[RANT] The world space is crammed too tightly with annoying crap. Exloration isn't fun.

notimetocare · February 2017

MMORPGS are not the same as single player RPGs.

R1ckyDaMan · February 2017

notimetocare wrote: »

MMORPGS are not the same as single player RPGs.

Nope they are not, they are vastly inferior in many many ways.

Seraphayel · February 2017

I agree. There are so many mobs in the world... it's pretty unrealistic especially when it's always the same type of mobs in the same constellation.

Healer + archer + warrior
Two wolves

There are just too many mobs in the open world.

zaria · February 2017

Alp wrote: »

spencer2361 wrote: »

Didn't this game get crushed at launch for to many wide open spaces?

Yeah, people called Cyrodiil at least a "walking simulator". It's kinda sad, it's my favourite part of Cyrodiil.

In beta and early game most did not have horses, also as nobody knew each other it was little resurrects

Ozstryker · February 2017

Phinix1 wrote: »

Just as an aside to this, has anyone noticed that most NPC's in this game are passive aggressive narcissistic manic depressives?

Seriously it is so obnoxious to sit in a city for 5 minutes and all you hear is "moan moan moan, woe and misery, is there no end to this curse, sigh sigh sigh* like seriously shut the hell up already.

Dark elves are the worst. L2 have something interesting to say!

Had to laugh.... Perfectly described 99% of the posts and replies in these here forums.....

MLGProPlayer · February 2017

Dahveed wrote: »

It's strange how the more our technological skill advances in video games, the less skilled devs become at making good open world games. I remember even playing games like Dragon Warrior and Final Fantasy (the very first one) how exciting it was to discover a cave, or a new town, or perhaps a structure you'd pass but couldn't access because it was cut off by mountains... and the anticipation you'd feel when much later on in your main quest you'd finally be allowed in and your heart would skip a beat.

Games just can't accomplish this anymore. Our ADD generation just needs to have flashy stuff thrown in our faces every 3 seconds or we get bored I guess. And that's how we wind up with ESO's clusterf** of an open world. Nothing about exploration in this game excites me.

Have you played the Witcher 3? Easily the best open world RPG ever made. And it would not have been possible without today's technology.

I agree with the rest of your post. The overcrowding of the map in this game also makes the world seem smaller than it actually is.

Zvorgin · February 2017

MakoFore wrote: »

also - while we re on solo / quest play - the puzzles are such dog S#$T that I'm amazed a human thought of them and not my dog. I mean one is literally walking around to 4 orbs and pressing a button to activate them. others are matching the panels to the panels above- i mean really?!?! are we here?
after games like unchained have come out- with amazing interactive puzzles- i think they left alot to be desired on that front. I think the mechanics team, design , the combat team ( in terms of core mechanics and playability) , the graphics and sound teams are all amazing.

the questing , itemisation, combat in terms of balance and mathematics , zoning and of course technical departments- all need looking at - and could be improved to the benefit of the game.

I'm fine with removal of all puzzles from quests, if I wanted to play puzzles I'd buy puzzles. I do agree solo questing is worthless because it offers 0 challenge due to One Tamriel. Prior to that you could just go to a zone above your level for a challenge.

I leveled one toon through Cadwell's Gold and don't plan on questing another after that slog.

AlexanderDeLarge · February 2017

"There's too much to do" is a pretty nice complaint to have in a MMO. You'll appreciate it 1000 hours down the line... Though I do understand the lack of "exploration" which has been a problem in The Elder Scrolls as a series since Oblivion.

Sharee · February 2017

Gotta agree with the OP. It's hard to feel excited from discovering something when you discover something every 10 seconds just walking in a straight line.

Sometimes i wish they would just take all landmass, blow it up x20, and put it back down without touching the points of interest.

Ermiq · February 2017

Prof_Bawbag wrote: »

I posted a very similar thread once. I agree. I think for some people, the problem becomes more glaring the longer you play the game. Never used to bother me, but it's something that does now kinda irritate me. I liked FO4 more than FO3 and NV primarily because I wasn't tripping over hostile npcs every 2ft. Used to be really bad in Oblivion too.

I hate FO4. Its respawn system completely awful. Everytime when I was going by some place, I was involved in a battle with exactly the same mutant/raders I've killed already 5 minutes ago! Every time! It was odd and nervous and nonesense in a singleplayer game. It was terrible.
But in ESO it is quite normal. It's an MMO game. MMO must be like this. But in singleplayer Fallout game... I hate FO4. Really. The worst Bethesda's game ever.

zaria · February 2017

Sharee wrote: »

Gotta agree with the OP. It's hard to feel excited from discovering something when you discover something every 10 seconds just walking in a straight line.

Sometimes i wish they would just take all landmass, blow it up x20, and put it back down without touching the points of interest.

20x would be too much, 3x makes more sense.

An difrerence from Skyrim is the the roads are pretty safe. In Skyrim they was more dangerous than wilderness.

subtlezeroub17_ESO · February 2017

I still don't get people expecting single player features in an MMO.

This thread reeks of being whiny.

Zvorgin · February 2017

subtlezeroub17_ESO wrote: »

I still don't get people expecting single player features in an MMO.

This thread reeks of being whiny.

There would be a million threads of "the world is too big" if it wasn't the way it is.

Want wide open spaces, Cyrodiil is it.

Gedalya · February 2017

I agree in a general sense; for me though my feeling is that the world of Tamriel is just too small. In the TES video games it comes off as large but practically speaking the whole continent just isn't and this is what is being seen in TESO. I would have like that ZOS had taken a liberty here and made the continent, lets say, 25% larger, or even more, so we have more space to play in. But it is what it is and I've been extremely happy with the game over all in any event.

Dahveed · February 2017

subtlezeroub17_ESO wrote: »

I still don't get people expecting single player features in an MMO.

This thread reeks of being whiny.

The very first word in the very title of the thread is "{RANT}". What did you expect? I just needed to vent.

I know it's an MMO and they have MMO-ey stuff they need to include. I was just hoping it could have been less extreme. Oh well.

MythicEmperor · February 2017

Phinix1 wrote: »

Just as an aside to this, has anyone noticed that most NPC's in this game are passive aggressive narcissistic manic depressives?

Seriously it is so obnoxious to sit in a city for 5 minutes and all you hear is "moan moan moan, woe and misery, is there no end to this curse, sigh sigh sigh* like seriously shut the hell up already.

Dark elves are the worst. L2 have something interesting to say!

......

How dare you, fetcher? Dunmer are superior in every aspect. You, N'wah, should L2 respect your Dunmer overlords

dbgager · February 2017

You want a game that is 100 Gig where you have to ride for 10 minutes to get somewhere. That game would cost to much to make. Plus it would feel empty.

MasterSpatula · February 2017

OP's memory of Oblivion is very different from mine. The inability to go 4 steps without another fight has been a flaw in every TES game I've ever played, though Skyrim was a slight improvement in this category.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xn_h9L4l2Rg

Dahveed · February 2017

MasterSpatula wrote: »

OP's memory of Oblivion is very different from mine. The inability to go 4 steps without another fight has been a flaw in every TES game I've ever played, though Skyrim was a slight improvement in this category.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xn_h9L4l2Rg

Except that it's not just a memory. I still play Oblivion and can confirm that it its open world is like an empty desert compared to ESO.

Tapio75 · February 2017

As it would be in the reality, use roads, roads are safe, when you venture to the wild, theres quite a few creatures, dangerous and othervise.

My only complain is, that people riding and running past these enemies get away with it too often. It should not be so easy to go past dangerous stuff if you are not in the road.

Tapio75 · February 2017

Besides, if mob density is lessened like Warcraft did, the world will essentially feel empty and dead like it is in WOW's older areas now.

You are not supposed to play the game sprint glued down anyways.

BadLuckCharm · February 2017

srfrogg23 wrote: »

Dahveed wrote: »

I know it's way, WAY too late to complain about something like this, and this rant won't accomplish anything. But I can't be the only one that is annoyed by this.

Isn't it odd that in a supposedly huge open world, that my character can't ride for literally more than 4 seconds without pulling aggro from a random creature or bandit that wants to kill me? Or that I leave a wayshrine and 7 seconds later I find an Ayleid ruin, so I run past that ruin and 9 seconds later I find a cave, and then 5 seconds after that I run into a dolmen, followed by a delve 14 seconds later, then 8 seconds after that a settlement.

And all the while being chased by an army of angry wasps and bandits who just patrol the same 3 meters until the end of time just waiting for me to pass so they can chase me.

This game has a lot going for it, but I find the exploration aspect to be the worst in any RPG I have ever played. When I find something "new" (i.e. copy/pasted assets) ever 15 seconds, it's hardly exhilarating. When I find a new treasure chest every 2 minutes that has nothing but a few gold and some random green item in it, it's hard to get excited. When I cannot run for (literally) more than 10 seconds without running into an annoying, copy/pasted bandit or creature that wants to kill me for no reason, it's not fun or interesting, just tedious.

I played Oblivion for a bit the other day and I remember traveling on foot from Bruma to Anvil and I had to fight exactly three battles, and I discovered two different caves or structures. But the battles were fun and the locations were interesting because, while exploring, I really had the impression I was in a vast OPEN world with great scenery and atmosphere, and I felt totally immersed in the game, as though I were a true explorer lost in the wilderness.

In ESO I sometimes feel like an insect caught in a blender full of crap they just threw in there as "content". There is no wonder or excitement in discovering anything. It's as though there is some kind of unwritten rule the devs had to obey, that they aren't allowed to leave more than 20 meters of world space between any creatures, caves, treasures, mining nodes etc etc. Literally everywhere I turn there is some crap there to attack me, annoy me or get in my way.

It's strange how the more our technological skill advances in video games, the less skilled devs become at making good open world games. I remember even playing games like Dragon Warrior and Final Fantasy (the very first one) how exciting it was to discover a cave, or a new town, or perhaps a structure you'd pass but couldn't access because it was cut off by mountains... and the anticipation you'd feel when much later on in your main quest you'd finally be allowed in and your heart would skip a beat.

Games just can't accomplish this anymore. Our ADD generation just needs to have flashy stuff thrown in our faces every 3 seconds or we get bored I guess. And that's how we wind up with ESO's clusterf** of an open world. Nothing about exploration in this game excites me.

/end rant.

Clearly, you've never been to Azeroth.

Agreed. I was thinking that ESO was one of the better games for this. WoW is way worse than ESO in terms of mob clutter. Many games are, even.

Taleof2Cities · February 2017

Soriana wrote: »

Go.To.Cyrodiil

^This.^

Head to Cyrodiil on a quiet server ...

Remag_Div · February 2017

SirAndy wrote: »

This is by design ...

In an MMO where you share world assets with other players, you have to have a higher density of assets, otherwise your game world becomes way too sparse.

You also need to have a fairly high respawn rate for the same reasons. Although ESO is smart enough to adjust the respawn rate depending on the number of players in the area.

This is one of those things that you just can't compare to solo games like Oblivion. The design has to take other players into consideration.

This is the only answer the thread needs.

I understand what the OP means, but it's just the way it has to be since it's an MMO.

Dahveed · February 2017

Remag_Div wrote: »

SirAndy wrote: »

This is by design ...

In an MMO where you share world assets with other players, you have to have a higher density of assets, otherwise your game world becomes way too sparse.

You also need to have a fairly high respawn rate for the same reasons. Although ESO is smart enough to adjust the respawn rate depending on the number of players in the area.

This is one of those things that you just can't compare to solo games like Oblivion. The design has to take other players into consideration.

This is the only answer the thread needs.

I understand what the OP means, but it's just the way it has to be since it's an MMO.

I kind of understand but don't fully buy the "because it's an MMO" argument. They need the mobs, the nodes, the "stuff"... but it doesn't have to be this ridiculous all the time.

Apparently some of the newer zones aren't as bad... I hope not. Hopefully Vvardenfell will be much more interesting.

nimander99 · February 2017

At the rate at which each update is consuming my PC memory when we have all of Tamriel fleshed out this will be the only game on my PC... double the size of the zones and I'm done.

But I feel ya OP. Tradeoffs.

lailoken · February 2017

Wish I had OP's issue. OP, maybe don't level up your mount/movement speed if you can come across those things so quickly? =p

Wanderinlost · February 2017

The problem with ESO and many other modern MMO games is a matter of formulated design. The content follows a very predictable pattern, and after doing even a single play area you have seen 90% of what the game has to offer. I would say this has been a trend that began with WoW particularly in BC with the development of quest hubs. This predictability has some benefits but it does take something away. I have not done all the content in ESO so I cannot say with complete certainty, but every indication is that the 15th zone will be little different than the first. You got your primary quest in every sub area, your dolmens, your delves, POI's etc. I cannot say I have ever experienced a real surprise or significant challenge in any of them. That is not to say the experience is a bad one, the RPG/progression elements are decent enough. I just miss the days when you inevitably run into danger area, seeing a wall of red super elite mobs, or inaccessible area's that peak your curiosity or present serious obstacles to exploration. While such elements can be frustrating at times they are also were memorable and ultimately enjoyable when you do get to delve into mysterious areas.

The ESO world isn't exactly small just homogenized and evenly spaced. What would be interesting is if they eventually filled in the continent, and blend zones together. Perhaps offer more unpredictable paths instead of the more linear way it is now? The room for greater exploration. More empty spaces to contrast content, more dynamic elements.

It would be nice to see something more original as well. I recently has the chance to play The Division's survival mode. It was a very interesting way to repurpose the game world. I am not suggesting that ESO needs survival gameplay but perhaps they could do something more radical to keep things interesting.

Dahveed · February 2017

Wanderinlost wrote: »

The problem with ESO and many other modern MMO games is a matter of formulated design. The content follows a very predictable pattern, and after doing even a single play area you have seen 90% of what the game has to offer. I would say this has been a trend that began with WoW particularly in BC with the development of quest hubs. This predictability has some benefits but it does take something away. I have not done all the content in ESO so I cannot say with complete certainty, but every indication is that the 15th zone will be little different than the first. You got your primary quest in every sub area, your dolmens, your delves, POI's etc. I cannot say I have ever experienced a real surprise or significant challenge in any of them. That is not to say the experience is a bad one, the RPG/progression elements are decent enough. I just miss the days when you inevitably run into danger area, seeing a wall of red super elite mobs, or inaccessible area's that peak your curiosity or present serious obstacles to exploration. While such elements can be frustrating at times they are also were memorable and ultimately enjoyable when you do get to delve into mysterious areas.

The ESO world isn't exactly small just homogenized and evenly spaced. What would be interesting is if they eventually filled in the continent, and blend zones together. Perhaps offer more unpredictable paths instead of the more linear way it is now? The room for greater exploration. More empty spaces to contrast content, more dynamic elements.

It would be nice to see something more original as well. I recently has the chance to play The Division's survival mode. It was a very interesting way to repurpose the game world. I am not suggesting that ESO needs survival gameplay but perhaps they could do something more radical to keep things interesting.

Yep.

Vanilla WoW zones were perfect in this respect. Most zones had a sense of unpredictability and danger... always fun to explore. It had the typical "fetch" quest hubs, but you could always trod off the beaten path and put yourself in danger... and be pleasantly surprised.

In a strange turn of events, Vanilla WoW was much more "Elder Scrolls-like" than a game called Elder Scrolls Online.