Homestead is just really sad

fred4 · February 2017

When I saw the YouTube videos of Alcast stacking boxes into the sky

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0GsKyxFJkHM

and of Sypher trapping people in his house

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f46cOuENuTE

I expected that we could get creative with Homestead. We could have fun building stuff, like in Minecraft. Sadly that's far from the truth.

What did we get? Endless grinding and small-minded limits on the number of items in our homes. Far from creative and fun, this game is a version of keeping up with the Jones'.

Sigtric · February 2017

Alcast and Sypher worked within the limits we have now.

The only difference is on PTS you could use free money to buy the needed items + your unwillingness to put in the time required to get them on live.

fred4 · February 2017

[snip]

You are quite right, I am unwilling to grind. I want to play the game for FUN! Building stuff would be FUN! It is a GAME!

I have supported ZOS by spending €360 over the past 18 months on costumes, bank upgrades, and so on. This however feels like their most blatant money grab yet, or maybe it's the underhandedness of promoting this as a free update, but then absolutely gouging on crown store furniture prices that's so appaling.

I bought Autumn's Gate to start with. It has a 100 item limit. Bought with in game gold, the house was empty, except 57 of the 100 item slots were taken for plants and rocks, which shows how quickly you can run up to the limit by just making subtle changes to the garden. Fine, I can add some furniture and stay under the limit, but if wanted to make structural changes with planks, or maybe completely cover the garden with different grass, I would quickly run into the limit.

This kind of small-minded bean-counting reminds me of the licensing agreements of our partner company in the real world. Awful.

[Edited to remove baiting comment.]

Tannus15 · February 2017

Crates can be bought from the furnishing vendor for 100g.

While I agree that the item limits are too small, especially for non ESO+ players removing some items from the garden and doing your renovations will still work out.

You did buy a small house however AND you're not an ESO+ sub, so whinging about not being able to build an entirely new structure is a bit rich.

AlMcFly · February 2017

Oh look. Another "Homestead is not how my imagination thought it would be, obviously garbage update" thread.

fred4 · February 2017

I can only shake my head in disbelief at people defending ZOS here, and the people uprating that first reply. Are we the players, or are we ZOS employees? Housing could have been SO much better than the stupid grindfest that it is. The gameplay could have been about decorating your house, but more so about promoting creative and unexpected gameplay with the housing editor, as Alcast and Sypher have done. Instead, what is the primary gameplay? It is grinding. I realise that is part of MMOs, but what's sad is that this was an opportunity to change that, yet ZOS did not have the courage, vision or conviction to do so.

Yolokin_Swagonborn · February 2017

There were several feedback threads on the PTS that called for easing up the item limits, bringing more QOL fixes into homestead. If ZOS had actually payed the slightest bit of attention to those highly active and highly supported threads, a lot of this disillusionment wouldn't have happened.

But sadly, ZOS chose to ignore a lot of the advice they were given this PTS. And this is the predictable result.

fred4 · February 2017

As I primarily PvP these days, I wasn't particularly looking forward to Homestead other than casually watching some YouTube videos. Disillusionment isn't the exact term that fits for me personally, and Homestead is free after all. Free to be ignored. I am aghast, I suppose, at what Homestead is, despite the obvious work that ZOS have put into it.

akl77 · February 2017

fred4 wrote: »

As I primarily PvP these days, I wasn't particularly looking forward to Homestead other than casually watching some YouTube videos. Disillusionment isn't the exact term that fits for me personally, and Homestead is free after all. Free to be ignored. I am aghast, I suppose, at what Homestead is, despite the obvious work that ZOS have put into it.

If you like PVP, check out "for honour" coming out Tuesday, you'll be amazed at how badly ESO is compared to that.

Mattock_Romulus · February 2017

Lol, good luck stacking 700 boxes at $1.00 per box or 50 hours of grinding per box.

Shimmer · February 2017

Sigtric wrote: »

Alcast and Sypher worked within the limits we have now.

The only difference is on PTS you could use free money to buy the needed items + your unwillingness to put in the time required to get them on live.

I created an entire house using nothing but items that can be purchased in game for gold from Ciceros in cold harbor. No grinding required. 28k OP doesn't take grinding just time and willingness to be creative. Wasn't even that many items.
You could do this in a medium or above.

https://youtu.be/vPT7OcuBbow

AlMcFly · February 2017

Sylance9 wrote: »

Sigtric wrote: »

Alcast and Sypher worked within the limits we have now.

The only difference is on PTS you could use free money to buy the needed items + your unwillingness to put in the time required to get them on live.

I created an entire house using nothing but items that can be purchased in game for gold from Ciceros in cold harbor. No grinding required. 28k OP doesn't take grinding just time and willingness to be creative. Wasn't even that many items.
You could do this in a medium or above.

https://youtu.be/vPT7OcuBbow

This post single-handedly flattens at least 50% of the complain threads in this forum. *High fives*

fred4 · February 2017

Sylance9 wrote: »

I created an entire house using nothing but items that can be purchased in game...

I love it!

Pallmor · February 2017

akl77 wrote: »

fred4 wrote: »

As I primarily PvP these days, I wasn't particularly looking forward to Homestead other than casually watching some YouTube videos. Disillusionment isn't the exact term that fits for me personally, and Homestead is free after all. Free to be ignored. I am aghast, I suppose, at what Homestead is, despite the obvious work that ZOS have put into it.

If you like PVP, check out "for honour" coming out Tuesday, you'll be amazed at how badly ESO is compared to that.

LOL "For Honor" isn't an MMO and doesn't even have player housing of any kind. What's next, you going to tell us how ESO player housing compares to Halo?

Darkstorne · February 2017

Sylance9 wrote: »

Sigtric wrote: »

Alcast and Sypher worked within the limits we have now.

The only difference is on PTS you could use free money to buy the needed items + your unwillingness to put in the time required to get them on live.

I created an entire house using nothing but items that can be purchased in game for gold from Ciceros in cold harbor. No grinding required. 28k OP doesn't take grinding just time and willingness to be creative. Wasn't even that many items.
You could do this in a medium or above.

https://youtu.be/vPT7OcuBbow

WOW.

See now I just want the option to buy a huge plot of land with no existing buildings.

notimetocare · February 2017

akl77 wrote: »

ZOS is not a game lover, but money lover. They don't know make game masterpieces, all they can see is how to get money.
Bethesda, you are a legend at making games, stop letting ZOS corrupt your brand! Fire them for good please!

Bethesda cant fire ZoS you dolt.
Every company ever is a money lover. If you think that a company is not interested in profit, I have some beach front proprty in Arizona I can sell you for cheap.

MakoFore · February 2017

they made too much inaccessible and difficult to jump in and get started. the obstacles to having a very very basic decorated room are so grindingly slow. it brings the games momentum to a halt- and what any game wants- is flow. a fluid levelling , continuation and growth- thats what makes games satisfying. when what u put into it- is what u get out of it.

they should have given us an unlimited base materials and furniture - and then in order to upgrade- decorate with pizazz- make the writs the hurdle to get past. instead i have a room with one chair. one chair that i sit in and stare at a wall. i can't do much else.

they badly screwed this up- i mean we can say they've had months- to study and learn - but the truth is- they ve had 20 years -20 years since the sims came out. 20 years to see what works ,what dosent. and in fact- 10 years to see what works and what didn't with skyrim.

i was looking forward to this - but now with the technical issues, I'm for the first time thinking of giving up this game and taking up for honour. i mean if they can't get this right- what makes anyone think they lll get morrow wind right?
every update since orsinuim can be defined with one word: disappointment.

actually two words- : disappointment - GREED

stevepdodson_ESO888 · February 2017

may i suggest you take a look at what @Elloa is doing with Homestead...yes there can be a gold cost involved, but see how creative she is being with it

https://gaming.youtube.com/watch?v=Sr_jowHQ_Mg

fred4 · February 2017

Darkstorne wrote: »

See now I just want the option to buy a huge plot of land with no existing buildings.

That exact thought crossed my mind as well. And finally a house with windows you can look out of.

Izaki · February 2017

Give it some time. Its going to be fun once the materials and recipes are mainstream items. So basically in around a month it will all be fine.

Rosveen · February 2017

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

akl77 wrote: »

ZOS is not a game lover, but money lover. They don't know make game masterpieces, all they can see is how to get money.
Bethesda, you are a legend at making games, stop letting ZOS corrupt your brand! Fire them for good please!

Bethesda and ZOS are the same company, you do realize this, right? ZOS wasn't "hired" to develop ESO. They're essentially a Bethesda project team.

Neither Bethesda nor ZOS have their own "agenda". Corpororate strategy for all subsidiaries is formulated by the the executive team at Zenimax Media (the parent company of Bethesda and ZOS).

Bethesda Softworks, Bethesda Game Studios and Zenimax Online Studios are three separate companies. Sister companies, but still, the distinction is important. ZOS doesn't share developers with BGS (except some consultants, probably). They actually were hired to develop ESO: that's why the company was created in the first place. ESO is their first and so far only game.

GreenhaloX · February 2017

I did jokingly stated way back about why there is no housing availability in ESO like in Skyrim. Now that homestead is a reality, it is by far the least thing I look forward to, in ESO. Of course, I would participate in the questline involved (much in anything ESO, it is always good to be able to do new quests and stuff), but that is likely as far I would go. Similar as when playing Skyrim, I bought housing and even had a wife, but rarely was at the house (except, from time to time, I would come to see if the wife would put out; j/k, ha ha.) There are so many things to do and get done for the limited amount of times I am able to get into the game, which would be the same for ESO. We'll see.. but for now, I think it is just a waste to drop outrageous amount of gold on housing and furniture and whatever to fill the nooks and crannies that will come with it.

Tabbycat · February 2017

fred4 wrote: »

Sigtric, who are you, a Zenimax shill?

You are quite right, I am unwilling to grind. I want to play the game for FUN! Building stuff would be FUN! It is a GAME!

I have supported ZOS by spending €360 over the past 18 months on costumes, bank upgrades, and so on. This however feels like their most blatant money grab yet, or maybe it's the underhandedness of promoting this as a free update, but then absolutely gouging on crown store furniture prices that's so appaling.

I bought Autumn's Gate to start with. It has a 100 item limit. Bought with in game gold, the house was empty, except 57 of the 100 item slots were taken for plants and rocks, which shows how quickly you can run up to the limit by just making subtle changes to the garden. Fine, I can add some furniture and stay under the limit, but if wanted to make structural changes with planks, or maybe completely cover the garden with different grass, I would quickly run into the limit.

This kind of small-minded bean-counting reminds me of the licensing agreements of our partner company in the real world. Awful.

Even in Fallout 4 you had to grind (unless maybe you console cheated) to get the materials needed to build stuff. After you ran out of deconstructing things with the workbench, you had to get out in the world and hunt down materials. And you never had enough stuff. Even single player games have grind elements to them.

BlackSparrow · February 2017

Playing on the PTS was like Minecraft Creative mode. You had pretty much all the resources you wanted at your fingertips, so the focus was on using those resources to build neat things.

Playing Homestead live is like Minecraft Survival mode. You have to earn every. Single. Block. You can still build everything you can in Creative mode, but it comes through sweat, tears, and long nights spent looking for ore.

I understand why you're frustrated, OP. You were expecting Creative mode, but you got Survival mode instead. Those are two very different games.

But if you take a step back, you can see that, in an MMO like this, it could never be Creative mode. MMOs are a specific breed of game that survive by presenting continuous content to players. They want you coming back every day or week. They want you to find enough continuous content that you subscribe and keep subscribing. They need sustainable, longterm content, so you'll always be reaching for the next carrot, the next sense of accomplishment.

I love Minecraft Creative mode. I have lost entire weekends building my underwater city, my mountain fortress, and my block-by-block rebuilding of Undertale (I'm that much of a geek, I know

). but the thing with Creative mode is that it's super quick to set down a block, and once you build it... you're done. I can spend two days building a castle, step back and go "That looks cool.

" and then never touch it again.

That's pretty much what I did with Housing on the PTS... I spent a few evenings playing around building extra rooms in Ebonheart Chateau with blocks and platforms. Then, once I was happy with what I'd so freely built, I was done with it. If this was how it worked for live, most of the playerbase would have decorated their castles by now, and never touch them again except for occasionally crafting or whacking the PTS dummy. And then the devs would have put all that time into a system that only entertained their players for three days before they were back to demanding more to do.

So instead, ZOS opted for the Survival model. They made the Housing system about building up your stock of recipes and materials. They want you to keep coming back in hopes of finding a neat item piece... of working to build every chair, every cup, every rug. They want this to be a long-term project where you get little bursts of accomplishment fed to you over weeks and weeks, so you're always seeking the next sense of accomplishment.

And it's okay to think they missed the mark on that. I do too. It does feel very grindy right now, and that is a problem with how this was implemented.

But in the long run? I think the biggest problem here is that you were expecting a different game mode than what the devs had in mind all along.

Elloa · February 2017

stevepdodson_ESO888 wrote: »

may i suggest you take a look at what @Elloa is doing with Homestead...yes there can be a gold cost involved, but see how creative she is being with it

https://gaming.youtube.com/watch?v=Sr_jowHQ_Mg

Thank you for the shout out!

I very much agree with @BlackSparrow I've nothing to add to his brillant and well explained point!

@fred4 bought Autumn's Gate to start with. It has a 100 item limit. Bought with in game gold, the house was empty, except 57 of the 100 item slots were taken for plants and rocks, which shows how quickly you can run up to the limit by just making subtle changes to the garden. Fine, I can add some furniture and stay under the limit, but if wanted to make structural changes with planks, or maybe completely cover the garden with different grass, I would quickly run into the limit.

As you can see in the video linked above, me and @phunkeymonkehb16_ESO have build our garden in Autumn's Gate, using 107 item and 137 items. You can have the complete list of the items we used , plus their cost and how to obtain them by visiting this thread >> Here <<
If you are ESO+ you can place 200 items.Which is already enough to create something nice

fred4 · February 2017

Tabbycat wrote: »

Even in Fallout 4 you had to grind (unless maybe you console cheated) to get the materials needed to build stuff. After you ran out of deconstructing things with the workbench, you had to get out in the world and hunt down materials. And you never had enough stuff. Even single player games have grind elements to them.

That's stating a fact, but not making a good argument. I abandoned Dragon Age Inquisition partly for this reason. Grinding their equivalent of skyshards was awful. Some people say this happens in single-player games so the developer can boast about the increased play time.

hmsdragonfly · February 2017

Why don't you just buy furniture from the Housing Vendor?

Lunarhound · February 2017

fred4 wrote: »

When I saw the YouTube videos of Alcast stacking boxes into the sky

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0GsKyxFJkHM

I couldn't watch this without hearing this the whole time:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zR9lsP9sgfw

fred4 · February 2017

Elloa wrote: »

As you can see in the video linked above, me and @phunkeymonkehb16_ESO have build our garden in Autumn's Gate, using 107 item and 137 items.

I had a look at the video earlier. It's beautiful, and yes seeing these efforts has somewhat redeemed Homestead in my eyes. I like yours better, btw

.

@Blacksparrow, I wasn't expecting anything from Homestead, and I haven't played MineCraft or the Sims or anything like that. It's just, when I saw it, I thought: "What a wasted opportunity". That was basically my first reaction.

As for the sustainable long-term content, I understand the argument, but all of that is kind of lost on me. I don't go chasing achievements and I rarely grind dungeons or trials. What keeps me going is working on my builds, and IC. Also just travelling the world and enjoying the scenery, sometimes. I guess Battlegrounds and the new Warden class will be more for me and I enjoyed One Tamriel.

fred4 · February 2017

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

Why don't you just buy furniture from the Housing Vendor?

Are you trolling me? Have you seen the selection?

wolfydog · February 2017

Its a bit grindier then I would have hoped. It does give good long term goals. I wish recipies would drop more.

If the housing system was in place at launch I don't think it would have been as big of a deal, most people be leveling anyways and you'd gather mats as you level.