Nerf Burning Spellweave? (Trigger Warning)

srfrogg23 · February 2017

No

Minalan wrote: »

BSW is one of the final nails in the light armor crafting coffin.

Oh...it's not that bad. I'm wearing a 5-piece Julianos, all divines.

The ever present advantage of crafting is the ability to choose exactly which stats and items you want for your set without having to spend weeks or months running the same dungeon over and over again.

BSW is a great set, but the boring, boring grind people have to go through to get the exact pieces they want with the exact traits and enchantments is a pretty massive time investment that most people don't want to do.

Cronopoly · February 2017

No

Vaoh wrote: »

What do you think?

Tons of sets have already been nerfed to hell and back with no Crits allowed at all on many 5 piece bonuses. If BSW is nerfed then something else will rise to the top and will you champion that getting nerfed too?

This didn't occur just because...ZOS took action and people obviously regeared.

cpuScientist · February 2017

Other

You can only get a max of 66% uptime, which equals out to 396 spell damage, the usual uptime in practice though is 60% which is 360. By this I mean. When you balance the downtime with the uptime it comes out to getting that spell damage. This is why if you are only getting around a 50% uptime it's not really great lol. It's a strong set but not as strong as many people make out to be. Furthermore it calls for a specific playstyle. And it's proc rate goes down during execute phases for some classes, so while it may have a good uptime overall the uptime during executes sometimes get lower than 50%, since you are no longer spamming force pulse or throwing out reflective.

TLDR: It's fine, it's balanced by the uptime and playstyle.

timidobserver · February 2017

No

There probably needs to be some gear balancing. Some dropped sets need buffing. However, I don't see a need to make easily obtained crafted sets on par with dropped sets.

cpuScientist · February 2017

Other

It's OK for some sets to be better than others you know. We really need to stop asking for nerf this or that. But buff that it this. Buff julianos to be 350 spell damage for instance, this still wouldn't make it better than bsw on paper, but it would make them alot closer. But really BSW is just fine. It's a strong set that's not overly above and beyond. You can wear julianos and pull nearly the same number.

The only thing in this game that is OP is sharpened. Precise and nirnhoned need buffs more than anything else needs nerfs.

MaxwellC · February 2017

Other

Make it only apply to DK flame abilities

MercTheMage · February 2017

Other

Why is BSW so popular lately? It's been in the game for ages, I don't get why people only suddenly started using it.

Stopnaggin · February 2017

Vaoh wrote: »

Massive_Stain wrote: »

Nah. Too many nerfs floating around. People get strong in elder scrolls games. It just happens. Other people shouldn't cry foul about it imo.

ESO is quite different from other Elder Scrolls games....

This is a discussion on set balance, and how one set is simply the best right now and deserves to be toned down a tiny bit.

When and if they buff this one another will takes its place, there's always a bis set.

Izaki · February 2017

Yes - just nerf it somehow

cpuScientist wrote: »

It's OK for some sets to be better than others you know. We really need to stop asking for nerf this or that. But buff that it this. Buff julianos to be 350 spell damage for instance, this still wouldn't make it better than bsw on paper, but it would make them alot closer. But really BSW is just fine. It's a strong set that's not overly above and beyond. You can wear julianos and pull nearly the same number.

The only thing in this game that is OP is sharpened. Precise and nirnhoned need buffs more than anything else needs nerfs.

Not exactly. The difference between Julianos and BSW is like 3k+ DPS in a self buffed situation. In a trial situation with all the buffs the gap becomes way bigger.

Biro123 · February 2017

I really don't understand the no votes here. Especially those saying buff other sets too.
Surely if there were a number of other sets that were on-par with it - then that's not only better for the game, its better for build diversity, its better for gearing up (more chance to get a sharpened staff drop randomly for a useful set if there are a lot more useful sets).. yeah, you may take 2 mins longer to do a dungeon cos of a slight nerf.. but heck guys, you just got a CP increase.. tons of the vet dungeons are already soloable - you want it to be so they all are? Cos that's the way its goes with a 'no-nerf' mentality. Overland trash are almost 1-shot already..

Just wait till the new 'meta' sets come out with Morrowind - and another CP increase.. you'll only need to snap your fingers and every enemy in the zone dies.... be hardly any point playing then.. All because ppl cry about nerfs..

salmoncat33 · February 2017

I have only recently started to see bsw on most mag dps. I'm glad it's like this, so freaking tired of TBS we needed a change.

cpuScientist · February 2017

Other

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

cpuScientist wrote: »

It's OK for some sets to be better than others you know. We really need to stop asking for nerf this or that. But buff that it this. Buff julianos to be 350 spell damage for instance, this still wouldn't make it better than bsw on paper, but it would make them alot closer. But really BSW is just fine. It's a strong set that's not overly above and beyond. You can wear julianos and pull nearly the same number.

The only thing in this game that is OP is sharpened. Precise and nirnhoned need buffs more than anything else needs nerfs.

Not exactly. The difference between Julianos and BSW is like 3k+ DPS in a self buffed situation. In a trial situation with all the buffs the gap becomes way bigger.

It's not 3k. Or you'd did your rotation completely wrong the second time. The set is not going to turn 30k into 33k its not that much stronger.

cpuScientist · February 2017

Other

People give waaaaay to much credit to sets in this game... The only class that gets near the full benefit from the set is a DK. On them it's a bigger loss to use julianos. Especially since they have no execute, which results in drops of uptime.

DHale · February 2017

No

It's perfectly acceptable to have bis items that is reasonable to farm. Besides I do more damage with scathing mage than I have ever done with my bsw.

t3hdubzy · February 2017

So many post about uptime, in pve thats makes a difference but in pvp burst is king. Once its proc'd u can turn people into toast in 2 seconds.

srfrogg23 · February 2017

No

t3hdubzy wrote: »

So many post about uptime, in pve thats makes a difference but in pvp burst is king. Once its proc'd u can turn people into toast in 2 seconds.

And, it's light armor, so they can turn you into toast in 2 seconds at all times.

Izaki · February 2017

Yes - just nerf it somehow

cpuScientist wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

cpuScientist wrote: »

It's OK for some sets to be better than others you know. We really need to stop asking for nerf this or that. But buff that it this. Buff julianos to be 350 spell damage for instance, this still wouldn't make it better than bsw on paper, but it would make them alot closer. But really BSW is just fine. It's a strong set that's not overly above and beyond. You can wear julianos and pull nearly the same number.

The only thing in this game that is OP is sharpened. Precise and nirnhoned need buffs more than anything else needs nerfs.

Not exactly. The difference between Julianos and BSW is like 3k+ DPS in a self buffed situation. In a trial situation with all the buffs the gap becomes way bigger.

It's not 3k. Or you'd did your rotation completely wrong the second time. The set is not going to turn 30k into 33k its not that much stronger.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/318595/introduction-to-pve-damage-calculation-homestead/p1

Post #4, section 4.6.1, there's a comparison between sets namely (1) and (4). 2k difference between Julianos and BSW in a perfect rotation where everything is executed flawlessly. Add human error to it and you take that to around 2.5k. Add some RNG (like BSW being proc'ed for every single ultimate) and you get to 3k.

A mate of mine did a test for which I was applying Elemental Drain and Orbs, he did 85 sec with BSW and 93 sec with Julianos. Which is roughly a 3k difference (35.2k with BSW and 32.3k with Julianos). From his clips there wasn't any changes or screw ups in the rotation.

idk · February 2017

No

@Vaoh

I'd suggest actually using a set in a trial before suggesting a nerf and especially before making statements in how it works.

Your information is very much incorrect. BSW doesn't proc off CD which should be obvious based in the image you linked. Typical uptime is more like 55-60% making it only slightly better than julianos.

The only class that would have a higher uptime is a DK.

The only time one would an instant proc might happen is putting down blockade with it hitting 5 or more trash mobs which is not where one cares as much about the uptime.

Oh, and weapons for BSW, plan on farming for days as in days worth of time. 100 hours in CoA isn't unheard of when trying to get weapons.

It's sad seeing posts like this, that base their oppinion off minimal information

@IzakiBrotherSs 85-95 second parses are far to short to get worthwhile information. Also based on what your saying vMA weapons should be nerfed and that's very much not needed.

srfrogg23 · February 2017

No

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

cpuScientist wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

cpuScientist wrote: »

It's OK for some sets to be better than others you know. We really need to stop asking for nerf this or that. But buff that it this. Buff julianos to be 350 spell damage for instance, this still wouldn't make it better than bsw on paper, but it would make them alot closer. But really BSW is just fine. It's a strong set that's not overly above and beyond. You can wear julianos and pull nearly the same number.

The only thing in this game that is OP is sharpened. Precise and nirnhoned need buffs more than anything else needs nerfs.

Not exactly. The difference between Julianos and BSW is like 3k+ DPS in a self buffed situation. In a trial situation with all the buffs the gap becomes way bigger.

It's not 3k. Or you'd did your rotation completely wrong the second time. The set is not going to turn 30k into 33k its not that much stronger.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/318595/introduction-to-pve-damage-calculation-homestead/p1

Post #4, section 4.6.1, there's a comparison between sets namely (1) and (4). 2k difference between Julianos and BSW in a perfect rotation where everything is executed flawlessly. Add human error to it and you take that to around 2.5k. Add some RNG (like BSW being proc'ed for every single ultimate) and you get to 3k.

A mate of mine did a test for which I was applying Elemental Drain and Orbs, he did 85 sec with BSW and 93 sec with Julianos. Which is roughly a 3k difference (35.2k with BSW and 32.3k with Julianos). From his clips there wasn't any changes or screw ups in the rotation.

A whole 8 seconds...

NERF IT! NERF IT TO DUST! LET NONE SURVIVE!

GawdSB · February 2017

No

How about ZOS just buffs other sets giving us an actual variety of choices. Not on us if ZOS can't properly balance the sets.

HeroOfNone · February 2017

Yes - reduce Spell Damage benefit

I'd say chopping off spell damage off the top to lower it closer to other restrictive sets like spider cultist, light speaker, sword singer, sword dancer, or others would be in order. You could still keep it higher, so it's still considered top tier, but trim some off the top.

Otherwise they should buff up other sets, especially sets from harder content (trials, dlc dungeons, pvp, etc.). They don't need to give them more spell damage though, just added effects like more crit, resources, or proc effects to keep all in a reasonable progression balance. BSW should either be awarded from harder content or be a midtier reward, while trials gear would out perform.

Izaki · February 2017

Yes - just nerf it somehow

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

@Vaoh

I'd suggest actually using a set in a trial before suggesting a nerf and especially before making statements in how it works.

Your information is very much incorrect. BSW doesn't proc off CD which should be obvious based in the image you linked. Typical uptime is more like 55-60% making it only slightly better than julianos.

The only class that would have a higher uptime is a DK.

The only time one would an instant proc might happen is putting down blockade with it hitting 5 or more trash mobs which is not where one cares as much about the uptime.

Oh, and weapons for BSW, plan on farming for days as in days worth of time. 100 hours in CoA isn't unheard of when trying to get weapons.

It's sad seeing posts like this, that base their oppinion off minimal information

@IzakiBrotherSs 85-95 second parses are far to short to get worthwhile information. Also based on what your saying vMA weapons should be nerfed and that's very much not needed.

Not really the same as vMA weapons (the Daggers and Axes do need a nerf so that stamina can receive buffs elsewhere) as it is a whole 5 piece set. Sure Julianos can stay the way it is as it is a crafted set with only 6 traits. But other sets like Scathing Mage which have more or less the same purpose just don't perform nearly as well (except magblade because of a bug).

A magicka sorc with double inferno should reach at least 60% quite easily...

[Deleted User] · February 2017

The user and all related content has been deleted.

Oompuh · February 2017

No

Buff bad sets, Stop nerfing good sets.

Foxic · February 2017

Other

No, buff scathing to be usable by other classes instead of just on nb because it procs on path

DRXHarbinger · February 2017

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

@Vaoh

I'd suggest actually using a set in a trial before suggesting a nerf and especially before making statements in how it works.

Your information is very much incorrect. BSW doesn't proc off CD which should be obvious based in the image you linked. Typical uptime is more like 55-60% making it only slightly better than julianos.

The only class that would have a higher uptime is a DK.

The only time one would an instant proc might happen is putting down blockade with it hitting 5 or more trash mobs which is not where one cares as much about the uptime.

Oh, and weapons for BSW, plan on farming for days as in days worth of time. 100 hours in CoA isn't unheard of when trying to get weapons.

It's sad seeing posts like this, that base their oppinion off minimal information

@IzakiBrotherSs 85-95 second parses are far to short to get worthwhile information. Also based on what your saying vMA weapons should be nerfed and that's very much not needed.

Not really the same as vMA weapons (the Daggers and Axes do need a nerf so that stamina can receive buffs elsewhere) as it is a whole 5 piece set. Sure Julianos can stay the way it is as it is a crafted set with only 6 traits. But other sets like Scathing Mage which have more or less the same purpose just don't perform nearly as well (except magblade because of a bug).

A magicka sorc with double inferno should reach at least 60% quite easily...

They were nerfed by nearly 1k weapon damage. What more do you want?

dday3six · February 2017

No

So what's the purpose? Diversity for the sake of diversity? Even at an increase of 3k dps self buffed, which I dispute, but for the sake of argument will agree to. Group buffs have been drastically nerfed with the calculation changes to Warhorn. So that number will not go much higher in a group. It's not as if BSW is 2x the output of LoJ. It's only a marginal increase.

I don't think it's been said either that having one set at the top means that players don't need to have a different set for each character because they can just swap the one set between them all. Which massively cuts down on the need to farm when using multiple characters as well.

Izaki · February 2017

Yes - just nerf it somehow

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

@Vaoh

I'd suggest actually using a set in a trial before suggesting a nerf and especially before making statements in how it works.

Your information is very much incorrect. BSW doesn't proc off CD which should be obvious based in the image you linked. Typical uptime is more like 55-60% making it only slightly better than julianos.

The only class that would have a higher uptime is a DK.

The only time one would an instant proc might happen is putting down blockade with it hitting 5 or more trash mobs which is not where one cares as much about the uptime.

Oh, and weapons for BSW, plan on farming for days as in days worth of time. 100 hours in CoA isn't unheard of when trying to get weapons.

It's sad seeing posts like this, that base their oppinion off minimal information

@IzakiBrotherSs 85-95 second parses are far to short to get worthwhile information. Also based on what your saying vMA weapons should be nerfed and that's very much not needed.

Not really the same as vMA weapons (the Daggers and Axes do need a nerf so that stamina can receive buffs elsewhere) as it is a whole 5 piece set. Sure Julianos can stay the way it is as it is a crafted set with only 6 traits. But other sets like Scathing Mage which have more or less the same purpose just don't perform nearly as well (except magblade because of a bug).

A magicka sorc with double inferno should reach at least 60% quite easily...

They were nerfed by nearly 1k weapon damage. What more do you want?

To be nerfed by another 1k. Why?
So that stamina can receive a buff to the following:
- Cleave damage
- AoE damage
The most logical solution is to introduce some kind of a ground placed AoE DoT similar to Elemental Blockade.

With the vMA weapons and this DoT, stamina DPS will be far too strong. The only reason stamina DPS in trials is borderline viable, is the Maelstrom weapons. That just isn't right. Its pretty radical, but its just my opinion.

Izaki · February 2017

Yes - just nerf it somehow

dday3six wrote: »

So what's the purpose? Diversity for the sake of diversity? Even at an increase of 3k dps self buffed, which I dispute, but for the sake of argument will agree to. Group buffs have been drastically nerfed with the calculation changes to Warhorn. So that number will not go much higher in a group. It's not as if BSW is 2x the output of LoJ. It's only a marginal increase.

I don't think it's been said either that having one set at the top means that players don't need to have a different set for each character because they can just swap the one set between them all. Which massively cuts down on the need to farm when using multiple characters as well.

Try to find a parse that overcomes 50k DPS on a boss fight that includes Law of Julianos. There's a reason you don't see them.

HeroOfNone · February 2017

Yes - reduce Spell Damage benefit

Lets look at the difficulty of content and the progression:

Overworld -> crafting -> PVP -> dungeons -> vet dungeons -> trials -> Vet DLC dungeons -> Vet DSA -> Vet MA -> Vet AA, Vet Hel Ra -> Vet SO -> Vet Maw.

Burning Spell Weave drops in COA 1 & 2, the 4th and 5th level difficulty to aquire. Yet once you get it there is little more until trials, vet MA, or Vet Maw that helps you get stronger, and you keep BSW the entire time to be top tier DPS. That means there is little progression to Magicka DPS except achievements.

Simply boosting other sets at this point will lead to power creep overall for so many other sets, assuming we boost things to their difficulty. Nerf ing BSW, even minor nerfs, will start making other high difficulty sets more attractive.