Crowns Crates and Apex Mounts...

Vidahr · February 2017

I'm not here to complain about pricing or the existence of crown crates, that's another thread for another day (and there's already like a million of them).

If we're going to have crown crates I would feel more confident buying them if the choice of the Apex mount wasn't random.

Here's what I mean: You wan't the Storm Atronach Wolf, but you end up with the Camel. Why not make the Apex item selectable? Like, you get the Apex card and HUZZAH, you can select the Apex mount/item you want.

I know it wouldn't facilitate more Crown Crate sales, but it would make a lot of people happier.

Oreyn_Bearclaw · February 2017

Vidahr wrote: »

I'm not here to complain about pricing or the existence of crown crates, that's another thread for another day (and there's already like a million of them).

If we're going to have crown crates I would feel more confident buying them if the choice of the Apex mount wasn't random.

Here's what I mean: You wan't the Storm Atronach Wolf, but you end up with the Camel. Why not make the Apex item selectable? Like, you get the Apex card and HUZZAH, you can select the Apex mount/item you want.

I know it wouldn't facilitate more Crown Crate sales, but it would make a lot of people happier.

I think you answered your own question.

Vidahr · February 2017

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

I think you answered your own question.

Heh, yeah. I get it, but maybe it will because people might have more confidence to buy more.

However, I don't think that stops the "IM GOING TO BUY AS MANY AS IT HUMANLY TAKES TO GET X MOUNT" people.

catalyst10e · February 2017

the simple rule, if you get the one you want, you stop buying them. If you get one you like but don't want, there's the larger chance you'll continue to buy in order to get it, or get enough crown gems to buy it outright. I'm not saying it's right or wrong, that's just the business model it runs.

idk · February 2017

With random crates the items are random.

I don't get into the crates because if I get something I don't want I'm stuck with it.

Vidahr · February 2017

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

With random crates the items are random.

I don't get into the crates because if I get something I don't want I'm stuck with it.

Yes, but I feel like the Apex cards should give you an option of the varying Apex mounts.

MissBizz · February 2017

Vidahr wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

I think you answered your own question.

Heh, yeah. I get it, but maybe it will because people might have more confidence to buy more.

However, I don't think that stops the "IM GOING TO BUY AS MANY AS IT HUMANLY TAKES TO GET X MOUNT" people.

But it does though. Those folks will continue until they get X mount. With the system you explained, they only have to get an apex mount (any) to get what they want. Definitely more money to be made off making those folks get 2 other apex mounts they don't want, and continue again until they get the one they do want.

I get you though, it would be a better system, I just think this system was never actually for the players to get what they want easier.

dodgehopper_ESO · February 2017

My solution is not to get crown crates. I'm simply not fond of the notion of gambling for what I want, and if the median chance of getting the mount I want is in the realm of $200 I'm definitely not interested. I can barely accept the pixel cost of $20 for a mount. Thematically I like the notion of a storm-atronach styled mount for a Sorcerer character, but beyond that I just don't see it as being even remotely worth the cost.

Vidahr · February 2017

MissBizz wrote: »

I get you though, it would be a better system, I just think this system was never actually for the players to get what they want easier.

Yeah, I understand. I know it will never happen, but if you don't say anything then nobody can hear you.

Thought It might at least toss it into the wind. I get the business model they're using, it's been copy/pasted all over F2P MMOs, so it's not a new thing.

Edit: I was mainly stating that I don't know if Consumer A will buy MORE Crown Crates knowing there's a chance to get the exact Apex mount they want to overwhelm Consumer B who buy and buys until he does get that one s/he wants. It would assume more consumers would enter the market and buy Crown Crates to trump Consumer B's lack of spending since s/he would just eventually end up with the one.

phairdon · February 2017

Exactly the reason why I will not end up with the wild hunt horse for example. Not going to throw away money on crown crate rng, hoping by some slim chance, I manage to get the desired mount.

dodgehopper_ESO · February 2017

Vidahr wrote: »

MissBizz wrote: »

I get you though, it would be a better system, I just think this system was never actually for the players to get what they want easier.

Yeah, I understand. I know it will never happen, but if you don't say anything then nobody can hear you.

Thought It might at least toss it into the wind. I get the business model they're using, it's been copy/pasted all over F2P MMOs, so it's not a new thing.

Edit: I was mainly stating that I don't know if Consumer A will buy MORE Crown Crates knowing there's a chance to get the exact Apex mount they want to overwhelm Consumer B who buy and buys until he does get that one s/he wants. It would assume more consumers would enter the market and buy Crown Crates to trump Consumer B's lack of spending since s/he would just eventually end up with the one.

This is not an attack against you, but I've always hated the term 'Consumer' whether in high school economics or in University business school. It conveys a sense of a Pacman, who can do nothing but munch voraciously and without purpose. I've always preferred the term 'Customer' because it doesn't deny the humanity of the buyer. Producer/Consumer also sound far too communist for my liking, and perhaps the other reason those terms bother me.

Vidahr · February 2017

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

This is not an attack against you, but I've always hated the term 'Consumer' whether in high school economics or in University business school. It conveys a sense of a Pacman, who can do nothing but munch voraciously and without purpose. I've always preferred the term 'Customer' because it doesn't deny the humanity of the buyer. Producer/Consumer also sound far too communist for my liking, and perhaps the other reason those terms bother me.

Hmm, it is a weird term. Having an MBA myself I have used it over, and over, and over. I had a professor named Dr. Cain and he would never use the word customer or patron. It was weird, it almost seemed like it sickened him to call them anything other than consumers.

He is a weird guy.

Turelus · February 2017

I wish we could have this as well, I would actually support them more then.

Having a random choice for apex is lame though.

Enteum · February 2017

I just wish they would make the Storm Atronach Horse a direct purchase with crowns. Dammit!

Oreyn_Bearclaw · February 2017

I bit the bullet and bought some crates. I never got a mount, but eventually got the bear attro with gems. That is probably as close to a safeguard as you will get. My apex RNG was obviously crap, but I got a lot of duplicate drops so I actually wracked up 400 gems pretty fast.

That being said, I am not sure I will do it again. It's just too random IMO. I use the wizard hat and the attro mount, that is it.

Acrolas · February 2017

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

Producer/Consumer also sound far too communist for my liking, and perhaps the other reason those terms bother me.

Adam Smith, he of "consumption is the sole end and purpose of all production" fame, used the terms 'producer' and 'consumer' in an economic sense by the 1770's. Seven decades before the formal invention of communism. More than a century before the terms autotroph and heterotroph were coined.

But back to the original discussion, ZOS would have to invent a single-token system, because some people would be so indecisive they'd time out before choosing their reward. But they won't. Because a duplicate Apex is only worth 130 or so gems anyway.

ADarklore · February 2017

catalyst10e wrote: »

the simple rule, if you get the one you want, you stop buying them. If you get one you like but don't want, there's the larger chance you'll continue to buy in order to get it, or get enough crown gems to buy it outright. I'm not saying it's right or wrong, that's just the business model it runs.

^THIS was exactly how I looked at it. I was going to keep buying until either I received the Atronach Senche or enough gems to buy it outright. As luck would have it, the third crate in my second 15 pack, I received the Senche.

dodgehopper_ESO · February 2017

Acrolas wrote: »

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

Producer/Consumer also sound far too communist for my liking, and perhaps the other reason those terms bother me.

Adam Smith, he of "consumption is the sole end and purpose of all production" fame, used the terms 'producer' and 'consumer' in an economic sense by the 1770's. Seven decades before the formal invention of communism. More than a century before the terms autotroph and heterotroph were coined.

But back to the original discussion, ZOS would have to invent a single-token system, because some people would be so indecisive they'd time out before choosing their reward. But they won't. Because a duplicate Apex is only worth 130 or so gems anyway.

I'm not denying that, but I feel the communists really ran with the ball and took it down a road which is ultimately dehumanizing. My own feeling on the matter is that this dehumanizing element really took root in the communist philosophies brought on by economic theorists like Marx and Engels. The notion at its core I feel is simply IF we are consumers/producers THAN Communism is the way to go. My statement is simply that by using the cold language of science to describe people doing business transactions has allowed for some twisted thinking over the last couple of centuries.

Don't get me wrong I'm very pro-business and freedom. ZoS should be able to do whatever the hell they want with their business as long as they're performing their quid pro quo with their customers. I may not like some of the paths they go down as a customer, but can I say I agree with everything that any business does, even the ones I like? My point is simply that the term 'consumer' is perhaps too antiseptic and really misses the point. I think it is the reason students have to take an ethics course in business school to try to retrain you that people have value. I'm not trying to police anyone's speech here, I just think there are better terms that could be used. Business is not science in the same way that chemistry or physics are. Business is in many ways an interdisciplinary study of psychology, mathematics, sociology and law.

Lynx7386 · February 2017

This is how microtran$actions work.

Step one: call your game "free to play" but create so many restrictions and/or incentives to subscribe that people feel forced to anyways.

Step two: create a cash shop and offer things like super cool mounts for 25-50$ each, while only having the most basic and boring mounts obtainable without paying.

Step three: when sales slow down, create a *** poor gambling system where people pay even more gold just to have a slight chance at getting something even cooler than what they could purchase with confidence before.

Step four: charge twice the amount for your next dlc, even for subscribers who normally get dlc at no extra cost, and explain it away as an "expansion".

The way this crap works now sickens me.

acw37162 · February 2017

You can pick your mount.

Spend enough money easily over $100 yo store enough crown gems to purchase the one you want.

Also, I wouldn't stock pile crown gems for the next series of boxes coming soon™ I have a sneaky feeling they will change the currency.

I've been very wrong before but since every aspect of the crown crates is designed to bleed your pocketbook as much as possible.

It will do absolutely no good but I wrote both my state and federal congressman and senator asking them to adopt the legislation for these activities in video game the same as they would and have for institutions of gambeling.