Why can't ZOS simply throw more servers to the cluster to handle the load?
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RinaldoGandolphi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭They could probably do well to add more computing power. All the calculations going they simply don't have the compute power to handle it. Hence the lag. They need to keep throwing more hardware at it till it stops lagging...if that means renting another 128 servers per month each with Intel 128 core cpu in them, then so be it...they are making more then enough money to afford it.
Rinaldo Gandolphi-Breton Sorcerer Daggerfall Covenant
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Sorcerer's - The ONLY class in the game that is punished for using its class defining skill (Bolt Escape)
"Here in his shrine, that they have forgotten. Here do we toil, that we might remember. By night we reclaim, what by day was stolen. Far from ourselves, he grows ever near to us. Our eyes once were blinded, now through him do we see. Our hands once were idle, now through them does he speak. And when the world shall listen, and when the world shall see, and when the world remembers, that world will cease to be. - Miraak0 -
Kahsa✭✭✭I read somewhere on here that the super-server is something like 16 servers linked together in Texas. ZOS says the lag is caused by more stuff occurring at once (computing proc sets with abilities and mitigation, etc.) but has never addressed the hardware side of things. I doubt they have upgraded/added to their servers since launch and instead they waste money on silly contests. That "million" they gave away to a guy who probably no longer plays couldve been invested in servers (50k a year could've added several servers), instead their marketing folks thought otherwise.
You'd be surprised how easily $1 million disappears when buying enterprise grade servers.
wwg.com/2017/02/01/zenimax-wins-500-million-settlement-from-oculus-rift/0 -
LadyLavina✭✭✭✭✭
✭No time for better servers, gotta push more $15 2-dungeon DLCs and crown items.PC - NA @LadyLavina 1800+ CP PvP Tank and PvP Healer2 -
Sylosi✭✭✭✭✭
✭This is unmitigated horse crap. the lag is due to a combination of network transport latency and server processing lag not game design. What needs to be addressed are sever and network load balancing and it isn't as easy as it sounds, I know because before I retired I was a Consulting Engineer contracted to Digital Reality. We provided server systems for many online games.
Also if these Data centers are anywhere near North Dallas there is a very good chance they are on Century link which has the single worst infrastructure in the country, also those data centers won't be changing anytime soon, so the best we can hope for is a new contract with new data centers which brings its own stabbing your eye out with a fork issues.
If you people are going to ***, *** about the right things not something as idiotic as bad design.
Erm game design and the code do indeed have an effect on lag, you clearly have no idea what you are talking about.
Edited by Sylosi on February 11, 2017 1:25AM2 -
RinaldoGandolphi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭This is unmitigated horse crap. the lag is due to a combination of network transport latency and server processing lag not game design. What needs to be addressed are sever and network load balancing and it isn't as easy as it sounds, I know because before I retired I was a Consulting Engineer contracted to Digital Reality. We provided server systems for many online games.
Also if these Data centers are anywhere near North Dallas there is a very good chance they are on Century link which has the single worst infrastructure in the country, also those data centers won't be changing anytime soon, so the best we can hope for is a new contract with new data centers which brings its own stabbing your eye out with a fork issues.
If you people are going to ***, *** about the right things not something as idiotic as bad design.
Erm game design and the code do indeed have an effect on lag, you clearly have no idea what you are talking about.
They both go hand in hand
you cna have perfect code, but if your hardware is not up to the task it won't perform well.
Code can be optimized, but investing in lots of hardware to brute force and get by, not perfect but get by.
Intel's very large single core IPC(Instruction Per Clock) have allowed them to brute force poorly optimized games and still get very good performance. Tossing hardware can sometimes be a good answer, refactoring code is also a very good way.
ZOS could do with more compute power regardless, it would help performance.Edited by RinaldoGandolphi on February 11, 2017 1:28AMRinaldo Gandolphi-Breton Sorcerer Daggerfall Covenant
Juste Gandolphi Dark Elf Templar Daggerfall Covenant
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Mathias Gandolphi - Breton Nightblade Daggerfall Covenant
RinaldoGandolphi - High Elf Sorcerer Aldmeri Dominion
Officer Fire and Ice
Co-GM - MVP
Sorcerer's - The ONLY class in the game that is punished for using its class defining skill (Bolt Escape)
"Here in his shrine, that they have forgotten. Here do we toil, that we might remember. By night we reclaim, what by day was stolen. Far from ourselves, he grows ever near to us. Our eyes once were blinded, now through him do we see. Our hands once were idle, now through them does he speak. And when the world shall listen, and when the world shall see, and when the world remembers, that world will cease to be. - Miraak1 -
Kalante✭✭✭✭✭
✭ZOS has more money than CCP Games.
Zos can afford to get systems like this https://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/tranquility-tech-3/
You won't ever see anything like that coming from zos. Look at that dev post from ccp, so much information of their server performance straight in your face. What is the point of having money if zos is not willing to spend it were it truly matters. No matter how much you paint this turd gold it is till a piece of turd in the inside.Edited by Kalante on February 11, 2017 1:55AM0 -
ADarklore✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Funny how people talk about ZOS having the money to buy the Super Bowl ad, yet it is actually BETHESDA that is in charge of all the marketing; which means they have separate accounts and don't simply shuffle money around.CP: 2105 ** ESO+ ** ~~ ***** Strictly a solo PvE quester *****
~~Started Playing: May 2015 | Stopped Playing: July 2025 | Returned: March 2026~~2 -
Sylosi✭✭✭✭✭
✭RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »They both go hand in hand
I didn't say they didn't, simply that the person I replied to making out game design / code is of no relevance is talking nonsense.Edited by Sylosi on February 11, 2017 1:39AM0 -
ESOUser0x00✭✭✭ESOUser0x00 wrote: »I'm not familiar with MMORPG tech but for cloud to scale up, you simply throw more machine resources.
Not quite that simple. There are two approaches to scaling IT services:
Scale up - i.e. add more resource too each node, such as more CPUs, more RAM, faster hard drives, more NICs etc
Scale out - i.e. add more nodes to the cluster/load-balanced array
Most services use a combination of the approaches but crucially, each has laws of diminishing returns depending on the software architecture. Some services, say Exchange Server, Active Directory and SQL Server, scale out excellently, in some cases hundreds of nodes can be uniformly load balanced automatically. Other services, e.g. vanilla LDAP directories, scale out badly and should be scaled up, but you then reach physical limitations of the host, e.g. perhaps it can only hold 32 CPUs or something. Some hardware architectures scale up better - NUMA for example - but the hosted service must run NUMA aware code (such as Exchange or SQL) or that service will fail to scale with it, in fact it may perform worse the more CPUs you add.
Now, we don't know how ZOS have done this but let's be honest, they're not really on the ball in terms of modernity of their code, so we can easily envisage a case where they're in a corner due to weak architecture decisions early in development and therefore cannot easily take advantage of hardware scalability.
Hmm, why does active directory scale out excellently while vanilla LDAP directories don't?0 -
zaria✭✭✭✭✭
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My guess is that they rent room in an datacenter and can add or even rent servers.What if the building is already full. Then you would have to get estimates for an addition to the warehouse. That could takes months/years depending on building codes weather delays budget. Not likely that is the case but food for thought.
As other says its more about server communication. The weird thin is why it popped up now.
Probably because some under the hood stuff who was added with homestead.
Grinding just make you go in circles.
Asking ZoS for nerfs is as stupid as asking for close air support from the death star.0 -
ESOUser0x00✭✭✭Its about game design, no amount of extra servers is going to solve this problem because the way the game was designed, the calculations, and the amount of players interacting at one time unless you are suggesting that everyone gets their own personal sever like the days of ultima online where everyone had their turnkey.
Doesn't WoW have an order of magnitude more players at its peak that even if their calculations were lighter their load will be that much heavier? Plus they were designed like a decade ago.0 -
Xundiin✭✭✭✭
...as one of those degree-holding IT professionals I will politely disagree.
You can politely disagree all you want. Fact out weighs your disagreement. There are people who work for Microsoft that work in IT who don't hold any licensing or degrees. And I'm not talking about CSR's.#SavePlayer12 -
cjthibs✭✭✭✭✭
✭
...as one of those degree-holding IT professionals I will politely disagree.
You can politely disagree all you want. Fact out weighs your disagreement. There are people who work for Microsoft that work in IT who don't hold any licensing or degrees. And I'm not talking about CSR's.
Of course. That doesn't, however, prove that you can play video games and whine about servers until you're an expert.
You need to actually work with that type of technology. And large compute clusters are not something the average vidya gamer has access to.3 -
RinaldoGandolphi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »They both go hand in hand
I didn't say they didn't, simply that the person I replied to making out game design / code is of no relevance is talking nonsense.
Agreed
Rinaldo Gandolphi-Breton Sorcerer Daggerfall Covenant
Juste Gandolphi Dark Elf Templar Daggerfall Covenant
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Mathias Gandolphi - Breton Nightblade Daggerfall Covenant
RinaldoGandolphi - High Elf Sorcerer Aldmeri Dominion
Officer Fire and Ice
Co-GM - MVP
Sorcerer's - The ONLY class in the game that is punished for using its class defining skill (Bolt Escape)
"Here in his shrine, that they have forgotten. Here do we toil, that we might remember. By night we reclaim, what by day was stolen. Far from ourselves, he grows ever near to us. Our eyes once were blinded, now through him do we see. Our hands once were idle, now through them does he speak. And when the world shall listen, and when the world shall see, and when the world remembers, that world will cease to be. - Miraak0 -
Xundiin✭✭✭✭
...as one of those degree-holding IT professionals I will politely disagree.
You can politely disagree all you want. Fact out weighs your disagreement. There are people who work for Microsoft that work in IT who don't hold any licensing or degrees. And I'm not talking about CSR's.
Of course. That doesn't, however, prove that you can play video games and whine about servers until you're an expert.
You need to actually work with that type of technology. And large compute clusters are not something the average vidya gamer has access to.
I never said you could whine and be an expert. I said if you are passionate enough about something you can learn and be just as knowledgeable. There are many many people that learn Networking, Server structure, game design, ect. that never went to school. You don't need to build a car to understand how it works and fix it. Technology is, for the most part, the same way. There are tons of information available that one who wants to can learn and be just as capable of problem shooting a server problem as you can with your degree. The only thing you have over that said guy is it's easier for you to find a job doing it.Edited by Xundiin on February 11, 2017 1:48AM#SavePlayer14 -
akl77✭✭✭✭✭
✭
...as one of those degree-holding IT professionals I will politely disagree.
You can politely disagree all you want. Fact out weighs your disagreement. There are people who work for Microsoft that work in IT who don't hold any licensing or degrees. And I'm not talking about CSR's.
I agree, I have Double IT degrees, it's still useless at work, the only usefulness is that it gets me in the door of IBM.
Having worked nearly 10 years, I can tell you those big companies processes and methods are all manuals like there's no systems. If system managed, its all full of errors and bugs and never ending fixes, into a big complicated mess.
So don't trust what bullxxx degree.Pc na0 -
zaria✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Problem here is not lag while playing, its lag, that is game design and optimization including the server partThis is unmitigated horse crap. the lag is due to a combination of network transport latency and server processing lag not game design. What needs to be addressed are sever and network load balancing and it isn't as easy as it sounds, I know because before I retired I was a Consulting Engineer contracted to Digital Reality. We provided server systems for many online games.
Also if these Data centers are anywhere near North Dallas there is a very good chance they are on Century link which has the single worst infrastructure in the country, also those data centers won't be changing anytime soon, so the best we can hope for is a new contract with new data centers which brings its own stabbing your eye out with a fork issues.
If you people are going to ***, *** about the right things not something as idiotic as bad design.
Erm game design and the code do indeed have an effect on lag, you clearly have no idea what you are talking about.
You have Rawl'kwa lag who is mostly client side, your gpu and cpu has problems rendering all.
Then you have cyrodil lagfeasts, who also is server communication and handling, this got worse after they moved more to the servers because of cheating.
Finally you have server-server issues, then entering another zone including dungeons or your house new data need to be loaded and you moved to another server for that instance.
My guess is that homestead and the housing instances including other changes messed up stuff.Grinding just make you go in circles.
Asking ZoS for nerfs is as stupid as asking for close air support from the death star.0 -
cjthibs✭✭✭✭✭
✭
...as one of those degree-holding IT professionals I will politely disagree.
You can politely disagree all you want. Fact out weighs your disagreement. There are people who work for Microsoft that work in IT who don't hold any licensing or degrees. And I'm not talking about CSR's.
Of course. That doesn't, however, prove that you can play video games and whine about servers until you're an expert.
You need to actually work with that type of technology. And large compute clusters are not something the average vidya gamer has access to.
I never said you could whine and be an expert. I said if you are passionate enough about something you can learn and be just as knowledgeable. There are many many people that learn Networking, Server structure, game design, ect. that never went to school. You don't need to build a car to understand how it works and fix it. Technology is, for the most part, the same way. There are tons of information available that one who wants to can learn and be just as capable of problem shooting a server problem has you can with your degree. The only thing you have over that said guy is it's easier for you to find a job doing it.
Never met any competent folks in IT that refer to that process as 'problem shooting.'
When I am interviewing most people pay attention to my military experience in the IT field and not-so-much my degree. I agree with that part. But you still need practical experience to understand these things and access to the infrastructure you're analyzing. For example, I'd never assume what ZOS's problems are because I haven't seen what they're working with.
The variables are simply too numerous to make assumptions.4 -
Dr_Rektar✭✭✭Almost created similar thread but thab saw this one...
zos.. seriously?
Edited by Dr_Rektar on February 11, 2017 1:50AMEngine guardian - best set ever0 -
RinaldoGandolphi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
...as one of those degree-holding IT professionals I will politely disagree.
You can politely disagree all you want. Fact out weighs your disagreement. There are people who work for Microsoft that work in IT who don't hold any licensing or degrees. And I'm not talking about CSR's.
Of course. That doesn't, however, prove that you can play video games and whine about servers until you're an expert.
You need to actually work with that type of technology. And large compute clusters are not something the average vidya gamer has access to.
Yup.my first IT job out of college was maintaining 160 severs in 16 branch offices across the United States. I was lucky I interned st a very large company for 8 months helping administer a server cluster 5 times that size to supplement my already good knowledge of technology, but it's not something a computer repair man is just going dive into and be an expert because he plays a game.
As I always say you can never have enough hardware resources. The more the better. It's just like bandwidth can never have enough. Sadly the accountants rarely let us over spec anymore.
Even I don't understand all of ZOS server infrastructure because I haven't had my hands on it. Every network setup has its own quirks and ways it works you learn over time. Then you learn ways to make it better etc(if accounts will approve funds)
As your saying their is far more to understanding this then just playing a game.
Rinaldo Gandolphi-Breton Sorcerer Daggerfall Covenant
Juste Gandolphi Dark Elf Templar Daggerfall Covenant
Richter Gandolphi - Dark Elf Dragonknight Daggerfall Covenant
Mathias Gandolphi - Breton Nightblade Daggerfall Covenant
RinaldoGandolphi - High Elf Sorcerer Aldmeri Dominion
Officer Fire and Ice
Co-GM - MVP
Sorcerer's - The ONLY class in the game that is punished for using its class defining skill (Bolt Escape)
"Here in his shrine, that they have forgotten. Here do we toil, that we might remember. By night we reclaim, what by day was stolen. Far from ourselves, he grows ever near to us. Our eyes once were blinded, now through him do we see. Our hands once were idle, now through them does he speak. And when the world shall listen, and when the world shall see, and when the world remembers, that world will cease to be. - Miraak4 -
TequilaFire✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Let's also not forget about poorly optimized client side code either and flat out bugs like memory leaks.
After all this time you would think game devs could take advantage of multicore processing client side as well.
Servers are an issue but it takes two to tango.Edited by TequilaFire on February 11, 2017 1:54AM0 -
cjthibs✭✭✭✭✭
✭TequilaFire wrote: »Let's also not forget about poorly optimized client side code either and flat out bugs like memory leaks.
After all this time you would think game devs could take advantage of multicore processing client side as well.
Servers are an issue but it takes two to tango.
When ESO was coded multicore gaming was still very much in its infancy.1 -
josh.lackey_ESO✭✭✭✭✭Whichever may the most proficient, it seems that ZOS has neither degree-holding nor autodidactic experts working on server performance. It's all cats. (Just kidding! I can say for sure that at least @ZOS_ChipHilseberg knows what he's doing and does a great job communicating dev stuff with us over at ESOUI.)0 -
runagate✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Don't worry I called the dwemer steampunk IT tech and he just showed up with his assistant, Clumsy Dinosaur.
What could possibly go wrong?4
