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Stripping CPs from ALL Campaigns?!!!!!
Earthewen
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This just hit the rumor mill. I need some confirmation if this is true. The idea that CPs are causing all the lag in Hade and TF doesn't sound very logical to me. Could someone explain this that knows something about it? It seems to me much more logical that signals from all the gamers going into a system that can't handle the traffic to be much, much more likely. Then let's say the over abundance of players in a given area is multiplied by magnitude of animation canceling (would that then send 2 or more signals into a system already taxed?), then add to that the inevitable macro'er that sends more than 5 signals to the server in less than a tenth of a second ... This sounds much more logical to me as being the reason for the insane lag on TF. Hade has fewer players so less lag until the zergs arrive.
That being said, if ZOS has this as a test in coming weeks, I think someone might have spiked their water bottles with stupid pills.
That being said, if ZOS has this as a test in coming weeks, I think someone might have spiked their water bottles with stupid pills.
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timidobserver✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Click on dev tracker.V16 Uriel Stormblessed EP Magicka Templar(main)
V16 Derelict Vagabond EP Stamina DK
V16 Redacted Ep Stam Sorc
V16 Insolent EP Magicka Sorc(retired)
V16 Jed I Nyte EP Stamina NB(retired)6 -
RinaldoGandolphi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Actually the CP system is why the game is so broken it should be gone
What they should do is:
1. Remove CP from all campaigns
2. Reduce damage, healing, and shield value penalties from 50% to 15%
3. Increase max health given from battle spirit by 1000
Call it a day. I know they won't bring back softcaps, but this will be as close as it gets. The infinite resource, sustain, tankiness, high damage meta needs to go.
You should be able to do one maybe two roles well(healing, tanking, and DPS) but not all three like it currently is.
The CP system is failure and I think ZOS may finally be seeing that with the absurd power creep. If they adjusted the Cyrodiil values as I stated above with removing CP we would be soooooooooo close to 1.5 pvp with much better balance, but CP simply allows you to shore up weaknesses in your spec. It really should be this way. Tanks, healers, and DPS need to have profound weaknesses and they will never have them as long as cp is as it is.Rinaldo Gandolphi-Breton Sorcerer Daggerfall Covenant
Juste Gandolphi Dark Elf Templar Daggerfall Covenant
Richter Gandolphi - Dark Elf Dragonknight Daggerfall Covenant
Mathias Gandolphi - Breton Nightblade Daggerfall Covenant
RinaldoGandolphi - High Elf Sorcerer Aldmeri Dominion
Officer Fire and Ice
Co-GM - MVP
Sorcerer's - The ONLY class in the game that is punished for using its class defining skill (Bolt Escape)
"Here in his shrine, that they have forgotten. Here do we toil, that we might remember. By night we reclaim, what by day was stolen. Far from ourselves, he grows ever near to us. Our eyes once were blinded, now through him do we see. Our hands once were idle, now through them does he speak. And when the world shall listen, and when the world shall see, and when the world remembers, that world will cease to be. - Miraak29 -
Earthewen✭✭✭✭✭Well, I think the week of the test, me and my team might be just pve-ing for that week. I have no interest until they get this straightened out.3
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tplink3r1✭✭✭✭✭
✭I just hope they fix it instead of removing CP.
No point playing an MMORPG without grind/progression.Edited by tplink3r1 on February 20, 2017 9:49PMVR16 Templar
VR3 Sorcerer4 -
Earthewen✭✭✭✭✭Yep, it's true. Check out the DEV TRACKER! omg! I don't care if it is only a week. I'm staying out until they get their act together.
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MissBizz✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Yep, it's true. Check out the DEV TRACKER! omg! I don't care if it is only a week. I'm staying out until they get their act together.
You know the point of it is to help better figure out what they can do to improve performance... Right?Lone Wolf HelpFor the solo players who know, sometimes you just need a hand.PC | NA | AD-DC-EP | Discord36 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
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You know that the only result with a meaningful outcome would be the campaigns still lagging like [SNIp]?
By removing CP they inevitably change how people play the game.
They already can´t tell if azura lags less because people play differently or because there are no CP.
If it lags less they still won´t be able to tell what makes the difference.
It´s stupid.
[Edited for Profanity]Edited by ZOS_JohanaB on February 21, 2017 12:19PM<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 502 -
casparian✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I get that it's easier to trust what "seems logical" to you over what is evident to the people who are looking at the data and understand the system those data arise from. But as easy as it is, that's a really awful epistemic habit to get into.7-day PVP campaign regular 2016-2019, Flawless Conqueror. MagDK/stamplar/stamwarden/mageblade. Requiem, Legend, Knights of Daggerfall. Currently retired from the wars; waiting on performance improvements.6 -
DannyLV702✭✭✭✭✭
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You know that the only result with a meaningful outcome would be the campaigns still lagging like [SNIp]?
By removing CP they inevitably change how people play the game.
They already can´t tell if azura lags less because people play differently or because there are no CP.
If it lags less they still won´t be able to tell what makes the difference.
It´s stupid.
[Edited for profanity]
I want to see what happens. This is the first time they are actually somewhat attempting to address the issue rather than lying to us about how they're working on it. Performance and balance is already crap, so what do we really have to lose? Worst case scenario, PvP remains crap and we got double ap. Best case scenario, they may just fix something.Edited by ZOS_JohanaB on February 21, 2017 12:19PM9 -
Earthewen✭✭✭✭✭How populated is Azura's? We don't play here BECAUSE of the lack of CPs. When they started the CP systems, we built with those in mind. Why would we do anything that took them away? We'd have to rebuild for it. BLAH, more farming. NO thanks. I'm too busy farming for my house now anyway. LOL
I understand the point is to figure it out, but there has been a lag issue WAY before CPs were even here. Do people not remember the pre-CP lag fests where no skills got through? Or the constant crashes from Beta on? I love this game and almost always make a point of sincerely thanking ZOS for the stuff they do that's right. However, I still think the multiple signals going through with these massive zergs, the macro programs throwing the commands to the server faster than was intended, and the animation cancelling sending multiple commands probably has more to do with the lag than any other thing. Let's face it. Their server can't handle it. They have awesome ideas, but perhaps their dreams were just before their time and the ability of the technology infrastructure. Maybe I'm way off base, but I'd still like to understand how on earth CP points could be causing lag.1 -
rfennell_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »Actually the CP system is why the game is so broken it should be gone
What they should do is:
1. Remove CP from all campaigns
2. Reduce damage, healing, and shield value penalties from 50% to 15%
3. Increase max health given from battle spirit by 1000
Call it a day. I know they won't bring back softcaps, but this will be as close as it gets. The infinite resource, sustain, tankiness, high damage meta needs to go.
You should be able to do one maybe two roles well(healing, tanking, and DPS) but not all three like it currently is.
The CP system is failure and I think ZOS may finally be seeing that with the absurd power creep. If they adjusted the Cyrodiil values as I stated above with removing CP we would be soooooooooo close to 1.5 pvp with much better balance, but CP simply allows you to shore up weaknesses in your spec. It really should be this way. Tanks, healers, and DPS need to have profound weaknesses and they will never have them as long as cp is as it is.
Hehe if they end up stripping all CP from pvp... they might as well just gut the entire system.
I would much rather them get rid of battle spirit altogether. Make what adjustments to accommodate the change that need to be made.
Of course the problem will be: The cheats have the healing, the tankiness and the burst dps on Azura already.2 -
zuto40✭✭✭✭✭i like the cp system, but if it helps remove lag im all for getting rid of itStamblade- Legate
Tank/Heals Templar- Sergeant
Magic DK- Corporal
Stam DK- Sergeant
Stamplar- Corporal
YouTube https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCy8uqORxhlrMh8oz2230s9g4 -
NBrookus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭How populated is Azura's? We don't play here BECAUSE of the lack of CPs. When they started the CP systems, we built with those in mind. Why would we do anything that took them away? We'd have to rebuild for it. BLAH, more farming. NO thanks. I'm too busy farming for my house now anyway. LOL
On PC NA, Azuras technically has about the same population as Haderus but it's much zergier -- i.e. larger groups, larger battles. I experience more lag in Azuras than Haderus, and it happens when those zergs collide. But that's anecdotal, which is exactly why they are running a large test.
Just switch out some enchants for regen and you'll likely be fine. Everyone will be in the same boat.0 -
Rohamad_Ali✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Its a "test" but we can pretty much guess the results . If they do remove cp after from all campaigns , I wonder how many people would quit PVP .0 -
Earthewen✭✭✭✭✭do you think this has anything to do with the 4v4 arenas coming out in a few months? is there some dynamic that they're worried about that people won't be in the 4v4s because of the mega monsters out there?1
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Rohamad_Ali✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭do you think this has anything to do with the 4v4 arenas coming out in a few months? is there some dynamic that they're worried about that people won't be in the 4v4s because of the mega monsters out there?
No I don't think those will be big enough to create lag but I might guess if they removed cp from Cyrodiil , they may make battlefields the new cp PVP .0 -
Earthewen✭✭✭✭✭Well, I hope they have fun with that. I'll never step foot in the arenas. I think it would be a shame to again screw up PVP for something that like that. It's just like screwing up PVE proc sets because of the whiners in PVP.1
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Ackwalan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭It is a test. Hopefully ZOS will be able to see the 'whats' and the 'hows' and be able to reduce lag and keep the CP's.1 -
Hammy01✭✭✭✭✭I love the fact that ZOS is actively trying to fix a major problem and i applaud them for it!!
Plus i am not sure why people would complain about not having any CP... Everyone would be on an even playing field. People would just need to play smarter and build for more sustain.
However i think they really should remove poisons as well otherwise everyone will just be light / heavy attacking everything.6 -
Koolio✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I love the fact that ZOS is actively trying to fix a major problem and i applaud them for it!!
Plus i am not sure why people would complain about not having any CP...Everyone would be on an even playing field. People would just need to play smarter and build for more sustain.
However i think they really should remove poisons as well otherwise everyone will just be light / heavy attacking everything.
Because I only gained CP for PVP. So the time wasted would be astronomical.
Edited by Koolio on February 20, 2017 11:35PM0 -
kadar✭✭✭✭✭
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Cyrodiil lag has very little to do with animation cancelling or macros. In fact the opposite is probably more true. Full blown, intense animations *coughDestroUltcough* stacked on top of each other have a far larger effect than any sort of weaving does. Either way, the whole point of this test is because ZOS suspects that all the extra calculations the server has to process from CP is responsible for lag.This just hit the rumor mill. I need some confirmation if this is true. The idea that CPs are causing all the lag in Hade and TF doesn't sound very logical to me. Could someone explain this that knows something about it? It seems to me much more logical that signals from all the gamers going into a system that can't handle the traffic to be much, much more likely. Then let's say the over abundance of players in a given area is multiplied by magnitude of animation canceling (would that then send 2 or more signals into a system already taxed?), then add to that the inevitable macro'er that sends more than 5 signals to the server in less than a tenth of a second ... This sounds much more logical to me as being the reason for the insane lag on TF. Hade has fewer players so less lag until the zergs arrive.
That being said, if ZOS has this as a test in coming weeks, I think someone might have spiked their water bottles with stupid pills.
The test will have value. People will play the exact same as they do now (and run out of resources on occasion), or alter their builds to compensate (it doesn't take much, just a glyph/mundus/set swap). Hell I just run the same thing in AZ and mix in a heavy attack once in awhile. My build is slightly weaker, but it's completely functional and performs successfully.0 -
Minno✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭How populated is Azura's? We don't play here BECAUSE of the lack of CPs. When they started the CP systems, we built with those in mind. Why would we do anything that took them away? We'd have to rebuild for it. BLAH, more farming. NO thanks. I'm too busy farming for my house now anyway. LOL
On PC NA, Azuras technically has about the same population as Haderus but it's much zergier -- i.e. larger groups, larger battles. I experience more lag in Azuras than Haderus, and it happens when those zergs collide. But that's anecdotal, which is exactly why they are running a large test.
Just switch out some enchants for regen and you'll likely be fine. Everyone will be in the same boat.
And probably use heavy attack once in a while.Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
- Guild-lead for MV
- Filthy Casual1 -
Minno✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭How populated is Azura's? We don't play here BECAUSE of the lack of CPs. When they started the CP systems, we built with those in mind. Why would we do anything that took them away? We'd have to rebuild for it. BLAH, more farming. NO thanks. I'm too busy farming for my house now anyway. LOL
I understand the point is to figure it out, but there has been a lag issue WAY before CPs were even here. Do people not remember the pre-CP lag fests where no skills got through? Or the constant crashes from Beta on? I love this game and almost always make a point of sincerely thanking ZOS for the stuff they do that's right. However, I still think the multiple signals going through with these massive zergs, the macro programs throwing the commands to the server faster than was intended, and the animation cancelling sending multiple commands probably has more to do with the lag than any other thing. Let's face it. Their server can't handle it. They have awesome ideas, but perhaps their dreams were just before their time and the ability of the technology infrastructure. Maybe I'm way off base, but I'd still like to understand how on earth CP points could be causing lag.
Wheeler said it himself that the main culprit was how the equations for many of the skills were causing an overload on the server. He had a much in depth overview off why this was true (before or around the IC update). But those equations were related to skills making checks on your character and the characters around you (I.E. steel tornado checking for if a player was low health and sending that info to the server.)
Some of us had a large tin foil hat and suggested that CP was another culprit. CP does add another layer of complexity to those same equations that is different for each player. The hypothesis is that removing CP goes a long way towards cyro/pvp performance. And I hope this test sheds light on this because my tin foil hat is 6 fashion seasons out of style lol.Edited by Minno on February 21, 2017 12:26AMMinno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
- Guild-lead for MV
- Filthy Casual6 -
FriedEggSandwich✭✭✭✭✭
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You know that the only result with a meaningful outcome would be the campaigns still lagging like [SNIp]?
By removing CP they inevitably change how people play the game.
They already can´t tell if azura lags less because people play differently or because there are no CP.
If it lags less they still won´t be able to tell what makes the difference.
It´s stupid.
[Edited for Profanity]
As I understood it this is just the first in a series of tests, so maybe this is the control test. If they do find that cp is the cause of lag in pvp I doubt the fix would be to remove cp from all campaigns, I would hope that it would promt them to optimise their code that deals with cp calculations.Edited by ZOS_JohanaB on February 21, 2017 12:21PMPC | EU1 -
tplink3r1✭✭✭✭✭
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Because it's the only progression this game has.I love the fact that ZOS is actively trying to fix a major problem and i applaud them for it!!
Plus i am not sure why people would complain about not having any CP... Everyone would be on an even playing field. People would just need to play smarter and build for more sustain.
However i think they really should remove poisons as well otherwise everyone will just be light / heavy attacking everything.VR16 Templar
VR3 Sorcerer0 -
Minalan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I think it's a population issue.
This weekend TF was unplayable because they had 100+ people from each alliance fighting in DC home keep space, right around Glad and Rayles. There were no swords anywhere else on the map.
Azuras Star NEVER has that. Not on this scale. Triple pop locks, and everyone peeing on DC's front lawn. The PVP was *awesome*, but the lag was so bad it was unplayable at times. The load screens to respawn were painful, and people kept getting kicked.
Edited by Minalan on February 21, 2017 1:27AM1 -
Astanphaeus✭✭✭✭✭I get that it's easier to trust what "seems logical" to you over what is evident to the people who are looking at the data and understand the system those data arise from. But as easy as it is, that's a really awful epistemic habit to get into.
I would almost support this sentiment, except I've seen the devs before show the specific data they were using when they made a change and face-palmed because they had interpreted it so very poorly.1 -
RinaldoGandolphi✭✭✭✭✭
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You know that the only result with a meaningful outcome would be the campaigns still lagging like [SNIp]?
By removing CP they inevitably change how people play the game.
They already can´t tell if azura lags less because people play differently or because there are no CP.
If it lags less they still won´t be able to tell what makes the difference.
It´s stupid.
[Edited for Profanity]
I disagree not having to calculate damage taken and damage received will reduce server load and calculations by over 200% as it will only base damage on basic armor and spell resist be armor, spell resist, hardly, elemental defender, thick skin, and resistant.
I really hope this is the first step to canning the CP system all together from pvp. It simply makes the game unbalanced indefinitely.
They need to replace the CP system in pvp with a war front system with trees related to improving alliance war stuff not damage, sustain, etc
Leave the CP system for pve. They need to separate Cyrodiil from pve.
CP is not a problem in pve because they can simply adjust mobs health, damage, armor, etc to make them stronger or weaker, but that simply won't work in pvp.
tne CP system killed hybrid builds, killed build diversity, and pigeon holed everyone into min max builds of tanks, DPS, or heals with enough CP you can do all three. I'm really hoping they throw cp completely with Morrowind and give us back a reasonable Soft Cap system. Pvp has been broken since 1.6 people just got used to a broken game.
Edited by ZOS_JohanaB on February 21, 2017 12:21PMRinaldo Gandolphi-Breton Sorcerer Daggerfall Covenant
Juste Gandolphi Dark Elf Templar Daggerfall Covenant
Richter Gandolphi - Dark Elf Dragonknight Daggerfall Covenant
Mathias Gandolphi - Breton Nightblade Daggerfall Covenant
RinaldoGandolphi - High Elf Sorcerer Aldmeri Dominion
Officer Fire and Ice
Co-GM - MVP
Sorcerer's - The ONLY class in the game that is punished for using its class defining skill (Bolt Escape)
"Here in his shrine, that they have forgotten. Here do we toil, that we might remember. By night we reclaim, what by day was stolen. Far from ourselves, he grows ever near to us. Our eyes once were blinded, now through him do we see. Our hands once were idle, now through them does he speak. And when the world shall listen, and when the world shall see, and when the world remembers, that world will cease to be. - Miraak3
