Please look into fixing the voucher token system with master writs

Nifty2g · February 2017

I honestly think it has been poorly implemented as it stands right now there are 2 layers of RNG on top of each other, getting the master writ and then the amount of vouchers that master writ has. You read non stop on the forums and in game about how everyone hates even ONE system of RNG (undaunted sets, weekly mails, VMA farming, chest loots etc). And you guys bring in a new system which is very good mind you, but is so unappealing with now 2 layers of RNG, it seems more of the.. one step forward two steps back process

For the amount writs are worth and how very infrequent and always mostly unrewarding they are with getting 2 vouchers more often than not, I think it might be a really nice addition to remove one of the RNG layers and provide a fixed number on the vouchers, I think somewhere between 25-50 is a really nice mark. Honestly the worth of the vouchers are not matching up with the items you can buy.

I can appreciate a grind to keep you busy, but just look at how VMA was reacted to with only 1 layer of RNG farming.

Please look into fixing it ZOS

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_RichLambert

Recremen · February 2017

I can see some merit in your idea, but I'd really hate to have to craft a legendary item and only get 25-50 vouchers for it, considering how inordinately rare and expensive the legendary upgrade materials are. Oh wait I just described half the legendary writs because bad combinatorics leads to legendary not counting for squat unless it's paired with nirnhoned, a 9-trait set, or both.

For real though, I love the master writ system, but I also think the voucher amounts need a little more fine-tuning.

Nifty2g · February 2017

Recremen wrote: »

I can see some merit in your idea, but I'd really hate to have to craft a legendary item and only get 25-50 vouchers for it, considering how inordinately rare and expensive the legendary upgrade materials are. Oh wait I just described half the legendary writs because bad combinatorics leads to legendary not counting for squat unless it's paired with nirnhoned, a 9-trait set, or both.

For real though, I love the master writ system, but I also think the voucher amounts need a little more fine-tuning.

I like the system too and it's good to finally get a token system of sorts, I think 25-50 would be a good fixed number for this type of system. Though that's just my opinion. I wouldn't want to go higher cause that just seems like avoiding the grind, the grind is kinda fun when it's at least rewarding.
But dang, you hear all these complaints about 1 layer of RNG, can't imagine why they threw in 2 layers of RNG.

hydrocynus · February 2017

I would rather they remove the lower RNG layer just like they did in vMA ie now you always get a maelstrom weapon but the trait is the RNG.

I would suggest that if you are level 50 in the relevant crafting you are guaranteed a master writ which can have variable quality and related reward dependant on RNG to an extent but factored in your favor dependant on your number of traits researched and motifs known (as an example for the 3 that use those as criteria currently)

rob_ber · February 2017

I would just like they do something with the system. System as it is, is pretty darn silly at the moment. I like the idea of one layer of RNG to be removed. One layer is more than enough. I do agree that MMO has to have some grinding and RNG involved, but two layers over something like crafting .... for instance, from my 270 writs done in last 9 days I got 32 vouchers.

KingYogi415 · February 2017

This is done on purpose to push crown store sales.

All hail the mighty dollar

agegarton · February 2017

Honestly, I just think they need to sort out the drop rate. I'm pretty sure I have the unluckiest account on the EU servers - I got a couple of writs on day one, and nothing since. Bear in mind, my main is a max level crafter in everything. That's almost all styles complete, 9 traits researched in everything, most purple and gold level recipes..... the lot. In readiness for this update, I have another two who aren't far behind, and a further two who are mid level.

You'd think that, after a week of doing writs across all characters, that I'd get an average of one a day at least. Nope. Not even close to that. In fact, it was my lowest level crafter that got the best writ...... so much for RNG

It's a great example of how a really good idea can be poorly implemented simply because someone didn't turn the dial up enough. I think the same is true with Aetheric stuff - rare is ok, but so rare that most accounts won't ever see one? That's just stupid.

I had really hoped that this update would give something back to crafters, but I'm really not seeing it so far. Shame.

MoreDino · February 2017

This update has to last you until the Morrowind release. Enjoy your grind!

SickDuck · February 2017

After a week I can already see voucher prices plummeting. Pretty sure it will be a non-issue after a month or so. Sure some days you get 0-5 vouchers and the other day you may get 100-200 but can't see much issue with that. Once you've bought all the basic stuff from the merchant, getting vouchers won't be that interesting anymore.

I'm against the fixed price idea since different craftings need very different amount of resources (and learning effort). Legendary writs will be a problem in the future when voucher prices will drop below the legendary mats cost.

I could imagine one improvement though. Writs could come all in epic quality with an option to earn extra vouchers by making the item legendary. That would give a good choice between cheap crafting for less reward or a good amount of vouchers for more expensive materials.

Loc2262 · February 2017

I don't care at all about house decoration - I'm not an RPer. All I was looking forward regarding homestead was storage space and the target dummy.

I stated my opinion about this in another thread. I'm not going to craft legendary items - something I barely do for my own characters! - for some RNGsus prayer, and I'm not going to give Z the satisfaction of having succeeded in getting me to spend crown store money instead. ;P

Nifty2g · February 2017

MoreDino wrote: »

This update has to last you until the Morrowind release. Enjoy your grind!

Say it aint so

ereboz · February 2017

I agree with a lot of this but you have to think...this is a system that is here to stay. Once everyone gets their writs and purchases their target skeleton or ebony motif or whatever it becomes a major gold mine. This will,in only a few months, make everyone have millions of gold and really *** the economy,so it needs to remain as is.

luen79rwb17_ESO · February 2017

In my personal experience there is zero consistency between my characaters' development in crafts and the ammount of vouchers recieved.

The max amount of vouchers that my main crafter ever recieved is 6, whereas my least developed crafter has gotten my best reward so far with 17...

This system is like more luck than actually rewarding your dedication to crafting, or at least that has been my personal experience the last couple weeks.

Cherryblossom · February 2017

Nifty2g wrote: »

MoreDino wrote: »

This update has to last you until the Morrowind release. Enjoy your grind!

Say it aint so

yep it's true. the 2 DLC that follow will be fixes to what they break in Morrowind....

Preyfar · February 2017

The worst part is the system takes zero account of the rarity of the motif or even the difficulty crafting the set. I did a master write that required 9 traits (Morkuldin) and Celestial (Trials end game). Total vouchers? 7. That seems REALLY low for 9-trait, rare motif.

I mean, I'm not saying this should have been 80+ vouchers (it was only epic) but... 7? Really? So there's zero difference in vouchers for a crafter who has a 1 trait learned -vs- 9? That's crazy talk!

saxgooner · February 2017

just done my first day writs on xb1 eu.
main crafter all motifs + traits, 93% achievements and nothing.
second crafter nothing.
3rd minimal motifs, 0 traits, 1% complete and I get a master writ.
where is the logic of the more you know better the chance.

STEVIL · February 2017

Preyfar wrote: »

The worst part is the system takes zero account of the rarity of the motif or even the difficulty crafting the set. I did a master write that required 9 traits (Morkuldin) and Celestial (Trials end game). Total vouchers? 7. That seems REALLY low for 9-trait, rare motif.

I mean, I'm not saying this should have been 80+ vouchers (it was only epic) but... 7? Really? So there's zero difference in vouchers for a crafter who has a 1 trait learned -vs- 9? That's crazy talk!

I disagree with your analysis. .

9 traits vs 6 traits - that is already factored into the master system in several ways.
9 traits improves you drop chance.
9 traits mean you wont be stopped from doing one that drops because of it being 9 traits. So the "chances at vouchers" already includes this as a static built in bonus.

Secondly, the mats cost is an "every time per" repeatable expense. the difference between 4 purple and eight gold is ginormous when it is applied every time. that is nothing nothing nothing at all like the one time investment it took to get nine traits or a motifs. it is much larger. So it should factor more heavily by far - just like nirnhoned/nirncrux does - only more.

thirdly, i will likely have all celestial motifs known by tomorrow or over the weekend. the massive "hard to get" will be selling a few draugr motifs i get from daily delves and dolmens and the occasion public dungeon plus the gold from writs to work up the 60-75k i will need to buy them in guild stores. they are freakin everywhere - and at 5-6k per they are frankly cheap for motifs. .

So to me - morkuldin -easy, celestial after this weekend piece of cake - epic and not nirnhoned - fine by me - 7 vouchers looks about right for that.

redspecter23 · February 2017

The problem with the master writ system is that it's an RNG lottery disguised to make you think that the more skill you have in crafting, the better off you are. Your crafting skills (supposedly) increase your odds of receiving a master writ. I'm still not convinced the increase is actually happening. My max trait, nearly max motif main is still pulling equipment master writs at the same rate as all my other crafters after a couple weeks.

The RNG is in the size of the writ. You can do 72 writs daily among 12 toons for months on end and never pull a master writ over 50 vouchers, but anyone with a single crafter with no motifs and zero traits can pull a 300 voucher writ any given day. The skill and dedication of crafting means nothing here. It's the same old RNG insanity that plagues other elements of this game.

My suggestion is to scrap all these cp 150, purple quality item writs and make them all truly "master" writs. Only cp160, only legendary. Sure they will take some expensive mats to make, but we won't have to sift through 20 - 50 writs worth 2 vouchers each before finding one that actually feels like a master writ. The current system doesn't feel like my master crafter is special. 95% of the time it's a trashy 2 voucher writ that you wouldn't need to be a master to make anyway.

STEVIL · February 2017

redspecter23 wrote: »

The problem with the master writ system is that it's an RNG lottery disguised to make you think that the more skill you have in crafting, the better off you are. Your crafting skills (supposedly) increase your odds of receiving a master writ. I'm still not convinced the increase is actually happening. My max trait, nearly max motif main is still pulling equipment master writs at the same rate as all my other crafters after a couple weeks.

The RNG is in the size of the writ. You can do 72 writs daily among 12 toons for months on end and never pull a master writ over 50 vouchers, but anyone with a single crafter with no motifs and zero traits can pull a 300 voucher writ any given day. The skill and dedication of crafting means nothing here. It's the same old RNG insanity that plagues other elements of this game.

My suggestion is to scrap all these cp 150, purple quality item writs and make them all truly "master" writs. Only cp160, only legendary. Sure they will take some expensive mats to make, but we won't have to sift through 20 - 50 writs worth 2 vouchers each before finding one that actually feels like a master writ. The current system doesn't feel like my master crafter is special. 95% of the time it's a trashy 2 voucher writ that you wouldn't need to be a master to make anyway.

my experience says the rates of drop are tied to the crafter stats but really to the achievements as the primary metric. most of the factors if not all of them they discussed have achievements listed for them. My results of casual observation of about 15 days with right at 450 tier-10 writs done across crafter of a wide variety of crafting experience and achievments says the drop rate is significantly different based on how your crafting achievements and overalll achievements are done out - especially those for motifs and all that jazz.

i have not seen any RNG different in the voucher-type beyond of course the fact that some crafting types - equipment vs alchemy - have different achieveable levels. But when i look at clothir/equipment writs which i have available on multiple crafters with greatly different achievement tallies the single largest on i got was on the not my best crafter but the vouchers total from multiple drops hand down without question is won by the better most master crafter.

A formula that closely approaches what i have see if the % of overall craft achieve x the % of specific crafting in question achievement done x 50%.

Cpt_Teemo · February 2017

saxgooner wrote: »

just done my first day writs on xb1 eu.
main crafter all motifs + traits, 93% achievements and nothing.
second crafter nothing.
3rd minimal motifs, 0 traits, 1% complete and I get a master writ.
where is the logic of the more you know better the chance.

Same here basically

12 days - 36 writs per day 0 master writs since then

8 Crafters a day, one of which is my main and has all my motifs / traits on it with the achievements mostly, others are all maxed tier crafters without traits / motifs.

I still think its rigged imo

Yubarius · February 2017

Maybe not a fixed amount of writs, but perhaps a minimal say, 25, to keep some potential to get those really high writ ones while also getting rid of the cases where you receive writs that only give like 2.

saxgooner · February 2017

I sold my 2 voucher alchemy writ for 40k as a test xb1 eu on day 1, might have got more?

Zoner · February 2017

I got 4 master writs yesterday and got less than 10 vouchers in total. For all the effort I went to levelling 9 alts in all crafts with 5 trait minimum and all one-book motifs, in addition to my main who has all traits and all motifs, plus the RNG and the materials required to complete the writs in the first place, it doesn't seem worth it.

MasterSpatula · February 2017

I have to confess that I really don't have a problem with the drop rate of the Writs themselves (though I still haven't pulled Clothing).

The voucher rewards, however, are stunningly low. The writs should have had Blue items, and Blues should have rewarded what Purples do, Purples should have rewarded at about 80% of what Golds currently reward, and Golds (or Ninrhoned) should have rewarded about 150% of what they currently do.

SanTii.92 · February 2017

I get your point, but can't really agree with it. Rng layers are mostly an issue when there are no other options available and/or when the reward is so important that the game kinda forces you to get it, and the sooner the better. Neither is the case with master writs.

Compared it to Vma: A double rng layer, triple at release (drop/item/trait), that also requires practice to complete and master and a certain amount of concentration to farm. On top of that weapons are so strong that you are pretty much forced to pick them up.

Nothing like the vouchers farm, they were design to be a a low effort, medium reward, with ways to circumvent the grind if you really want them, and while neat to have not exactly a necessity.

Cpt_Teemo · February 2017

SanTii.92 wrote: »

I get your point, but can't really agree with it. Rng layers are mostly an issue when there are no other options available and/or when the reward is so important that the game kinda forces you to get it, and the sooner the better. Neither is the case with master writs.

Compared it to Vma: A double rng layer, triple at release (drop/item/trait), that also requires practice to complete and master and a certain amount of concentration to farm. On top of that weapons are so strong that you are pretty much forced to pick them up.

Nothing like the vouchers farm, they were design to be a a low effort, medium reward, with ways to circumvent the grind if you really want them, and while neat to have not exactly a necessity.

I've seen the same people getting writs every day, as well as them being decently high or even in the insane # of vouchers, I just think its rigged tbh.

Taleof2Cities · February 2017

Food for thought, but I wonder if trait research on the equipment writs is a heavier factor than achievements and motif knowledge (for master writ drops)??

I've been doing max writs on three (3) characters daily ... which all three are eight (8) or nine (9) trait researched on all equipment skills.

Have accumulated 400+ vouchers in two weeks on those characters.

It's either that or I'm just getting good RNG ... which is a surprise considering my long-tenured history with RNGeezus.

EDIT: Received another four (4) master writs today on those three characters valued at 100+ vouchers.

SanTii.92 · February 2017

Kyle1983b14_ESO wrote: »

SanTii.92 wrote: »

I get your point, but can't really agree with it. Rng layers are mostly an issue when there are no other options available and/or when the reward is so important that the game kinda forces you to get it, and the sooner the better. Neither is the case with master writs.

Compared it to Vma: A double rng layer, triple at release (drop/item/trait), that also requires practice to complete and master and a certain amount of concentration to farm. On top of that weapons are so strong that you are pretty much forced to pick them up.

Nothing like the vouchers farm, they were design to be a a low effort, medium reward, with ways to circumvent the grind if you really want them, and while neat to have not exactly a necessity.

I've seen the same people getting writs every day, as well as them being decently high or even in the insane # of vouchers, I just think its rigged tbh.

What i meant was that even if you always get master writs, the vouchers itself aren't all that useful or appealing by iteself (without selling).

AFrostWolf · February 2017

I got nothing on my single crafter for a week. Then the other day I got 3 writs in the same day. WAY TOO MUCH RNG.

Preyfar · February 2017

STEVIL wrote: »

I disagree with your analysis

You think a Master Writ that requires 9-trait set and a rare motif should have exactly the same reward as a Master Writ that requires 1-trait and a common motif (Motifs 1-9)? I disagree with your disagreement, and disagree with any future disagreements you may happen to disagree with.

Saturn · February 2017

I'm not too bothered by the double layer of RNG, since ESO has over the past 3 years conditioned me to the horrible RNG systems that are in place EVERYWHERE.

The thing that bothers me are how moronic the Master Writs themselves are.

As an example, I get a 6 voucher master writ that requires me to craft a 9 trait set in the glass style. My friend gets a 45 voucher writ that requires him to craft a 5 trait set in argonian style. There are a lot more examples of stupid stuff like that, for example I've seen a 200 ish writ that required a 2 trait set in a basegame style. My point being that there is no correlation between the amount of vouchers rewarded and the difficulty of the crafting order, which in my opinion is really poor design. So unless you are a fully maxed out crafter with all motives then you basically have 3 layers of RNG. First is if you get a Master Writ at all, second is how many vouchers you are rewarded and third is how difficult it is to craft. They could at the very least streamline it a bit.