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Nerf Burning Spellweave? (Trigger Warning)
Vaoh
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EDIT: 350+ Votes already! Very nice to have this many people pitch in. I think from these results we definitely can see how the Forum community typically feels about Burnimg Spellweave now.
*(Trigger Warning)*
Lots of people are getting really triggered at the very thought of a set they use getting nerfed, and are scarred from past nerfs. I've added a trigger warning in the thread title now as a heads up lol. Comment without acting as if the sky is falling please! This thread was created to gauge the opinion of the community on this matter, not for the rivers of salt to overflow with exagerations and hatred over balance changes that won't benefit them.
*(Trigger Warning)*
Result: Seems that overall people don't want any changes at all made to Burning Spellweave.
It definitely entails much less need to grind if you have multiple DPS characters so that's a huge plus
Does Burning Spellweave (BSW) deserve a nerf?
In PvE, it is BiS for nearly all Magicka DPS setups. This set provides massive Spell Damage and often procs right off cooldown since it has a 20% proc chance..... on dealing fire damage.
It can be slotted and procced by using BSW weapons as well, letting you to utilize it in many flexible ways on your build.
Even in PvP it has use, being arguably BiS for a Magicka DK build due to the huge burst potential it grants you for a reliable 8/12 seconds every proc cycle. It outclasses Sun very easily.
Personally I think it deserves a minor nerf (reduce proc chance to 15%) to bring it in line with many alternative sets but still have it be fantastic. I also think a lot of cool sets like Destructive Mage or Overwhelming Surge should get buffed to be on par to sets like Burning Spellweave for PvE.
Note: I farmed it out too.
As someone who knows all about set balance and BiS since I run vMoL HM, Burning Spellweave is always the go-to set. Just too much damage to pass up. A lower proc chance would still leave it great (and BiS on Mag Dks which makes sense) but no longer stronger than all other alternatives.
What do you think?
Edited by Vaoh on February 23, 2017 10:02AM *(Trigger Warning)*
Lots of people are getting really triggered at the very thought of a set they use getting nerfed, and are scarred from past nerfs. I've added a trigger warning in the thread title now as a heads up lol. Comment without acting as if the sky is falling please! This thread was created to gauge the opinion of the community on this matter, not for the rivers of salt to overflow with exagerations and hatred over balance changes that won't benefit them.
*(Trigger Warning)*
Result: Seems that overall people don't want any changes at all made to Burning Spellweave.
It definitely entails much less need to grind if you have multiple DPS characters so that's a huge plus
Does Burning Spellweave (BSW) deserve a nerf?
In PvE, it is BiS for nearly all Magicka DPS setups. This set provides massive Spell Damage and often procs right off cooldown since it has a 20% proc chance..... on dealing fire damage.
It can be slotted and procced by using BSW weapons as well, letting you to utilize it in many flexible ways on your build.
Even in PvP it has use, being arguably BiS for a Magicka DK build due to the huge burst potential it grants you for a reliable 8/12 seconds every proc cycle. It outclasses Sun very easily.
Personally I think it deserves a minor nerf (reduce proc chance to 15%) to bring it in line with many alternative sets but still have it be fantastic. I also think a lot of cool sets like Destructive Mage or Overwhelming Surge should get buffed to be on par to sets like Burning Spellweave for PvE.
Note: I farmed it out too.
As someone who knows all about set balance and BiS since I run vMoL HM, Burning Spellweave is always the go-to set. Just too much damage to pass up. A lower proc chance would still leave it great (and BiS on Mag Dks which makes sense) but no longer stronger than all other alternatives.
What do you think?
Nerf Burning Spellweave? (Trigger Warning) 483 votes
Yes - reduce Spell Damage benefit
7%
35 votes
Yes - lower Proc Chance
6%
32 votes
Yes - just nerf it somehow
9%
44 votes
No
69%
335 votes
Other
7%
37 votes
2
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Massive_Stain✭✭✭✭Nah. Too many nerfs floating around. People get strong in elder scrolls games. It just happens. Other people shouldn't cry foul about it imo.PC: CP 1200+ DroDest, Bringer of light
PS4: CP 1500+ Dro Dest, SoTN, Bringer of light, CragHMs, EoF, IR, TTT
Xbox: CP 450 Fungal Grotto 1 HM10 -
Vaoh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Yes - lower Proc ChanceMassive_Stain wrote: »Nah. Too many nerfs floating around. People get strong in elder scrolls games. It just happens. Other people shouldn't cry foul about it imo.
ESO is quite different from other Elder Scrolls games....
This is a discussion on set balance, and how one set is simply the best right now and deserves to be toned down a tiny bit.9 -
Tryxus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭OtherBuff crafted sets to be stronger"Stand strong, stay true and shelter all."
Tryxus - Guardian of the Green - Warden - PC/EU60 -
leothedino✭✭✭✭NoI really enjoy the set, I like working for the proc, but sadly I can't hang around as a Mag-sorc DD on my back bar forever waiting for the proc, before I need to swap out to main and my lightning moondancer build. I am not a DK, so the DPS loss of a 10% proc is going to impact me heavily and as you put it, for magicka builds, this is pretty meta.
If the nerf would come this side of Morrowind, I would be flatly pretty annoyed. Maybe nerf it for Morrowind? When I don't have to redo all the my legendary gear?1 -
Olupajmibanan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭NoThis may sound stupid, but I would rather buffed others set to be more in line with BSW.
Nerfing bsw would result in no good option at all (well, excluding necropotence).
I am considering BSW as benchmark for balancing others sets or creating new.
Suggested proc chance is a bad idea:
Sorcerers would change to necropotence and will be completely forced to use pets (even bigger dps)
Nightblades would switch to scathing mage (at certain uptime beats BSW even now).
DKs would stick with BSW and reducing proc chance would not significantly change their uptime on it.
And templars? They will be the only ones completely struck down by the suggested change. Uptime on BSW would be much lower for them and they have no good replacement.
Edited by Olupajmibanan on February 22, 2017 10:35AM11 -
Tommy_The_Gun✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Yes - just nerf it somehowJust imagine how different Cyrodiil PvP would be if gear set bonuses (and even racial passives) ware disabled. The current problem is that PvP has too many variables, thus it is almost impossible to predict and balance it...1 -
Vaoh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Yes - lower Proc ChanceBuff crafted sets to be stronger
Many crafted sets are really weak and definitely need buffs. Pelinal's Aptitude in particular needs to equalize Critical Chance/Damage so Hybrids can work strongly imo. Something along those lines.
If you're referring to Hunding's/Julianos though I have to disagree. They are already strong. It'd be pointless if BiS gear was craftable in like 5min for free, while the dropped sets were all weaker.
Twice-Born Star was in a great spot before Homestead but was unfortunately (and indirectly) nerfed
Edited by Vaoh on February 22, 2017 10:28AM4 -
DRXHarbinger✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭No. Buff scathing mage again, buff Julianos and others. Stop with the nerf cries.PC Master Race
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Down With BOP!15 -
Vaoh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Yes - lower Proc ChanceOlupajmibanan wrote: »This may sound stupid, but I would rather buffed others set to be more in line with BSW.
Nerfing bsw would result in no good option at all (well, excluding necropotence).
I am considering BSW as benchmark for balancing others sets or creating new.
FFS!
I made a thread about buffing all of the alternative sets (Destructive Mage, Overwhelming Surge, etc) to the level of Burning Spellweave, and people said that instead we shouldslightly nerf Burning Spellweave so it's all equal.
Now I create this thread and everyone wants to keep their BSW as an absolute BiS because of the very reason that it outclasses everything else.
I don't get it
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Cherryblossom✭✭✭✭✭
✭OtherHow about you stop asking for things to be nerf'd and ask for things to be improved so they compete in a similar manner.11 -
Tommy_The_Gun✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Yes - just nerf it somehowBuff crafted sets to be stronger
Many crafted sets are really weak and definitely need buffs. Pelinal's Aptitude in particular needs to equalize Critical Chance/Damage so Hybrids can work strongly imo. Something along those lines.
If you're referring to Hunding's/Julianos though I have to disagree. They are already strong. It'd be pointless if BiS gear was craftable in like 5min for free, while the dropped sets were all weaker.
Twice-Born Star was in a great spot before Homestead but was unfortunately (and indirectly) nerfed
The thing that is incredibly bad about PvP is that in order to stay "competitive" towards other players it require weeks if not moths of preparation, and a lot of luck to grind BiS gear. And this is one of the reasons why PvP is not that popular...
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Vaoh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Yes - lower Proc ChanceCherryblossom wrote: »How about you stop asking for things to be nerf'd and ask for things to be improved so they compete in a similar manner.
I did, and I think a ton of other sets need buffs as already stated.
But when there's an outlier like Burning Spellweave that has an insanely easy proc chance with a massive Spell Damage benefit and EVERYONE uses it..... well it speaks for itself.
Lowering the proc chance to like 15% would in itself bring it in line with other sets, though still leave it BiS on most builds. I grinded it out too and I'd still used it if its proc chance was rebalanced to 15%. This is just balancing the game.
Edited by Vaoh on February 22, 2017 10:38AM0 -
DRXHarbinger✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Olupajmibanan wrote: »This may sound stupid, but I would rather buffed others set to be more in line with BSW.
Nerfing bsw would result in no good option at all (well, excluding necropotence).
I am considering BSW as benchmark for balancing others sets or creating new.
FFS!
I made a thread about buffing all of the alternative sets (Destructive Mage, Overwhelming Surge, etc) to the level of Burning Spellweave, and people said that instead we shouldslightly nerf Burning Spellweave so it's all equal.
Now I create this thread and everyone wants to keep their BSW as an absolute BiS because of the very reason that it outclasses everything else.
I don't get it
We love to disagree on here dude.
Some sets just need a slight buff that's all. You were 100% spot on about scathing mage in last post. That's exactly what they need. Both sets are so similar and just as easy to proc and maintain. But bsw has a higher up time and is more powerful. But only slightly.
Destructive Mage is pretty op. Sure it has a big cool down. But have you ever tried running with 10 people using lit staffs and this set in pvp. It's like something from ghost busters. Get 10 magdks and run it with elegant everyone goes kaboom....but that's the only decent use I've found for it.PC Master Race
1001CP
8 Flawless Toons, all Classes.
Master Angler
Dro-M'artha Destroyer (at last)
Tamriel Hero
Grand Overlord
Every Skyshard
Down With BOP!0 -
RoyJade✭✭✭✭✭
✭OtherBSW is only "slightly" better than Julianos (the difference is not that huge, even if noticeable), so I don't think it deserve a nerf. Tough, other sets need a serious buff.
I would love to see a proper lightning set as useful as it, a ice set with the same overall power (and guardian?) and a "magic" set. All may have similar mechanisms, but they also can have different mechanism with same overall power. And of course, more stamina set with both damage boost and group utility.
So, IMO BSW is fine. Just a little better than the best crafted set is perfect. We need more set like this, who are BIS/nearly BIS but not absolutely necessary.1 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭NoCherryblossom wrote: »How about you stop asking for things to be nerf'd and ask for things to be improved so they compete in a similar manner.
I did, and I think a ton of other sets need buffs as already stated.
But when there's an outlier like Burning Spellweave that has an insanely easy proc chance with a massive Spell Damage benefit and EVERYONE uses it..... well it speaks for itself.
Lowering the proc chance to like 15% would in itself bring it in line with other sets, though still leave it BiS on most builds. I grinded it out too and I'd still used it if its proc chance was rebalanced to 15%. This is just balancing the game.
There will always be one set that everyone uses. There is no way to have multiple options. If you nerf BSW, 100% of magicka users will wear Julianos.2 -
acw37162✭✭✭✭✭
✭NoI would like to see a Inferno Staff as a named weapon on one boss, but I would also like to that for several different sets that have a ridiculous weapon grind (sword dancer, automaton, and Overwhelming Surge)
I do however think Overwhelming Surge as well as other IC sets could use a buff.
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Vaoh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Yes - lower Proc ChanceBSW is only "slightly" better than Julianos (the difference is not that huge, even if noticeable), so I don't think it deserve a nerf. Tough, other sets need a serious buff.
I would love to see a proper lightning set as useful as it, a ice set with the same overall power (and guardian?) and a "magic" set. All may have similar mechanisms, but they also can have different mechanism with same overall power. And of course, more stamina set with both damage boost and group utility.
So, IMO BSW is fine. Just a little better than the best crafted set is perfect. We need more set like this, who are BIS/nearly BIS but not absolutely necessary.
I 100% agree with you about getting a similar Lightning and Ice equivalent. I'd legit be so happy if that happened.... don't hype me
And yeah I mainly want to see a ton of sets buffed. BSW would be more balanced if it was 15% though imo. Just my thoughts on it at least.0 -
psychotic13✭✭✭✭✭
✭Yes - just nerf it somehowI use it myself, but when one set outclasses everything for all magicka classes it's clearly over performing.
Like @Vaoh said, this isn't about stamina vs magicka it's about general balance having one set superior to all others is not balance.6 -
Vaoh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Yes - lower Proc ChanceMLGProPlayer wrote: »Cherryblossom wrote: »How about you stop asking for things to be nerf'd and ask for things to be improved so they compete in a similar manner.
I did, and I think a ton of other sets need buffs as already stated.
But when there's an outlier like Burning Spellweave that has an insanely easy proc chance with a massive Spell Damage benefit and EVERYONE uses it..... well it speaks for itself.
Lowering the proc chance to like 15% would in itself bring it in line with other sets, though still leave it BiS on most builds. I grinded it out too and I'd still used it if its proc chance was rebalanced to 15%. This is just balancing the game.
There will always be one set that everyone uses. There is no way to have multiple options. If you nerf BSW, 100% of magicka users will wear Julianos.
Not true. If the nerf is small enough, and other sets are brought in line, balancing is relatively simple. They just need balancing.
Equip sets and run your rotation. If all sets perform within like 100 DPS of each other then they are balanced and you can pick whichever you have more fun running. Atm this is not the case as many sets need buffs and BSW is inherently too strong for other sets to surpass it due to the high uptime (20% proc chance causes this).
Edited by Vaoh on February 22, 2017 10:45AM0 -
RinaldoGandolphi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Between BSW and SOS should be very close. There is a 12 sec period you won't have the BSW buff,(SOS makes up for it somewhat during this period) and the SOS buff is up all the time. BSW is slightly better, but it's not game breaking. I'd say BSW has a 6-9% advantage over SOS on a magdk which is fair considering the grind to get the BSW pieces you want that's fair.
BSW is a royal pain to get the pieces with the right traits. I'd lean towards leaving it alone. That's just meRinaldo Gandolphi-Breton Sorcerer Daggerfall Covenant
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Vaoh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Yes - lower Proc ChanceFloppyTouch wrote: »And the nerf mdk threads start
No.
Don't derail my thread. I'm actually trying to gauge the opinion of the forum community to figure out where people stand on this particular idea.0 -
Vaoh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Yes - lower Proc ChanceRinaldoGandolphi wrote: »Between BSW and SOS should be very close. There is a 12 sec period you won't have the BSW buff,(SOS makes up for it somewhat during this period) and the SOS buff is up all the time. BSW is slightly better, but it's not game breaking. I'd say BSW has a 6-9% advantage over SOS on a magdk which is fair considering the grind to get the BSW pieces you want that's fair.
BSW is a royal pain to get the pieces with the right traits. I'd lean towards leaving it alone. That's just me
Totally fair. The way I've seen it is that BSW also lets you time Ults for extra burst since you gain bursts of Spell Damage. Makes well-timed Ults much more effective.0 -
FloppyTouch✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭NoFloppyTouch wrote: »And the nerf mdk threads start
No.
Don't derail my thread. I'm actually trying to gauge the opinion of the forum community to figure out where people stand on this particular idea.
It's not a derail it's the truth a nerf to this set is a huge nerf to mdk in pvp0 -
Vaoh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Yes - lower Proc ChanceFloppyTouch wrote: »FloppyTouch wrote: »And the nerf mdk threads start
No.
Don't derail my thread. I'm actually trying to gauge the opinion of the forum community to figure out where people stand on this particular idea.
It's not a derail it's the truth a nerf to this set is a huge nerf to mdk in pvp
Again, no.
Magicka DK is the singular class spec that would never feel a difference if the proc chance was reduced by 5%, since they apply so many Flame DoTs.
They'd do just as fine in PvP as well as PvE. Other classes would feel it a tiny bit, specifically Mag NB/Sorc.
And if that's considered a "huge nerf" to Mag DKs there is nothing in the game that could ever help you play well tbh.
Edited by Vaoh on February 22, 2017 10:54AM5 -
Asmael✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Yes - lower Proc ChanceSlightly overperforming, as a proper rotation on a non-mDK class can still net you 60% uptime, which comes as 360 spell damage. Julianos is at 299. We can either have to rework a lot of sets or tone down the proc chance of this one a bit.
15% proc chance would still make it more than doable to achieve over 50% uptime, which will still make it a superior choice when compared to Julianos, but with the added constraint of fire damage - which rewards proper play, but as it currently stands, it's too easy to proc.PC EU - Zahraji of the Void, aka "Kitty", the fluffiest salmon genocider in town.
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FloppyTouch✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭NoFloppyTouch wrote: »FloppyTouch wrote: »And the nerf mdk threads start
No.
Don't derail my thread. I'm actually trying to gauge the opinion of the forum community to figure out where people stand on this particular idea.
It's not a derail it's the truth a nerf to this set is a huge nerf to mdk in pvp
Again, no.
Magicka DK is the singular class spec that would never feel a difference if the proc chance was reduced by 5%, since they apply so many Flame DoTs.
They'd do just as fine in PvP as well as PvE. Other classes would feel it a tiny bit, specifically Mag NB/Sorc.
And if that's considered a "huge nerf" to Mag DKs there is nothing in the game that could ever help you play well tbh,
Again no when did you say no to me the first time? And ppl are clearly against this look at ur damn poll1 -
WuffyCerulei✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭No
"Buzz Lightyear toy isle shot" Stormcalling/Animal Companions/Assassination PVP build hater
Bring Back Pure Class Build Power5
This discussion has been closed.