This is good news. But they still need to add a 2 piece weapon option for magicka builds. Or even a 1 handed option with buffs for casting due to free hand.

The one thing I consider sad about this is that a spellcaster with a dagger feels quite normal.

Wait what? They removed spell damage from dual wield now? I though dual wield still did about 1% more damage than staves after this update.

Turelus wrote: »

everyone was running around with two swords because it was stronger.

In my experience untrue, most end game magicka dps builds are 2 destruction staffs.

Turelus wrote: »

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

they still need to add a 2 piece weapon option for magicka builds. Or even a 1 handed option with buffs for casting due to free hand.

I agree, magicka users need 1 handed options so they can get a 5 piece bonus without sacrificing monster set.

FiskarnasRike wrote: »

MalakithAlamahdi wrote: »

Wait what? They removed spell damage from dual wield now? I though dual wield still did about 1% more damage than staves after this update.

You get some extra from the off hand but it's a big nerf making it very rarely viable now.

That's bad. You also sacrifice a gear piece bonus without it. All the more reason to play a stamina toon for me.

I hope Morrowind adds some new weapon skill lines

Crossbows
Spears
Conjured Weapons
1h and ward.

Just to name a few. Hell, I'd be happy if they'd just split the 3 Destro Staves into their own skill lines.

They should add a few skill lines to help alleviate this.

1h+focus skill tree, with new focus offhand items crafted by enchanting
Has some magic based Melee attacks that infuse your 1h weapon with elemental energy.
Has defense/damage shield spells that utilize the focus as a magic shield

Polearm skill tree, with polearm weapons made via woodworking
A hybrid weapon that uses both stamina and magicka abilities
Has stamina based attacks with the blade of the weapon, functioning similar to 2h
Has magicka based area damage abilities where the weapon is charged with elemental energy and spun to hit targets around you


These would allow for battlemage style characters. The dual stamina/magicka design of polearms would be perfect for battlemage hybrids in heavy armor - polearms are just staves with blades after all

FiskarnasRike wrote: »

For a game that markets itself on letting people play as whatever they want ZOS is really giving less options for diverse builds. I don't really understand the argument of taking away the spell damage, now as a magicka user you can only use 2 different kinds of weapon skill lines while stamina user can choose from 4.

Conjured weapons isn't something new in the elder scrolls series and i'd like to see a sort of spellsword playstyle being supported by either making using sword more viable with giving spelldamage or giving conjured weapons option that would do magic damage instead of physical. Right now the only viable end game builds are pure mage with staffs or pure warrior with traditional weapons.

I think ZOS should encourage different builds like they did with the ice staff changes instead of forcing players into a specific playstyle. Thoughts?

And amazingly at the same time they did this change they introduced other changes to staves which made them a lot different from each other.

there are effectively four weapon types now for magica:
FIRE for single target hammer - likely focusing on the clench/pulse or other morphs in the destro skill line plus other class skills
LIGHTNING for the AOE - likely focusing on the Impluse and Wall spells from the destro skill line as well as other class skills.
ICE: very different animal due to the blocking benefits plus block with magica and maim effects piling on.

Then you have the more oddball resto - healer staff.

Those to me done seem to much more limited than say stamina users have when you look at the two types of offensive options (2H and DW0, one defensive option (S-B) and one oddball (b ow with range and DoT/gank)

Actually seems to me the net result here is they made an effort to give more parity in options between stamina weapon types and magica weapon types and there you go.

As I eye what i will be doing with my eight magica and four stamina characters - i see a lot of options with my magicas as far as weapon choices and how that will have serious impact on any given character's play. They will grow more diverse, not more similar.

I dont think i see a single magica build i have where i said "i think thats still what it needs to be and serious changes are coming." meanwhile, my main two stamina wont be changing i think at all and the other two i just haven't looked at yet.

MalakithAlamahdi wrote: »

Wait what? They removed spell damage from dual wield now? I though dual wield still did about 1% more damage than staves after this update.

This is why you read the patch notes, the staffs got increases in aoe and single target depending on which element between fire and lightning, why doesn't anyone ever want to read the patch notes and act all shocked?

CosmicSoul wrote: »

MalakithAlamahdi wrote: »

Wait what? They removed spell damage from dual wield now? I though dual wield still did about 1% more damage than staves after this update.

This is why you read the patch notes, the staffs got increases in aoe and single target depending on which element between fire and lightning, why doesn't anyone ever want to read the patch notes and act all shocked?

I did read it. Nowhere did it say that dual wield gives NO spell damage anymore. Maybe read the actual discussion before criticising.

Definitely want to see conjured weapons. Could work as a slotted ability that makes your stamina weapon appear conjured, and activating it spends Magicka to do an attack.

Or it could be a special type of weapon that can be crafted. They made ice staves change the blocking to Magicka, they could do the same for conjured weapons.

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

This is false. Dual Wield still gives spell damage. Just like staves give weapon damage.

Masel92 wrote: »

I'm using dual wield and I have just as much dmg as before the update, so it remains viable

MartinDeShade wrote: »

What are you talking about? Dual wield just got a very small 3% nerf. You will still get about 10% more damage than a staff, plus you get an extra slot for set pieces. Now since weaving adds about 10% damage, the only advantage is not needing to weave plus the extra slot for set pieces.

These guys are all correct. The extra 8% single target (fire) or AoE (lightning) damage with staves barely makes up for the loss of spell damage from dual wield, even though they knocked off around 50 spell damage from the off-hand.

And it certainly can't make up for the loss of an extra 5-piece set bonus.

If you have sharpened Mealstrom staff then the extra light/heavy attack damage can definitely overcome the loss of a set bonus, but if you don't dual wield will still get you just as good or better.

Thanks for this. I hated the dw spell power bonus. I mean, it makes zero sense, plus it feels lame to hold 2 swords but not ever using them.