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Nerf Burning Spellweave? (Trigger Warning)
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Vaoh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Yes - lower Proc ChanceSlightly overperforming, as a proper rotation on a non-mDK class can still net you 60% uptime, which comes as 360 spell damage. Julianos is at 299. We can either have to rework a lot of sets or tone down the proc chance of this one a bit.
15% proc chance would still make it more than doable to achieve over 50% uptime, which will still make it a superior choice when compared to Julianos, but with the added constraint of fire damage - which rewards proper play, but as it currently stands, it's too easy to proc.
Exactly my thoughts.
15% just seems very reasonable yet still amazing and usually BiS.
I also still want to buff a lot of underperforming sets to make them possibly viable, but not to the current level of BSW. Just too strong atm. Every set would have to be buffed to reach the current BSW if it is left at 20% and it never works out well when changes like that happen.
Edited by Vaoh on February 22, 2017 10:57AM0 -
Edziu✭✭✭✭✭
✭Yes - just nerf it somehowFloppyTouch wrote: »And the nerf mdk threads start
idk if you know or no...but everyone who use atleast force pusle is viable to use this set3 -
Biro123✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Cherryblossom wrote: »How about you stop asking for things to be nerf'd and ask for things to be improved so they compete in a similar manner.
Think of the Dev's!!!!!
They could spend an hour nerfing one set... or they could spend 1000's of hours buffing every other set instead.. result would be the same. Not to mention the risk that when they touch a set they could break it.. I'd rather they reduced that risk...
But seriously, I think BSW won't be BiS anymore once Morrowind goes live. There will be newer, better sets for everyone to have fun farming
Minalan owes me a beer.
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Minie Mo - Stam/Magblade - DC
Woody Ron - Stamplar - DC
Aidee - Magsorc - DC
Notadorf - Stamsorc - DC
Khattman Doo - Stamblade - Relegated to Crafter, cos AD.7 -
Vaoh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Yes - lower Proc ChanceFloppyTouch wrote: »FloppyTouch wrote: »FloppyTouch wrote: »And the nerf mdk threads start
No.
Don't derail my thread. I'm actually trying to gauge the opinion of the forum community to figure out where people stand on this particular idea.
It's not a derail it's the truth a nerf to this set is a huge nerf to mdk in pvp
Again, no.
Magicka DK is the singular class spec that would never feel a difference if the proc chance was reduced by 5%, since they apply so many Flame DoTs.
They'd do just as fine in PvP as well as PvE. Other classes would feel it a tiny bit, specifically Mag NB/Sorc.
And if that's considered a "huge nerf" to Mag DKs there is nothing in the game that could ever help you play well tbh,
Again no when did you say no to me the first time? And ppl are clearly against this look at ur damn poll
For different reasons lmao. This poll is PvE-oriented as well.
No one is crying "huge nerf" to Mag Dks except you. xD1 -
psychotic13✭✭✭✭✭
✭Yes - just nerf it somehowMan, this forum is full of idiots to be fair. It's clearly better then every other set, no one actually cares about balance they just care about how well they can do, and OP sets make you perform better so everyone starts to cry when a non biased view is given12 -
dposdb14_ESO✭✭✭NoThere will always be a bis set. If you nerf this set then everyone will start wearing a different set like julianos. After some time we'll see a thread about how everyone is wearing that set and that it needs to be nerfed. Even if you got the numbers to be almost identical someone will still run the numbers and show that x set has the advantage.
Every mmo sees this. There will be gear that is fotm, it will get nerfed or other gear will get buffed and then other gear will be the new fotm. MMO's don't do balance, they do revolving doors. It's all about what is the fotm this time.
Edited to fix a typo.Edited by dposdb14_ESO on February 22, 2017 11:09AM3 -
Vaoh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Yes - lower Proc Chancepsychotic13 wrote: »Man, this forum is full of idiots to be fair. It's clearly better then every other set, no one actually cares about balance they just care about how well they can do, and OP sets make you perform better so everyone starts to cry when a non biased view is given
Yeah
what can you do though.
If people want to keep it as 100% BiS over everything else to justify their grind, even though it's terrible for one set to actually be better than all others and utterly ruin the point of every other Magicka DPS set, then so be it. That's what the forum community wants. I'm surprised by it too but whatevs
Edited by Vaoh on February 22, 2017 11:12AM0 -
cyberjanet✭✭✭✭✭NoThere is a body of opinion that it would be better to buff other sets, and not nerf BSW. I agree with that. I think Grothdarr works well with BSW too.
I'm trying to build a Thunder sorceror, trying out Netch's Touch (don't have enough pieces), Mother's Sorrow (don't have enough pieces), Treasure Hunter (got hardly anything). There has to be a way, but everything I try gives worse damage than her Julianos.
There really needs to be a ton of really good armour sets that you can't wait to try out in various combinations with different monster sets and have something actually work and be awesome.
However, I'm one of those *** people who play to have fun. I don't do the competitive *** and I doubt I'll ever want to waste the playing time I have soloing vMA when there are real people I enjoy playing with more.Favourite NPC: Wine-For-All
Mostly PC-EU , with a lonely little guy on NA.2 -
Vaoh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Yes - lower Proc Chancedposdb14_ESO wrote: »There will always be a bis set. If you nerf this set then everyone will start wearing a different set like julianos. After some time we'll see a thread about how everyone is wearing that set and that it needs to be nerfed. Even if you got the numbers to be almost identical someone will still run the numbers and show that x set has the advantage.
Every mmo sees this. There will be gear that is fotm, it will get nerfed or other gear will get buffed and then other gear will be the new fotm. MMO's don't do balance, they do revolving doors. It's all about what is the fotm this time.
Edited to fix a typo.
Not if things are balanced smartly. A slight nerf to BSW, buffs to many other sets, and then testing is all you need. When you get basically the same DPS with a handful of setups with their rotations done correctly you have many BiS sets to run.
Not more complicated than that. BSW gets you the best DPS practically for every high DPS setup atm.
We always see heavy-handed changes though. Viper's Sting had its proc damage buffed by like 4x its original value when it increased to CP160. Stuff like that.Edited by Vaoh on February 22, 2017 11:17AM1 -
Olupajmibanan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭NoThey could spend an hour nerfing one set... or they could spend 1000's of hours buffing every other set instead.. result would be the same.
Result won't be the same: overall group dps loss is the result when nerfing the most popular set without bringing viable alternatives.
Reducing the proc chance of bsw would result only in three things:
a) every single magicka sorcerer would have to run pets (necropotence builds are already the best since u13, bsw at least allow us to run something different without freaking pets)
b) templars would have really bad times in terms of uptime so they'll switch to Julianos.
c) Nightblades would somehow manage with Scathing Mage (or alternatively necropotence).
DKs would not be affected at all (they have so many sources for procing it)
This is what we call balance? Nerf templars even more and force sorcerers to use pets? Thanks, no. Nerf BSW only if others sets are toned up.1 -
dposdb14_ESO✭✭✭Nopsychotic13 wrote: »Man, this forum is full of idiots to be fair. It's clearly better then every other set, no one actually cares about balance they just care about how well they can do, and OP sets make you perform better so everyone starts to cry when a non biased view is given
Yeah what can you do though.
If people want to keep it as 100% BiS over everything else to justify their grind, even though it's terrible for one set to actually be better than all others and utterly ruin the point of every other Magicka DPS set, then so be it. That's what the forum community wants. I'm surprised by it too but whatevs
I think it's more about the fact we know the sets won't ever be balanced. It's near impossible unless they are all the same. And once everyone sees that a particular set parses better than the others, no matter how small the difference is, then everyone will be running it. A good example of this is IA gear vs Moondancer (from a mag sorc view). The difference is really minimal but if everyone has access to the 2 sets then you will only see moondancer equipped.
I would love to see sets balanced and have a variety of options, but I've been playing mmo's long enough to know that it won't happen, just like I know pvp will never be balanced either.2 -
Vaoh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Yes - lower Proc ChanceOlupajmibanan wrote: »They could spend an hour nerfing one set... or they could spend 1000's of hours buffing every other set instead.. result would be the same.
Result won't be the same: overall group dps loss is the result when nerfing the most popular set without bringing viable alternatives.
Reducing the proc chance of bsw would result only in three things:
a) every single magicka sorcerer would have to run pets (necropotence builds are already the best since u13, bsw at least allow us to run something different without freaking pets)
b) templars would have really bad times in terms of uptime so they'll switch to Julianos.
c) Nightblades would somehow manage with Scathing Mage (or alternatively necropotence).
DKs would not be affected at all (they have so many sources for procing it)
This is what we call balance? Nerf templars even more and force sorcerers to use pets? Thanks, no. Nerf BSW only if others sets are toned up.
Reducing proc chance of Burning Spellweave from 20% to 15% and balancing it (though it'd still be BiS) would ruin everything?
That's just not true at all imo. You're overexagerating the nerf by a lot.4 -
leothedino✭✭✭✭NoOlupajmibanan wrote: »This may sound stupid, but I would rather buffed others set to be more in line with BSW.
Nerfing bsw would result in no good option at all (well, excluding necropotence).
I am considering BSW as benchmark for balancing others sets or creating new.
FFS!
I made a thread about buffing all of the alternative sets (Destructive Mage, Overwhelming Surge, etc) to the level of Burning Spellweave, and people said that instead we shouldslightly nerf Burning Spellweave so it's all equal.
Now I create this thread and everyone wants to keep their BSW as an absolute BiS because of the very reason that it outclasses everything else.
I don't get it
Because, I don't know, we didn't comment on that thread? Careful how you throw the 'everyone' word around...1 -
Olupajmibanan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭NoReducing proc chance of Burning Spellweave from 20% to 15% and balancing it (though it'd still be BiS) would ruin everything?
That's just not true at all imo. You're overexagerating the nerf by a lot.
So are you trying to state that your suggested change would not force Sorcerers to run pets? Honest answer please.
Necropotence is so much better than BSW even now. And with the hange to pets, they are tanky enough to survive the encounters. But not everybody wants to run pets, for what we have BSW (worse alternative but at least viable, in terms of dps)Edited by Olupajmibanan on February 22, 2017 11:24AM0 -
Vaoh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Yes - lower Proc Chancedposdb14_ESO wrote: »psychotic13 wrote: »Man, this forum is full of idiots to be fair. It's clearly better then every other set, no one actually cares about balance they just care about how well they can do, and OP sets make you perform better so everyone starts to cry when a non biased view is given
Yeah what can you do though.
If people want to keep it as 100% BiS over everything else to justify their grind, even though it's terrible for one set to actually be better than all others and utterly ruin the point of every other Magicka DPS set, then so be it. That's what the forum community wants. I'm surprised by it too but whatevs
I think it's more about the fact we know the sets won't ever be balanced. It's near impossible unless they are all the same. And once everyone sees that a particular set parses better than the others, no matter how small the difference is, then everyone will be running it. A good example of this is IA gear vs Moondancer (from a mag sorc view). The difference is really minimal but if everyone has access to the 2 sets then you will only see moondancer equipped.
I would love to see sets balanced and have a variety of options, but I've been playing mmo's long enough to know that it won't happen, just like I know pvp will never be balanced either.
Give me a break.
IA looks terrible.
Moondancer looks AWESOME.
Moondancer also gives better sustain via Necrotic Orb ticks and more Max Magicka resource and minimally more damage over IA
Moondancer is legitamately better and more awesome (the important part) than IA..... plus with Homestead nerfing damage based off Crit, Moondancer is easily better now by a larger (still small) margin.
There are many benefits. I'd run Moondancer even if it was slightly worse than IA based strictly off the appearance.Edited by Vaoh on February 22, 2017 11:23AM0 -
Lore_lai✭✭✭✭✭OtherOther.
It's ridiculous that BSW is BiS for every other build out there.
However. I would not like to see it nerfed and leave it at that.
I like diversity. I would like to see other stuff be buffed to be on par. Just like I would like to see traits get buffed over just blanket nefing Sharpened.
One and only one thing being BiS is just utterly boring AF. I would also like to see a more surgical approach than the general cleaver-smack that ZoS usually does.
Also ZoS, please make Stam builds relevant in Trials. Respectfully, a magicka player.
***
@RinaldoGandolphi - SoS is *not* close to BSW. Considering PvP also, BSW wins by a lot because it buffs your overall Spell DMG (including your healing etc., ofc) and it gets % increase by Major/Minor Sorcery. SoS only buffs your fire DMG and is not influenced by % spell DMG increase. And BSW has really good uptime.
Just like every other set out there that buffs base spell/wpn DMG over just physical /ele/mag DMG - it is superior in each and every way.2 -
Edziu✭✭✭✭✭
✭Yes - just nerf it somehowArtemiisia wrote: »nerf, nerf threads !
its impossible when people dont want to buff other buff threadsEdited by Edziu on February 22, 2017 12:04PM0 -
RoyalPink06✭✭✭✭✭NoPlease no
I must be doing it wrong because even with BSW, my spell damage is too low and my dps is too low. That DPS dummy got me mad discouraged and I don't think I could stand anymore nerfs. Happy to accept a buff to other sets, though.NA PS40 -
Sallington✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Stop nerfing dropped sets, start buffing crafted sets.Daggerfall Covenant
Sallington - Templar - Stormproof - Prefect II
Cobham - Sorcerer - Stormproof - First Sergeant II
Shallington - NightBlade - Lieutenant |
Balmorah - Templar - Sergeant ||5 -
Patouf✭✭✭NoBSW IS NOT A BiS FOR EVERY MAGICKA DPS SETUP ! Stop listening, reading, watching sometimes use your brain.
Necropotence is very very very good for some builds, Scathing mage is so OP with some builds. Netch can be so good on mSorc.
The all difference between this sets is around 1% to 6% ! That's all !
If, BSW deserves a nerf, why not for the other good sets ?Edited by Patouf on February 22, 2017 12:14PMRuined Laggy Broken GameSithis & Psijic OrderSithis and spacetime. From nothing to everything.Dark, Aurbis, Aetherius-Oblivion, Mundus, Nirn, Tamriel. Dark again, something else.Dark is categorical, the absolute zero.VØID1 -
Duiwel✭✭✭✭✭
✭#Bring back Julianos!@Duiwel:Join ORDER OF SITHIS We're recruiting! PC EU"Dear Brother. I do not spread rumours. I create them..."0 -
Vaoh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Yes - lower Proc ChanceOlupajmibanan wrote: »Reducing proc chance of Burning Spellweave from 20% to 15% and balancing it (though it'd still be BiS) would ruin everything?
That's just not true at all imo. You're overexagerating the nerf by a lot.
So are you trying to state that your suggested change would not force Sorcerers to run pets? Honest answer please.
Necropotence is so much better than BSW even now. And with the hange to pets, they are tanky enough to survive the encounters. But not everybody wants to run pets, for what we have BSW (worse alternative but at least viable, in terms of dps)
No, it wouldn't.
Currently, slotting Summon Volatile Familiar instead of Bound Aegis will provide better DPS thanks to changes withHomestead.
The pet can die, and it does die in many situations as a DPS, resulting in a DPS loss. Due to this, running Burning Spellweave is still the normal setup for pulling the best DPS over Necropotence (loses strength when pet is dead). This won't change with a miniscule nerf to BSW.
Necropotence is only truly better than BSW by a decent margin when you are running solo and need your pet to tank+big shields. 100% different than endgame PvE DPS.
Besides the fact that BSW (all Mag DPS BiS set) is superior in DPS than Necropotence (the set made for pets) on a pet sorcs is lame anyway.
BSW should also never be described as "at least viable". It's OP asf right now
Edited by Vaoh on February 22, 2017 12:12PM1 -
Patouf✭✭✭No
Yep, somtimes, some orignal builds can reach good dps, the meta is not the all thing you can do, use your brain, stop being a follower =DRuined Laggy Broken GameSithis & Psijic OrderSithis and spacetime. From nothing to everything.Dark, Aurbis, Aetherius-Oblivion, Mundus, Nirn, Tamriel. Dark again, something else.Dark is categorical, the absolute zero.VØID0 -
Vaoh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Yes - lower Proc ChanceBSW IS NOT A BiS FOR EVERY MAGICKA DPS SETUP ! Stop listening, reading, watching sometimes use your brain.
Necropotence is very very very good for some builds, Scathing mage is so OP with some builds. Netch can be so good on mSorc.
The all difference between this sets is around 1% to 6% ! That's all !
If, BSW deserves a nerf, why not for the other good sets ?
You just put Netch next to BSW, Necropotence, and Scathing. Then said the damage is between 1-6% (huge range with obviously zero testing).
"Stop listening, reading, watching sometimes use your brain".
This post..... it is wrong on so many levels xDEdited by Vaoh on February 22, 2017 12:18PM2 -
Patouf✭✭✭NoBSW IS NOT A BiS FOR EVERY MAGICKA DPS SETUP ! Stop listening, reading, watching sometimes use your brain.
Necropotence is very very very good for some builds, Scathing mage is so OP with some builds. Netch can be so good on mSorc.
The all difference between this sets is around 1% to 6% ! That's all !
If, BSW deserves a nerf, why not for the other good sets ?
Netch is OP
"Stop listening, reading, watching sometimes use your brain".
This post..... it is wrong on so many levels xD
Really, show me how am I wrong =D ? I am listening =DRuined Laggy Broken GameSithis & Psijic OrderSithis and spacetime. From nothing to everything.Dark, Aurbis, Aetherius-Oblivion, Mundus, Nirn, Tamriel. Dark again, something else.Dark is categorical, the absolute zero.VØID0 -
VampiricByNature✭✭✭✭NoI hate to see nerfs. It's very hard on less capable players. Good players can handle nerfs- adjust and keep going. People who are barely squeaking by only experience an even greater challenge from nerfs.
I like that BSW can be farmed by anyone, with or without a group to help.
Buff pve Magicka nbs and then we can talk about nerfing anything. Sorcs and dks might be OP right now but do you honestly want to take more dps away from magblades?2 -
Lore_lai✭✭✭✭✭Other
You know, I would have actually tried to reply to you if you wouldn't have tried to throw in a "veiled" insult in there.
Good day.1
This discussion has been closed.