An Idea for Balancing Eye of the Storm for the Next PTS Update

RinaldoGandolphi · February 2017

@Wrobel

Hi,

I know you want to keep Eye of the Storm powerful, and I agree with you. For its cost, it should be a pretty good ultimate. However, in group play its simply broken. there is no counterplay when 12+ people can all stack them on top of you. Its really the only ultimate that doesn't really have a counter which is why EVERYONE is running around Cyrodiil with it.

I don't want to nerf the damage
I don't want to make it blockable

Infact I want the skill left alone EXCEPT for one thing:

When you activate Eye of the Storm, your movement speed is reduced by 40% for the duration of the Ultimate

This snare can not be purged, it can not be effected by Retreating Manauvers or anything else.

This will "Slow down" those 12+ man groups all running around activating EOTS, but will leave the damage portion and unblockable portion of it untouched.

this will make these 12+ man groups "Vulnerable" as they will not move as fast thus slowing them down.

Right now there is simply zero downsides to these Destro Ultimate trains....slowing them down while they use the Ultimate is a fair compromise. Im fine with it doing the damage it does, but it needs a little drawback to be balanced. Slowing their movement speed makes the most sense to balance it. Even if its only a 30% movement speed reduction that would be OK too.

This makes the skill still powerful without making it totally useless.

Sandman929 · February 2017

Actually, I'd have no complaints if Negate negated it and you couldn't use gap closers while it was active.

LegendaryChef · February 2017

Pretty much all you need to do in order to balance it ^

Minalan · February 2017

Gap closer spam.

Snare bombblades all you want. That's what you'll get.

Sharee · February 2017

Or just make it not stackable, so you can only get affected by a single EOTS at a time.

Joy_Division · February 2017

I hate the idea of attaching artificial conditions to players just because they are using a certain skill. It's lazy, inconsistent, and precisely the thing we criticize ZoS for when they get accused of dumbing down the game. What do I do when I'm not in a zerg of 12 people, the condition that you cliam it then becomes OP. Why do I still have to eat the penalty? If a skill is too strong, then nerf it. Stop applying tangential restrictions that make zero sense so an unbalanced skill wont be so unbalanced.

Sandman929 · February 2017

Joy_Division wrote: »

I hate the idea of attaching artificial conditions to players just because they are using a certain skill. It's lazy, inconsistent, and precisely the thing we criticize ZoS for when they get accused of dumbing down the game. What do I do when I'm not in a zerg of 12 people, the condition that you cliam it then becomes OP. Why do I still have to eat the penalty? If a skill is too strong, then nerf it. Stop applying tangential restrictions that make zero sense so an unbalanced skill wont be so unbalanced.

I agreed at first, but which artificial condition do you take issue with? No gap closing or Negate negating it or 40% snare? I don't favor the 40% personally, but do think that something has to be done about it. I'd rather that something not completely cripple a strong magicka ultimate.

Actually, as long as I wishing for stuff, I wish class ultimates were always made more attractive than non-class ultimates, but I dream.

Satiar · February 2017

Make it a channeled ability IMO.

Sandman929 · February 2017

Satiar wrote: »

Make it a channeled ability IMO.

Soulshine wearers would love that.

KisoValley · February 2017

Stopping gap closing during destro ult is all that needs to be done. Negate shouldn't work on it seeing as it's a ground AOE. Anyone who tries to argue it isn't a ground AOE cause of it's animation is just biased as heck lol. Maybe when Zos introduce flying we can class Eots a flying AOE.

Derra · February 2017

Gapcloser and teleport. Offensively this would change nothing.

usmcjdking · February 2017

Increase EOTS radius by 1 meter and then have a 5m safety spot in the center of it. The answer to Eye of the Storm should be to stand in the center of the storm, much like the namesake. That is appropriate counterplay.

Lucky28 · February 2017

KisoValley wrote: »

Stopping gap closing during destro ult is all that needs to be done. Negate shouldn't work on it seeing as it's a ground AOE. Anyone who tries to argue it isn't a ground AOE cause of it's animation is just biased as heck lol. Maybe when Zos introduce flying we can class Eots a flying AOE.

but it's not a ground based AOE. Ground based AOE's are stationary eye of the storm is the same type of ability as boundless storm/hurricane etc.

and the snare is not a great idea. i mean i spend 99.9% of my time in cyrodiil snared the game doesn't need another snare and it wouldn't change anything anyways.

olsborg · February 2017

Excellent suggestion. No gapclosers/Streak while its active, and no major expedition. That would do it imo. No need to snare them even. Forced to run normal speed would suffice, atleast medium armor would have a dependable "counter"...sprint.

Domander · February 2017

well, if you get hit with 12 of any damage ultimate...there's about the same amount counterplay availability.

At least with EOTS you have to be next to the player casting it, if you are not then it's completely countered. If you are at least 23m away, there's no way to get hit with it, around a corner, another level, escaping/invis, stun or root and get away, etc.

If you're bunched up in a group and get run over by another group.... heh, then your options may be a bit more limited.

Joy_Division · February 2017

Sandman929 wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

I hate the idea of attaching artificial conditions to players just because they are using a certain skill. It's lazy, inconsistent, and precisely the thing we criticize ZoS for when they get accused of dumbing down the game. What do I do when I'm not in a zerg of 12 people, the condition that you cliam it then becomes OP. Why do I still have to eat the penalty? If a skill is too strong, then nerf it. Stop applying tangential restrictions that make zero sense so an unbalanced skill wont be so unbalanced.

I agreed at first, but which artificial condition do you take issue with? No gap closing or Negate negating it or 40% snare? I don't favor the 40% personally, but do think that something has to be done about it. I'd rather that something not completely cripple a strong magicka ultimate.

Actually, as long as I wishing for stuff, I wish class ultimates were always made more attractive than non-class ultimates, but I dream.

I take issue with all artificial conditions. Using a certain skill should not invalidate other actions or impose movement restrictions. As if this game didnt need anymore stupid snares that are unpurgable.. If you feel that something needs to be done, then the problem is the OP ultimate itself. It makes zero sense to have ZoS go through all the trouble of adding code, testing, and devising the ideal conditions to have artifical conditions just to keep an OP ultimate in the game. If they are going to go through that much trouble, just nerf the damn skill and be done with it.

pcar944 · February 2017

that will work except - sorcs streak and NB's lotus fan - with EOtS going

Sugaroverdose · February 2017

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

@Wrobel

Hi,

I know you want to keep Eye of the Storm powerful, and I agree with you. For its cost, it should be a pretty good ultimate. However, in group play its simply broken. there is no counterplay when 12+ people can all stack them on top of you. Its really the only ultimate that doesn't really have a counter which is why EVERYONE is running around Cyrodiil with it.

I don't want to nerf the damage
I don't want to make it blockable

Infact I want the skill left alone EXCEPT for one thing:

When you activate Eye of the Storm, your movement speed is reduced by 40% for the duration of the Ultimate

This snare can not be purged, it can not be effected by Retreating Manauvers or anything else.

This will "Slow down" those 12+ man groups all running around activating EOTS, but will leave the damage portion and unblockable portion of it untouched.

this will make these 12+ man groups "Vulnerable" as they will not move as fast thus slowing them down.

Right now there is simply zero downsides to these Destro Ultimate trains....slowing them down while they use the Ultimate is a fair compromise. Im fine with it doing the damage it does, but it needs a little drawback to be balanced. Slowing their movement speed makes the most sense to balance it. Even if its only a 30% movement speed reduction that would be OK too.

This makes the skill still powerful without making it totally useless.

Did you heart about gap-closers? They are mostly the way for EoTS to reach target.

asneakybanana · February 2017

Just make it scale based on number of targets hit just like prox.

Last patch I was ticking for 13k This patch im ticking for 10-11k. If they made it so that on one player I ticked for 5k or so but if i was hitting 10 players per tick i would scale up to 12.5k or so, which is the same scaling as prox det, I think that would make the skill much more interesting. As it is I hate using the skill on single players and usually try to save it until i have at least 3 people on me. This way it remains an incredibly potent anti zerg measure but it loses it's stupid "I WIN" aspect in 1v1s and 1v2s. Would love to see something like this implemented to the skill to keep the damage similar to before but with these new aoe cap changes.

josh.lackey_ESO · February 2017

Lower the damage. Lower the ultimate cost. It can still be a good ult. Never been a fan of stalling out a fight until you build up a massive ult. Same kind of thing with werewolf. Of course with the super-tank builds people are running, they'd be unkillable without destro ult. It's like trying to pick up a turd by the clean end.

No_True_Scotsman · February 2017

Give EoTS an 8m range.

Nutshotz · February 2017

Or just roll out of the damn way or counter it. I. Sorry as I've stated it before on other eye of the storm threads. It's real easy to counter it. Focus the person casting it, if a grp is using it, negate it and root them or spread out and destro ult them back or my favorite which actually worked really well. You have a 16 man grp vs a 22 man grp. The 22 man grp has 6 destro ult scales, your grp has 2. The 22 manot grp has 5 healers and so do you and the rest are dps and tanks. Well the grp I run with on ep, in this type of scenario with slot bats to counter eye of the storm. You have 8 destro ults on the 22 man grp, your grp has 2 but anyone can slot bats. Sorry for making it a long example

Just spread out, wait for the eye of the storm to be done and use on them or use bats and go right thru them. That dc raid was speechless when we did that.

Minno · February 2017

The high dmg should be only on the morph that sticks to the ground. That effect is removed from negate so there is counter play, as well as easily running from it. It should remain unblockable to add counter play to block tank builds.

The morph that sticks to you should not go past 5k noncrit but have reduced ulti cost to compensate. The mobility advantage is a clear indication that you can turn on the dmg at will and make that hit count. That consistency should be reflected in the initial dmg/dmg over time. I consider this morph to relate to how grothdarr procs.

SneaK · February 2017

The radius should change to 6-7 meters on EotS. Leave the larger radius for the stationary morph.

usmcjdking · February 2017

PeaNutShotz wrote: »

Or just roll out of the damn way or counter it. I. Sorry as I've stated it before on other eye of the storm threads. It's real easy to counter it. Focus the person casting it, if a grp is using it, negate it and root them or spread out and destro ult them back or my favorite which actually worked really well. You have a 16 man grp vs a 22 man grp. The 22 man grp has 6 destro ult scales, your grp has 2. The 22 manot grp has 5 healers and so do you and the rest are dps and tanks. Well the grp I run with on ep, in this type of scenario with slot bats to counter eye of the storm. You have 8 destro ults on the 22 man grp, your grp has 2 but anyone can slot bats. Sorry for making it a long example

Just spread out, wait for the eye of the storm to be done and use on them or use bats and go right thru them. That dc raid was speechless when we did that.

Focus the 5-6 people casting it*

TreeHugger1 · February 2017

So amusing, your suggestion is to make the mobile morph,eye of the storm not mobile by snaring the caster and preventing him from teleporting.
If so,what's the difference between the stationary morph and the "mobile" morph?
ah easy question,the different is the damage reduction and the special effects,therefore I won't have any reason to choose eots...

I think that the best suggestion so far is to prevent stacking eots and to revert the damage nerf.

Sanct16 · February 2017

TreeHugger1 wrote: »

So amusing, your suggestion is to make the mobile morph,eye of the storm not mobile by snaring the caster and preventing him from teleporting.
If so,what's the difference between the stationary morph and the "mobile" morph?
ah easy question,the different is the damage reduction and the special effects,therefore I won't have any reason to choose eots...

I think that the best suggestion so far is to prevent stacking eots and to revert the damage nerf.

That would be completly incosistent with every other ultimate in this game, so no, I don't think it's a good idea whatsoever.

TreeHugger1 · February 2017

Sanct16 wrote: »

TreeHugger1 wrote: »

So amusing, your suggestion is to make the mobile morph,eye of the storm not mobile by snaring the caster and preventing him from teleporting.
If so,what's the difference between the stationary morph and the "mobile" morph?
ah easy question,the different is the damage reduction and the special effects,therefore I won't have any reason to choose eots...

I think that the best suggestion so far is to prevent stacking eots and to revert the damage nerf.

That would be completly incosistent with every other ultimate in this game, so no, I don't think it's a good idea whatsoever.

so what? the problem is smallscales abuse this ult and stack it ,if you will nerf the damage even further it wont be viable for solo player but smallscale will still be able to stack it and wipe big groups.

Zvorgin · February 2017

the key to fixing this ult is to fix the lag in cyrodiil so that you can see when the ult is actually going off and have a chance to get out of the way.

Hektik_V · February 2017

Just make it a DK class ability.

josh.lackey_ESO · February 2017

Sanct16 wrote: »

TreeHugger1 wrote: »

So amusing, your suggestion is to make the mobile morph,eye of the storm not mobile by snaring the caster and preventing him from teleporting.
If so,what's the difference between the stationary morph and the "mobile" morph?
ah easy question,the different is the damage reduction and the special effects,therefore I won't have any reason to choose eots...

I think that the best suggestion so far is to prevent stacking eots and to revert the damage nerf.

That would be completly incosistent with every other ultimate in this game, so no, I don't think it's a good idea whatsoever.

Negate will negate a negate. Also major- and minor-typed buffs/debuffs will not stack. If two nightblades incap you, you still only have one major defile. I am not sure if multiple warhorns will stack. I am not sure if the enemy damage debuff stacks from multiple nova's, or friendly damage reduction from multiple rememberances will stack. Those are just a few examples of some effects from ultimates not stacking, though I can't think of an example where the raw damage doesn't stack.