How crime works. Dead men tell no tales.

Ryoendymon · February 2017

Ok, so as a returning player, I have screwed myself due to the lack of logic in the crime system.

I was in a building, doing a bit of stealing, trying to find the blueprints to furnish my home (the purchase took nearly all my cash) I get caught, I expect a bounty to pay next time a guard sees me. The citizen attacks me. I think, "oh ***, well I am here in a small room, only a couple npcs here, if I kill them all, no witness, no bounty." so i kill the npcs, I have a bounty......

Logically, with no witnesses, how do you have a bounty. There should be a system in place where a victim must make it to a guard. But, it only gets more annoying from here.

I think, ok, I have a bunch of stuff to fence, I can go, pay the fence, clear my bounty, right? NOPE!

Guard in another zone sees me, kills me, takes all my stolen goods (which he magically knows are stolen despite no witnesses, and them all being from another zone) takes all my gold toward my bounty. (Which doesn't clear it, but leaves me penniless, with damaged armor) and when I rez, I still owe a few hundred.

It says the guards will no longer attack me on sight, ok yay, I still have a few items that were legit, I should be able to sell, that might clear my bounty. I go toward the outlaw den, guard stops me, I cannot pay the bounty, and I do not have the clemency option, so it times out to a flee, which increases my bounty higher, and he kills me pushing my repair bill higher -.-;;

So I cannot get to a vendor to repair my gear, or vendor anything, if I try, my bounty just goes up, and all of this stemming from a petty theft, where all the witnesses were killed, without leaving the building, in a completely different zone.

I am working on clearing this up myself in game, but the point is, once all witnesses are slain, you shouldn't have a bounty, or be wanted,

zaria · February 2017

Yes you get bounty if you kill the only person in room and get seen, part is probably to simplify coding, not keeping track of all npc.
The guards don't attack is that they don't attack, they will still confront you.
One solution is to head out in the wilderness and farm or grind.
If you play an alt or log off bounty will also go down.

Things will get easier then you get more experience stealing stuff

Ryoendymon · February 2017

I imagine so, but seriously, it wouldn't be hard to tag all witness npcs, "wtiness false" to "witness true" a basic true false code associated with whatever crime your char is involved with. if no npc is marked "true" no bounty

NetViperX · February 2017

I always thought this was poorly handled as well. It was much better in Skyrim; crimes in a given city had no effect on guards in a different city, and if you kill all witnesses the bounty is gone.

BreacaT · February 2017

Other than the aforementioned shortcomings of the bounty system, there are quite a few thieves den entrances that you can safely get to without getting near any guards. I tend to use 'Ghost Snake Vale' way shrine in Deshaan and run to the hideout entrance outside of Mournhold. The other I have used is the one in Belkarth, a much shorter run but more guards. I'm sure there are others, seek them out.

WalkingLegacy · February 2017

Too much logic OP.

Get it out of here, it does not belong.

Narvuntien · February 2017

CSI Tamerial tracks you down.

Ryoendymon · February 2017

I get that its a fantasy world, IE you can explain most off with "MAGIC!"

But you would think it would be a while, like wait a week "has anyone seen johnny?"

pattyLtd · February 2017

Did you leave dna at the crime scene?

Cryptical · February 2017

What you should have done the instant you were attacked is do everything to stealth, or jump somewhere that the npc will not be able to reach you and will reset. In a crowd, it's cheaper to let the one npc kill you than return fire and risk attacking innocents, raising your bounty and the size of the mob on you.

Learn the blade of woe. Use it on them before they catch you fiddling with their safebox.

Maybe put some rogue stealth pots on your quick slot so if you can't get a crouch to complete, you can pop one of those.

Tryxus · February 2017

Purrmaid · February 2017

Well.
We play in a world of magic, whose not to say the moment they spot you doing something criminal they send out a magical note with your picture on it. So even if you slay them: it's too late. You're in the records!

Jitterbug · February 2017

Can't a mindless mass murderer catch a break!?

theher0not · February 2017

It should work like skyrim. If the player manages to kill all the witnesses before any of them getting away the bounty is removed. The game already keep track of which NPC sees you in some way (I assume that is why multiple NPC can insult us for failing at crime/attacking us).

It should be an easy change to make, that could probably be done with some very basic programing (it could probably be done with a few "if" commands)

JasonSilverSpring · February 2017

Given that this is an MMO I don't think the Skyrim singleplayer system would work well here. The whole point of the bounty system is to manage risk versus reward. If one could go into any home and murder everyone without any care for stealth it would be too easy to ransack every single home in the game.

If you use stealth you can still get away with a lot of stealing without getting a bounty. It just takes learning NPC movement patterns, stealth/invisibility potions, etc. And, as noted the blade of woe if you have the Dark Brotherhood DLC is very handy and you can get it rather quickly.

hmsdragonfly · February 2017

Maybe the victim shouts too loud?
xD

LadyLavina · February 2017

Title made me remember trips to Disney World as a kid. 10/10

video below

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F2shuyGrRL0

BlackSparrow · February 2017

Psychic guards, man. Psychic guards.

But really, as you gain experience with this system, you learn to know your escape routes. Always know where the nearest wayshrine is, and have a good place to port that has access to an Outlaw's Refuge without any guards (the best I know are the Anvil Wayshrine if you have DB, the Sentinel Wayshrine if you've made it to Alik'r, and the Harborage in Auridon if your character is AD-aligned).

Now with Homestead, you have a free teleport at any time, so... where's your house? Is it near a wayshrine you can use to get to one of the above locations? Sleek Creek seems to be best as an easy getaway, since it's right next to a refuge, but I've found a few other ones have access to a wayshrine or Refuge nearby. Just know where the guards are and avoid those areas.

Easier said than done, I know, but you'll get the hang of it.

Dragonking06 · February 2017

I agree. At the very least, any bounty you earn in one zone/Alliance territory, shouldn't transfer to another. Should work how it does in Skyrim, 2000 gold bounty in Markarth hold, travel to Riften and you're just another unknown face, to any that haven't played the game. (Why haven't you?! It's awesome!)

I'd love to see this kind update to the justice system. That being said. I have heard things being said in one of my guilds, whispers of a future update to the justice system, so we can always hope... And wait... (like how I'm waiting and drowning in treasure maps for a fix for paintings loot! Sorry, off topic rant over.)

To ease the problem of bounties you should try doing the Thieves Guild quests/Dailies. The counterfeit Pardon Edicts from the Tip board are so god damn handy, I always try to keep a few on my person at all times in case my hand 'accidentally' slips into a persons pocket or safebox and the owners happen to see it...

Myrrah · February 2017

Purrmaid wrote: »

Well.
We play in a world of magic, whose not to say the moment they spot you doing something criminal they send out a magical note with your picture on it. So even if you slay them: it's too late. You're in the records!

aka: cell phones? 0.0

Xvorg · February 2017

Ryoendymon wrote: »

Ok, so as a returning player, I have screwed myself due to the lack of logic in the crime system.

I was in a building, doing a bit of stealing, trying to find the blueprints to furnish my home (the purchase took nearly all my cash) I get caught, I expect a bounty to pay next time a guard sees me. The citizen attacks me. I think, "oh ***, well I am here in a small room, only a couple npcs here, if I kill them all, no witness, no bounty." so i kill the npcs, I have a bounty......

Logically, with no witnesses, how do you have a bounty. There should be a system in place where a victim must make it to a guard. But, it only gets more annoying from here.

I think, ok, I have a bunch of stuff to fence, I can go, pay the fence, clear my bounty, right? NOPE!

Guard in another zone sees me, kills me, takes all my stolen goods (which he magically knows are stolen despite no witnesses, and them all being from another zone) takes all my gold toward my bounty. (Which doesn't clear it, but leaves me penniless, with damaged armor) and when I rez, I still owe a few hundred.

It says the guards will no longer attack me on sight, ok yay, I still have a few items that were legit, I should be able to sell, that might clear my bounty. I go toward the outlaw den, guard stops me, I cannot pay the bounty, and I do not have the clemency option, so it times out to a flee, which increases my bounty higher, and he kills me pushing my repair bill higher -.-;;

So I cannot get to a vendor to repair my gear, or vendor anything, if I try, my bounty just goes up, and all of this stemming from a petty theft, where all the witnesses were killed, without leaving the building, in a completely different zone.

I am working on clearing this up myself in game, but the point is, once all witnesses are slain, you shouldn't have a bounty, or be wanted,

Prety much like in Morrowind

NewBlacksmurf · February 2017

Your logic makes sense, however, the game is this way because .....honestly.....nothing in this game is logical.

It's built on a premise that doing wrong will create a penalty and the only way to avoid bounties are by means of behaving a certain way but not using logic

I'll say this. If it was logic based, it would be exploited so they're using video game logic (not logical)

kamimark · February 2017

Ryoendymon wrote: »

Ok, so as a returning player, I have screwed myself due to the lack of logic in the crime system.
So I cannot get to a vendor to repair my gear, or vendor anything, if I try, my bounty just goes up, and all of this stemming from a petty theft, where all the witnesses were killed, without leaving the building, in a completely different zone.
I am working on clearing this up myself in game, but the point is, once all witnesses are slain, you shouldn't have a bounty, or be wanted,

My "this game is insane" trigger is that carrots and potatoes are marked "stolen". How? I don't object to getting a bounty for being seen stealing food, but the food needing to be laundered is madness. But that's the rules of the world.

First, learn how not to be seen. Stay in stealth and out of range of the guards, and you can go anywhere; use invisibility potions when you're trapped. The thief trove stealth potions are good, but crafted ones will last a little longer.

Second, in every zone there's always an outside entrance to the outlaw dens, usually near a wayshrine with no guards. Don't try running thru a city with a bounty.

Third, there are two zones with no justice: Cyrodil and Coldharbour. So port there, and pay a vendor to repair.

Fourth, wait out the bounty doing something safe, like dungeons or fishing.

SickDuck · February 2017

Sounds logical except IRL you can get caught even if you don't leave witnesses. Don't learn it the hard way...

Spacemonkey · February 2017

honestly, stealing is so easy, just go trial and error on your first few tries and youll figure out how to get away with stuff with the current system.

If they made it 'logical', the guards should still arrest you in 4 months for having killed semiral and stashed him in his midden heap, EVEN though you went and paid off your bounty at the fence. If I was a guard, I wouldnt give a rat's bottom about your bounty. Also, I'd muster the guards and raid/close/empty all those refuge areas that are in EACH city.

so yeah... *shakes head*
...asking for full realistic logic in video games about stealing and murdering.....

ZiRM · February 2017

Logic has no place in ESO.

illuminousflux · February 2017

I recommend the Rawl'kha wayshrine in Reaper's March if you're trying to get to an outlaw den without being seen by guards. The outlaw den is very close to the wayshrine and easily accessed without having to worry about guards. Another thing to keep in mind is that guards will only chase you so far, so if you can heal through their attacks, break CC/dodge roll enough times, then you can get away safely. Or do all your thieving on sorcerer, in which case you can just streak a few times and you'll get away ezpz.

Violynne · February 2017

zaria wrote: »

If you play an alt or log off bounty will also go down.

I'll have to check this out, but I could have sworn when I had a bounty for accidentally stealing a bow lying on a table, my bounty was not cleared when I logged back in.

Sort of like food buffs: they don't diminish just because you're offline.

TX12001rwb17_ESO · February 2017

SickDuck wrote: »

Sounds logical except IRL you can get caught even if you don't leave witnesses. Don't learn it the hard way...

except in Tamriel they don't have the technology required to do that.

Cryptical · February 2017

Violynne wrote: »

zaria wrote: »

If you play an alt or log off bounty will also go down.

I'll have to check this out, but I could have sworn when I had a bounty for accidentally stealing a bow lying on a table, my bounty was not cleared when I logged back in.

Sort of like food buffs: they don't diminish just because you're offline.

Actually, it's just that your bounty was high enough to still have some left by the time you logged back in.

TheShadowScout · February 2017

Ryoendymon wrote: »

Logically, with no witnesses, how do you have a bounty. There should be a system in place where a victim must make it to a guard...

That's just what happens! As soon as you slay your victim, their ghost runs to the nearest guard and tells them "Halp, that guy killed me!", and this is how you get a bounty!
But...
...only if your victim knows who killed them! Strike them down with one blow before they even see you and you are clear!
Blade of Woe for the win!

Now... if you have a bounty... you definitely want to avoid all guards. best way to do that is to pop to an wilderness wayshrine, then use the outside entrace (every outlaw den has one entrace outside the city limits, where no guards patrol) to get to your trusty fence, and take care of all those annoying issues like having freshly stolen loot on you (which the guards obviously can pick out with an "identify stolen goods" spell), and pay off your bounty as well.
In a pinch, hide out in cyrodil until your bounty is gone, that place is a war zone, noone cares if you are a inglorious murdering basterd there as long as you murder only the enemy... coldharbour is another lawless place where you can always hide and hunt daedra for fun and profit until your bounty goes down. Or just log out and play on an alt long enough.
Another option is using one of those forged pardons, if you got them from your thieves guild missions to do an emergency getting rid of bounty thing... the smuggler assistant can also be good to at least sell your loot if you fear getting nabbed by the guard...

But... if you fail to avoid the guard, there are still some things you can do. Clemency for the professional thieves if you have, uhm "found" something really nifty can be useful, once a day. But otherwise you may just have to bite the bullet and loose all your ill gotten gains...
Unless you want to flee from the coppers, which can be done, but is iffy, unless you do it right next to the docks (jumping into water is a instant escape! Remember that once you start chasing the "getting away" achievement...) or unless you have good selfheals (my criminal templar once got chased through half of Abahs Landing by the guard, her heals kept her unarrested/unkilled until she made it out the city gate and past the guards pursuit range... but it was close...). The footpads are also helpful, look for them when the guard is chasing you in a city with an outlaw refugee. And finally... you can always keep a potion ready to aid you in escaping.

In the end, its all a "learn to crime" issue. Easy enough if you get wise about it. No need to let people have it even easier in bypassing All consequences to criminal actions by just murdering witnesses...