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Anybody worried about their investment in ESO?
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AlMcFly✭✭✭✭✭
✭bulbousb16_ESO wrote: »But again, it's not just the dollars, it's also your time that has value.
Some people's "time" has more value than others. Do you know how many unemployed and/or minimum wage workers I've heard say the phrase "time is money"? No. No it's not. Not always. If the time you spend on a videogame was otherwise time you planned to be earning money, then that time potentially "had" value. If you were planning to devote that time to a videogame anyway, then that time never intrinsically had value.
Unless you are a world leader or on-call 24 hours a day for your job, that time you spent on the couch eating Cheetoes is not valuable at all, to anybody. Don't delude yourself. Most people are not worth much to the world.
Before you say "value is not always measured in monetary terms", let me stop you there. This isn't an after school Lifetime channel special. Let's be real. The only "time" which has "value" that actually matters, is time that had monetary worth.Edited by AlMcFly on February 9, 2017 9:06PM2 -
ChaosWotan✭✭✭✭✭A simpler and different way of formulating the question: are you now a bit worried that the creativity and high-quality design of ESO is going downhill after the initial success it had in 2014 and the improvements in 2015? After IC, Homestead, not very impressive thief and DB DLCs, combined with lots of bad taste items in crown store, I no longer dare to raise my expectations that Morrowind will be close to impressive. The wow factor will instead be rather non-existing, I'm afraid.
Edited by ChaosWotan on February 9, 2017 9:14PM0 -
zaria✭✭✭✭✭
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MMO tend to stay around for an long time unless they flop hard or they get an replacement.ChaosWotan wrote: »How many have invested so much time and money on ESO that they start to feel just a tiny bit worried that the devs can no longer deliver what's expected from the best MMOs today?
My only concern is for 10 years or 20 years from now when the servers are shut down; what will I do then?! Because yes, I invest a lot of time in this game; but that is because I love it so much. The Devs have done an extraordinary job given what we as players want (some of us are actually pretty fickle). If anything I might like to see an off-line mode. Can't wait for Morrowind!!!!!!
Yeah, what will happen will all the time and effort I have done and will continue to do when ESO servers shutdown in the future. What will be of my achievements? How I can continue to get them? Will ESO developers give us a offline version to continue playing it?
it don't cost much to just keep the servers running.
Some MMO has unofficial servers but I guess this is because of leaked code.
Grinding just make you go in circles.
Asking ZoS for nerfs is as stupid as asking for close air support from the death star.0 -
Cpt_Teemo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭What I do wish with the Crown store is that they could atleast give us 1 free return a month from whatever 1 purchase we used crowns for to get those crowns back and the item taken back if it hasn't been used or if its in collections.0 -
Darth_Apache✭✭✭Kyle1983b14_ESO wrote: »What I do wish with the Crown store is that they could atleast give us 1 free return a month from whatever 1 purchase we used crowns for to get those crowns back and the item taken back if it hasn't been used or if its in collections.
What like a Crown rewards system?"Darth Apache XB1, NA, AD, StamBlade, DW/Bow"
Insurrection - The Eye - The Nightshade Consortium
Aldmeri Dominion0 -
Darth_Apache✭✭✭bulbousb16_ESO wrote: »This isn't an after school Lifetime channel special.
I could have sworn we were all feminists here devoted to the Lifetime channel!"Darth Apache XB1, NA, AD, StamBlade, DW/Bow"
Insurrection - The Eye - The Nightshade Consortium
Aldmeri Dominion0 -
BRogueNZ✭✭✭✭✭As far as ESO+ goes ..
For the crowns I've purchased I'm feeling they wont get a sub from me again until and unless Morrowind is all I expect it to be. I'm about 3 or 4 months in credit ; value for money wise as far as I'm concerned. I'm managing my inventory well enough in the mean time.
Edited by BRogueNZ on February 9, 2017 9:39PM0 -
Dark_Aether✭✭✭✭ChaosWotan wrote: »How many have invested so much time and money on ESO that they start to feel just a tiny bit worried that the devs can no longer deliver what's expected from the best MMOs today?
You might be playing for the wrong reasons. You should be enjoying the content you have right now, not just hope for a better tomorrow. If you are not, you should think about spending you time on something else.
As much as I get frustrated sometimes like everyone else, I feel like I got my money's worth when I think back; which is why I'm still here.0 -
bulbousb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭
This is absolutely true.Some people's "time" has more value than others.
Not enough! They should. This is why they are where they are.Do you know how many unemployed and/or minimum wage workers I've heard say the phrase "time is money"?
Yes it is. Always. Not much, necessarily, but always.No. No it's not. Not always.
There are games that award small amounts of store points (similar to ESO crowns) through in-game activities. Some games allow subscription time (VIP/premium) to be purchased with these points. Too often, I see people all proud of themselves for earning a free months subscription, after having spent 20 hours grinding points. I love pointing out that instead of 20 hours grinding, they could have spent two hours earning $15 in real cash, and then bought their month of subscription time. But then you always get some people saying, "but I don't have a job". Dude - your time is worth money. Always. You can go out and shovel snow for the money. Or even go collect empty beer cans. There's $7.50 an hour out there for you if you want it - but only if you realize your time is actually worth money.Lethal zergling0 -
raglau✭✭✭✭✭It's not an investment. You pass the time with it. Like all games it's day will come and it'll be gone, replaced by something that does the job more effectively and captivates people deeply.
ESO is not in the best of places right now but if ZOS make Morrowind decent (and it's a big if, judging by previous DLC and the Homestead add-on), then it could get back on track. We'll just have to wait and see but I certainly feel it has a few more years left in it.
Edited by raglau on February 9, 2017 9:51PM0 -
Uriel_Nocturne✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭All MMORPG's end/change over time, OP.
Right now; ESO is well worth the time I devote to it in my Hobby (because Gaming is a hobby like any other hobby), and well worth the money I spend on my subscription. And people spend time/money on their hobbies as long as they're entertaining to each particular individual.
If ESO eventually changes so that it is no longer fun, or inevitably shuts down; I will simply quit playing and devote my time/money to an MMORPG that fulfills those qualifications again.
It's been like this with literally every MMORPG that has ever existed, and it will be this way for as long as MMORPG's exist. that's just the nature of the genre. Nothing to "worry" about, simply enjoy ESO while it's here, cherish the memories when it's gone and you're playing something else.
twitch.tv/vampire_nox
PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say no to Crown Crates!0 -
Cpt_Teemo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Darth_Apache wrote: »Kyle1983b14_ESO wrote: »What I do wish with the Crown store is that they could atleast give us 1 free return a month from whatever 1 purchase we used crowns for to get those crowns back and the item taken back if it hasn't been used or if its in collections.
What like a Crown rewards system?
No they already give us crowns, I'm saying one time refund per month of whatever we bought if it wasn't used or if its a collection item1 -
Darth_Apache✭✭✭Kyle1983b14_ESO wrote: »Darth_Apache wrote: »Kyle1983b14_ESO wrote: »What I do wish with the Crown store is that they could atleast give us 1 free return a month from whatever 1 purchase we used crowns for to get those crowns back and the item taken back if it hasn't been used or if its in collections.
What like a Crown rewards system?
No they already give us crowns, I'm saying one time refund per month of whatever we bought if it wasn't used or if its a collection item
Oh gotchya! Besides purchasing Crowns how else do you receive them?"Darth Apache XB1, NA, AD, StamBlade, DW/Bow"
Insurrection - The Eye - The Nightshade Consortium
Aldmeri Dominion0 -
Tornaad✭✭✭✭✭
✭Is it an investment? Whether you play for fun or more seriously or what have you, the time energy and money you put into the game it is an investment.
That being said it is a GAME. And with it being a game to me if I ever get to the point where I feel obligated to play it then I start hating it. That is one of the biggest things that made me wait until the end of last year before I started to play ESO, I wanted to make sure I would not feel obligated to play it.0 -
Nerouyn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭ChaosWotan wrote: »How many have invested so much time and money on ESO that they start to feel just a tiny bit worried that the devs can no longer deliver what's expected from the best MMOs today?
They continue to make terrible decisions. Housing without storage. Trying to flog 'chapters' as 'not DLC' ergo ESO Plus have to pay more for them. etc. etc.
But the game ain't going under. The company is super rich from its single-player games, including the TES ones, so ESO will continue operating and continue being developed. It would be damaging to the Elder Scrolls IP to let ESO fail under its own weight.
And much of the game it actually really good and very solid. There's just a thin layer of really stupid but easy to fix (had they the will) crap dragging it down.Edited by Nerouyn on February 9, 2017 10:46PM0 -
willlienellson✭✭✭✭✭
Me too, but that's kind of beside the point.What investment? I play for fun; anything I've spent is an entertainment expense. If it's no longer fun I'll stop playing.
It's a little like saying you don't care if the last 10 minutes of a movie are cut off because you didn't really "invest" anything in watching a movie and if you don't get to see the ending you will just do something else.
I imagine someone that grinded a bunch of VMA runs to get a specific weapon would feel like they had made a poor "investment" of time if the server went dark a week after they got their wep of choice.
Grind-filled games make entertainment feel like work. An investment. And ESO has become the most grind-filled game I've ever played.0 -
Cpt_Teemo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭willlienellson wrote: »
Me too, but that's kind of beside the point.What investment? I play for fun; anything I've spent is an entertainment expense. If it's no longer fun I'll stop playing.
It's a little like saying you don't care if the last 10 minutes of a movie are cut off because you didn't really "invest" anything in watching a movie and if you don't get to see the ending you will just do something else.
I imagine someone that grinded a bunch of VMA runs to get a specific weapon would feel like they had made a poor "investment" of time if the server went dark a week after they got their wep of choice.
Grind-filled games make entertainment feel like work. An investment. And ESO has become the most grind-filled game I've ever played.
Ouch, you should try Black Desert online and get back to me on that last one ha.0 -
Nerouyn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭willlienellson wrote: »Grind-filled games make entertainment feel like work. An investment. And ESO has become the most grind-filled game I've ever played.
I agree with the sentiment but ESO is far from the worst in this respect. I find it to be one of the best because the game doesn't force you into any particular grind, with the exception of pvp for pvp skills and skill points.
CP are account wide. That's fantastic. You earn xp for everything.
You can buy motifs and recipes and pretty much anything. So if you find the 'grind' for one of them unbearable you can do something and buy your way (with in-game money, not real) past it.
Many other MMOs don't let you do that. They have set grind-paths and you have to do each grind to get each reward. Multiple currencies, xp types etc. ESO only has gold and a few pvp currencies.2 -
AlMcFly✭✭✭✭✭
✭bulbousb16_ESO wrote: »
This is absolutely true.Some people's "time" has more value than others.
Not enough! They should. This is why they are where they are.Do you know how many unemployed and/or minimum wage workers I've heard say the phrase "time is money"?
Yes it is. Always. Not much, necessarily, but always.No. No it's not. Not always.
There are games that award small amounts of store points (similar to ESO crowns) through in-game activities. Some games allow subscription time (VIP/premium) to be purchased with these points. Too often, I see people all proud of themselves for earning a free months subscription, after having spent 20 hours grinding points. I love pointing out that instead of 20 hours grinding, they could have spent two hours earning $15 in real cash, and then bought their month of subscription time. But then you always get some people saying, "but I don't have a job". Dude - your time is worth money. Always. You can go out and shovel snow for the money. Or even go collect empty beer cans. There's $7.50 an hour out there for you if you want it - but only if you realize your time is actually worth money.
"Potential" value is a subject that I've never agreed with, as it's only estimating value of what "might" happen. In my opinion, it can only be applied in economics in only select sectors, services, and/or goods.
Potential value of a person's time is, at best, a pseudo-science. Estimating your worth based on what you "could" be doing, versus what you "actually" are doing, is such a ridiculous thing and only serves to placate that individual, making them feel as if they have more worth than they actually do.
For example: I could say something asinine like "An hour of my time is worth $300, because I could have gone to Law school, joined a good firm, and worked my way up until I could bill $300/hr for my time". Yeah...but you didn't. So the actual worth of "1 hour of your time" is not even close.
Let's use your example: "An hour of my time is worth $15 because I could have gone next door and shoveled snow for my neighbor, and that's how much I would have billed." Yeah...but you didn't do that. Instead you sat on your ass watching the Price is Right effectively making the ACTUAL worth of your time ZERO.
Do you see how dumb now "potential value" arguments are? You'd achieve more repeatedly smacking your face into a cinderblock than you would trying to calculate the potential value of your time.Edited by AlMcFly on February 9, 2017 11:52PM1 -
Rex-Umbra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Hate it when people start negative posts for no reason.Xbox GT: Rex Umbrah
GM of IMPERIUM since 2015.0 -
Darth_Apache✭✭✭willlienellson wrote: »Grind-filled games make entertainment feel like work. An investment. And ESO has become the most grind-filled game I've ever played.
I find it to be one of the best because the game doesn't force you into any particular grind, .
/quote]
Cabal in my opinion is the epitome of this example.bulbousb16_ESO wrote: »
This is absolutely true.Some people's "time" has more value than others.
Not enough! They should. This is why they are where they are.Do you know how many unemployed and/or minimum wage workers I've heard say the phrase "time is money"?
Yes it is. Always. Not much, necessarily, but always.No. No it's not. Not always.
There are games that award small amounts of store points (similar to ESO crowns) through in-game activities. Some games allow subscription time (VIP/premium) to be purchased with these points. Too often, I see people all proud of themselves for earning a free months subscription, after having spent 20 hours grinding points. I love pointing out that instead of 20 hours grinding, they could have spent two hours earning $15 in real cash, and then bought their month of subscription time. But then you always get some people saying, "but I don't have a job". Dude - your time is worth money. Always. You can go out and shovel snow for the money. Or even go collect empty beer cans. There's $7.50 an hour out there for you if you want it - but only if you realize your time is actually worth money.
"Potential" value is a subject that I've never agreed with, as it's only estimating value of what "might" happen. In my opinion, it can only be applied in economics in only select sectors, services, and/or goods.
Potential value of a person's time is, at best, a pseudo-science. Estimating your worth based on what you "could" be doing, versus what you "actually" are doing, is such a ridiculous thing and only serves to placate that individual, making them feel as if they have more worth than they actually do.
For example: I could say something asinine like "An hour of my time is worth $300, because I could have gone to Law school, joined a good firm, and worked my way up until I could bill $300/hr for my time". Yeah...but you didn't. So the actual worth of "1 hour of your time" is not even close.
Let's use your example: "An hour of my time is worth $15 because I could have gone next door and shoveled snow for my neighbor, and that's how much I would have billed." Yeah...but you didn't do that. Instead you sat on your ass watching the Price is Right effectively making the ACTUAL worth of your time ZERO.
Do you see how dumb now "potential value" arguments are? You'd achieve more repeatedly smacking your face into a cinderblock than you would trying to calculate the potential value of your time.
Whenever you're doing one thing; you're not doing another.
It's simple. Your use of Pseudo-Science I believe is completely accurate.
Thank you for the reality check lmao."Darth Apache XB1, NA, AD, StamBlade, DW/Bow"
Insurrection - The Eye - The Nightshade Consortium
Aldmeri Dominion0 -
kevlarto_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭I have shelves full of games, over my continuing gaming life I have bought thousands of dollars worth of games, I have never once thought of them as an investment, but my entertainment, some of those games I played many times some of them could not get through them once, mmo's I like to play for years, only value I put on games is my entertainment value when the fun stops I move along, gaming is a hobby to me and just like with any hobby there is good and bad investments
ESO still growing and I hope they keep it going, I may not agree with direction of the game or have much faith in the dev's teams competence when it comes to pvp, but I enjoy the pve and I still pvp some just not as much.Edited by kevlarto_ESO on February 10, 2017 1:05AM0 -
NocturnalGuideMe✭✭✭Anybody worried that American cheese isnt really cheese?
its a blend of cheeses!
..mostly cheddar and monterery..
Dar'Dek Do'Tenurr
Khajiiti Stamina Nightblade
Master Thief, Dark Brotherhood Executioner, Former Dro m'Athra Shade0 -
SydneyGrey✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I love all the people who are taking the O.P.'s use of the word "investment" literally. LOL!0 -
scorpiodog✭✭✭✭✭ChaosWotan wrote: »How many have invested so much time and money on ESO that they start to feel just a tiny bit worried that the devs can no longer deliver what's expected from the best MMOs today?
Investment? I wish I could buy some Zenimax stock, lol
If you think playing a game is and "investment" sorry I don't want to offend you or anything ... so lets just say games come and games go.
I never viewed my time spent playing Donkey Kong or PAC MAN as an "investment" lmao.2 -
NocturnalGuideMe✭✭✭scorpiodog wrote: »ChaosWotan wrote: »How many have invested so much time and money on ESO that they start to feel just a tiny bit worried that the devs can no longer deliver what's expected from the best MMOs today?
Investment? I wish I could buy some Zenimax stock, lol
If you think playing a game is and "investment" sorry I don't want to offend you or anything ... so lets just say games come and games go.
I never viewed my time spent playing Donkey Kong or PAC MAN as an "investment" lmao.
Adam Sandler did.
and look at him nowDar'Dek Do'Tenurr
Khajiiti Stamina Nightblade
Master Thief, Dark Brotherhood Executioner, Former Dro m'Athra Shade1 -
Elsonso✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭bulbousb16_ESO wrote: »
Just because it is an entertainment expense doesn't make it not an investment. Back in the 1980's, we had a thing called BetaMax. Some people invested in those - it didn't work out so well. Some people have invested in 3D or 4K TVs. If these formats don't catch on, then those entertainment dollars may end up being a poor investment.
It is best to think of ESO as a purchase, not an investment. Thinking of it as an investment makes ESO an asset that is expected to become more valuable with time.
How does this work?
You don't subscribe to ESO Plus because you expect to get every DLC from now until eternity as part of the subscription. You buy ESO Plus because, for 1, 3, or 6 months, you expect to get the existing DLC as part of the subscription.
You don't subscribe to ESO Plus because you want to get whatever perk they add to it in 2017. You subscribe because it gives you a 10% boost, costume dyes, and the crafting bag today.
You don't buy Morrowind because you want them to use the money to make more DLC and Chapters. You buy Morrowind because you want Morrowind.
If you want to pay ZOS to support the game, don't do it because of what they are going to do. You do it because of what they have done.
All the time and money you have put into the game over the last X years or months? If ESO is a purchase, that debt is paid. You paid for what you got, ZOS provided what you paid for. If they shut the game done on Monday, you are only out the remainder of a current subscription. All the rest of the money, labor, time, sweat, blood, and tears was bought and paid for and the books are closed.
This is how you spend money on ESO and not get upset when they change things.
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