Norend_Caloss wrote: »

You're running through Cyrodiil and see a Magicka based build rocking sword and board, or duel wielding. What the devil?! That Rapscallion is using stamina weapons on his magicka build because it behooves you to get the 5-pc set bonus and not use your magicka boom sticks instead.

What would work really well to get rid of this crap, and make 2-handed weapons of all makes and models balanced would be to make two-handed weapons use up 2 pieces of an armor set much like dual wielding and sword and shield do. I understand 1 item = 1 slot...but it should be broken down into hands. 1 hand = 1 slot. If it's 2 handed, it still gets 2 slots. This will break up the meta builds even more and allow people to play with the weapons they want to play with without needing to reach for their set pieces. I.E. 2H and Bow. Instead of DW and 2H.

Would it, though?

On the Stamina side, this wouldn't break up the meta at all. It would actually just put the final nail in Dual Wield's coffin for Stamina builds. Most Stamina characters already use 2H and Bow in PvP, since 2H has much stronger burst than DW. The extra set piece just can't compete with the power of Wrecking Blow->Empowered burst attack->Reverse Slice. If they got an extra set piece, too, then there's just no reason to ever even think about using DW for a Stamina character. And even players who don't run 2H will run S&B, since it makes them a crapload tankier, gives them access to Major Fracture (and with it, a crazy reliable way to proc Tremorscale), and gives them that extra set piece that they now don't need DW for.

So I say no. People always say that it will enhance build diversity, but all I see that change accomplishing is gutting one of the few meaningful tradeoffs of using 2H over DW.

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

EldritchPenguin wrote: »

Norend_Caloss wrote: »

You're running through Cyrodiil and see a Magicka based build rocking sword and board, or duel wielding. What the devil?! That Rapscallion is using stamina weapons on his magicka build because it behooves you to get the 5-pc set bonus and not use your magicka boom sticks instead.

What would work really well to get rid of this crap, and make 2-handed weapons of all makes and models balanced would be to make two-handed weapons use up 2 pieces of an armor set much like dual wielding and sword and shield do. I understand 1 item = 1 slot...but it should be broken down into hands. 1 hand = 1 slot. If it's 2 handed, it still gets 2 slots. This will break up the meta builds even more and allow people to play with the weapons they want to play with without needing to reach for their set pieces. I.E. 2H and Bow. Instead of DW and 2H.

Would it, though?

On the Stamina side, this wouldn't break up the meta at all. It would actually just put the final nail in Dual Wield's coffin for Stamina builds. Most Stamina characters already use 2H and Bow in PvP, since 2H has much stronger burst than DW. The extra set piece just can't compete with the power of Wrecking Blow->Empowered burst attack->Reverse Slice. If they got an extra set piece, too, then there's just no reason to ever even think about using DW for a Stamina character. And even players who don't run 2H will run S&B, since it makes them a crapload tankier, gives them access to Major Fracture (and with it, a crazy reliable way to proc Tremorscale), and gives them that extra set piece that they now don't need DW for.

So I say no. People always say that it will enhance build diversity, but all I see that change accomplishing is gutting one of the few meaningful tradeoffs of using 2H over DW.

This is an asymmetrical argument that doesn't take into account PVE. PVE is far worse slanted toward DW than PVP is towards 2H. Currently if you use 2H, or try to main bar bow, you risk not only performing substandard dps, but you risk being booted from groups. DW with a back bar bow IS the only accepted form of stamina dps at this point in time.

Making 2H weapons ie staves, bows, 2h swords/maces/axes count for two slots is a step in the right direction although as pointed out DW will suffer in PVP.

DW suffers for a lack of burst, and lack of utility in and out of combat.

The strongest and sometimes most overlooked aspect of 2H is the ability to gain Major Brutality and heal without having to have an enemy in range, target them and actually hit them. Adding in a Gap closer, CC, and execute gives 2H all the tools needed for PVP and make it the logical choice.

Some ideas for DW:

Add a direct heal component to Blood Craze application.
Increase Twin Slashes damage.
Add Major Brutality or Minor Berserk to Deadly Cloak.
Re-work Hidden Blade to be a gap closer.
Add a small HOT to either Whirling Blades or Quick Cloak.
Remove the heal and add a CC to Bloodthirst.

The double slot argument always cuts its own legs out from under it.

First italics establishes bow with one slot as part of the currently only acceptable build.
So the argument is to make that better by giving the bow an additional slot in the interest of balance and diversity.

Follow-on to that we have the idea that this change will make folks determined to only allow the one true build into their group suddenly find enlightenment and allow other configurations...

Instead all it will do is maybe just maybe put something like 2h/bow (dbl slots each" at the top in place of dw/bow and then that new "only acceptable" will be the one you have to take to avoid being booted by those same players saying "If you aint got no DW/Bow, you gots to go-go-go."

And meanwhile, 2h gets better in pvp where it already does well.

Right now you have DW running strong at sustained DPS paired with bow which serves it well for extended combats where there is healer and tank support - ie groups and trials. Burst is not as important against that content.
2h does well in other cases where burst and self-support is more critical - thats PVP for instance.
Bow does well anytime range is good and esp if sneak and range is good which boils down to good support in PVE and also good roles in PVP. Its DPS support and range serves both worlds well but not nec as primary.

While that means no one weapon is king everywhere... thats not a bad definition of a form of balance.

i am fond of saying "everything should be great somewhere and nothing should be great everywhere."

Not saying that there are no room for changes and improvements but the blunt maul of "double set bonuses" is not the tool needed here - more selective precise targetted adjustments are most likely needed here. Scalpels, not maces.

As Joan of Arc once said:
"You don't find diversity by super-sizing the sameness."



.

I use 2 4 piece sets, a monster set, and use 2 different weapons for my build. Bow has 1 set, 2hand another. They synergize together. Id love to be able to use both sets on both bars as id be able to be a bit more powerful, but other things would have to change imho yo make it happen.

Ive used dual wield before until i realized how much dps i was lacking. I think dual wield synergizes well with class abilities, but rally makes all the difference. Opening with major brutality already on, and ability to heal to 100 percent if things go south make a world of difference. Wrecking blow while strong, is easy to dodge, and really only hurts medium armor players. Heavy armor with immovability on or sheild stackers can brush it off.

Additionally my attacks are mostly class abilities but the heavy attacks do more dmg, and reverse slice is a great execute, aoe dmg plus 50 percent to start.


Personally i think there should be some clear differences for using one or the other. Dual wield should maybe have shorter range, but maybe is a precision or crit build, with a chance to inflict unresistable damage, or apply surprise to the target applying minor vulnerability. I feel like ambush shoulda been a dual wield. Itd be great if the skills changed based on your weapons equipped.

2hander should be sharepened, and offer a chance to apply crushing to the target, or 5 percent change to ignore all shields or resistances. I feel like crit rush should do aoe knock down dmg for opponents in your path.

These are just rough ideas, staves and bows could be reworked in the same fashion.


And honestly we live in a world of magic. Id love to see more morphs of skills instead of just 2. Why not a magic wielding tanking with a magical sword and shield? Dr strange pulls his weapons out of thing air. LoL

Norend_Caloss wrote: »

What the devil?!

Off topic excuse me But I laughed so hard at this sentence for some reason.

And I agree completely. 2 handed weapons need to count as 2 (which is probably impossible to realize) so they should add some kind of glove for these weapons to carry the set piece.