Earthewen wrote: »

Yep, it's true. Check out the DEV TRACKER! omg! I don't care if it is only a week. I'm staying out until they get their act together.

lmao, the point is ZOS is asking for our help to solve the problem. They want this solved but CAN'T duplicate the issues we have on the live servers so they need our help.

You guys ask for a fix and ZOS is trying to give it to us by finding the problem and some players (including you) aren't going to help? lol. It's called the process of elimination, they need to diagnose what the problem is to fix it so therefore they need to try things.

pieratsos wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

MissBizz wrote: »

Earthewen wrote: »

Yep, it's true. Check out the DEV TRACKER! omg! I don't care if it is only a week. I'm staying out until they get their act together.

You know the point of it is to help better figure out what they can do to improve performance... Right?

You know that the only result with a meaningful outcome would be the campaigns still lagging like sh**?

By removing CP they inevitably change how people play the game.
They already can´t tell if azura lags less because people play differently or because there are no CP.
If it lags less they still won´t be able to tell what makes the difference.

It´s stupid.

Even if thats the case they will still get information to help them improve performance. So instead of whining in every single thread about your personal preferences regarding CP and no CP how about you help with the test like the rest of people will do. Its 1 week. Dont worry, you'll live.

I´d much rather have them notice the flaws in their approach and setup a test they can actually draw meaningful results from.

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

Actually the CP system is why the game is so broken it should be gone

What they should do is:

1. Remove CP from all campaigns
2. Reduce damage, healing, and shield value penalties from 50% to 15%
3. Increase max health given from battle spirit by 1000

Call it a day. I know they won't bring back softcaps, but this will be as close as it gets. The infinite resource, sustain, tankiness, high damage meta needs to go.

You should be able to do one maybe two roles well(healing, tanking, and DPS) but not all three like it currently is.

The CP system is failure and I think ZOS may finally be seeing that with the absurd power creep. If they adjusted the Cyrodiil values as I stated above with removing CP we would be soooooooooo close to 1.5 pvp with much better balance, but CP simply allows you to shore up weaknesses in your spec. It really should be this way. Tanks, healers, and DPS need to have profound weaknesses and they will never have them as long as cp is as it is.

Agree ^^^ If they want to keep the CP system then they need to revamp to do more utility and more horizontal progression, personally I would like to see them do away with it completely, if it is impacting performance it need to go.

ZOS also needs to have better cheat detection the Cheat Engine is still alive and well but with no CP, it should be harder for some one to cheat as there will be no permanent resource pool, maybe we can see how much is CP and how much is something else, looking forward to this testing coming up I have not been doing much pvp the last two cycles.

Every time someone says remove CP and call it a day i cringe. Either you weren't around for pre 1.6 or you have been around since then and have become so accustomed to CP you think it can just be removed.

This game has been changed in almost every aspect to work with CP and the CP passives. Almost every skills has been changed since the introduction of CP and the removal of the old ult system and soft caps. Simply removing CP will not work for PVP or PVE. I understand people do not like how some builds can heal so much or perma block or this and that.

The issue is the values and passives within the CP system need to be adjusted. Things like roll dodge and break free shouldn't fall under the same item and should be spread out. By creating more areas where CP must go it makes players have to spread out the CP more and lowers some values while strengthening others.

Because battle spirit is unique to PVP they can make it so CP passives like unchained for example just do not work in pvp. If you remove CP from the game/pvp then the devs have to go in and adjust all of the racial passives, every skill and class passive. Which would in turn mean a total overhaul of ESO. Lets face it, it took 1.5 years for them to just make a change to Coag which was needed but things like the stacking streak cost that weren't really needed were something added in that time.

This isn't some L2P thing or however the trolls want to call it, it comes down to wanting ESO to be as balanced as possible and making sure its done in a sensible way. I am all for discussion on this as ive had it plenty of times with people who are for and against CP.

I am for CP at this point in the ESO lifespan, but with changes to how the trees and passives in it are placed and adjusted.

The easy fix to the problem: make CP only give an increase to max stats in pvp, this way people will still want to have them as high as possible but the passives and the lag won't be an issue anymore.
@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JohanaB

Princess_Asgari wrote: »

Every time someone says remove CP and call it a day i cringe. Either you weren't around for pre 1.6 or you have been around since then and have become so accustomed to CP you think it can just be removed.

This game has been changed in almost every aspect to work with CP and the CP passives. Almost every skills has been changed since the introduction of CP and the removal of the old ult system and soft caps. Simply removing CP will not work for PVP or PVE. I understand people do not like how some builds can heal so much or perma block or this and that.

The issue is the values and passives within the CP system need to be adjusted. Things like roll dodge and break free shouldn't fall under the same item and should be spread out. By creating more areas where CP must go it makes players have to spread out the CP more and lowers some values while strengthening others.

Because battle spirit is unique to PVP they can make it so CP passives like unchained for example just do not work in pvp. If you remove CP from the game/pvp then the devs have to go in and adjust all of the racial passives, every skill and class passive. Which would in turn mean a total overhaul of ESO. Lets face it, it took 1.5 years for them to just make a change to Coag which was needed but things like the stacking streak cost that weren't really needed were something added in that time.

This isn't some L2P thing or however the trolls want to call it, it comes down to wanting ESO to be as balanced as possible and making sure its done in a sensible way. I am all for discussion on this as ive had it plenty of times with people who are for and against CP.

I am for CP at this point in the ESO lifespan, but with changes to how the trees and passives in it are placed and adjusted.

Princess_Asgari wrote: »

Every time someone says remove CP and call it a day i cringe. Either you weren't around for pre 1.6 or you have been around since then and have become so accustomed to CP you think it can just be removed.

This game has been changed in almost every aspect to work with CP and the CP passives. Almost every skills has been changed since the introduction of CP and the removal of the old ult system and soft caps. Simply removing CP will not work for PVP or PVE. I understand people do not like how some builds can heal so much or perma block or this and that.

The issue is the values and passives within the CP system need to be adjusted. Things like roll dodge and break free shouldn't fall under the same item and should be spread out. By creating more areas where CP must go it makes players have to spread out the CP more and lowers some values while strengthening others.

Because battle spirit is unique to PVP they can make it so CP passives like unchained for example just do not work in pvp. If you remove CP from the game/pvp then the devs have to go in and adjust all of the racial passives, every skill and class passive. Which would in turn mean a total overhaul of ESO. Lets face it, it took 1.5 years for them to just make a change to Coag which was needed but things like the stacking streak cost that weren't really needed were something added in that time.

This isn't some L2P thing or however the trolls want to call it, it comes down to wanting ESO to be as balanced as possible and making sure its done in a sensible way. I am all for discussion on this as ive had it plenty of times with people who are for and against CP.

I am for CP at this point in the ESO lifespan, but with changes to how the trees and passives in it are placed and adjusted.

I can see that. But at what max cap does the current system represent the game in terms of balance? With every increase comes some sort of power creep and a redesign of the stars themselves would require the input of the PvE community, many of whom feel pvpers have already destroyed their playstyle for the sake of balance for a part of the game they don't enjoy.

That's why it makes sense to turn off CP in pvp only. It's easier to scale mob difficulty than to keep going back to skills every few patches to make sure they are balanced in pvp, which might mess up PvE builds (ie Templar shards/rd change.)

The other argument is they can piggy-back any missing stats via the trip stats gained from adding CP but not the passives or add extra buffs/debuffs to the battle spirit. Definitely much better than spliting CP passives in hope they balance cyro, but potentially gutting PvE builds.

SnubbS wrote: »

This is just going to lead to no cp in all pvp campaigns.

Lag existed before CP... actually started with the lighting patch right after release

If they do remove cp they really need to remove poisons too

Remove CP. Remove poisons. Remove proc sets. You will thank me later.

Rickter wrote: »

guys this isnt a "should there be CP or not" issue. this is a "lets relieve known server load and see if that will improve performance on campaigns like Trueflame"

so why is there a big discussion on whether CP should exist in PVP or not? thats not what this is about. Devs see AS having good performance and they think its because there is no CP loading the servers down. but they arent sure - so they want to test it on Trueflame, but they cant just make TF no cp for a week because players will just go to Had, so they are making ALL camps no cp so that players will stay on their respective servers (they only really care about TF) so they can acquire the necessary data and adjust from there.

All this doomsaying and arguing over a simple data collection test is silly. Participate. Help the devs collect the information they need to make pvp more fun for us all.

Say it does work. it's setting a strange and borderline dangerous precedent. "to fix LAG we just need to remove features" shouldn't be taken so lightly, especially with something like CP which the entire game has it's balance wrapped around, one way or another. I understand the "Why" in "why are they doing this?" but I'm concerned with the results of their findings and their implications further down the line. They removed the deer roaming Cyrodiil WAY back when, due to similar issues. If CP is next and we still have lag what comes next? ALL NPCs? No more sieging, you just attack doors and walls with youre regular attack skills?

@catalyst10e
But in Wheeler's original post, he never talked about removing CP permanently in PVP. The issue as he states is the additional calculations that certain unlocked passives cause, and if they can verify that the TF lag is exacerbated by these CP passives then they know where to focus their efforts on performance improvements. Perhaps they modify how those CP passives function or change them entirely, but the intention does not seem to be removing CP permanently from PVP.
.

Kartalin wrote: »

@catalyst10e
But in Wheeler's original post, he never talked about removing CP permanently in PVP. The issue as he states is the additional calculations that certain unlocked passives cause, and if they can verify that the TF lag is exacerbated by these CP passives then they know where to focus their efforts on performance improvements. Perhaps they modify how those CP passives function or change them entirely, but the intention does not seem to be removing CP permanently from PVP.
.

If the data collected was specifically for certain passives causing the lag, turning off CP doesn't get you any information on those specific passives. All it tells you is, the problem is indeed CP passives, and that not having them = little/no lag. That is my concern. The idea that simply removing things fixes problems. Also; He didnt say it was specific passives he just said "Now that we’ve had a significant population density in Azura’s Star, we strongly suspect what has been theorized for a long time: Champion Rank passives and abilities are causing too much server load, especially in situations like Keep battles where there are tons of players in one place." And then ended it with "The results of this test will determine the next course of action for refining Cyrodiil server performance. Thank you for your perseverance and patience – we thoroughly appreciate your time, efforts, and feedback!"

So, all that circles back to my original concern. The band-aid fix of a major overhaul / blanket removal.

Hyodyntaa wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Princess_Asgari wrote: »

Every time someone says remove CP and call it a day i cringe. Either you weren't around for pre 1.6 or you have been around since then and have become so accustomed to CP you think it can just be removed.

This game has been changed in almost every aspect to work with CP and the CP passives. Almost every skills has been changed since the introduction of CP and the removal of the old ult system and soft caps. Simply removing CP will not work for PVP or PVE. I understand people do not like how some builds can heal so much or perma block or this and that.

The issue is the values and passives within the CP system need to be adjusted. Things like roll dodge and break free shouldn't fall under the same item and should be spread out. By creating more areas where CP must go it makes players have to spread out the CP more and lowers some values while strengthening others.

Because battle spirit is unique to PVP they can make it so CP passives like unchained for example just do not work in pvp. If you remove CP from the game/pvp then the devs have to go in and adjust all of the racial passives, every skill and class passive. Which would in turn mean a total overhaul of ESO. Lets face it, it took 1.5 years for them to just make a change to Coag which was needed but things like the stacking streak cost that weren't really needed were something added in that time.

This isn't some L2P thing or however the trolls want to call it, it comes down to wanting ESO to be as balanced as possible and making sure its done in a sensible way. I am all for discussion on this as ive had it plenty of times with people who are for and against CP.

I am for CP at this point in the ESO lifespan, but with changes to how the trees and passives in it are placed and adjusted.

I can see that. But at what max cap does the current system represent the game in terms of balance? With every increase comes some sort of power creep and a redesign of the stars themselves would require the input of the PvE community, many of whom feel pvpers have already destroyed their playstyle for the sake of balance for a part of the game they don't enjoy.

That's why it makes sense to turn off CP in pvp only. It's easier to scale mob difficulty than to keep going back to skills every few patches to make sure they are balanced in pvp, which might mess up PvE builds (ie Templar shards/rd change.)

The other argument is they can piggy-back any missing stats via the trip stats gained from adding CP but not the passives or add extra buffs/debuffs to the battle spirit. Definitely much better than spliting CP passives in hope they balance cyro, but potentially gutting PvE builds.

And for the people who enjoy playing with CP rather than no CP against players using increase cost poisons and proc sets where they're even stronger than with CP?

The classes with inbuilt sustain will obviously have a huge advantage over the classes without inbuilt sustain, but even they won't be a match for the current PvP meta.

Well then then question is "what part of the CP makes pvp great?".

If we are pissed about tank builds that can heal/do damage or DPS that can do obscene dmg that it renders light armor pointless; id say the way CP is now inflates the playstyle of PvP. If we are so used to that aspect of the CP system that we cannot notice how bad CP is, I think that's a failure of the game design and should be changed drastically to avoid future derailing discussions of balance.

If CP offers great build diversity, then I'd agree that we should protect the CP system. But currently, you are underperforming of you don't max mighty/elemental expert/thamaturge. And you are dying quicky if you don't have 16% dmg reduction or have less than 40 points in critical resistance (with full impen).

I don't want any pve to dictate our game and us to dictate PvE. Separating CP from pvp ensures that we can balance the game without impacting PvE. Azura Star proves no CP is possible, it just needs the full population to really test if this is the direction the pvp should go. The players just need a nudge to give it a try without giving up.