mag Sorcs. You can tank with a frost staff but YOU ABSOLUTELY CANNOT mag DPS with DW.
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  • Wrecking_Blow_Spam
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    It's dissapointing for sure, stamina falls further down the ladder in PVE content compared to magicka.
    Xbox one EU
    8 Flawless conquerors on all class specs (4 stam, 4 magicka)
    Doesn't stand in red
  • xboxNA corin6
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    If you lost 200 spell power, that means you had 6500 spell power being that the nerf was 3%.
    I'm a magsorc
  • Ep1kMalware
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    Wrecking_Blow_Spam wrote: »
    It's dissapointing for sure, stamina falls further down the ladder in PVE content compared to magicka.

    Makes me wonder how much people generalize. There are alot of stam players that can out perform most mag dps because they are alot more intune with their build/rotation; than oppised to fotm players rolling out new toons merely because they're the new meta.

    The trials haven't changed any, the only thing that has changed is the current setup to get the most competative achievments. Which leads me to ask: Would you setup a raid team of experienced stam dps or questionable magica dps (no achievdments on their toons), both im bis gear, max cp. If you had to choose 1 or the the other.
  • xboxNA corin6
    xboxNA corin6
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    Weapon*
    I'm a magsorc
  • Asgari
    Asgari
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    No way you lost that much
    Formerly @Persian_Princess .. Now @Asgari
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  • danno8
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    Princess_Asgari wrote: »
    No way you lost that much

    Exactly.

    OP, the nerf was 3% to the off-hand weapon. Or in other words around 40 spell/weapon damage.
  • thankyourat
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    Father_X_Zombie wrote: »
    I still think it was another jab to kill DW mag Sorcs. You can tank with a frost staff but YOU ABSOLUTELY CANNOT mag DPS with DW.

    This is pretty much the end of dual wield magblade as well
  • ADarklore
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    Furthermore, DW has the even greater advantage of a second gear set piece, something 2H, Bow and Staff do not receive. So yes, the nerf was justified for that reason alone.
    CP: 2105 ** ESO+ ** ~~ ***** Strictly a solo PvE quester *****
    ~~Started Playing: May 2015 | Stopped Playing: July 2025 | Returned: March 2026~~
  • Muramasa89
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    You still get more W/S dam AND an extra item towards a set. Sounds fine to me.
  • FriedEggSandwich
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    SaRuZ wrote: »
    Is it still worth rolling DW sharp swords on backbar for mag builds?

    I don't think so, I think 8% more damage > 300sd or whatever it is. I could be wrong though.
    PC | EU
  • ADarklore
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    FriedEggSandwich wrote: »
    SaRuZ wrote: »
    Is it still worth rolling DW sharp swords on backbar for mag builds?

    I don't think so, I think 8% more damage > 300sd or whatever it is. I could be wrong though.

    There is a thread in the forums here somewhere in which someone ran the numbers and DW still came out ahead of 8% staff increase. Interesting though how some people only consider the damage of the DW alone and fail to consider the increased set bonus that it also achieves, which also factors into a person's build.
    Edited by ADarklore on February 23, 2017 4:27AM
    CP: 2105 ** ESO+ ** ~~ ***** Strictly a solo PvE quester *****
    ~~Started Playing: May 2015 | Stopped Playing: July 2025 | Returned: March 2026~~
  • FriedEggSandwich
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    ADarklore wrote: »
    FriedEggSandwich wrote: »
    SaRuZ wrote: »
    Is it still worth rolling DW sharp swords on backbar for mag builds?

    I don't think so, I think 8% more damage > 300sd or whatever it is. I could be wrong though.

    There is a thread in the forums here somewhere in which someone ran the numbers and DW still came out ahead of 8% staff increase. Interesting though how some people only consider the damage of the DW alone and fail to consider the increased set bonus that it also achieves, which also factors into a person's build.

    Good to know thanks. I still run dual willpower axes on my back bar for vma and they still do good damage, my max overload crits have dropped though. I just assumed that the 8% damage had surpassed the dw damage just because 8% is a hefty amount, but you're right I forgot about set bonuses.
    PC | EU
  • xboxNA corin6
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    FriedEggSandwich wrote: »
    ADarklore wrote: »
    FriedEggSandwich wrote: »
    SaRuZ wrote: »
    Is it still worth rolling DW sharp swords on backbar for mag builds?

    I don't think so, I think 8% more damage > 300sd or whatever it is. I could be wrong though.

    There is a thread in the forums here somewhere in which someone ran the numbers and DW still came out ahead of 8% staff increase. Interesting though how some people only consider the damage of the DW alone and fail to consider the increased set bonus that it also achieves, which also factors into a person's build.

    Good to know thanks. I still run dual willpower axes on my back bar for vma and they still do good damage, my max overload crits have dropped though. I just assumed that the 8% damage had surpassed the dw damage just because 8% is a hefty amount, but you're right I forgot about set bonuses.
    Swords also add 5% damage still right?
    Edited by xboxNA corin6 on February 23, 2017 4:46AM
    I'm a magsorc
  • FriedEggSandwich
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    xboxNA corin6 wrote: »
    FriedEggSandwich wrote: »
    ADarklore wrote: »
    FriedEggSandwich wrote: »
    SaRuZ wrote: »
    Is it still worth rolling DW sharp swords on backbar for mag builds?

    I don't think so, I think 8% more damage > 300sd or whatever it is. I could be wrong though.

    There is a thread in the forums here somewhere in which someone ran the numbers and DW still came out ahead of 8% staff increase. Interesting though how some people only consider the damage of the DW alone and fail to consider the increased set bonus that it also achieves, which also factors into a person's build.

    Good to know thanks. I still run dual willpower axes on my back bar for vma and they still do good damage, my max overload crits have dropped though. I just assumed that the 8% damage had surpassed the dw damage just because 8% is a hefty amount, but you're right I forgot about set bonuses.
    Swords also add 5% damage still right?

    There is that passive but I don't believe it affects your oveload light attacks or skills on your overload bar. I've not personally tested it, but advice from people in the know has always been that if you're a dual wielding overload sorc then it doesn't matter what you dual wield.
    PC | EU
  • Ep1kMalware
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    danno8 wrote: »
    Princess_Asgari wrote: »
    No way you lost that much

    Exactly.

    OP, the nerf was 3% to the off-hand weapon. Or in other words around 40 spell/weapon damage.

    I went from 3400 fully unbuffed to 3200 fully unbuffed. I thought PN said they droped overall dw dmg to br the same wd as 2h
  • Ep1kMalware
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    I'm speaking in terms of WEAPON damage, not spell damage.
  • Duiwel
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    This is sad news OP I was wondering why my Stamsorc dps, StamDK dps went down considerably.

    My Magplar, Magblade dps also went down considerably...

    Guess going destro, resto staff or Destro, destro now on my mag chars.

    HOPEFULLY this will encourage ZOS to introduce the no weapon spell casting weapon tree ( like previous TES games) just cast with your hands :smile:
    Edited by Duiwel on February 23, 2017 7:18AM
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  • Enslaved
    Enslaved
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    DW nerf: complete, utter bs. Nerfing only decent stamina AOE class wide weapon in PvE made all my stamina chars wet noodles in group dungeons. sSorc is currently the only class I can deal up to 25k dps self buffed without maelstorm weapons. In b4 L2P, I find stamina in PvE absolute chore right now. When you add to that changes to rearming trap, there is your answer why stamina has no place in trials anymore. My sDK feels so weak compared to what mSorc, mNB and mDK can do. My damage % on bosses went down from steady 60% to 35-40% in group I play with for year or so. Same rotation, same gear. Maybe its time to park all my stamina chars near crafting area in Mournhold and focus just on magicka ones. I do enjoy huge improvements to mDK, especially in PvP.
  • ADarklore
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    xboxNA corin6 wrote: »
    FriedEggSandwich wrote: »
    ADarklore wrote: »
    FriedEggSandwich wrote: »
    SaRuZ wrote: »
    Is it still worth rolling DW sharp swords on backbar for mag builds?

    I don't think so, I think 8% more damage > 300sd or whatever it is. I could be wrong though.

    There is a thread in the forums here somewhere in which someone ran the numbers and DW still came out ahead of 8% staff increase. Interesting though how some people only consider the damage of the DW alone and fail to consider the increased set bonus that it also achieves, which also factors into a person's build.

    Good to know thanks. I still run dual willpower axes on my back bar for vma and they still do good damage, my max overload crits have dropped though. I just assumed that the 8% damage had surpassed the dw damage just because 8% is a hefty amount, but you're right I forgot about set bonuses.
    Swords also add 5% damage still right?

    Yes, this is why DW Swords on a magicka build, along with extra set bonus, still beats the 8% Staff damage increase.
    CP: 2105 ** ESO+ ** ~~ ***** Strictly a solo PvE quester *****
    ~~Started Playing: May 2015 | Stopped Playing: July 2025 | Returned: March 2026~~
  • Bigevilpeter
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    Wait when did this happen?? with homestead patch?? I didnt even notice, but i guess my damage seems lower, but i though because of the crit damage nerf and the monster set nerfs
  • danno8
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    Ep1kMalware wrote: »
    danno8 wrote: »
    Princess_Asgari wrote: »
    No way you lost that much

    Exactly.

    OP, the nerf was 3% to the off-hand weapon. Or in other words around 40 spell/weapon damage.

    I went from 3400 fully unbuffed to 3200 fully unbuffed. I thought PN said they droped overall dw dmg to br the same wd as 2h

    Don't know what to tell you. Dual Wield was always a little bit higher than 2H(stamina) for weapon damage, so they brought it down by "3%" so that it should be "equal to 2H". It should not make a 200 weapon damage hit on your stat sheet.

    For Magicka, Staves are still the worst for spell damage, next highest being 2H and (now equal) Dual Wield. lol, how that makes sense at all is beyond me.
  • Ep1kMalware
    Ep1kMalware
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    danno8 wrote: »
    Ep1kMalware wrote: »
    danno8 wrote: »
    Princess_Asgari wrote: »
    No way you lost that much

    Exactly.

    OP, the nerf was 3% to the off-hand weapon. Or in other words around 40 spell/weapon damage.

    I went from 3400 fully unbuffed to 3200 fully unbuffed. I thought PN said they droped overall dw dmg to br the same wd as 2h

    Don't know what to tell you. Dual Wield was always a little bit higher than 2H(stamina) for weapon damage, so they brought it down by "3%" so that it should be "equal to 2H". It should not make a 200 weapon damage hit on your stat sheet.

    For Magicka, Staves are still the worst for spell damage, next highest being 2H and (now equal) Dual Wield. lol, how that makes sense at all is beyond me.

    Hahaha 2h better than axe now. Holy ***. Inb4 maelstromdaggers flurry trapbeast jesus beam builds.
  • mr_wazzabi
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    ADarklore wrote: »
    xboxNA corin6 wrote: »
    FriedEggSandwich wrote: »
    ADarklore wrote: »
    FriedEggSandwich wrote: »
    SaRuZ wrote: »
    Is it still worth rolling DW sharp swords on backbar for mag builds?

    I don't think so, I think 8% more damage > 300sd or whatever it is. I could be wrong though.

    There is a thread in the forums here somewhere in which someone ran the numbers and DW still came out ahead of 8% staff increase. Interesting though how some people only consider the damage of the DW alone and fail to consider the increased set bonus that it also achieves, which also factors into a person's build.

    Good to know thanks. I still run dual willpower axes on my back bar for vma and they still do good damage, my max overload crits have dropped though. I just assumed that the 8% damage had surpassed the dw damage just because 8% is a hefty amount, but you're right I forgot about set bonuses.
    Swords also add 5% damage still right?

    Yes, this is why DW Swords on a magicka build, along with extra set bonus, still beats the 8% Staff damage increase.

    Weak weaves though, so staff is still higher dps.
    Bosmer Stamina NB
    Altmer Magicka TEMP
    Dunmer DK both stam/mag (depends what I feel like)
    Altmer Magicka NB
    Breton Magicka Sorc
    Redguard Stam Sorc
    Max CP
  • Ghost-Shot
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    Did you forget to equip your off hand weapon?? Most people lost like 30-50 weapon/spell damage...
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